Recent CommentsFirst off, let me say that I'm all for DC increasing shelter space and providing more funding for homeless services. Other factors such as medical care (especially psychiatric care) and helping people stay in their homes should also be the top focus among officials.
Having said that, I do think that this is a regional and national problem that should not be dumped onto DC alone. Cities tend to be centers for homelessness because urban areas traditionally provide easier access to public services, better transportation, and increased employment opportunities (remember, many homeless people are the working poor). Foreclosures, a leading cause of this recent rise in homelessness, are also higher in far-flung exurbs where public services and transportation are much more difficult to obtain. Therefore, it is probably safe to say that many of DC's homeless are from elsewhere. The Homeless Emergency Response Workgroup and like organizations should focus on a regional response to the problem of homelessness. Does Montgomery County have space in emergency shelters? Can Prince George's help provide mental health services? Can Loudon County, with the area's highest foreclosure rates, help provide resources for its residents that suddenly ended up on the streets of DC? Veterans make up 23% of the nation's homeless; can the federal government and the VA do more to help treat and house those who defended this country? I admire the dedication of those who work on behalf of the homeless. However, writing a letter to the mayor and city council of a single city to demand better services is not going to solve this problem. by Adam L in Homelessness rising in DC as shelter budgets fall on Jul 2, 2009 7:02 pm 1+ Jason Haynes. Most Ped bridges=bad. Some = good. I like the River Road crossing of the Capital Crescent Trail, because it means I don't have to slow down or stop for an at-grade crossing. In this case it's convenient for me and as a side benefit is convenient for cars. But that's a bit odd because most people are going directly across on the trail, they aren't walking along looking to cross the street.
by David C in Are people using the Seven Corners pedestrian bridge? on Jul 2, 2009 6:42 pm I live in the area and went to the meeting last night. Let me address some things here.
1. "This all strikes me as a solution looking for a problem." The problem is we have vastly underused public space and a desire for more public space. The plaza is disjointed and has become a place for cars and traffic not for people and we need more places for people. We need more places for children to play. We need more trees and green space. With a metro station there, we need a place that's easy and pleasant for pedestrians to pass through. In other words the problem is that the Eastern Market Metro Plaza sucks. Do you ever use if for anything other than walking across as quickly as possible? Do you ever hang out there? Eat lunch there? Take your kids there? Wouldn't it be better if you could do those things? Wouldn't this be better? And I reject the notion. There's nothing wrong with a $100, but isn't a $1000 better? Wouldn't you rather have a $1000? Think of this as a $1000 and the current plaza as a nickle. 2. "Would it be realistic to open up the central park 8th st segment to buses as well as emergency vehicles? There's a ****load of bus traffic that goes through that area." Yes there are a lot of buses, but more than half are going along Penn and would thus go around the park. Only the 90 buses and the Circulator would pass through which equates to one every 5 minutes or so - not exactly intolerable. 3. Running a bike trail down the center of the median isn't really a good option. I love bike trails but this trail would be very dangerous. Lots of at grade crossings. Cars that block the intersections (waiting for the light to change). It'd be a disaster. Put in a bike lane or a cycletrack and you'd have a better result. Besides the space isn't wasted. It's filled with cherry trees and that's very nice. 4. "he direct route midblock across Pennsylvania is an extremely powerful "desire line" which has been stronger than all plantings so far and would probably continue to be so; that the architects can't accept this and work it into _any_ of their alternatives makes me a little skeptical of the whole enterprise." Both the triptych and central park designs address the desire lines. Central Park moves Penn to the edge, so you can walk straight to the corner of D and 8th without crossing a street. Triptych moves the intersection closer to the Metro Station. Needless to say, I like these options better than the current situation. What I love about the Hill is the people. I'd rather have more space for people and less for cars and traffic (which I love much less). Cost certainly is an issue but I disagree with Mr. Riehle's position that we cannot discuss which is best until we know the costs. As an engineer I'm skeptical of his back of the envelope calculations. Georgetown Waterfront Park cost $15 million to build. I don't see this costing more than that. So do you see Option A costing $3000 and Option C costing $15M? by David C in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 6:15 pm Tom: I've taken that mention out. Sorry if I misinterpreted your comment.
by David Alpert in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 4:59 pm Okay, last comment. I know this is heresy on this blog, but why not just scrap that dingy unused park on the North East side and open it up for commercial development? Toss a couple of stores and restaurants there to make it a destination in and of its
by beeto in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 4:54 pm in hindsight I should have just said no.additional.cars.
by Tom Coumaris in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 4:51 pm egk: Don't touch my Radio Shack and FedEx!! I need my printer ink!
by beeto in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 4:46 pm Option 2 would have to be the best for bus dealing with the buses, with option3 you could have all the metrobuses stopping at two stops one for east/southbound traffic and another for northbound/westbound traffic. The only problems I can see coming from that is the circle would be backed up everything you have more than 2 buses stop at the same time.
Option 3 would be the worst for bus traffic as it would add at least 5 minutes to get around the square, plus push the buses further from the actual station than they should be, it could be alright if the street around the square was clockwise so that buses could pass by and would not be that far from the metrostation. by Kk in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 4:44 pm ... And that is why we have discussions about land use and parking. Those are two of the major things that define a car-dependent place.
by Cavan in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 4:44 pm David- I did not criticize Bethesda raising it's fees to $1 an hour, I replyed that to comment on how nice to was to go to Bethesda and park free. I commented that cars are an addiction to too many and summarized no.more.cars as a simple answer to verbose rationalizing on why we need more auto access in DC. That's a gross miss-summary of my comment.
by Tom Coumaris in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 4:41 pm I look at the bottom two and all I see are more light cycles for the Circulator to have to get through. I live near here and just don't see the need for "traffic calming".
Maybe others see something I don't by beeto in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 4:39 pm Absolutely with David on the desire line issue - people are walking that way for a reason, quit trying to deliberately make their lives inconvenient. I live at 12th and Independence and it is currently a major pain in the ass to get through that intersection to the metro. BTW, I strongly support option C (Central Park) over all the others.
by Sean Robertson in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 4:34 pm To try to motivate the "war on drivers" trope:
At some level, we're all aware that driving a car is an antisocial act. It's like smoking. As long as "everyone" drives, then we can all pretend that driving is OK and facilitate it just as when "everyone" smoked we all pretended that smoking was OK and ashtrays were automatically provided. And as long as driving remains the only practicable way to get to work, to the supermarket, to the drycleaners, etc etc, then "everyone" will continue to drive and we'll all carry on pretending. But start setting out serious alternatives to driving and enable a critical mass of people to not have to drive, and we might then stop the pretense and recognize the essentially selfish nature of car culture, just as when most people stopped smoking we dropped the pretense and banned or drastically limited smoking. And people who like cars, who enjoy indulging in their overuse, see this dynamic and wish to cut it off before it has a chance to gather strength. by jim in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 4:28 pm I live about 100 yards from this place. Is this even necessary? Looks like a solution in search of a problem.
by beeto in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 4:27 pm so I assume we would become the Fairfax/Baltimore statistical metropolitan area as Fairfax with it's 1 million would be the biggest city by far.
by Tom Coumaris in Breakfast links: Attention deficit on Jul 2, 2009 4:19 pm (Also to note, by converting to city status in Virginia, Fairfax would be exposing itself to expensive tort liability for a number of things that counties have immunity from.)
Gaining control over roads through a Byrd Act amendment would seem to solve the problem with a chisel rather than a jackhammer. by Joey in Breakfast links: Attention deficit on Jul 2, 2009 4:13 pm If the primary reason Fairfax wants city status is to control its roads, it could lobby the General Assembly to make the Byrd Act more easily amendable. Arlington and Henrico Counties control their own roads because their highway departments existed prior to the creation of VDOT, and the Byrd Act specifically exempted them from state control.
That being said, the practical (non-legal) difference between cities and counties anywhere in the country these days is nearly meaningless, since cities have long-since abandoned the role of annexing surrounding farms and platting them into streets and blocks. Counties can provide virtually the same services "cities" do. As it is, Arlington County is one of the densest jurisdictions in the country (I think the second-densest in Virginia, after Alexandria City, but I could be mistaken) and remains a "county". by Joey in Breakfast links: Attention deficit on Jul 2, 2009 4:11 pm I'm puzzled by the consistent determination on the part of these planners to force people to take extremely roundabout routes between the station entrance and 8th Street to the north, across Pennsylvania, with "stronger plantings" and all. The direct route midblock across Pennsylvania is an extremely powerful "desire line" which has been stronger than all plantings so far and would probably continue to be so; that the architects can't accept this and work it into _any_ of their alternatives makes me a little skeptical of the whole enterprise, as also does their apparent ignorance of the heavy bus traffic on 8th Street in particular -- okay, they never ride buses, but don't these folks ever even walk around the neighborhood?
by david in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 4:03 pm Perhaps a bit of both, Jazzy. It is a two-pronged problem. However, the current investment and funding mechanisms coming from government encourage this kind of "laziness" you speak of.
Remember, it is in our collective best interest to not reward this laziness with stuff like road widenings and free parking. The end result is a bankrupt government and a ruined environment. Remember, overall goal here is to create a better region. by Cavan in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 3:52 pm Well, I was going to write something like, "to advocate a shift away from driving and things that make it easier for people to drive to public transit WITHOUT AT THE SAME TIME STRONGLY LOBBYING FOR AN INCREASE IN TRANSIT - funding, reliability, accountability, frequency, and now apparently safety - is irresponsible." But what I will instead ask is: "are you saying that people, UNDER THE CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES, are lazy and themselves irresponsible for driving instead of availing themselves of the transit options available to them?"
I guess I am very tired of saying the same thing, so I thought I would ask. It occured to me that maybe you do think that currently transit (including buses) is just fine and that people (drivers) are just not using their existing options. by Jazzy in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 3:33 pm < Amen to what Cavan said. Asking people to interrogate their own assumptions usually yields the bitterest bleating.
by Joel Lawson in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 3:23 pm awesome. I love it that you are making posts about the old mansion neighborhood that used to be north of the White House- and was centered on K street NW going up into DuPont. Most folks are not aware of this once fabulous area in DC- which was the winter home of many of the Newport/Nantucket elite in the USA. The only remanants of this once amazing neighborhood are some of the mansions along Mass Ave that have not been torn down for office cubes.
Keep these posts coming !!They are excellent and the information very good !!! by w in Lost Washington: The McLean House on Jul 2, 2009 3:16 pm w referred to the "unused" streetcar right of way down the median of Pennsylvania Avenue. This right of way is not unused. The Orange and Blue line use it, just slightly below ground. As Alex B pointed out, that's why Pennsylvania Avenue can't be put underground here. It also makes it difficult and expensive to put streetcars back, as the Metro tunnels are fairly shallow.
I like egk's idea of a linear park through the median, but fear for the safety of pedestrians given the horrible movements for vehicular traffic making a left turn from or crossing Pennsylvania Avenue. Unter Den Linden is wider and only has two significant cross streets. The vehicular traffic patterns there are very different. by Stanton Park in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 2:58 pm This War on Drivers nonsense is just the backlash from the dinosaurs. It happens every time there is change. It's usually pretty ugly, just like this time.
Expect the "War on Drivers" mantra to get increasingly silly and screechy until they start crying like Glenn Beck. by Cavan in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 2:54 pm @egk -- Designer Amy Weinstein pointed out that majestic oaks remain part of the boulevard east of 9th Street. None of the beautiful big shade trees to the west survived Metro construction.
by Thomas Riehle in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 2:50 pm I know that often when faced with the decision of walking to a closer store (that doesn't have parking) or driving to one a bit farther (that does have parking), I'll often chose the former for two reasons. Firstly, I'd rather not wasted 15 mins walking somewhere when I can drive there in 5 mins, and secondly if you're out shopping you don't want to have to carry something back on foot.
Hmmm, I'm with Lance on this one. I never walk anywhere if it's possible to drive. Especially when I'm picking up massive quantities of cakes and baked goods to snarf down. I wish you all would let me snarf myself to death with cakes in a motorized wheelchair like a good middle American. by ibc in Breakfast links: 14th, car-centrism, and you on Jul 2, 2009 2:47 pm I totally agree. Transit may not be a good alternative for many people. The answer, then, is not to abandon transit and go back to cars but to improve transit. Tearing down a 15-year-old building next to a Metro station to make way for a parking lot is the most short-sighted idea I've ever heard of. So much for patronizing Cake Love.
by Adam L in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 2:42 pm Eating salty foods is a fact of life, too, but no government agency hands out free pretzels, and when health advocates suggest we try to cut back on sodium, nobody claims they're trying to stamp out salt from the earth.
Clearly you're not familiar with some of this city's more fruitful wingnut-welfare think-tanks. by ibc in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 2:40 pm Good post, David.
by NikolasM in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 2:38 pm I love the suggestion by w that the street car ought to be reinstated, but imho it should be reinstated throughout the city. As for the public square, the current form would be way to large for the scale of the surrounding buildings, more like Red Square or some Stalinist plaza. So while I like #3 in concept, I would vote for a modified option #2. That modification would be to build up the left over spaces at the edge of the oval to give the outdoor room some walls. Then again the row we'd have over traditional versus modernism makes my head spin just thinking about it.
by Thayer-D in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 2:37 pm This whole 'war on cars' thing is basically an analogue of the "war on white men" B.S. that erupts every now and then.
The instant that the first Jew was admitted, clearly a WAR ON WHITE MEN was declared. It's the same entitlement-fueled idiocy at work. Want to reduce speeds on residential streets from 35-40 mph to 20mph? WAR ON DRIVERS!! by ibc in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 2:37 pm BwyondDC sez: Seward, Edward R Murrow and James Monroe Squares ...They all suffer from the exact same problem. And that problem is what, exactly?
by Thomas Riehle in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 2:24 pm To address Tom Veil's comment about burying Penn. Ave beneath the square, it's not possible because of the Metro station. The Metro station isn't deep enough. Even if technically feasible, it would be incredibly expensive.
by Alex B. in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 2:21 pm >I'm not convinced reconnecting is a solution in search of a problem, but crin's comment did get me thinking about the importance of the intersection of 8th & Penn to bus traffic
Agreed. Just because there is a legitimate problem with chopped-up disconnected squares doesn't mean solving the problem isn't complicated. by BeyondDC in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 1:43 pm Hmmm, I don't know. If Foucault's Pendulum taught me anything, it's that those that deny a conspiracy the most, are the very ones behind the conspiracy!!!1!
by Reid in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 1:40 pm Just back from Europe, where a square of this size would almost always contain a raft of outdoor tables from adjoining restaurants, I was surprised last weekend to see how little used the 'square' is, even on a busy Saturday. Underuse of the existing square (particularly where the metro entrance is) is really the problem and none of these plans do much for that: 'The Oval' reduces the usable green space by converting a bunch of it to useless decoration (who will sit in that oval?); 'Central Park' is worse, putting three lanes of Penn Ave. traffic between the green space and pedestrians coming from either Eastern Market or 8th st.
Instead: close the stub of D st. from 7th to Penn Ave to through traffic and annex it to the square (perhaps as a "shared street" ), encourage a transition to restaurant/cafe tenants for the buildings on 700 block (now Fed Ex, Radio Shack, etc.), have them have lots of outdoor seating, plant more trees to make the square itself more pleasant, etc. That and a little road diet for Penn Ave. would give this area much more of a sense of place than any expensive (unlikely?) diversion of the arterial. Also - why not accept that pedestrians want direct routes from where they are to where they want to go and simply add a midblock pedestrian crosswalk over Penn Ave between 7th and 8th (with the signals at 7th and 8th set up to support this). [Of course there really should have been a metro entry on the N. side ...] Regarding Penn Ave itself, does anybody know why the trees on the green median are not nice large shade trees (and for that matter, why the median itself isn't a linear park with a path on it, e.g. unter den linden ). It looks like a highway beauty strip (hm.. that might be the answer). by egk in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 1:35 pm I read this and other blogs so I think all newspapers should be burned and news agencies razed. Blogs are a war on all other news! Or is it just one form in a interwoven web of information?
Well said... a good use of analogy to point out how silly the "war on drivers" argument is. by Nick in Cars: it's not black and white (except for police cruisers) on Jul 2, 2009 1:33 pm I've been out at night around, say, Dupont Circle, and routinely get rejected for cabs just trying to get back to Capitol Hill
That's why you don't tell them where you are going until you are inside the cab. They are required by law to take you where you want to go once you get in. by Bill Rapsberry in Breakfast links: Attention deficit on Jul 2, 2009 1:05 pm What is not mentioned in these plans or in this discussion is what to do with the unutilized streetcar right of way that is in the median on PaAv. In my opinion, there needs to be a new streetcar line placed here- as it would be a lot easier to put one in an existing ROW than to make a new one. It would be a lot more environmentally friendly to have new streetcars than the loud noisy buses- and the city really needs to look into replacing as many bus lines with streetcars as is possible. For those who might not know it- this was the city's very first streetcar line- The old Georgetown Navy Yard line.
However- if the city is not looking to ever put back the streetcars in the historic ROWs-why can't we have a separated , dedicated bicycle way put down the center of the median? It is terrible to waste this land when it could go to a great use to enhance the community. by w in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 1:01 pm If some people want to keep their cheap cabs, that's fine with me. My problem is when a cab won't pick me up on the street, because of where I'm going... or tries to charge something other than the metered rate... or doesn't know how to get where I'm going (dude, it's not a big city compared to London, it shouldn't be that hard -- or buy a damn GPS).
Keeping some less-regulated cabs which can't pick up fares on the street would be OK. But cabs that can pick up fares on the street frequently suck, and ought to be improved, one way or another. by Gavin Baker in Breakfast links: Attention deficit on Jul 2, 2009 12:58 pm BeyondDC: I agree in the sense that as long as these portions remain disconnected, using the leftover park space as park space gets disincentivized, and the park gets neglected, as is currently the case, especially with the northeastern portion of the space in question.
Just for the record, and for the sake of saying something outrageous, I personally don't enjoy Dupont Circle, and feel like, done right, cutting a road through it would make for a more pleasant, walkable area, but that would also necessitate removing the underpass and barriers, and making shorter blocks and wider sidewalks along Connecticut. I love the squares in capitol hill, but neither Stanton, Lincoln, Garfield, or whatever others I can't think of at the moment get as much of their traffic from surrounding retail as the Eastern Market area. That means that the people coming to use that space are more likely to live a ways from there than the people who live near a park mostly surrounded by houses, and thus more likely to need comfortable bus connections. I'm not convinced reconnecting is a solution in search of a problem, but crin's comment did get me thinking about the importance of the intersection of 8th & Penn to bus traffic, and I think it's worth trying to facilitate that if possible in a way that complements improvements to the public space. by Lucre in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 12:39 pm I live just a few blocks north of this area on 8th street, and would love to see something happen with this area. I love going to Eastern Market, but unlike Dupont, there's really no where to go to sit and enjoy the area. Unless you have money to spend at a restaurant, you just have to keep walking. Having a place to read, eat a sandwich, and visit with neighbors would be invaluable.
Right now, this space is terribly misused. I've walked through it a million times and I hardly even know what's on the northeast side of Pennsylvania. There's some sort of sad memorial tree and some unshaded benches over brick I think. It's totally uninviting. by Drew in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 12:29 pm SBJ -- This is very good change, but instead of cutting west from North Capitol where you do it, it needs to go up to Irving so that it can better serve the future development of the south end of the AFRH campus.
by Richard Layman in Imagine a separate Yellow Line on Jul 2, 2009 12:24 pm I should clarify: I mean the northbound 90s stop between Pennsylvania and the northern portion of D.
by Lucre in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 12:19 pm Oh, the problem is that these are important public spaces which should be used as parks for people, but have been chopped to pieces and given over to cars with only the leftovers serving their actual intended purpose.
Imagine cutting a road right through the middle of Dupont Circle. I think that would be a big problem. by BeyondDC in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 12:16 pm Would it be realistic to open up the central park 8th st segment to buses as well as emergency vehicles? There's a ****load of bus traffic that goes through that area, and facilitating it with stops people can get to easily should be a priority for any redesign there. People dash across 8th and Pennsylvania a lot because the 90s stop (located in the middle of a block without any retail or residences, only a dilapidated park) is not where the potential passengers are likely to be.
by Lucre in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 12:15 pm mike -- you are WAAAAYYY off. I was against the other one as well. Plus I live in DC, so it's all the same to me re: MD versus VA. As for Atlanta -- I would rather die a slow painful death than face the prospect of commuting by car in Atlanta. And I'm only exaggerating a bit........
by rg in Gaithersbungle, part 2: Old, tired formulas generate old, disastrous solutions on Jul 2, 2009 12:13 pm Be good to hear from some residents of the area.
by Jazzy in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 12:12 pm 2 and 3 are good. I like 3, but either way.
The bigger question: Why aren't we doing this to Seward, Edward R Murrow and James Monroe Squares too? They all suffer from the exact same problem. by BeyondDC in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 12:09 pm This page is also available as an RSS feed. |
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1. Adding on to the time it takes to turn from 8th st., to Penn, or vice versa is intolerable, and will just add to congestion on side streets.
2. The difference between this space and the waterfront development is that in Georgetown they created a destination. There is a reason to go there. If there was some retail development here, then I'd be all for it.
I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, and I agree that the current layout is not pedestrian friendly, but from a cursory look all I see is more stop & go traffic.
by beeto in Capitol Hill Town Square team presents options on Jul 2, 2009 7:34 pm