Much more likely to happen would be a streetcar or LRT along Route 7.

Similar arguments could be made for Route 1 between Huntington and Fort Belvoir, which IMO would make an excellent Yellow Line extension (doable since Fairfax County and VDOT want to reconstruct Route 1) and give Fairfax County the opportunity to create their own version of Ballston-Rosslyn. A better argument could be made for this over your Yellow Line in that it'd give Fort Belvoir a metro connection which will be very much needed with all the BRAC-related moves to the base.

by Froggie on Oct 16, 2009 1:05 pm  

I can't imagine Falls Church or Old Town allowing you to tunnel. Surface light rail in a dedicated lane or streetcar, maybe.

by Michael Perkins on Oct 16, 2009 1:13 pm  

Its nice to dream.
The Metro system is driven by commuters, which compose the vast majority of ridership. This line has far too many stops to be a viable commuter option.

by Scott on Oct 16, 2009 1:14 pm  

Sure, I'd love it.

But there are several parts of the DC/arlington/alexandria business core that are very underserved by public transit and are much more congested with traffic. This proposal would be low priority compared to the many more useful places to put in new stops.

But I do like that this site thinks big and long term. I would mind seeing more of proposals like this.

by tim on Oct 16, 2009 1:36 pm  

With that many stations your plan makes more sense as a LRT line, although I think this corridor could probably work as either a Metro line OR a LRT line.

Metro would mean fewer stops but more intense development at each stop. Figure about 1 stop per mile. The community would have to be on board with the densification since 10 miles of new heavy rail would be outrageously expensive, and any strong opposition could kill the project's chances.

LRT would fit better into the existing community. It could be part of the circumferential Purple Line. Your plan of half mile stop spacing makes sense in this scenario.

by orulz on Oct 16, 2009 1:37 pm  

LRT just seems to make more sense, not only because of the plans underway, but because this line doesn't go into DC. Also, could be extended over the Wilson Bridge and connect up with an eventual Purple Line extension, creating 75% of a transit Beltway. The Route 7 corridor makes a lot of sense, though.

by darren on Oct 16, 2009 1:39 pm  

This "Gold Line" looks like the Virginia side of the Purple Line. Perhaps it would be good to promote it as such. The Purple Line is something that most Virginians have heard of and are generally receptive towards.

by Cavan on Oct 16, 2009 1:51 pm  

12 miles of tunnel and 13 stations. What would that cost? $5 billion? 10? I think this would be pretty low on my list if I were the transportation czar.

by jcm on Oct 16, 2009 1:51 pm  

this is an excellent idea- there is quite a bit of population density along route 7 and if any other suburban lines are planned- Id say to do this one.

My other idea would be to somehow connect up/ make the Baltimore subway and DC subway systems into one large one.
It is, after all, one Metro region and interdependent- so it makes sense to do this.

by w on Oct 16, 2009 1:56 pm  

Sadly, as necessary as this is, it won't happen. The best we can hope for is light rail along Rt 7. It will be controversial because of the traffic congestion that exists along this corridor, and taking away a lane of traffic would probably be a non-starter. Hopefully the Columbia Pike and H Street streetcars will demonstrate that streetcars can operate well in conjunction with automobile traffic, yet offer up a superior alternative to buses or driving

by SG on Oct 16, 2009 1:57 pm  

@SG I think streetcars are pointless if they have to contend with auto traffic in their lane. I'll stick with Metrorail if the streetcars are just a bus on rail.

by Steve on Oct 16, 2009 2:01 pm  

I've long thought that this is an obvious line. The Rt 7 corridor in Arlington is a somewhat underdeveloped area and quite frankly the shady part of Arlington. A metro line could be used to revitalize it.

I would not make it go to the Alexandria Waterfront, but throw it over the WW bridge to MD. MD could then hook it up to the end of the green line and we wouldn't even need a new color. MD could also extend the other end of the green line to BWI and that way a long but direct connection between would be established between IAD and BWI.

National Harbor would implode on the dual sided knife of this line. On the one hand, they could shuttle their prisoners straight in from IAD, but on the other hand, they could escape easily.

While we're at it, can we extend the blue line along the Fairfax County Parkway/123 via GMU to Vienna/Tyson's/IAD?

Too bad these plans aren't the vision of Catoe, but the dream of a few bloggers.

by Jasper on Oct 16, 2009 2:11 pm  

Which portions of the route from Tysons to King Street could the project get away with using elevated tracks in the median rather than tunneling?

by Paul S on Oct 16, 2009 2:22 pm  

This is a neat idea. People are right that those areas of Arlington and Alexandria aren't very nice and maybe easier transit could help revitalize them.

For me this wouldn't be useful. I live in Clarendon and work in Bethesda, so for it to be advantageous to me it should cross from one of the Falls Churches into MD and connect with Medical Center or Bethesda, then it could connect to the Purple Line. That would aid my commute because then I wouldn't have to travel so far into the city and transfer at Metro Center and incur a higher chance of delays because of increased time in the system.

I think this would be easier to do as a fast moving, dedicated lane, streetcar along the route proposed and into MD. I know people have said giving up a lane on a street wouldn't be good for cars but let's face it, the argument has to be what is best for the larger citizenry and any form of transit can move more people than 1 persons car, no matter how disgustingly large it is.

by James on Oct 16, 2009 2:30 pm  

I've also supported the idea of connecting the orange line with either the blue/yellow in Alexandria. I would terminate the gold line at Tysons. In addition, it would be great to have an additional metro line connect to the gold from the Pentagon along Columbia Pike. I know, I know. Light rail is proposed for this corridor. Unless light rail is separated from traffic, it's as slow as molasses. Trust me...I ride SF MUNI light rail daily. It's a nightmare and turns out it's faster to drive. It's my understanding that mass transit goals are to reduce the number of vehicles on the road, support smart growth around stations and move as many people from Point A to Point B as quickly as possible. There's no reason why the older suburbs can't support in-fill growth to become more urban.

by Mark on Oct 16, 2009 2:38 pm  

ain't gonna fly at VDOT unless you first replace Rt7 with a big honking 8 lane interstate (plus HOT lanes, etc) and then put a Metro in the median - thats the only way VDOT knows how to do these things - the very first you have to do is find a highway median....

by andy on Oct 16, 2009 2:52 pm  

@ andy: The Fairfax County Parkway does have a handy nedian, exactly for that reason.... So, let's extend that blue line!

by Jasper on Oct 16, 2009 3:01 pm  

This is a great idea, but if it happens (and it should) it'd be a LRT - but only because of cost.

You build something like this and not only does it make a great network, but it also would change commuting habits. More TOD job centers means transit gets more viable for work and life.

by цarьchitect on Oct 16, 2009 3:03 pm  

How about some sort of line continuing from Van Ness up Connecticut through Chevy Chase through Kensington into Aspen Hill (or extending the red line south from tenley to Georgetown and then up through the Pallisades?

There are a hundred opportunities for new Metrorail lines, or for some sort of MetroTram system to operate the various light rail projects around the area being discussed. What there isn't, is money and political will to spend it.

Someday, maybe...

by RS on Oct 16, 2009 3:07 pm  

I've got to imagine that in practical terms tunneling is more politically palatable than light rail on route 7. The neighborhoods would go nuts over taking any traffic space away from 7 and you can't really get more right of way in the corridor. What about starting out as a more limited line with just the planned stops in Falls Church and Alexandria, which already are quite dense, along with redevelopment zones where urban level density is allowed in the commercial parts of the route, such as Seven Corners, Bailey's and maybe one or two other areas. That would leave you with 9 or 10 stops that are all in primarily commercial areas. That could be pretty feasible, as car people wouldn't have a strong objection as the stops would only be primarily commercial and no lanes would be taken away. The business owners in the area would love the idea of transit being available. Once you get that it would be easier to add stops along the line, provided you stayed underneath of route 7 the whole way.

by Remy on Oct 16, 2009 3:10 pm  

One other quick idea, what about diverting off of the 7 corridor and adding a stop in at Shirlington. It would be great to have a stop there and it is less that a mile off of your proposed line.

by Remy on Oct 16, 2009 3:20 pm  

First of all, I applaud the idea, I've always thought that the Baileys Crossroads area was severly underserved. Although I must agree with a prior poster....went you hit Oldtown, it appears as though this is a Virginia version of the Purple Line ... perhaps, with the new Wilson Bridge and transit activity on the Maryland side, this might make a nice extension to that .... Plus, if I were looking at extensions, I'd look into extending the Yellow Line north and west of Columbia Hts and tackle the Rock Creek Canyon and possibly connect it with the Red Line in NW.

by coneyraven on Oct 16, 2009 3:24 pm  

Agree with Remy. Seems like Arlington would go balistic if this went in without a diversion to Shirlington.

Further agree with other commentators - if this was going to be a route, it would have to be the purple line. I could not see VA putting another south of DC route in. We will likely get one chance at that - makes a lot more sense along 7 than any route I can forsee for urban development and definitely better than going along 495 the entire way. The real problem seems to be VDOT, Alexandria, and Fairfax. Any chance these three would actually go for this?

by timfry on Oct 16, 2009 3:31 pm  

Superb!

by MW on Oct 16, 2009 3:40 pm  

I have to agree with Remy as well. The current density in Shirlington needs service of some kind if rail is going to be in this corridor at all.

Ironically, if the line were to make that sort of diversion, it should probably terminate at Four Mile Run or Potomac Yard. Which would come pretty close to realizing the W&OD idea in Spencer's post, tho with a pre-metro LRT level of service rather than a commuter rail level of service.

by J.D. Hammond on Oct 16, 2009 4:41 pm  

Ain't gonna happen. Not directly down 7 from King St anyway. More realistic option would go down Duke, which is more dense, and no mansions along the route. Then somehow swing north up Seminary to connect with 7 right at the heartland of the Skyline density. There is a ton of density to each side of Duke. Between King St Metro and Skyline/Bailey's not so much. Shirlington is too far removed to be connected to such a line in any case.

by spookiness on Oct 16, 2009 5:40 pm  

From a human factors standpoint, I foresee folks getting bewildered by gold and yellow -- particularly at or near King St. Of course, that's why Crayola keeps us supplied with plenty of backup colors :)

by Bossi on Oct 16, 2009 5:40 pm  

This is a terrific vision, and something I had not previously considered. I believe that the line would have to be rapid transit, rather than a streetcar, to make it worthwhile. This would open up so much of Fairfax to new development--planners should salivate at this idea. I never visit this area because there's not much draw and it's difficult to get to. A rail line could change that, making new travel patterns possible. Since I work in Ballston, I would certainly appreciate more transit accessibility in the area. The existing corridor, while well-planned, is very linear.

I don't think that it makes sense to try to integrate Baltimore's subway line with the DC Metro system, which needs to focus on serving our region. Intercity travel is the role of commuter rail, and MARC does a fine job. With weekend service, that need would be fulfilled.

I do think that a gold line could be confusing, since we already have yellow. Burnt umber, anyone?

by Matthias on Oct 16, 2009 6:14 pm  

I think this is a great idea. It has problems, particularly in the cities of Falls Church and Alexandria, but it ought to be pursued. It should be heavy rail. One of the essential aspects is that it runs from Dulles. It needs to connect to existing Metro in or around Alexandria. The rest is negotiable.

Let me suggest some negotiating cheapeners.

1. Between 7 Corners and the Alexandria City line run at grade along the route 7 right of way. Route 7 is plenty wide enough, especially if you include the service roads, to give up a couple of lanes to a heavy rail line. The intersections with Carlin Springs Rd and Patrick Henry Dr (and perhaps others; negotiable) would be grade separated. The line could be elevated across 7 Corners itself. I'd reduce the number of stations: Eden Center, 7 Corners, The Mosque, Culmore, Skyline (Columbia Pike Streetcar connection).

2. It's hard to run through Falls Church. It might be best to tunnel from 7 Corners just to East Falls Church. Create a Low East Falls Church station below the existing high East Falls Church station. Run a spur off the Silver line into the low East Falls Church station.

3. Alexandria is a major problem. There is little hope running at grade, even as a streetcar. Between Ivy Hill and the King Street station, route 7 is only three lanes. It's only four or five the rest of Alexandria. A five or six mile tunnel will cost on the order of $3B. A possible route: tunnel under NVCC, median of Beauregard to Seminary, elevated from Seminary and Beauregard into the median of I-395. Elevated over the HOV lanes to Landmark. Tunnel under Landmark, emerge into the median of Van Dorn, then elevated to meet the Blue Line just west of Van Dorn Street. Run along the Blue Line at least to National Airport. Add the Quaker Lane/Bluestone infill station. Stations at Landmark and NVCC.

The Gold Line: airport to airport.

by jim on Oct 16, 2009 6:33 pm  

That proposal is way too many stops for such a short mileage route. The only metro section with that density is Arlington, and that is only a small part of the route. Thirteen stops for a 9.5 mile route between Orange and Yellow? How fast would the train be able to go?

A line connecting the Orange and Yellow should provide an alternative for Orange and Silver commuters to cross into DC using the Yellow Line bridge. Down Rt 7 then east on Columbia Pike would connect to the Pentagon. That should move some Orange/Silver line commuters who would transfer at Rosslyn or L'Enfant to transfer at Falls Church and then ride into town. The mileage is close to equivalent, so even 7 stops between the Pentagon and W. Falls Church should be faster than the Orange to L'Enfant.

by Peter on Oct 16, 2009 6:36 pm  

I'd love to see this with either LRT Along gallows into Tysons or maybe a streetcar in vienna/fairfax.

by Canaan Merchant on Oct 16, 2009 7:00 pm  

Jasper: There is no route 7 corridor in Arlington. This is all in Fairfax County and the cities of Falls Church and Alexandria. I think route 7 may be the Arlington/Alexandria border at one point, but no properties in Arlington front on route 7.

The sad thing is that even if this were to happen, all the stations in Fairfax County would be a waste of money, because county leadership would find a way to screw it up. A Fairfax County version of Ballston-Rosslyn, or anything even close, is laughable. The opportunity's been handed to them on a Silver (Line) platter, and per a recent article here, they've decided to squander it by reducing density and adding highway lanes instead. Fairfax doesn't deserve this.

by Scott on Oct 17, 2009 1:47 am  

Great idea--just gotta say that it really could end at the King Street station though. The distance between King Street Metro station and the waterfront is about 1.2 miles. There are 3 DASH buses that run up and down king, one free trolley. There's a Metrobus that runs down Duke Street. And still it's only just over one mile--it really doesn't need two Metrorail stations.

There are relatively few residences all the way down at the water and unless I'm missing something major, no major office buildings. It's all shopping/bars/restaurants/touristy stuff--exactly the kind of thing people are happy to get to on foot, or get to by one of 5 options (one of which is free).

So--Rt. 7 line? Great. But 3 Old Town stops--completely unnecessary.

by Catherine on Oct 17, 2009 2:38 am  

This would be nice, but it seems like someone traveling from, say, Bailey's, would have an extremely long commute to downtown. First, they'd have to travel up to West Falls Church or down to King Street, then change trains and travel a very long distance from those stops and probably change again if they're going anywhere on the red line or green line.

by Max on Oct 17, 2009 3:44 am  

Scott: the properties that front on the north side of Route 7 between Quaker Ln and Walter Reed Dr, except for a short stretch north of I-395, are all in Arlington.

Max: since the Yellow and Green Lines duplex through downtown, that wouldn't be quite an issue of they went down to King St to transfer. That said, agree it would still be a long commute to downtown...but that's assuming they work downtown to begin with.

by Froggie on Oct 17, 2009 7:15 am  

I agree with Froggie. This line would cost hundreds of millions more than a comparable light rail system and be far less effective at getting people to/from work/retail. Then there's the whole nimby situation; can't see these folks wanting a subway in their backyard. If you're going to throw down an extention, it should be along Route 1 connecting Quantico to Belvoir to Huntington. A Yellow Line with that many stops doesn't make sense, unless it's light rail running along an existing road corridor.

With the Anacostia and H Street light rail lines coming online over the next decade, NoVA needs to think in terms of hooking up with that network, not digging more expensive tunnels and dealing with the inevitable lawsuits from Citizens for Peace, Quiet, Justice, Motherhood, and Apple Pie.

by monkeyrotica on Oct 17, 2009 8:51 am  

Would there be any way to possibly divert either the Blue or Orange Lines away from DC and either up this Gold Line route or up to Dulles? Mind you, I’m just thinking out loud here, haha.

by Zac on Oct 17, 2009 9:12 am  

This should just be light rail where a user would need to transfer in Tysons if they want to go to the airport.

Secondly, wouldn't the transfer/join point in Tyson's be at Tyson's 7 and not at Tyson's east? Tysons 123 and East are not on route 7.

by NikolasM on Oct 17, 2009 11:52 am  

Max: I agree, but that's why it's good that Arlington is putting in a streetcar along Columbia Pike. In fact, this plan would add a lot of value to that service, because now it has end-to-end connectivity to other parts of the region.

by J.D. Hammond on Oct 17, 2009 4:03 pm  

For those suggesting this be done at grade, the opposition both within Old Town and Rosemont and beyond would likely be insurmountable. King is already too narrow for the traffic it carries (and possibly too steep passing the Masonic Memorial). The Old Town merchants who already detest the trolleys and buses that shuttle tourists past their shops to the waterfront would have a cow if automotive access were also impeded.

As for an underground route, I'm dubious about the viability of a low-lying terminus at the waterfront, given the tendency for flooding in that area. Moreover, I wouldn't put the station at King and Washington where there's no room to put a station without possibly disrupting existing historical structures. If anything, I would have it stop at Market Square, but I believe the the existing underground parking structure might also pose problems.

by Craig on Oct 18, 2009 3:56 am  

I didn't get a chance to read through all the comments, but this COULD happen. Connolly and other VA representatives have talked about studying the potential for a Route 7 street car between Tysons Corner and Falls Church and beyond. It makes a lot of sense.

I would like to see one with fewer stops: have the street car run in dedicated lanes as an "express" train and let the buses continue to run as "local" service. I think it could be developed to link up with the purple line: from Tysons, rather than continuing out to Dulles, it should cross the river into Bethesda. Likewise, from King Street, it could cross the river and link up with a future rail on that side.

by Nick on Oct 18, 2009 9:27 am  

Nick: what you described is basically Light Rail...mentioned by several earlier in the thread...

by Froggie on Oct 18, 2009 10:24 am  

As an alternative to King Street, how about continuing over the Wilson Bridge and through Oxon Hill and Suitland Federal Center to the Green Line stop at Suitland?

by b3 on Oct 18, 2009 12:40 pm  

@ Scott: Fairfax doesn't deserve this.

But its citizens do.

BTW: My bad on putting Rt 7 in Arlington. I was totally confused. I've always thought there should be a metro route under Glebe Road, which is not even that far off from Rt 7. In the end, whether it's under Glebe or Rt 7, the goal is the same. Get some interconnection from the western end of the orange line to Alexandria. I whine for the exact same reason about the blue line on the Fairfax County Parkway.

Fairfax County has made huge mistakes in its planning. You can accept that and let the whole metro sprawl further outward. Or you can keep banging on the doors of Fairfax, and make sure they don't fuck up the Silver line, and get them to do more. The House Reps for NOVA understand it. There seem to be a few politicians in the county that get it. Let's push them. If not now, then never, and all growth south of DC will be in Fauquier and Stafford. Loundon has closed the door for much further development.

by Jasper on Oct 19, 2009 9:52 am  

Why not just have a circle line that connects ALL of the metro line ends? So a person could actually travel from Silver Spring to Bethesda. Or Arlington to Rockville.

by ogden on Oct 19, 2009 2:38 pm  

This would be superb if it extended to National Harbor!

by Meredith on Oct 19, 2009 10:38 pm  

Why not run it across the Potomac and then out to the eastern shore? I mean seriously, what a waste of money. Light rail out Columbia Pike and then along the Baileys-Tysons leg of this proposed route is already on the long range planning horizon and makes way more sense from a cost perspective. And what gets people around Seven Corners & Falls Church more value-- a connection to the Pentagon and DC, or a connection to Old Town?

Route 7 in Alexandria is too narrow to accommodate light rail, and tunneling is cost prohibitive. And even if we did have the money, it would be better spent on other projects, like a Blue Line split or actually tunneling through Tysons, let alone any number of worthy non-transportation uses.

by Josh B on Oct 19, 2009 11:14 pm  

@ Josh B
Eastern Shore you kidding right; the moment you mention that to Virginia or Maryland the respons will be are you out your damn mind and thats the nice way of putting it. No matter what it would be lightrail or heavyrail it damn sure will never make it to the eastern shore and if it ever did the point it crosses into St. Marys County it should be called VRE or Marc and not Metrorail.

Metro anything should never reach anywhere close to that including Annapolis or Baltimore they are not apart of the DC metro area and if anything goes that far it better be to the same expectations of Marc or VRE in terms of the railcar design and better not be a damn extension of anything current lines.

by Kk on Oct 19, 2009 11:42 pm  

Yep: light rail or Metrorail simply shouldn't extend to Annapolis or beyond -- I agree with Kk that it's a better fit for higher-capacity rail. A fair share of right-of-way still exists from back when rail actually ran into Annapolis; might make a handy MARC connection someday.

by Bossi on Oct 19, 2009 11:51 pm  

This would make sense if it ran along 395 starting around park center drive stopping in Shirlington and terminating around Pentagon City. Having this run to old town would be unlikely to work. Another option would be to take 7 to Quaker stop around Shirlington and then run down glede and terminate around potomac yards which is one site they are considering for adding a yellow line station.

by Dan on Oct 20, 2009 1:44 am  

I live at what would be "Seven Corners West." While this would be awesome for my numerous trips to Dulles -- and would allow me to fully indulge in the beverage service when I get upgraded on return flights(!), it wouldn't be practical for trips into DC. I could walk to East Falls Church Metro faster than I could take the Gold Line to WFC and transfer to the Orange Line back to EFC.

by Roger on Dec 8, 2009 5:53 pm  

If this were built as a heavy rail Metro line and operated with shared track on the west end of the Silver Line, the frequency of trains from East Falls Church to RFK Stadium-Armory (if Reagan's name is on the airport stop, RFK's should be on this one) would be halved. It's the opposite of separating the Yellow and Green lines, or the Orange and Blue. It might help development and transit access for an obvious corridor Metro doesn't serve, but it would reduce access between Dulles and downtown; which is a driving factor behind the Silver Line in the first place. I also wonder about potential conflicts with a full Purple Line. I'm not sure what the physical length of this corridor is, and I LOVE a stop in Old Town Alex. instead of walking a mile from King St, but I might suggest a light rail line here instead that ends at West Falls Church in the west. It could also use different tracks from there to Dulles, but that might be really expensive.

by Jon Morgan on Aug 1, 2010 5:50 am