Personally, I prefer to see the Farmers Market stay in that spot than another building. Maybe it could be made a 7 day a week market like the one in the Embarcadero's ferry terminal in San Francisco. This part of Dupont is already full of people and the merchants don't seem to be lacking for foot traffic. And there really can be too much of a good thing. Quality is a harder goal to acheive than quantity.

I loved your ideas on putting a park over the submerged part of Conn. Avenue and agree that something should be done about Dupont Circle. (I'd propose following the L'Etoile model here ... i.e., removing all lanes and traffic lights and crosswalks and just letting the traffic 'go at it' while the pedestrians get safe under-the-road-way access to the park ... preferably via one of the new proposed art galleries or similar venues). But I have to disagree with you on this one Michael. I'd rather see this remain open space. Preferably an extended farmers market to a parking lot, but not another high-rent building ...

Which incidentally, I'm not sure you've given thought too ... I.e., When you build in an expensive part of town, you rarely find the rents decreasing with that building, at least short term and mid term .. else the developers wouldn't build there. Instead what you get is just additional high priced building stock ... further excluding the average person.

A better place for more building is in areas where the shops and restaurants aren't already overflowing with pedestrians ... or where there simply aren't many good shops or restaurants because the critical mass (and disposable incomes) isn't there yet for these shops and restaurnats to set up shop.

We've still lots of these areas in many many spots in DC. As I said earlier, IMHO, focusing on quality is more important than focusing on quantity. Bigger is always better.

by Lance on Jun 4, 2011 12:58 pm • link • report

*Bigger is NOT always better.

by Lance on Jun 4, 2011 1:00 pm • link • report

Unless there's a safety issue around lack of lighting in the center of Dupont, then the desire for lights in the fountain honestly seems extremely low-priority to me. Yes, it would be nice, but there are other projects you've identified in this series that could have a much greater impact. And, of course, within the city itself, Dupont is really one of the areas least in need of public or philanthropic dollars.

Sorry to be a party pooper, but this one really seems like it fits at the bottom of the list.

by Mister Goat on Jun 4, 2011 2:37 pm • link • report

Lance,

Of course new construction in high priced areas carries high rents within that building. That's not why you build in order to increase affordable housing, however. You build to increase the overall supply, and the affordability comes from the older and less expensive building stock being able to remain less expensive.

Building new, expensive housing helps prevent the process of filtering which makes existing, affordable housing increase in price:

http://www.austincontrarian.com/austincontrarian/2008/06/filtering.html

When property values rise, low-quality housing "filters up" to the high-quality housing sub-market. The reason is that rising rents encourage landlords to invest more in the property. When property values fall, high-quality housing "filters down" to the low-quality housing sub-market. The reason is that falling rents encourage landlords to invest less in property. The key in either case is that old housing costs more to maintain than new housing.

...

If you want more affordable apartments, build more tip-top apartments. Increasing the supply of high-quality apartments lowers the rent for high-quality apartments, all else being equal. Falling rents for the good units encourage landlords to let the older ones slide into the affordable sub-market.

On the other hand, if you want to raise the rents for older properties, then discourage the construction of new apartments. Restricting supply will raise the rents for high-quality housing, including older, well-maintained properties. Higher rents will encourage landlords to spend more on maintenance and renovation to move their properties from the low-quality sub-market pool to the higher-quality sub-market.

In short, your conclusion is exactly wrong, Lance.

by Alex B. on Jun 4, 2011 3:29 pm • link • report

When I lived near Dupont Circle back in the 1970s that parking lot was for the employees and depositors only of the Dupont Circle Riggs National Bank now PNC bank branch. I have no idea if the property ownership and or lease is still controlled by the bank.

by Sand Box John on Jun 4, 2011 3:50 pm • link • report

The lot is still controlled by the bank.

Back in the early 90s, Riggs proposed consolidating that entire block into a low-rise neobaroque structure by John Blatteau. It would have demolished part of the bank and all of the eclectic townhouses, but filled out the entire block.

I don't know more, but maybe some of the old-timers know more about the controversy surrounding it.

by Neil Flanagan on Jun 4, 2011 4:32 pm • link • report

I hate the graphics with this series of articles. Reminds me to much of lolcats or something.

by Doug on Jun 4, 2011 5:09 pm • link • report

Instead of yet another building, build a garage.
Instead of yet another garage, build something like this:
http://twistedphysics.typepad.com/cocktail_party_physics/images/2007/12/08/volkswagen_autostadt_580x.jpg

by Smoke_Jaguar4 on Jun 4, 2011 5:28 pm • link • report

@Neil: You are correct. Ultimately, the ANC and others prevented it from happening on the grounds of the existing building being historic and the new building as a threat to the scale of that side of Conn Ave, if I recall. I think there also was concern that the storefronts would be replaced by a plain first floor wall. Riggs had a horrible reputation among community activists which just made it easier to fan the flames.

I found most of the series rather tedious, but liked the idea for lighting the fountain. My guess is that what worked for trolleys wouldn't work for buses with the turnaround and that there would be a lot of ADA concerns.

The parking lot is not really a major blight or even all that noticable from the Circle (I was there this afternoon). And it also helps provide scale for the Farmer's Market.

There actually used to be a small cafe at the top of the Q St. Metro--it was along the back of the building there. Fererra's of NYC operated it and it was there around the same time that Starbuck's opened, but with better coffee and much better pastries. It was not quite like the one in Berlin, but probably could have been built out to something impressive. Alas, DCers preferred Starbucks to that little piece of Little Italy. Which reminds me--both the nearby Starbucks and Kramer do provide different variations on a cafe experience nit far from the escalator.

I'm not sure more relatively tall buildings would add to the Circle. As for the covered stairwells, the planter on the P/Mass side provides one model for how to effectively recast that kind of space.

Dupont, itself, is less annoying to traverse than some other circles, like Washington Circle.

The series would have seemed less whiney with more attention to works about Dupont (which is alot--it's easily the most functional and diversely used public space of any circle or small park in DC). The circle's relatively self-contained environment may be part of what makes it work. As for the rest of the area, it contains quite varied elements of residential, institutional, and commercial which are integrated by virtue of their proximity to each other and to the Circle. If you want to use the Ku'dam in Berlin as a counterpoint, you should consider that it's very easy to be in a very different kind of environment by walking short distances from it. The Ki'dam effectively integrates all of that.

by Rich on Jun 4, 2011 7:18 pm • link • report

I think lights in th Dupont Circle is a great idea and a long time in coming. What better way for us to enjoy such a beautiful part of our city? Great suggestion, MV!

by Ted on Jun 4, 2011 8:27 pm • link • report

I like the idea of lighting the fountain! I think a hi-rise would be out of place on that block - I enjoy the idea of making it a daily farmers market or somehow else making it a publicly accessible/useful space. As for crossing the circle could we somehow limit the number of roads that feed into the circle? How about eliminating access from 19th st and Conn Ave?

by grumpy on Jun 4, 2011 9:54 pm • link • report

Keeping a parking lot as a location for a farmer's market is stupid.

The natural location for the market if a building goes up on that lot is at the park over Conn Ave that was wished for in the first part of this series. Even without that, it could move to one/both of the triangle parks at Mass and Q, or to the one at 20th and Q. It could even move to the circle itself.

by David C on Jun 4, 2011 11:17 pm • link • report

@Neil I don't know more, but maybe some of the old-timers know more about the controversy surrounding it.

This is the first I've heard about this. (I wasn't in Dupont back then). But from a cursoury look I can tell you that that proposed design, while appropriate for the grand ceremonial Pennsylvania Ave. and the Federal Triangle, is completely inappropriate for Dupont Circle and its history of (among other styles) hosting grand ornate victorian homes for the most wealthy of the well to do (and I AM talking about the properties immediately on the circle).

by Lance on Jun 5, 2011 1:05 am • link • report

@David C It could even move to the circle itself.

Not really. The Circle is NPS property. They're not going to allow a farmers market on their property ... especially not one that operates everyday.

by Lance on Jun 5, 2011 1:11 am • link • report

BTW, Michael, I forgot to mention that I think your idea for lighting the fountain is visionary. We light our fountains and our monuments in the federal parts of town such as along the mall, but we're not lighting them in the rest of the city ... even though the fountains and monuments worth lighting are all on federal property (precisely because the feds retained important federal sites ...) We need to figure out how to make this happen ...

by Lance on Jun 5, 2011 1:13 am • link • report

and I forgot to mention ... This sure doesn't sound like a high cost proposition.

by Lance on Jun 5, 2011 1:14 am • link • report

Michael, I really like all of your ideas in this series. It's discouraging to read some of the comments from others who cannot see the opportunities we have in our city. Our circles are pretty unique and we should celebrate these by making them even greater. We are the nationals capital and we should make these circles, our parks, and our great streets into world-class destinations that rival other nation's capital cities.

by Scott on Jun 5, 2011 10:49 am • link • report

Alex B +1

by cmc on Jun 5, 2011 11:19 am • link • report

@Alex B On the other hand, if you want to raise the rents for older properties, then discourage the construction of new apartments. Restricting supply will raise the rents for high-quality housing, including older, well-maintained properties. Higher rents will encourage landlords to spend more on maintenance and renovation to move their properties from the low-quality sub-market pool to the higher-quality sub-market.

So, if the objective is to preserve the quality of what you have (i.e. quality over quantity), then the last thing you want to do, as so well described by you, is build those new 'tip top apartments' because that will allow the existing stock to 'slide down' in quality as you say ... because as yoy also say, older housing stock is harder to maintain.

It's all about what your objectives are. Are they to produces stackable quantity (think of the buildings built in Russia during the Soviet era), or is it to protect the qualities of that which make Dupont so special? I'd think even the author of this piece would opt for protecting our existing housing stock vs. letting it slide into mediocre less well maintained housing stock.

It's easy to produce quantity ... not as easy to produce quality.

by Lance on Jun 5, 2011 12:38 pm • link • report

Could you possibly expand "I Wish This Were" to cover other regions of the city and neighboring counties in both Virginia and Maryland?

by Zac on Jun 5, 2011 1:04 pm • link • report

Lance, you will understand if I don't equate your supposition of what NPS policy might be with fact, right? If the only impediment to a FM in the circle is an NPS rule against it that exists only in the imagination of Lance, that is hardly the same as impossible. Especially since the current Administration has shown such strong support for FMs.

by David C on Jun 5, 2011 1:23 pm • link • report

@David, Go try selling something on that federal land. Just let me know ahead of time so that I can video it ... It'd be interesting to see it go viral ... like the one of the people who thought they could just start dancing at the Jefferson Memorial because it was just a little rule standing the way of doing what they wanted to do ...

The NPS doesn't grant exceptions to this. Why do you think the Obama Adminstration had to go to the District to get permission to establish that Thursday's market on Vermont Avenue? Don't you think they would have just set it up on Lafayette Park right in front of the White House if it was such an easy thing to do?

by Lance on Jun 5, 2011 3:14 pm • link • report

That Riggs (Now PNC) was it's "Internationl Branch" serving Embassy Row and was where Imelda Marcos stashed her shoe money.

The front was never much and ws made worse after Rascals moved out. But the redeeming quality is the unique "rears" facing the parking lot. This would be a perfect made-to-order site for an outdoor restaurant (or beer garden).

Put the mid-rise (with decent architecture) on top the Metro entrance and it'll have an idyllic view of this outdoor restaurant or beer garden.

by Tom Coumaris on Jun 5, 2011 3:51 pm • link • report

Lance,

Way to move the goalposts. You asserted that building a new 'luxury' housing ends up "further excluding the average person." I demonstrated that you are wrong, particularly in an area that is in demand, such as Dupont Circle. Not adding to the housing supply causes those seeking nice housing to filter down and take more moderately priced units and turn them into luxury housing.

I don't know how you started by complaining about affordability, then later assert that increasing quality (i.e. increasing rents) is what matters to you.

The fundamental reality is that your dichotomy is a false one - Dupont (and many other areas) can indeed add a great deal of supply without fundamentally altering the character of the neighborhood. The implication that any change would be bad is simply false - it also belies the history of the place, which is built upon a long history of many changes.

by Alex B. on Jun 5, 2011 8:12 pm • link • report

@Alex B., Change is good. But I still don't see how our losing our world famous Farmers' Market venue is a good thing. As Tom pointed out, there are other ways of accomodating growth there if it is needed. I still say little growth is needed in this part of the Dupont Circle neighborhood and would rather see it go to parts of the neighborhood (e.g., 14th and U Streets) that really do need it. The bottom line has to be quality and not quantity. We've a metro area that currently stretches some 100 miles north and south and another 100 miles east and west. There's plenty of room to build. There can be a lot of Dupont Circles in the DC area for a lot of people to enjoy. And we have to recognize that there can be too much of a good thing. And that just building more in areas already popular and already built out to their max isn't the optimal solution.

by Lance on Jun 6, 2011 12:18 am • link • report

I'm sorry, "World Famous"? Where in the world can I go where they've heard of the Dupont Circle FM? I live on Capitol Hill, my wife goes to FMs every weekend and I'd never heard of it. Let's not equate it to Ben's Chili Bowl. And if it is such an icon, I'm sure it can survive a change of venue.

by David C on Jun 6, 2011 12:25 am • link • report

World Famous farmers' market venue? The parking lot?

Thanks, Lance. That's a great way to start my morning.

by Alex B. on Jun 6, 2011 7:40 am • link • report

I'd love to see the fountain lit at night. For one of the city's busiest public spaces, it certainly doesn't seem like too much to ask.

by Rob P on Jun 6, 2011 8:40 am • link • report

Lighting could be greatly improved all around the city.

This weekend, I stopped by the Yards Park at dusk. Walking there from the Metro, there were several trees near the US DOT building that were uplit from below, making for a lovely scene and a very pleasant night time walk. Little things like lighting matter a great deal.

NPS does indeed light the monuments, but that's about it. They don't do a particularly good job in providing even utilitarian lighting in their spaces, yet alone lighting that could enhance a sense of place.

The technology we have now with LEDs and other sources to do lighting with both color and efficiency is too good to pass up, but I fear this town is far too conservative to ever take a chance on these things.

by Alex B. on Jun 6, 2011 9:24 am • link • report

I should note - M.V. has written about the opportunities for better lighting around town before:

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/7618/accent-lighting-can-transform-the-mall/

After walking around the Yards, I took CaBi down to the Mall. I always forget how little lighting there is down there at night. The monuments are lit, but not much else is - even the walking paths.

by Alex B. on Jun 6, 2011 9:26 am • link • report

The farmers market IN the circle would be a terrible idea. The trash, the blocking of public space...forget it.

by beatbox on Jun 6, 2011 10:41 am • link • report

A rooftop café over the Metro entrance could be even more interesting with a glass floor.

by Omar on Jun 6, 2011 12:25 pm • link • report

Wow, I actually never realized that the Dupont Circle fountain wasn't lit until now. Being one of the most beautiful parts of the city, there's no reason why it shouldn't be lit. I can't imagine installing a few underwater lights would cost all that much.

by timbo8 on Jun 6, 2011 12:58 pm • link • report

There was some discussion about adding lights to the fountain when the pool and plaza around it were renovated 5 or 8 years ago, or whatever it was (which took over a year (including 2 full summers) to complete...). As I recall, they (NPS, presumably?) decided that since the fountain was originally designed without lights, they should not go adding any to it now; it would damage the artistic integrity of the original design, or something to that effect. Personally, I think some lighting would really make the circle sparkle at night, altho perhaps not a huge priority.

by d3 on Jun 6, 2011 1:13 pm • link • report

Dupont circle does not need development or more housing. It's doing just fine on it's own. More infill in dense parts of the city is the developer's wet dream, but doesn't actually benefit current residents. Finding reasons to move people out of dupont to other areas of the city like anacostia is a better use of this blog's time. Putting one more postage stamp sized apartment complex in Dupont will do nothing to affect rents. However, moving singles into Anacostia and evening out income levels there will do amazing things for rental prices.

It's amazing how selective the arguments are by people like Alex B.

by ahk on Jun 6, 2011 1:27 pm • link • report

ahk, so you don't believe that their is relationship between supply and demand? Or that putting housing near where people work (such as Dupont as opposed to Anacostia) reduces negative externalities such as traffic, pollution or travel time? Dupont can handle more density, or everything we know about cities is wrong.

by David C on Jun 6, 2011 1:33 pm • link • report

Probably the farmers market could operate on 20th Street from Mass. to not quite R Street (I don't remember the name of that stub street, Hillyer Place, and still be successful.

Omar's idea is interesting.

I've been meaning to blog about how we should start building over Metro entrances, such as this one maybe or the one across from the Watha T. Daniels Library, etc., to get better value from the land, and to cover up the entrances and better protect the elements.

Wrt cafe there, I always had the idea of using that old store entrance on the side (the coffee shop was mentioned) as an entrance to a 2nd floor restaurant that could look over the Circle. Of course, that would require the cooperation of PNC Bank...

by Richard Layman on Jun 6, 2011 3:27 pm • link • report

Great ideas all around, Michæl! I also support the idea of lighting up the fountain at night. I wonder if cost has anything to do with NPS's reluctance to accept the idea. But it's an idea that I can try to raise again with NPS the next time I speak to them about an event...
Michael

by Michael Lipin on Jul 17, 2011 11:05 pm • link • report