"On our way to a workout class this morning we happened across this police cruiser and motorcycle completely blocking the trail along Wiehle Ave at Sunset Hills Rd in Reston. The traffic signal was out and the police were directing traffic."

What a self-entitled little twit! He's on his way to workout class ... and is concerned that the cop doing his critical job is in the way of the recreational path ... Some people really need to grow up. If I'd been the cop, I'd have found a reason to arrest the guy and give him an opportunity to understand there's more in life than just having fun. And I'm saying that as someone who greatly enjoyed biking on our area's recreational trails over the weekend.

by Lance on Jun 20, 2011 8:50 am • link • report

Sounds like the multi-modal and multi-site approach that the USGA used for getting people to the Open worked very well.

by Lou on Jun 20, 2011 9:11 am • link • report

Would it be different if he was going to work? What if he was in a wheelchair instead of a bike? I understand the police lights help everyone know there is an issue up ahead but does he have to block on the transportation arteries? If policemen have to direct traffic shouldn't they also direct the cyclists/pedestrian? If he was going to exercise class but driving in his car and a police car was simply blocking the lane (without also providing a safe way to get around) would that make his complaint more valid?

Police should arrest people who complain?

by Canaan on Jun 20, 2011 9:13 am • link • report

Lance-Does it matter where he's going? Does it? Really? Looks to me like this is the only place a pedestrian or bicyclist could safely be. I count 5 lanes for motor vehicles on one street and 8 lanes on the other, and not a bike lane in sight. Also looks to me like pretty inadequate sidewalks/sidewalks that come to an abrupt end. Take a look at the map. Notice the literally HUNDREDS of parking spaces directly adjacent to this intersection. HUNDREDS Lance...and they are just as accessible to the officer. Is it REALLY unreasonable for an officer to park off the trail? Thank God you AREN'T a police officer, b/c I imagine you WOULD find reason after nonsensical reason to abuse your power and arrest all those baddies trying to go work out, but not driving to the gym to do it.
@David Alpert-Is the "twit" comment going to stay up?

by thump on Jun 20, 2011 9:18 am • link • report

@Lance

So I suppose it would be OK if a cop directing traffic parked across the roadway while he did so?

Either way, he's blocking a pathway for people trying to get from one place to another. There were no doubt people other than the person going to workout class using the path.

by MLD on Jun 20, 2011 9:21 am • link • report

In a situation like this where a police officer is doing something wrong call the police non-emergency number and report it. Arlington PD seems to pay attention. I even got a call back from a district commander apologizing once and the situation never happened again.

by curious george on Jun 20, 2011 9:21 am • link • report

'blocking the recreational trial'?

How hard is it to get off your bike for a sec and walk your bike around the motorbike and the car? Or, for those cyclists who are just a tad bit more skilled ... just peddal around the cops car and bike by riding on the grass.

No, it's a pure sense of entitlement coming out here. The same sense of entitlement which incenses so many.

by Lance on Jun 20, 2011 9:29 am • link • report

Incidentally, @curious george, the cop isn't doing anything 'wrong' here. He's well within his rights to park there or anywhere. Just because you and I aren't entitled to do that, doesn't mean he isn't.

by Lance on Jun 20, 2011 9:31 am • link • report

What exactly makes that trail a "recreational path"? It's a shared use path used for many purposes. The biker in question wasn't even using the path for recreation, he was using it as transportation to get from point A to B without a car.

Furthermore, how does parking on a bike trail (as opposed to the adjacent grassy area) in any way facilitate the cop doing his job?

If I'd been the cop, I'd have found a reason to arrest the guy

That's what they do in communist countries when you complain to the government. This. Is. America.

by Falls Church on Jun 20, 2011 9:42 am • link • report

That Lance called a "recreational trail" speaks volumes about his viewpoint.

Lance, obviously a cyclist could get around. But what if someone in a wheelchair was trying to get past?

by Froggie on Jun 20, 2011 9:44 am • link • report

@Lance-Where do you get off as judge of what someone feels? Entitlement? Again, there are a total of 13 lanes dedicated to motor vehicles at this intersection and HUNDREDS OF PARKING SPACES adjacent to the intersection. Why the hell is is so unreasonable to ask the officer to pull off into the grass or into a space across the street? Your comments continually amaze me.

by thump on Jun 20, 2011 9:44 am • link • report

@Lance Can't tell if trolling, or just stupid.

by Amber on Jun 20, 2011 9:49 am • link • report

Just ignore Lance. There are times when he contributes to the discussion, but this is not one of them.

by Neil Flanagan on Jun 20, 2011 9:49 am • link • report

Suburban growth is a Ponzi scheme...

Damnit! Someone's been plagiarizing my hyperbole!

by oboe on Jun 20, 2011 9:56 am • link • report

"Why should the preferences of the people who've been in an area for a long time trump those of people who are moving in, or those who might come from elsewhere to enjoy them?"

Because in a democracy, your background does not matter. Long-time DC residents should know that.

On many issues, upper-income black residents have more views in common with white residents than their lower-income black counterparts.

What? Race isn't the sole factor determining political views? Income plays a factor too? Glad to see the Post has entered the twentieth century.

by Jasper on Jun 20, 2011 9:56 am • link • report

In other news, some people are slightly disappointed in Mayor Gray. What's up with that?

by Amber on Jun 20, 2011 9:58 am • link • report

@Lance,

Chapeau, notre troll bien-aimée!

Top-drawer stuff, that.

by oboe on Jun 20, 2011 10:00 am • link • report

From DC Divided on Gray:

Higher-income African Americans also are less secure than whites about their own financial well-being...

My guess is that this is because higher-income African Americans are more likely to be in the first generation of upper middle-class. Same would probably apply to whites who are "self-made". If you come from money, you're more likely to feel secure in your wealth.

by oboe on Jun 20, 2011 10:07 am • link • report

"Preserve our lack of community gathering spaces!:..."
...sure, because everybody knows that communities fall apart if you don't have somewhere to slam booze at 4am.

by Jeff on Jun 20, 2011 10:08 am • link • report

Re Margot's Chair, Kreiger also distributed letters to CH residents asking that they oppose the development (or at least some aspects of it). I don't have a copy with me, but if I recall correctly, two of his primary arguments were (i) the bar/coffee house would not cater to locals (I'm not sure why that would be the case) and (ii) don't permit the development it because it would increase property values. Not the most compelling arguments I've ever heard.

Also interesting that in the letter Kreiger circulated to residents he touted the fact that Columbia Heights is the most dense part of the city (or words to that effect). That seems incompatible with "the peace and tranquility" he desires for the neighborhood. If it's peace and tranquility you want, AU Park awaits.

by dcd on Jun 20, 2011 10:11 am • link • report

Sometime, people in DC are going to have to realize that they live in the center of a city (broadly defined) of 6 million people. More 24-hour establishments are a welcome addition.

by Alex B. on Jun 20, 2011 10:11 am • link • report

Just wanted to reiterate Lance's call for you entitled jerks to get off your precious bikes for two seconds, and simple walk around the hard-working officers. After all, there was more than ample space to ride past them on the grass:

...granted, you might get clocked by the side-view mirror of a speeding car as you try to thread the needle, but it's no less than you insufferable, entitled jerks deserve.

by Oboe's Id on Jun 20, 2011 10:13 am • link • report

This letter seems to be part of an emerging NIMBY meme that everyone who goes to a bar or club in the District is a resident of MD or VA.

by Phil on Jun 20, 2011 10:14 am • link • report

I don't know the intersection, but the cops need easy access to their vehicles for various reasons. Perhaps it might have been better to park elsewhere. However wheelchairs on sidewalks are seldom, and trails non-existent. And if one did happen to show up that morning then the cops could have moved their vehicles.

This "think of the cripples" argument is total BS. While my sympathies exist for those that have to deal with hindrances, not everything can be 100% equal. Think of that bastion of urban transportation NYC. Unless you have 2 good legs getting around is next to impossible.

by TGEoA on Jun 20, 2011 10:16 am • link • report

@TGEoA:

While I'm not familiar with the intersection either, there's no need to speculate. From the linked blog post:

If you're familiar with this location, there's a large parking lot adjacent to the trail, to the right of the car. There's also a grassy strip to the right where he could have parked to leave part of the trail passable. His answer was "No!"

Guy parked there because he saw a convenient strip of asphalt, then when passers-by made the quite reasonable request that he open up what is essentially the only sidewalk at that spot.

As is made obvious by looking at the photo, this ain't a "recreational trail", it's the goddamned sidewalk.

by oboe on Jun 20, 2011 10:21 am • link • report

Jeez. You'd think that residents would want a place like Tryst or OpenCity in their neighborhoods. They're both fantastic establishments.

by andrew on Jun 20, 2011 10:42 am • link • report

@oboe; it is income vs. wealth.

Let's say we both make $200,000. We are both "high-income". You parents have 12M in retirement money. You are going at least not worry about taking care of them, and you might inherit enough money to pay for your kids college.

What we need is more taxing of wealth.

While we have a small amount of high income African Americans, I have a feeling it is much smaller amount of truly wealthy ones. A six figure income and a nice house does not mean you are rich. It just means you earn a lot.

by charlie on Jun 20, 2011 10:48 am • link • report

@oboe

The cop made a judgment call as to where to park, probably based upon their need to direct traffic and to cause the least disturbance. I agree Lance's recreation statement is baseless, however it is perfectly reasonable to expect cyclists to dismount in this situation.

If the cops decided to block a lane of traffic, I assume no one here would argue drivers shouldn't just wait until their turn to merge to a different lane.

by TGEoA on Jun 20, 2011 10:51 am • link • report

@TGEoA

You are looking south along Wiehle Avenue at Sunset Hill Road.

by Sand Box John on Jun 20, 2011 11:00 am • link • report

It doesn't matter what anyone here, or the blogger thinks about WHERE the cops should have parked their vehicles, because they can pretty much do what they want too.

That being said, they parked there for probably one of 3 reasons:

1. Officer Safety
2. Job Performance
3. Officer Laziness

Assuming it wasn't #3 (yeah right) then someone was going to be inconvenienced, cars or non-cars. Considering how anti-car GGW is, I'm not surprised this blog was highlighted showing how some poor cyclist had to actually dismount for a few seconds.

by TGEoA on Jun 20, 2011 11:09 am • link • report

The cop made a judgment call as to where to park, probably based upon their need to direct traffic and to cause the least disturbance.

Yes, it was a judgement call but it was bad judgement.

For example, on the George Washington Parkway, there is no shoulder but cops often need to pullover to the side for a variety of reasons. They NEVER stop in a lane, blocking traffic. They ALWAYS pull over onto the grass adjacent to the road. Why can't they apply the same judgement here and pull over to the grass adjacent to the trail?

Try as you might to come up with some logic that justifies the cop's actions, the simplest story is probably the most likely -- the cop wasn't thinking of the impact of parking on the trail when he did that and didn't notice the alternatives. When asked to move his car, it was easier just to say "no". I doubt he was making mental calculations of the cost-benefit of various parking options and decided to park on the trail based on carefully considered analysis.

by Falls Church on Jun 20, 2011 11:19 am • link • report

@charlie:

Let's say we both make $200,000. We are both "high-income". You parents have 12M in retirement money. You are going at least not worry about taking care of them, and you might inherit enough money to pay for your kids college.

I think that's part of it, but I think there's a certain security in having been raised middle-class environment, and having nearly all of your family members also be middle-class.

What we need is more taxing of wealth.

Could not agree more. Estate tax should be in the 90% range for everything over, say, $5 million.

by oboe on Jun 20, 2011 11:34 am • link • report

People should realize by now that liquor protests are simply the way that citizens get involved in DC to get voluntary agreements concerning things like parking, trash pickup, noise, etc. It's a time-consuming cumbersome process for everyone, but it's the DC way. Liquor licenses of any type are almost always approved. (except of course for Ward 3 with it's special status).

The people who are outraged at any protest are more the naive libertarian types who think anyone should get anything they want. I had that attitude until I was 10.

The only real news in liquor licensing in DC is the move to bring nude full body contact in private rooms to DC strip clubs. The existing strip clubs have evidently gotten word that ABRA is not going to clamp down on the new one and I know of a couple existing ones planning the switch. There are strip clubs around Dupont Circle.

My own feeling is that prostitution should be legalized and regulated but while this may seem like a backdoor (!) method to that, it actually ends up with the women working for some pretty unsavory made-men disguised as corporations.

by Tom Coumaris on Jun 20, 2011 11:44 am • link • report

@Tom Coumaris

Except that this place on 11th already has an VA with the ANC.

It seems to me it's the protestors who think they should get everything they want, not those who oppose the protest.

As you note, it's a time-consuming and cumbersome process - and that's exactly the problem! Why can't those issues like parking (a complete red herring btw) and trash pickup and noise be regulated by standard municipal regulations? Why is everything a negotiation?

by Alex B. on Jun 20, 2011 11:59 am • link • report

Until I read the posts here, I was under the impression that the cop blocked a passageway that made it impossible for anyone to detour around. IF the attached photo here represents the actual area, I would have to agree w/Lance's belief that there is an entitlement issue at play here. I think it is most demonstrated in the attack on Lance w/o given what he said simple consideration.

Is it not possible for a cyclist to walk around?

Does the fact that members of a particular race have more in common w/those in their "class" irrespective of race?

This poll reads like one in which several theories were thrown against the wall and subsequently backed up my conveinient calculations.

by HogWash on Jun 20, 2011 12:07 pm • link • report

Persons in wheel chair scooters are very prevalent in NoVa. I see them all the time on sidewalks. BTW, this is very much a sidewalk, not a bike trail.

It is against the law to park on sidewalks in virginia. FFX
82-5-1(a)(1)

Police are allowed to park in traffic lanes, shoulders, and sidewalks only during incident response. I don't believe an ongoing signal issue satisfies that requirement unless the cop on scene was the first responder.

This should have been reported to the non-emergency police number. It probably should still be reported so that proper training can be provided. There are specific ADA requirements that the police are aware of and careful with, and this seems to violate an important one.

So yeah, TGEoA, we should "think of the cripples," and btw, I can't believe you typed that. Just because you don't see persons with disabilities using infrastructure doesn't mean they don't exist.

by CJ on Jun 20, 2011 12:16 pm • link • report

Hogwash,
Certainly the cyclist can always walk around, but if a police car is parked there and its lights aren't flashing (I can't tell or not for the photo) should the cyclists and pedestrians automatically get short shrift? Why is it "entitlement" to complain to a police officer about the way he conducts himself?

by Canaan on Jun 20, 2011 12:17 pm • link • report

Well, yes, it is an entitlement issue. In that trail users are entitled to use the trail. In certain situations it may be that public safety needs trump this entitlement. If, for example there had been an ambulance on the trail because they were trying to aid someone who had been injured, I don't think you'd see anyone complaining. The point is that the need for a police officer to store his car while he directs traffic, when a parking space is "right over there" [as drivers on Rock Creek Parkway like to say of the trail] doesn't quite rise to the level of needing to block the trail.

The police have certain leeway to break the rules, if necessary, when trying to pursue a larger goal. But in this case, it does not appear it was necessary and so yes, trail users are entitled to not have the trail blocked.

Next.

by David C on Jun 20, 2011 12:22 pm • link • report

@HogWash:

Funny, I assumed this nothing but a tempest in a teapot (which it arguably still is) until I saw the photo. There's, what, about 12 inches of clearance between the motorcycle's left handlebar and a stream of highway-speed traffic in the street. It's actually a pretty hazardous condition that's being created, and for no good reason.

As folks have said up-thread: just piss-poor judgement on the part of the cop, exacerbated by stubbornness.

by oboe on Jun 20, 2011 12:26 pm • link • report

...coupled with the fact that you'd probably get tasered by the angry cop if you happened to touch his motorcycle with your bike.

by oboe on Jun 20, 2011 12:28 pm • link • report

@CJ

As you are probably aware police are exempted from many traffic laws while performing their duties. Or have you never seen a cop blow a red light before?

While it is a great tool for improving access for all, the ADA is not a panacea. Someone coming down the trail in a wheelchair having to wait is no different than a driver having to wait for a lane to clear.

Re: Cripple. Thanks to people like you cripple was "softened" to Handicapped. Then people took offense at that and we have such euphemisms like "Handicappable". You think calling someone's disability by a different name is is going to make them feel better about it?

by TGEoA on Jun 20, 2011 12:41 pm • link • report

Yet again the GGW crowd needlessly and childishly goes completely off the reservation for a non-issue.

Why did the cops park there? Probably a mixture of conveneince for them and choosing what was least intrusive to the most number of people.

Wiehle and Sunset are 4 lanes in each direction for a 16 lane intersection. Last traffic counts I could find were 6 years old and had Wiehle carrying 26K vpd at that intersection, Sunset carrying 22K vpd at that intersection.

So what is more important and convenient for the greater good? Anyone?

Hmm...keeping traffic clear in an intersection that sees 48K vehicles per day, or mildly inconveneicing the 8 people who tried to bike thru there while it was blocked.

"OMG! It's SO unfair! Quick, lets snap a photo of the evil car defenders so we can get it to the blogosphere!"

Cue the discussions and justifications that somehow equate one biker to 10K cars in the greater "scheme" of good....

by freely on Jun 20, 2011 12:58 pm • link • report

RE: cop blocking cyclist's pathway. BFD! I am starting to lose faith in GGW's ability to focus on real issues. This barely registers as an incident and really doesn't warrant a write-up.

by snowpeas on Jun 20, 2011 1:02 pm • link • report

@ Alex B- I'm not familiar with the 11th Street application but I can assure you that in DC, especially with ANC approval,the license will be granted after the remaining protesters have at about 60 days to iron out differences. ABRA rules and processes here are time-consuming, I agree. But the burden is much more on residents than businesses. Compare the ease of liquor licensing here with Maryland or Virginia where there's much more burden on the business and few licenses get granted. The reason there are negotiations here is because DC itself has a cart blanche on licenses.

I don't agree that parking is always a red herring in all cases and my one of my bete noires is valet parking at bars. I guess it's a convenience if you're too drunk to find your car or get the key in the ignition to have someone do it for you, but I lose the logic after that.

by Tom Coumaris on Jun 20, 2011 1:06 pm • link • report

RE: cop blocking cyclist's pathway. BFD! I am starting to lose faith in GGW's ability to focus on real issues. This barely registers as an incident and really doesn't warrant a write-up.

To be fair, this story would've probably went completely unremarked upon in the absence of Lance's masterful trolling. I'm beginning to think Alpert's got him working on commission.

by oboe on Jun 20, 2011 1:10 pm • link • report

@snowpeas It's not a write-up per se, since it's listed in the Breakfast Links. What's made it a "write-up" is the fact that some commenters chose to focus on it. If you go back to the top, you'll see that it initially got less text than half the other links.

by Froggie on Jun 20, 2011 1:11 pm • link • report

@oboe:
Hey, don't criticize! I hear Lance is saving the money he earns from the commissions to take a civics class.

by Matt Johnson on Jun 20, 2011 1:13 pm • link • report

@TGEoA, As you undoubtedly noticed (or maybe not), I addressed the issue of police exemption from the parking law in the post you replied to.

re: crippled. There are times when euphemisms are called for, and times when they are not. Your use of the term was actually in a dismissive statement, "Think of the cripples!" That makes you part of the reason that these terms become belittling and pejorative in the first place. Congratulations.

My mother is wheelchair bound. She would be greatly offended by your statement. That's all the litmus test I need.

by CJ on Jun 20, 2011 1:41 pm • link • report

@CJ-That's TGEoA's MO. He belittles and name calls and then is surprised when people call him on it.
@freely-"least intrusive to the most number of people" would have put him in the grass only steps away OR on in the parking lots on any of the other 3 corners which are exactly as close as where he parked.

by thump on Jun 20, 2011 2:31 pm • link • report

It is an entitlement issue. Entitlement of the cop who thinks he can park wherever he wants. Because he's a cop. Sad.

by Jasper on Jun 20, 2011 2:37 pm • link • report

Jazzy asks Lydia DePillis, "Why should the preferences of the people who've just moved in trump those of people who are long-time residents?"

People who are here longer get more involved. It doesn't take much brain power to figure that out. The more roots you put down, the more involved you are. The more you invest in time, taxes, and money, and the more you see the bigger picture and long term.

Freely, you don't get it. When cops (and other government reps) park once, one time, where they're not supposed to, the more it will happen over and over. It's partly about getting into good habits. People's weekend time or free time is precious. I would agree that this may have been a tempest were it not for the existence of a nearby parking lot. At any rate, cops directing traffic! A minor miracle! Now, come on down to K street, not just in the morning!

by Jazzy on Jun 20, 2011 2:41 pm • link • report

It's gross how those in wheelchairs are neglected and ignored when it comes to blocking sidewalks and paths.

by m on Jun 20, 2011 3:46 pm • link • report

People who are here longer get more involved. It doesn't take much brain power to figure that out. The more roots you put down, the more involved you are.

Funny, then, that the long time residents did such a poor job with Columbia Heights, and it only improved when new residents came in, opened businesses, and renovated over the objections of "community activists."

it's the DC way

And it's wrong, ineffective, troublesome for business owners, and puts power in the hands of demagogues and gadflies (see the Queen of Sheba liquor license protest).

by JustMe on Jun 20, 2011 3:49 pm • link • report

@JustMe- I'm not one to defend the licensing DC process. But try opening a bar in Montgomery, Fairfax, or Arlington counties.

Basically why should anyone, resident or not, have any say in whatever any business wants to do ? If we would do away with elected government things would be so much easier. Messy thing democracy is.

by Tom Coumaris on Jun 20, 2011 4:06 pm • link • report

Funny, then, that the long time residents did such a poor job with Columbia Heights, and it only improved when new residents came in, opened businesses, and renovated over the objections of "community activists."

This would unfortunately lead people to believe that the most recent master plan for Columbia Heights was drafted by its new residents and the city had nothing to do w/it. That Target, Best Buy, Bed Bath and Beyond et. al stores only happened because of the "new" residents.

What is also unfortunately does is back up the criticism of many newcomers who feel as if nothing good in DC happened until "they" came along..which isn't true. But it's said much too often.

Kinda like the dubunked (but often quoted myth) that nothing good happened to DCPS before Rhee and Fenty came along.

Not true. But it sounds good nonetheless.

by HogWash on Jun 20, 2011 4:06 pm • link • report

Tom, we should have a fair process unencumbered by an invasion of gadflies with an incentive to basically make stuff up about the impact of a business for the purpose of drawing attention to themselves.

There are rules: and sometimes even if we don't like the outcome, the locals need to accept the process of rules. The "DC way" of dealing with liquor licenses encourages malice and dishonesty on the part of the protestants (once again, see the Queen of Sheba restaurant debacle). Defending it as "the DC way" is the least defensible argument.

by JustMe on Jun 20, 2011 4:14 pm • link • report

@CJ

Police are allowed to park in traffic lanes, shoulders, and sidewalks only during incident response. I don't believe an ongoing signal issue satisfies that requirement unless the cop on scene was the first responder.

The "first responder" assumption is naive. LEO and EMS have a huge range of latitude in performing their duties.

@thumper -- Where do you get off telling people how they feel?

by TGEoA on Jun 20, 2011 4:44 pm • link • report

@JusrMe- When did I defend the "DC way"? It's basically let any bar open that wants to and let the residents have a couple months to get what voluntary rules they can (which are rarely enforced anyway). Again, if you think this couple month delay of the rubberstamp is cumbersome, try Fairfax, Montgomery or Arlington counties where they do have enforced and applied strict rules.

Let alone try opening a full-nude full-body-contact in-private-rooms bar in any of those or even Las Vegas. Only the Palamino is grandfathered in for that in Vegas and Las Vegas keeps trying to close it down. That's the hot topic on the ABRA agenda.

by Tom Coumaris on Jun 20, 2011 5:14 pm • link • report

@ TGEoA - Naive?

Your assumption that police can park where ever they want, whenever they want, is simply factually incorrect. I pointed that out. If I'm naive, you should tell me how. Your assertion isn't very convincing. Before I posted the first time, I looked up "Do police have to obey traffic laws" and then posted the answer. What did you look up when you replied?

The police action in this instance was needlessly obstructionist. If the report is correct that there were three corners with parking available, the the cop should have used the parking and not blocked a sidewalk. If he was a first responder or if this was an ongoing incident, his lights should have been on if he was parked illegally. It really is that simple.

by CJ on Jun 20, 2011 5:52 pm • link • report

@CJ

I never made any assumptions. You did. You are naive thinking that only a first responder can infringe upon parking on the trail as happened here. Heck, even a child understands cops get to "break the law" to do their jobs.

by TGEoA on Jun 20, 2011 6:18 pm • link • report

Cops get to "break the law" when they have to. Not when they feel like it.

by jimble on Jun 20, 2011 6:42 pm • link • report

@TGEoA-Is it really that hard for you to use the correct moniker? It's "thump"...not, as I've pointed out several times to you "thumper". You basically illustrated the point I made earlier. You don't even have enough respect to use people's correct names here. I thought maybe you learned the last time when I called you on it or the time when you, for 3 post in a row, called Geoff Hatchard various versions/abbreviations of his name, even though he specifically told you not to. You got a lot of moxie when it's over the internet tough guy!

by thump on Jun 20, 2011 6:52 pm • link • report

@ TGEoA, jimble: Seriously, is that how you interpret freedom? That cops get to break the rules? Cops don't get to break the rules. Ever. There are exceptions in the rules for cops. But as long as you want to call yourself a place with anything resembling a rule of law, then the law equally applies to everyone. Including cops.

Places were cops don't have to follow the law are called Iran, Syria and North-Korea. Not America.

by Jasper on Jun 21, 2011 12:14 pm • link • report

@Jasper: Maybe I should have made myself clearer. My intent was to disagree with TGEoA's blanket assertion that cops get to "break the law," not to agree. In the limited cases where exceptions to the rules are allowed for police officers, it is because they are forced to do so by emergency circumstances, not because they happen to feel like it and can get away with it. Better?

by jimble on Jun 21, 2011 1:44 pm • link • report

@ jimble: ok.

by Jasper on Jun 21, 2011 3:48 pm • link • report