Unless you have some serious density, don't do it. Let's focus on our sidewalks before we start closing off more streets.

by Thayer-D on Jul 5, 2011 12:51 pm • link • report

There used to be pedestrian malls on F Street east of 7th and G Street in front of the MLK Library. They were removed to improve traffic flow around Verizon Center.

Those malls were dead spaces that attracted nothing but homeless men. DC will have to elevate its game to make this concept worthwhile.

by aces on Jul 5, 2011 12:52 pm • link • report

Alexandria has experimented with closing traffic on King Street on the weekends and turning it into a ped mall, and Silver Spring frequently closes a couple of blocks of Ellesworth Drive.

I'm generally hesitant to embrace the idea. For every successful Charlottesville or Boulder there are 10 failed Raleighs. It takes a careful set of circumstances to make these work.

That said, I think H Street at Gallery Place could work, especially as a transit mall as opposed to a strict pedestrian-only one.

by BeyondDC on Jul 5, 2011 12:52 pm • link • report

Does that population number include the ~20K UVA students, and the enormous spending power they (ahemmm...their parents) have?

by freely on Jul 5, 2011 12:53 pm • link • report

It's worth noting that Charlottesville's downtown mall took a good 20 years to come back from the dead. It's been a long, hard slog. It was put in when pedestrianized main streets were the latest design fad. When I was in grad school down there the early 90s, it looked like many a dying downtown. Many empty storefronts and marginal businesses barely surviving. I've been pleasantly surprised to see it become more vibrant with each trip back to C'ville.

by Paul on Jul 5, 2011 12:57 pm • link • report

Ask Raleigh how their pedestrian mall turned out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fayetteville_Street_(Raleigh)

As several others have said, they sound great on paper -- the reality is usually far different.

by MH on Jul 5, 2011 12:57 pm • link • report

At one time this notion was seen as a way for the downtown areas to compete against the malls opening in the outskirts. But the result was usually a total failure -- once viable and good businesses ruined, and once vital streets (with car traffic) left to drug dealers and homeless peeing in the corners. It actually accelerated the decay of central business districts.

by goldfish on Jul 5, 2011 1:02 pm • link • report

I'll pedestrianize the entire city if it will convince Christian's to open up a shop here.

by andrew on Jul 5, 2011 1:02 pm • link • report

Back in the early 1990s, Charlottesville did not allow cars to cross the Downtown Mall. All those streets were blocked with black metal bollards. The traffic patterns on the surrounding streets were all quite different from the way they are now as well (Water Street was one-way westbound; it's now two-way). Ultimately having those streets blocked caused enough traffic problems, and more lousy driving elsewhere, that they reopened a couple of them. Charlottesville isn't known for having particularly good drivers in the first place (DC drivers are notoriously rude, but quite frankly a lot of Charlottesville drivers are just flat-out stupid), so I'm not really sure the problem is with allowing the traffic to cross so much as it is with lousy drivers. Even though there used to be signs indicating when a street didn't go thru, there were still people who failed to see the signs. That led to problems with people turning around on the narrow streets down there. Ultimately the city threw up their hands and decided that allowing limited automotive traffic across the Downtown Mall was the lesser evil.

If you want to see Charlottesville driver stupidity in action, sometime when classes are in session walk over to the gate on McCormick Road next to Monroe Hall. The gates on McCormick are designed to prevent thru traffic from driving through the high-pedestrian areas of Central Grounds while still allowing the University Transit buses, maintenance vehicles, and cyclists to get through, and there are signs warning drivers of the gates. But some stupid people STILL drive up to the gates and sit there staring as though the thing will magically open. (You need a special tag that sends a signal before the gate will work.)

Turning to DC, IF there were businesses and restaurants and the like along the street--which there aren't--8th Street NW between G and I would be a fine candidate. That road is a disaster as a vehicular thoroughfare anyway. My wife and I always walk up that street after Capitals games on our way to retrieve the car and it always strikes me how stupid it is to have that as a two-way street, with parking garages on each side, a narrow traffic lane, parallel parking on both sides, and a stop sign at each end. It's simply not a street that's capable of handling the traffic unless you get rid of the parallel parking or make it one-way (preferably southbound because G gets less traffic than H, making turns at the stop sign easier). But since 9th Street is already one-way southbound, there's little benefit to having 8th go in the same direction.

Problem is, there are no businesses that front on 8th except for a church and some parking garages, and certainly some form of access to those garages has to be maintained (it's unreasonable to suggest they just be abandoned). The pedestrian mall at Techworld is generally viewed as a failure, mainly because there's nothing there to attract people, and there's no reason to think the rest of 8th Street through there would be otherwise unless some other businesses could open up. (RFD have a back entrance along 8th, but it's never open to the public.)

Staying in the same area, I'd kind of like to see 7th Street NW from G to I either turned into a pedestrian mall or redesigned to limit traffic flow and to eliminate on-street parking so that the sidewalks could be widened. Once again, I frequent that area before Capitals games. I try never to walk up that block AFTER games because the sidewalks are simply too narrow for the volume of people walking there (although I'll walk in the street on the nights when the police block it off). Unlike 8th Street, 7th has a vibrant set of businesses and is a high-traffic destination for pedestrians. The block could also use improved bike parking. Of course, if 7th were shut down only between G and H, the Barnes Dance intersection would have to be adjusted because currently all turns are prohibited there (if you close 7th on one side, it would be a T-intersection and turns would have to be allowed from 7th).

Maybe they could figure out some way to make 7th through there into a bus-only route similar to the 16th Street Mall in Denver. That way pedestrians would have more space, but the transit option wouldn't require wholesale rerouting. I'm fairly certain they'd have to come up with some sort of gated system similar to the road through the UVA Grounds that I mention above because otherwise the bus-only restriction would be widely ignored (just like the bus lane on 9th Street is universally disregarded).

by Rich on Jul 5, 2011 1:06 pm • link • report

1. K Street
2. 1st Street between Capitol and S.Ct/LoC
3. Dupont Circle

by Redline SOS on Jul 5, 2011 1:09 pm • link • report

I agree with the other commentors - any closing of any street to any kind of traffic is fraught with peril. There needs to be a critical mass of people that are practically spilling off the sidewalks for it to really make sense to close lanes, and even then sidewalk widening might be better than wholesale traffic bans.

In addition, pedestrian corridors can wane. Sparks Street in downtown Ottawa is right where the action is: a block from Parliament, surrounded by office buildings, but it lost its cool factor a number of years ago and, last I saw, was just an ugly strip in the middle of a not-terribly-attractive city.

But to answer your question: the Whitehurst Freeway. M is too important of a connection to upper Georgetown to close, but Whitehurst is really just an M Street bypass. Making it into a pedestrian boulevard with connections below and attractive commercial on top strikes me as worth exploring, but it's too crazy and unnecessary to pursue further.

by OctaviusIII on Jul 5, 2011 1:09 pm • link • report

Pedestrian malls don't seem to work in the U.S in most cases.

They do pretty well in Europe and Canada though. Could be the 'crime factor', the climate, fewer enclosed shopping malls, or the culture.

by Ashley on Jul 5, 2011 1:10 pm • link • report

You could have used one this morning in the damned Foggy Bottom Metro Stop, where hundreds of people were stuck on the lower level because not a single escalator was working.

Perhaps some shopping opportunities might have alleviated the stress and danger?

Metro. Neither safe, nor dependable.

by Mike S. on Jul 5, 2011 1:12 pm • link • report

The pedestrian mall that used to exist on F between 7th & 9th was a total failure, as was the one on G between 9th & 10th. Why return to the failed practices of the past?

by Juanita de Talmas on Jul 5, 2011 1:14 pm • link • report

Back in the 1990s, it used to be the case that traffic had to go around the entire area. It wasn't until around 2001 or so that vehicular traffic on two streets was allowed to cross the mall. I know that the bus system uses one of the crossings, but I don't know about the other. In any case, I wish they would exclude vehicular traffic again, because having been a pedestrian going across that section, as well as a driver going through that section, it's not a pleasant thing to deal with.

by Ben Schumin on Jul 5, 2011 1:16 pm • link • report

@Mike S, You could have used one this morning in the damned Foggy Bottom Metro Stop, where hundreds of people were stuck on the lower level because not a single escalator was working.

It isn't a long flight of stairs. IMO, there lots of lazy people in DC.

by HogWash on Jul 5, 2011 1:21 pm • link • report

Another place that has a "pedestrian mall" that works rather well: Colonial Williamsburg. Merchants' Square isn't a true pedestrian mall in the strictest sense, but it operates on many of the same principles. Vehicular traffic is kept to a minimum, the shops front onto the central area, there's quite a bit of restaurant seating...it's a pleasant place.

I don't agree that pedestrian malls CANNOT work in the US. That being said, I'm not sure DC is the place for one. I think they tend to work better in places with a real, strong pedestrian culture. Like Charlottesville and Williamsburg - college towns (with a historic area component, in the case of the latter).

DC can maybe support one in about thirty or forty years, but not yet.

by Ser Amantio di Nicolao on Jul 5, 2011 1:23 pm • link • report

@HogWash:

For me, at any rate, it's the principal of the thing. I don't mind walking per se</>, but I don't appreciate paying through the nose for an unworking escalator in an already-clogged station.

But maybe I'm just grumpy because I spent fifteen extra minutes on the train this morning without explanation.

by Ser Amantio di Nicolao on Jul 5, 2011 1:25 pm • link • report

18th st between Florida and Columbia, obviously.

by m on Jul 5, 2011 1:25 pm • link • report

Pedestrian malls require extremely dense commercial/retail development of the sort that DC residents actively don't want in their city. How is this even a serious idea?

It's possible that more touristed areas by the national mall might support enough pedestrian traffic for this to be possible, but the federal government and National Mall trust wouldn't allow it, and locals wouldn't go there.

by JustMe on Jul 5, 2011 1:26 pm • link • report

I can think of a few places with plenty of foot traffic, especially on weekends (14th between Irving and Park, U between 11th and 14th, 18th between Columbia and Kalorama, Mt. Pleasant Street), but all of those are important bus corridors, and it would be a shame to have to reroute onto residential streets.

by Matt W on Jul 5, 2011 1:28 pm • link • report

To me, this sounds like a solution looking for a problem.

by MDE on Jul 5, 2011 1:28 pm • link • report

I agree with Rich's suggestion: 7th right outside the Verizon center. It's bustling enough, and always lacking sufficient pedestrian facilities.

I come from a town - Iowa City - which I can't imagine without its pedestrian mall, so I'm partial to them; they seem to work well in college towns: the Charlottesville one is another good example. But I have been to towns where it was clear that pedestrian malls have been disasters as well. I think it's certainly worth looking into in places where pedestrian density is very high to the point of overspilling sidewalks that aren't outrageously tiny, and I can't think of a better example than 7th between G & I NW.

I also like Rich's suggestion to allow bus service. I don't necessarily think that gates / bollards would be necessary, if the space were clearly visually and tactilely (?) identified as pedestrian space ("Do Not Enter, $Eleventy-Bajillion Fine" signs would help too) perhaps with pavers and a curb that was elevated enough that it could be driven over, but only very intentionally.

by Lucre on Jul 5, 2011 1:39 pm • link • report

I think the two best locations for a pedestrian mall would be underground:
1) The proposed Gallery Place - Metro Center tunnel
2) The proposed Farragut North - Farragut West tunnel

by tom veil on Jul 5, 2011 1:39 pm • link • report

I agree that we shouldn't do it, unless it's obvious. I like the idea of closing off areas during certain periods of time, better.

I think Half St. near Nationals Park could be a good temporary plaza for events and City Center DC's pedestrian plaza are two areas that are the most promising. Not to mention, there will be more waterfront developments taking place at some point that will be good public spaces, even if they're not closed off to vehicular traffic.

by Vik on Jul 5, 2011 1:40 pm • link • report

At this point let's focus on making our sidewalks wider and our traffic calmer. I also really like the idea of <20 wait times to cross streets (or even < 30 sec).

by nowisthetime on Jul 5, 2011 1:41 pm • link • report

Funny, I wrote about why pedestrian malls don't work on here a few months ago. I really like the malls in Charlottesville and Boulder, along with Third Street Promenade in Santa Monica. But each of those places have special circumstances (not the least of which Charlottesville's and Boulder's substantial student populations, which usually don't drive) that make them successful. Like many of the other commenters, I'm not sure if there are places in DC that have enough people, or are such a compelling destination that visitors would come regardless of how hard it was to get there, to be good pedestrian malls.

I'd rather have a city (and a region) of good sidewalks, where every street could welcome pedestrians, than one with a great pedestrian mall and a whole mess of pedestrian-unfriendly places.

by dan reed! on Jul 5, 2011 1:46 pm • link • report

I went to UVA in the 2000s when the mall sprang back to life. Its current vitality hinges on a couple of other successes that have not yet been mentioned:

1) The Charlottesville Trolley connects Downtown to UVA. It's free and well branded, so everyone knows where it goes. It even has real time arrival now! The trolley uses one of the vehicular cut thrus and is very convenient.

2) Trees. The original mall designers chose native oaks rather than awful suburban bradford pears. The buildings on the mall are mostly 3-4 stories, so the now 30+ year old tree canopy fully envelops the street space and creates a distinct microclimate on the mall. This bodes well for outdoor dining and attracting people.

3) UVA. The mall isn't adjacent to UVA (like the Boulder pedestrian mall and UC Boulder), so it's not a direct student student supported pedestrian mall. That said, downtown does benefit from the educational and cultural spinoff effects of being a university town. It locates these amenities well, while maintaining a discrete separation from the university.

And as a random note, there is actually a fire lane in the cville pedestrian mall. It's very well masked but it's also the reason your natural walking path (and the trees) vary from block to block.

by Andrew D on Jul 5, 2011 1:48 pm • link • report

No mention of Ithaca? It works pretty well there, and not just because of a student population (it's a pretty far walk to both colleges actually).

by Tim on Jul 5, 2011 1:49 pm • link • report

Where's Lance to tell us how pedestrian malls are a 19th century relic and not a sign of modern prosperity, and in any case that DC is a place with a more small scale feel with unique needs and the original L'Enfant plan didn't call for busy pedestrian mall areas that would not properly serve as local retail as they were intended?

Not that I think a pedestrian mall in DC is viable or anything-- I just want to make sure we have the full spectrum of arguments that we expect, here.

by JustMe on Jul 5, 2011 1:59 pm • link • report

How about the idea of temp. pedestrian boulevards? Such as Half Street and N Street by Nats Park on gamedays and 7th Street (and G Street) around Verizon when there's a concert or game at that arena?

I would love to see 7th turn into a type of Ramblas from Barcelona between Penn and Mass (and I think it was even in one proposal during the Mt. Vernon Square Redesign proposal).

Just curious - why is so difficult or has been fraught with so many failures? We're too reliant on cars and traffic becomes a nightmare? The stores don't pan out and people don't use it? What's the main reason(s) for them *failing* in the US?

by Shipsa01 on Jul 5, 2011 1:59 pm • link • report

I think Charlottesville/Boulder/Ithaca are the wrong model for a pedestrian mall in DC. Those are generally artifacts of the small town pedestrian mall craze of the 70s that had very mixed results and wasn't really implemented in big cities. The more relevant model for DC would be The Grove in LA.

That said, temporary street closures for street markets, fairs, etc. like they have in NYC might be better for DC. For example, closing some of the streets around the Dupont farmers market in the summer would be a good idea because there's not enough space.

@ tom veil -- an underground pedestrian mall sounds too much like Crystal City -- major fail. Maybe you had a different model in mind?

by Falls Church on Jul 5, 2011 2:04 pm • link • report

Rather than create no-car zones, I'd rather narrow streets and widen sidewalks, most urgently on U St. (And this seems to be coming to 18th St in Adams Morgan.) The best spot for a ped zone is that alley behind SunTrust Plaza in Adams Morgan, though it would require major work to find a way to get retail to face it.

And note we already have Bethesda Lane (http://flic.kr/p/7jm3n6), though that's cheating because it was created by a single developer. And then there's Cady's Alley, which actually does allow cars to (slowly) drive through.

by M.V. Jantzen on Jul 5, 2011 2:09 pm • link • report

I agree with Falls Church: Charlottesville/Boulder, etc. aren't great models, although I'll throw in an even more relevant model for DC in Faneuil Hall.

It could work, but it'd have to be on a bigger scale to become a destination in itself.

I'd almost say 18th st in Adams Morgen and redirect buses to 19th st. Then, I'd block all traffic on 19th st except buses.

by poplicola on Jul 5, 2011 2:15 pm • link • report

Just curious - why is so difficult or has been fraught with so many failures? We're too reliant on cars and traffic becomes a nightmare? The stores don't pan out and people don't use it? What's the main reason(s) for them *failing* in the US?

I think (and this is just speculation) that one reason is that many efforts at creating pedestrian malls are well-intentioned but misguided in that the mall is set up in a place to which planners wish to lure pedestrians but perhaps without thought as to (a) why pedestrians would want to go there and (b) how they are to get there.

That's one reason I suggested that 7th Street near the Verizon Center might work well. It's already an area with high pedestrian traffic and with a lot of destinations to which people will want to walk, especially people who are going to a restaurant and then heading to a game or a concert. There are ample ways to get there via whichever mode of transport you prefer (plenty of garages; Metrorail stop with three exits in the area; I presume bus stops, though I'm not familiar with the bus lines; etc.).

But I've seen other pedestrian malls where the planners designated the area for that purpose but where there was little reason to go there. The Fayetteville Street Mall in Raleigh is a good example. As Andrew D notes, the Downtown Mall in Charlottesville was once another--there were SOME successful businesses there, but for many years there was nothing that made it into a "destination," and it was a place to which people thought you had to drive (while it's not a long walk from UVA, many people mistakenly THINK it's a long way). The trolley he mentions did not exist when I was a student there (1991 to 1995) and we seldom had reason to go downtown except when the IGA grocery store had a sale on beer.

All of which is a long way of saying, I suspect that with pedestrian malls the old saying "if you build it, they will come" may be backwards. With a pedestrian mall I highly suspect that "if they come, then you build it" might be a more realistic maxim. I think pedestrian traffic is not as easily funneled to a desired location, at least not in an urban setting, as automobile traffic might be. Pedestrians can rather easily go where they like for the most part in a way that drivers cannot (for example, it's easy for a pedestrian to walk across the Ellipse, but you can't drive there unless you have a parking permit).

Ser Amantio di Nicolao mentioned Colonial Williamsburg, where DOG Street is a pedestrian thoroughfare. To me that's a special circumstance because it was done as a part of the development of the CW area as a tourist attraction, which itself was a very carefully planned development of the overall area as a "destination" unto itself, of which DOG Street's pedestrian design was but one part.

Put differently, if you want to set up a pedestrian mall in an area that is not already a pedestrian destination, you have to provide a pretty compelling reason for people to want to walk there, and I think that's often been overlooked.

by Rich on Jul 5, 2011 2:16 pm • link • report

It'd be worth the expirement to close off 8th NW between I and G and then G and I between 9th and 7th - creating a large I shaped mall. It'd really take hold if there were concernts in the summer and a farmers market.

The obvious choice though is for the redevelopment of Walter Reed. Create something really great the puts people not cars first.

by Andy(2) on Jul 5, 2011 2:17 pm • link • report

Boulder, CO's Pearl Street Mall is another example of a highly successful downtown pedestrian mall - having been to both, I can say that it's certainly more dynamic than Charlottesville's. The city seems to encourage street performances and other kinds of programming on the mall, which might contribute to its success.

by Phil on Jul 5, 2011 2:20 pm • link • report

The obvious choice though is for the redevelopment of Walter Reed. Create something really great the puts people not cars first.

Except that there's no efficient way to get there, except by car. I'm not going to take the metro up to Silver Spring and then take a shuttle down to Walter Reed. I'm not going to take a bus all the way to Walter Reed. I'm going to drive. 16th Street Heights lacks the proper infrastructure and lacks the density to make non-auto-based development viable. Besides: the residents want it that way.

by JustMe on Jul 5, 2011 2:21 pm • link • report

Thanks, Rich - that's pretty much what I suspected about the backwards planning. I live just north of Chinatown and trying to walk along the sidewalks on 7th on a gameday (or heck, anyday really) is extremely difficult. Between the kids hanging out on the steps of the Portrait Gallery or in front of Chipotle, the tourists wandering around in a lost daze and the (sometimes) drunk sport fans walking to or from the Verizon Center, it's just too many people for the little sidewalks on both sides of the road.

Chinatown in and of itself is a mess though - as no one respects the bus lanes and even fewer people respect the no turn signs at 7th and H (even if there is a cop in the middle of the intersection). The road becomes a parking lot during the evenings. Wouldn't it be better to try and divert some of that traffic to 6th and 9th?

by Shipsa01 on Jul 5, 2011 2:25 pm • link • report

Comparing a failed pedestrian mall in 90's DC to the potential for one in DC today? Seriously? You are comparing 2 completely different cities.
And to the people saying DC doesn't have the density. Charlottesville, Burlington, Boulder, denser than DC? I know they have college kids and tourists too (If only DC had some of those...) Guess my point is DC absolutely has the ability to support a pedestrian mall but if there is this much nay saying on GGW then I don't think DC will have the balls to try it anytime soon.
When the time does come they need to make sure it's a well thought out civic space. Closing the street is only half the battle. You have to "build it" for them to come. That means seating, art, performance space, playgrounds, plants, fountains, vendors, markets, wifi etc etc.
It could work downtown but I think the allure of a lot of the college-town pedestrian malls is that small town feel. I think Adams Morgan is a prime candidate for that reason and others:
-Has a mainstreet feel
-It's already popular with college kids.
-The Woodley Park/Adams Morgan station serves a ton of tourists
-There is a new luxury hotel in the works

Mstreet in Georgetown could be another candidate but then I think you would have to keep the whitehurst freeway for trough traffic. And it would probably be better to wait until there is a metro stop and street-car serving Gtown so there are actually alternative ways to get there.

by Johnny on Jul 5, 2011 2:28 pm • link • report

@Rich:

Actually, the reason I mentioned DOG is because it's a special circumstance. Merchants' Square works as well as it does, I think, because it's a pedestrian area within a larger pedestrian area. Cars are already going to be kept on the fringes.

by Ser Amantio di Nicolao on Jul 5, 2011 2:33 pm • link • report

Merchants' Square isn't a true pedestrian mall in the strictest sense, but it operates on many of the same principles. Vehicular traffic is kept to a minimum, the shops front onto the central area, there's quite a bit of restaurant seating...it's a pleasant place.

I love dragging out this tidbit: Merchants' Square was the first planned commercial development in the US specifically designed around the automobile.

The northern part of DoG Street didn't get closed to automotive traffic until much more recently. Coincidentally, it was around this time that the center began to "decline," and began catering exclusively to tourists, rather than the local population. These days, there's no place to buy groceries, no pharmacy, and no real basic services in "downtown" Williamsburg. Living in that city is very difficult without a car.

The town was essentially bulldozed in the 1930s to build Colonial Williamsburg (wait...you thought it was *real*???), and the new developments that popped up to replace the old downtown were horrible 1950s sprawl.

Also, traffic around DoG street and Merchant's Square is horrendously bad, and there's nowhere near enough parking or transit around the area.

Actually, Williamsburg's inability to function as a coherent community is what first got me interested in planning topics.

by andrew on Jul 5, 2011 2:39 pm • link • report

Just Me,
I didn't say ban cars - just not make them the focus. A repurposed Walter Reed could include clustering the parking in garages and creating multiple pedestrian only plazas and boulevards. Cars would have a place but second to the pedestrian. Also - its six blocks from the Takoma Park Metro - is that too far to walk?

by Andy(2) on Jul 5, 2011 2:46 pm • link • report

Erm. Meant to say that the *western* part of DoG street wasn't closed to traffic until more recently. Oops.

by andrew on Jul 5, 2011 2:49 pm • link • report

If anything DC has too much density. Pedestrian,malls seem to work best in suburban areas like the grove in LA, bethesda lane, ellsworth is SS, and reston town center. They concentrate ped traffic in a small space to create a walkable space somewhere where the car is king. DC already has plenty of walkable areas so need to concentrate peds to create critical mass. Plazas, which are more like a park than a mall, seem more appropriate for large cities like NYC, paris, and aspiring DC.

by Falls Church on Jul 5, 2011 3:30 pm • link • report

North Mall:

http://wwwtripwithinthebeltway.blogspot.com/2008/02/extending-legacy-with-grand-arc.html

South Mall:

http://wwwsouthcapitolstreet.blogspot.com/2011/04/freemasonry-lets-america-down-via.html

Alas, as the story of the South Mall attests, we lack real political leadership in the USA.

by Douglas WIllinger on Jul 5, 2011 3:35 pm • link • report

The Church St. pedestrian mall works pretty well, but Burlington is another small city with a lot of college students. I think the argument that college students are an important factor is true. There was something of a drop off in traffic downtown when UVM opened a big student center about two years ago. The downtown Mickey D's closed (no loss, but perhaps indicative of student traffic) and the northernmost block of the mall is a bit empty right now. The Borders in that block just announced it will be closing, and that will leave a big hole.

For DC, I think more temporary closures and widening the sidewalks in more locations is the way to go for now.

by PeakVT on Jul 5, 2011 3:38 pm • link • report

If a ped mall was a good idea for 7th and H, then Times Square would already be a ped mall. I know, I know, with that kind of thinking we would not be the first US city with bikeshare. But still...

by Falls Church on Jul 5, 2011 3:39 pm • link • report

I think we need to define what we mean by ped mall. Pearl ST Boulder, The Grove LA, Bourbon ST, Picadilly Circus, and La Ramblas Barcelona could all be considered ped malls but are all very different.

by Falls Church on Jul 5, 2011 3:48 pm • link • report

Ped Malls need a very special set of circumstances to work. On the other hand I like the "festival street" concept for places that can easily be closed off for special events, but the design also helps with traffic calming when they are open.

by spookiness on Jul 5, 2011 3:48 pm • link • report

Is a pedestrian street different from a woonerf? Or should we consider streets that would make good candidates for woonerf-ication?

by NikolasM on Jul 5, 2011 3:53 pm • link • report

19th from K to Dupont Cir. !!

by yrb on Jul 5, 2011 4:36 pm • link • report

I'd suggest looking at Austin, TX as a model...rather than setting up a permanent pedestrian zone, they close off portions of 6th Street each weekend evening to allow for more pedestrian traffic/vendors. Could be a great solution for areas like Adams Morgan if sufficient public transit/parking was included in plans.

by who me on Jul 5, 2011 5:00 pm • link • report

Permanent pedestrian malls seems like a solution looking for a problem.

I'd welcome more temporary, event-based closures. I'd also welcome NikolasM's suggestion of woonerf-ing some streets. But I'd have to be convinced that a ped mall would work (and work well) at any given location. Having one for the sake of having one isn't a good enough reason.

by Alex B. on Jul 5, 2011 5:18 pm • link • report

I think that M Street in Georgetown would be perfect for such a pedestrian mall. Now before I hear people freak about traffic, we already have a Whitehurst freeway and K Street that could be more useful.

I would propose 1) closing M Street from Key Bridge to Wisconsin; 2) adjust light timing to take advantage of no M street traffic to move that traffic on to Whitehurst. By preserving the Wisconsin to "East" M street, we'd preserve a huge traffic flow pattern. Maybe even look at a connection between Whitehurst and Wisconsin to preserve to/from Rosslyn access to Wisconsin.

We'd only lose about 100 parking places and clear up that horribly dangerous Wisconsin/M Intersection. As a pedestrian who doesn't own an automobile, I'd actually be more inclined to go to Georgetown to shop/eat/etc if I didn't have to deal with tiny sidewalks and too many cars. If you really need to park, build a small garage on one of the parking lots in the area.

by Evan on Jul 5, 2011 5:31 pm • link • report

(To the list of dead pedestrian zones, we might add the Waterside Mall area in Southwest before its recent redevelopment.)

The narrow sidewalks in Georgetown and along 18th Street in Adams Morgan charge the atmosphere. But give pedestrians too much space, and the zone goes dead. Chinatown is hectic at times, but is it enough to fill a blocked-off Seventh Street?

I've been amused at the recent brouhaha about closing the "Park and Shop" service road in Cleveland Park. The side of Connecticut Avenue with the access road and narrow sidewalk is full of life -- not because of the access road exactly, but because the consequent narrowness of the sidewalk brings people together and produces a pleasant urban density. Meanwhile, the other side of Connecticut Avenue, with the broad sidewalk, has failed to thrive. You can walk over there, but it's not fun.

by Turnip on Jul 5, 2011 5:33 pm • link • report

@Turnip

There are also far fewer storefronts on the western side of Connecticut in Cleveland Park. And the service lane side isn't really thriving in my humble opinion - what 'thrive' it does have is in spite of its sidewalk, not because of it.

by Alex B. on Jul 5, 2011 5:43 pm • link • report

I am not in favor of any permanent pedestrian malls. Temporary ones, hecks yeah. Permanent, hecks no.

Because of the nature of our city, we have enough street closings for events of all different varieties. I like the temp closings that are event dependent - Pride, Chinese New Year, Carib festival, BBQ battles, etc. I do not like the federal soviet securitheatre crackdowns - so I avoid most fed run events/marches/protests in the city.

I would be totally opposed to closing Adams Morgan, outside of Adams Morgan day.

by greent on Jul 5, 2011 5:52 pm • link • report

NikolasM and AlexB,
I was thinking of woonerfs but my understanding was that a woonerf is sorta residential whereas a more commercial version of that is a festival street. They have similar characteristics. Surface texture, ped & vehicle on same grade, etc. Ellsworth is a festival street, but I've never actually been there when it was open to traffic so I'm not sure how it operates. Portland OR has a festival street in Chinatown I think.

by spookiness on Jul 5, 2011 5:54 pm • link • report

Put it underground, like they do in Asia.

by Steve on Jul 5, 2011 6:47 pm • link • report

I was going to make a snarky comment about Crystal City and there terrible underground space, but then thought of that area around Dupont Circle. Whatever happened to that? Will it ever be open to the public?

by Shipsa01 on Jul 5, 2011 7:37 pm • link • report

Montreal has several pedestrian only streets scattered about the city limits. Some, like Prince-Arthur Street, are pedestrian year round. Others become pedestrian only during the summer months. Given Montreal's climate, this makes sense. Montreal is an excellent model for several different models working simultaneously in one city.
http://www.tourisme-montreal.org/Discover-montreal/pedestrian-streets-in-the-summer-in-montreal?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=ongoing

by ldub on Jul 5, 2011 10:23 pm • link • report

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned either the existing walkway at Gallery Place or the proposed pedestrian spaces at City Center. That said, I agree that they are not appropriate everywhere, and that most successful American examples are in cities with very different dynamics.

Re Times Square: it already is a ped mall.

by Payton on Jul 6, 2011 1:18 am • link • report

Why does it need to be bustling? What about 7th from the gallery to the navy memorial? It's very low traffic so drivers won't miss it, and making the area newer and prettier give those blocks some more oomph for business development. It would also help connect two important tourist hot spots, drawing people up from the mall and down from the gallery/verizon. Not to mention that the Navy Memorial is already a pedestrian mall.

by Klopsi on Jul 6, 2011 1:44 am • link • report

10th street NW between E and F. Tourist regularly move between the Fords Theater and the Petersen house. The mid-block stoplight is ignore by most. Twice in the last ten years the street has been totally closed due to construction of the steam pipes below the street. Traffic still survived. Put in nice vendor booths, coffee vendors, and benches. This would have daytime life by tourists and evening life by theater goers.

by tour guide on Jul 6, 2011 8:48 am • link • report

@Payton

Times Square really isn't a pedestrian mall - at least, not in the true sense of a pedestrian mall excluding all car traffic. Sure, they've closed off Broadway to traffic, but all of the sections that are closed still have car traffic in the immediate vicinity from 7th Ave or any of the cross streets. It's more of a sidewalk widening than anything else.

@tour guide

I agree - that one block of 10th Street in front of Fords Theater is a great candidate for closure, if only a temporary one for key times.

by Alex B. on Jul 6, 2011 8:57 am • link • report

Why has no one mentioned the City Center project?

http://www.oldconventioncenter.com/images/renderings/CityCenter_AlleywayRentals.jpg

http://www.oldconventioncenter.com/images/renderings/CityCenter_AlleywayOffice.jpg

http://www.oldconventioncenter.com/images/renderings/CityCenter_CentralPlaza.jpg

http://www.oldconventioncenter.com/images/renderings/CityCenter_JewelBox.jpg

by Jim Malone on Jul 6, 2011 9:00 am • link • report

@Jim Malone

I wouldn't consider that the creation of a ped mall as this post discusses - Charlottesville took an existing street and removed all the cars, but that's not quite what's going to happen at City Center.

by Alex B. on Jul 6, 2011 9:14 am • link • report

Our downtown grid is a great asset. Closing off streets to traffic is unwise. Especially some of these arterial streets with key bus routes that have been proposed in these threads. Also, I think some of you are overlooking the fact that the only garage entrances and loading docks for some high rise buildings are on the streets you want permanently closed to automobiles.

Half Street by the ballpark might be able to work because it's not an integral part of the grid and it's being developed completely anew - so they could design the new buildings to complement a pedestrian street (but I don't know if they have been).

Otherwise I'd take away parking and widen the sidewalks of a few key blocks around the city (7th by Verizon, U Street, etc). Allow some temporary pedestrian malls elsewhere. And perhaps change the paving materials on 18th Street in Adams Morgan and woonerf a few blocks there.

by Paul S on Jul 6, 2011 9:49 am • link • report

@Steve:

Not just Asia - the entire area around the Pa³ac Kultury in Warsaw is developed underground. It has shops, restaurants, exchange places...and there are hotel entrances there, as well as an entrance to the railway station and one to the Warsaw Metro. It's a pretty huge complex - I'd say it's the equivalent of at least seven or eight square blocks, as I recall. I've often wished we could do something like that here.

by Ser Amantio di Nicolao on Jul 6, 2011 10:06 am • link • report

Isn't the new, multiblock redevelopment at the old convention center site supposed to largely be a pedestrian mall on the interior?

by Bob on Jul 6, 2011 10:18 am • link • report

@Bob - Yes, City Center will have a pedestrian space. But it's more of a pedestrian alley than street. I'm optimistic it will be successful - but even if it is it would be an apples-to-oranges comparison with closing down 7th Street or U Street...

by Paul S on Jul 6, 2011 10:21 am • link • report

I live in Charlottesville. What has made the mall so successful, in my opinion, is the Friday night concerts and the crowds they generate. And you know what makes the concerts so successful? Lots of nearby parking. There are two garages and two open lots very close by. Maybe DC doesn't need the parking but Charlottesville does.

by James on Jul 6, 2011 10:36 am • link • report

@Paul S:

Especially some of these arterial streets with key bus routes that have been proposed in these threads.

Good point. Though there's no reason not to close traffic off to non-commercial private auto traffic using automated bollards. Close certain spaces off to everyone but pedestrians, cyclists, buses, emergency vehicles, and certain commercial deliveries.

by oboe on Jul 6, 2011 10:51 am • link • report

Probably a better analogy to DC than the Charlottesville/Boulder/Ithaca ped malls mentioned would be Nicollet Mall in Minneapolis, though even here, there are notable differences involved (presence of skyways, no height limit).

by Froggie on Jul 6, 2011 11:01 am • link • report

@oboe/Paul S:

Indeed. Nicollet Mall in Minneapolis bans car traffic, but is still a major north-south transit spine through downtown.

by Froggie on Jul 6, 2011 11:02 am • link • report

@oboe - then that's not a pedestrian street activated with cafes and merchants like the Charlottesville experience Tim Wright was advocating for. You're basically just banning cars but not offering any other experience to make the street a better place. I barely see the point...

by Paul S on Jul 6, 2011 11:20 am • link • report

I'm not sure if it's been said before--but an alternative is TEMPORARILY closing streets that seem like a good pedestrian area. A good example is Memorial Drive in Cambridge, Mass which is closed in the summers on Sundays (http://www.bostoncentral.com/events/recreation-sunday-memorial-drive-cambridge/p2296.php)

That said, like it been said many times on this thread--closing off streets is a BAD idea, which usually kills the traffic in a commercial stretch that makes businesses viable.

by B on Jul 6, 2011 12:03 pm • link • report

DC does have a temporary pedestrian mall of sorts every weekend at Eastern Market. And, in fact, when the Market reopened two years ago, there was a lot of talk of permanently closing 7th Street SE between C and North Carolina, but the vendors and business owners on Market Row hated the idea because they said it would decrease weekday traffic.

I too remember the pedestrian mall down near where the verizon center is now, but I think the way to prevent that now is to put it somewhere that already has BID teams in place (like somewhere in NoMa or on the Hill - Barracks Row perhaps, since it's not going to happen permanently on 7th street now) to keep it clean and safe.

by Nichole on Jul 6, 2011 12:43 pm • link • report

The area between Pennsylvania Ave NW between 17th St and 15th St down to E St isn't being used. Existing trails and buildings could be converted nicely. There's even a garden and a fountain.

by Will on Jul 6, 2011 12:45 pm • link • report

We already do. 8Th St NE between Penn Ave and N Carolina on the weekends. It works perfectly fine and allows smaller vendors access to customers without paying for the infrastructure of a storefront.

by EB on Jul 6, 2011 2:42 pm • link • report

@EB, see my comment above. (I assume that you mean 7th Street SE btwn C and North Carolina, but I think we're on the same page.)

by Nichole on Jul 6, 2011 2:44 pm • link • report

Temporary closures do seem to make the most sense. 7th St in Chinatown.Gallery Place makes sense. Maybe 18th St in Adams Morgan, where the sidewalks also are way too narrow. I think it works well during the day on 7th St SE at Eastern Market.

And @Hogwash, about Foggy Bottom escalator It isn't a long flight of stairs. IMO, there lots of lazy people in DC. Until you've been in the Foggy Bottom Metro in the morning, judge not lest you be judged. That place is a nightmare even when one escalator is working so that one row of lazy-ass and/or handicapped, elderly people can stand to their hearts' content while others walk up the other side. Because there is only one exit and a lot of people using it, it can take 10 minutes to get out of the damned thing.

by lou on Jul 6, 2011 4:17 pm • link • report

There are no residential buildings that I saw

I am pretty sure there are a few condos on the Downtown Mall in Charlottesville, but most of them have their entrances on the other side of the buildings, the sides that don't face the pedestrian walkway, but rather on the streets on either side that are accessible to traffic (which makes sense). So you may not have noticed them unless you walked to the outer sides of the streets.

I went to UVa from 1990-1994 and back then, the Downtown mall was just starting to flourish...while it was nothing like it is today, it still was not bad, with The Hardware Store (a fun, quirky restaurant) and Miller's (a pub/bar) being stand-outs from what I can remember. There was also Eastern Standard, a nice little after hours bar and just off the mall across the street (forget which) was a dance club called Silver Fox, then changed to Tryangles, that catered to the gay/lesbian community. Also, the Live Arts Theatre Ensemble had a space not far from the Mall that produced a full season of plays/musicals, and the Jefferson movie theatre was used for 99c 2nd run movies and even some raves. The mall was pretty lively even back then, way before the "renewal".

I went back in 2008 and found some nice additions, great little restaurants/cafes/theatres and particularly the addition of the amphitheatre for live performances towards the end of the pedestrian walkway I think is a nice bonus. It's certainly more "mainstream" now.

But it's not accurate to say that the downtown mall was a disaster prior to the last few years. Even way back in the early 90s, it wasn't too bad, so the change hasn't been that extreme.

by LuvDusty on Jul 6, 2011 4:36 pm • link • report

One thing I find frustrating about these kinds of posts in GGW is that there is no consolidation of pre-existing learning as part of the entry.

DC doesn't have the preconditions for successful ped malls, unfortunately. What we ought to do mostly is focus on making all spaces better (along the lines of what was mentioned about Montreal above).

That being said, I think G St. NW between 7th and 9th Streets, fronting the Reynolds Center and leading into the Verizon Center could work.

Basically, you need a lot of people a lot of the time to make all ped places work. I have a couple entries on this:

- http://urbanplacesandspaces.blogspot.com/2009/04/todays-trends-with-pedestrian-malls.html

- http://urbanplacesandspaces.blogspot.com/2007/10/not-last-word-on-malls.html

one based on a conversation with David Feehan, who closed some ped malls in his time in public administration. Later he was pres. of the Intl. Downtown Assn. He did a paper on ped malls that he submitted to Journal of Town and City Management, but I don't know if they accepted it. I reviewed the paper for him. This is the conclusion:

LESSONS
So what lessons might city and town managers and leaders draw from the experiences the few successful and many unsuccessful pedestrian malls in North America?
 The downtowns of today are not the same as the downtowns from thirty or forty years ago when pedestrian malls were unsuccessful.
 Pedestrian malls are not the silver bullet that many city leaders initially thought they would be; but, given proper design, management, maintenance and marketing, they can be one element of more pedestrian-friendly and economically successful downtowns and commercial centers.
 Perhaps the most important factor in pedestrian street success is effective, competent management. BIDs are the proven and preferred tool for providing this.
 Design is very important. European pedestrian streets are simple in design and easy to maintain and placed within their context. Over-design is a recipe for failure.
 Public spaces like these are the stages on which we celebrate our communities. BIDs and other management entities should actively program these spaces.
 Management of pedestrian malls requires involvement from and coordination with private property owners. Managing the retail mix is crucial to ongoing success.
 Security and fear of crime have lessened over the years; but “clean and safe” is still a basic requirement, and should not be neglected.
 Access is vital. Connections to transit and parking are essential, access to and from other major pedestrian generators should be considered and signage/wayfinding are equally important.
 Promotion of downtown residential development is another major plus. Residents not only provide customers for businesses; they are the “strollers” who make the mall look busy even when they aren’t shopping or dining.
 Finally, pedestrian streets or malls are most successful when the public-private partnership is functioning well. BID managers should work hard to be both effective advocates for downtowns and effective facilitators of these partnerships.

by Richard Layman on Jul 6, 2011 9:59 pm • link • report

Many European pedestrian malls are not IMPOSED as an IDEA about how to build the city but are rather a rational RESPONSE to problem of transportation in high density environments, increasing capacity (without destroying transportation benefit) by taking the car out of the equation.

This has usually involved maintaining or adding higher capacity surface transportation, such as street cars .

DC is actually in a very good situation to have naturally developing pedestrian malls - if it would take seriously the goal of moving people, not vehicles and recognize the value of its own high density.

by egk on Jul 7, 2011 12:44 am • link • report

Anywhere that is selected should not have any bus service on it or there must be a plan to navigate buses around the mall with proper signage (which WMATA nor any local government is good at)

7th Street NW, 8th Street SE, M Street NW should be a absolute hell no unless they have a plan to solve the bus routing issue without adding significant time, delays or not serving an area.

by kk on Jul 7, 2011 1:40 pm • link • report

Good to keep in mind the Charlottesville pedestrian mall was a disaster for a very long time. It was once mostly a strip of closed stores. Too many routes are difficult in DC as it is. We have the National Mall anyway...so lets get behind that back into the shape Pat Nixon worked so hard to bring about 40 years ago.

by Pelham1861 on Jul 7, 2011 3:42 pm • link • report

I agree with you, KK, which is why I think 7th from G-H (but ideally Penn to Mass) could work. The only two buses that run there are the 70's and the Circulator and they are shuttering that Circulator route very shortly. For the 70's, going Northbound, they could turn right on Constitution (like the 30's and 50's) and then make a left onto 6th. Then they could go North on 6th until Mass, turn left there and head back over to 7th. Going Southbound, the 70's could go down 7th as normal, but then turn right on Mt. Vernon Place (which I believe is wide enough to accommodate a bendy bus) and then left onto 9th. Then it could go down 9th all the way to Penn, then take a left and follow that back to 7th. This would also help out Chinatown and Penn Quarter by bringing much needed foot traffic and transportation options to side streets that often-times get ignored.

by Shipsa01 on Jul 8, 2011 9:45 am • link • report