Public Safety
Teens need things to do, not a curfew
Yesterday, Montgomery County Executive Ike Leggett proposed setting a curfew on teenagers under 18, raising concerns about how young people are treated here and around the country.
Photo by thecourtyard on Flickr.
Expedited Bill 25-11 (PDF) would bar minors from being in public in Montgomery County after 11 pm on weeknights, and after midnight on weekends. Exceptions would be made for young people coming home from work, attending a school or church activity, or those accompanied by a parent or other authorized adult, and anyone caught breaking curfew would be taken to the nearest police station.
While it's true that curfews in other cities have sometimes successfully reduced crime (PDF), many feel they are unnecessarily restrictive and discriminatory against teenagers. They also don't address what may be the root cause of teen crime, which is a general lack of things to do.
After dark, there isn't much to do in Montgomery County, which contributes to the problem. Many of the county's movie theatres and bowling alleys have closed in recent years, so teens often end up in urban areas like Rockville Town Center, downtown Bethesda and downtown Silver Spring, where some of them get into trouble and harm others.
If there were more legitimate nighttime activities for teens, that would deter some of the illegitimate activities from happening. Parent groups often organize post-prom parties to deter drinking after school dances. Perhaps the Recreation Department or other organizations could set up similar events on other nights.
It's unclear whether a curfew in Montgomery County is actually necessary. Though Leggett's spokesman, Patrick Lacefield, claims that Montgomery has become a magnet for gang members coming from the District and Prince George's, police statistics show that youth crime in the county is decreasing.
The number of youth under 18 arrested each year has been steady for the past ten years and, in fact, fell for most of the decade. Meanwhile, the number of juvenile offenses recorded each year has fallen by 36 percent since 2001. According to the Washington Post, gang-related incidents in the county have dropped by more than half since 2007.
It could even be that the increase in public spaces such as downtown Silver Spring available to teens in Montgomery County may even be contributing to the decline in crime, since such places are effectively chaperoned by the general public. Cutting troublesome teens off from public spaces would only send them "underground" and out of sight.
Whether or not the proposed curfew would be effective, it may also be illegal. Teen curfews have faced many court challenges, often finding them to be too restrictive. In 2007, the American Civil Liberties Union sued the city of Lake Oswego, Oregon on behalf of four high school students, stating that a teen curfew there "criminalizes all youth" whether or not they had done anything wrong. Two years ago, a state appeals court in California struck down a teen curfew in San Diego that had many of the same provisions as Montgomery County's proposed curfew, arguing that the ban was too broad to be enforced.
There are better solutions. We can reduce crime and provide more activities for people of all ages in Montgomery County by creating more nightlife options in urban centers like downtown Silver Spring, putting eyes on the street and giving teenagers legitimate places to go.
The Fillmore music hall, which opens this fall, will do just that, putting two thousand ticket-buying people on the streets multiple times a week. More housing downtown will also keep the area populated and patrolled after the diners and concertgoers have left.
Teen curfews, like last year's county-imposed skateboarding ban in downtown Silver Spring, just punish all young people for the misdeeds of a few. What's next, mandatory summer school for everyone because a few kids flunked English?
With crime decreasing and the possibility of judicial challenge, a curfew in Montgomery County is a solution looking for a problem. There are more substantial ways to combat crime and boredom, so long as we're willing to find them.
The curfew bill goes before the Montgomery County Council at a public hearing on Tuesday, July 26, at the Council Office Building in Rockville. For more information, see the County Council website.
 | A planner and architect by training, Dan Reed is interested in suburban retrofits. Dan works for the Friends of White Flint, writes his own blog, Just Up the Pike, and serves as the Land Use Chair for the Action Committee for Transit. Dan lives in Silver Spring.    |
Comments
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No teen should be out past 10pm. Go home, go to sleep, hang out with your family.
The thought that society needs to create things for kids to do at all hours of the day is a hippie stupidity. There are things to do during the morning, day and evenings. At night, kids should be at home.
I fully support curfew laws. I do think however that the parent should not be the only one punished. If the kid is out past curfew, both the parents and the teen should have repercussions. Teach a kid what it means to be an adult.
by greent on Jul 13, 2011 2:45 pm • link • report
If teens are doing things that are illegal, arrest those teens for those crimes. You know, the crimes that are already illegal.
by Matt Johnson on Jul 13, 2011 2:51 pm • link • report
It is true that enacting curfews is sometimes viewed by electeds as doing something. And it is. It's just not doing everything young people, their families and the community needs.
In my experience with the DC curfew legislation and early implementation, it seems that a good number of people complain about the curfew but fewer advocate regularly and over time for the more and better things for young people to do.
And let me just add that there is much more to this "giving kids something to do" idea than simply offering midnight basketball (I know, I know, it's only an example!). This issue, when unpacked, is about parenting, family relations, domestic violence, child abuse and neglect, and much more.
Youth curfews are but one thing communities can do to keep young people safe. I agree with Mr. Reed that much must be done.
by Susie Cambria on Jul 13, 2011 2:55 pm • link • report
by w on Jul 13, 2011 2:58 pm • link • report
Send the kids home. My parents gave me a curfew and I turned out just fine.
by J on Jul 13, 2011 3:02 pm • link • report
by TGEoA on Jul 13, 2011 3:05 pm • link • report
by BeyondDC on Jul 13, 2011 3:09 pm • link • report
After dark, there isn't much to do in Montgomery County, which contributes to the problem.
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I don't see how that has anything to do with the proposed curfew law since the curfew is for 11 PM and midnight, not at dark.
I'm also not sure that the curfew helps solve any problems, such as juvenile crime, but I also don't think that much good happens past midnight either.
by Fitz157 on Jul 13, 2011 3:19 pm • link • report
by JustMe on Jul 13, 2011 3:21 pm • link • report
by David Alpert on Jul 13, 2011 3:24 pm • link • report
Because teens' circadian clocks are set differently from adults and younger children-they're wide awake way into the wee hours. Don't you remember?
by Tina on Jul 13, 2011 3:26 pm • link • report
When I was 16 and 17, I was often at a friend's house until later than that. Teenagers don't want to be cooped up in the house all the time and tend to go to sleep late. We're not talking about 8-year-olds here.
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I did the same as you but I usually just ended up sleeping over at my friends place. I think that there is a difference between hanging out at a friends house until 2 or 3 AM and being out and about until 2 or 3 AM.
by Fitz157 on Jul 13, 2011 3:29 pm • link • report
Like you were in bed by 9pm every night? There are legitimate reasons. Late-night study session. Hanging out with friends. Going to a diner or a movie. All things that don't involve alcohol and are not signs of gang activity. In high school, my friends and I spent Saturday nights in our friend Cheryl's basement playing board games until after midnight. If I didn't want to sleep over, I went home. And I could get pulled over for Scrabble? I might as well have been drinking.
by dan reed! on Jul 13, 2011 3:32 pm • link • report
by Daniel on Jul 13, 2011 3:35 pm • link • report
"many feel"? Do you have numbers to back that statement up? I don't mean to be confrontational, I just want to make sure there is indeed a strong opposition to curfews in Montgomery Co.
They also don't address what may be the root cause of teen crime, which is a general lack of things to do.
Lack of things to do is the root cause of crime? Is there evidence to support this? Because I would think of bad parenting or a lack of parents and role models as well as various social pathologies as being more influential.
Frankly, there appears to be a tradeoff between civil liberties and public safety, so wouldn't you want to look at the forecasted crime reduction and weigh it methodically against the loss of civil liberties?
by EJ on Jul 13, 2011 3:36 pm • link • report
Join us here: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=117757294984934
by Leah Muskin-Pierret on Jul 13, 2011 3:42 pm • link • report
That said, many activities that me and my friends enjoy take place at bars (concerts, kareoke, trivia) and with that you have to usually be 21. Me and my friends had less boring saturday nights once we were able to actually patronize many of the places around the city that are open later even my friends who don't drink.
Places that have teens loitering should also keep up foot patrol beats for cops to help keep the peace when young people make immature decisions. The presence of an authority is better than trying to ban it in your area.
by Canaan on Jul 13, 2011 3:43 pm • link • report
I would be very surprised if cops were posted outside of a movie theater waiting to bust teens as they leave a late show.
I remember my teens as well. Nothing good happened after 11pm.
by J on Jul 13, 2011 3:52 pm • link • report
However I think this wholesale curfew unrelated to anything other than being young and awake in the nighttime is wrong.
by Tina on Jul 13, 2011 3:54 pm • link • report
by dan reed! on Jul 13, 2011 3:55 pm • link • report
by anon on Jul 13, 2011 4:01 pm • link • report
You ought to comment on Council President Valerie Ervin's position, which is a localized curfew.
Further, Tina is right. Maryland does have a 12 am curfew for all drivers who get their license under age 18 for the first 18 months of their licensed life. Because you have to be 16 years and 3 months old to get your license, it is a type of curfew for those who are driving.
by thesixteenwords on Jul 13, 2011 4:05 pm • link • report
by w on Jul 13, 2011 4:08 pm • link • report
by Tina on Jul 13, 2011 4:09 pm • link • report
by DCSW on Jul 13, 2011 4:10 pm • link • report
I totally agree that for the most part teens can occupy themselves. But there is talk of building a Teen Center in downtown Silver Spring, and we will need to create some programming for it.
@thesixteenwords
A localized curfew is still a curfew. Presumably, a localized curfew would happen in places like downtown Silver Spring, which would just encourage the good kids to take their business elsewhere. Who does that help?
by dan reed! on Jul 13, 2011 4:15 pm • link • report
And that's exactly the problem with laws like this. They rely on the myth of responsible police officers who never abuse their authority. This is supposed to be a society of laws, laws that are fairly applied to everyone. Where individuals have rights and don't get harassed based upon the whims of authorities. Hell well you are at it why don't we strip everyone of all their rights so police can more just round up whoever they think looks suspicious young or old.
by Doug on Jul 13, 2011 4:30 pm • link • report
Amusement parks? Really. That gets expensive pretty quick. And then people would complain about too many kids hanging out there. Tivoli isn't that great of an example. It closes at 10 or 11PM, except its open till midnight on some nights in the summer. Plus, its overrun with annoying drunk Swedish people, made worse since the bridge opened. DC & environs isn't NYC, but there's plenty to do for teens up to the hours of 11PM. After that, theres no real reason to be out unless you're looking for trouble.
by spookiness on Jul 13, 2011 4:38 pm • link • report
So you believe in blaming all for the actions of one or a few ?
So how would be work if there is a curfew that is the stupidest and discriminating ideas ever mentioned on here.
How would you feel if they idea was used on age, race, gender, social class, education, speech, knowledge, disability etc. How would you feel if everybody gets blamed if one person does something wrong in an entire city or state.
by kk on Jul 13, 2011 4:41 pm • link • report
On the flipside, I think the "teens have nothing to do" thing is a cop-out. My friends and I didn't have shit to do before one of us got a car, but we didn't sit there thinking "well we don't have anything to do, might as well go rob some people." Know why? Because we were raised by good parents in good environments. And who's gonna end up footing the bill for these "things to do"? The taxpayer. I'd rather not be subsidizing a red herring of an argument, thanks.
by Martin on Jul 13, 2011 4:51 pm • link • report
Pretty sure a lot of people were just complaining about the Arizona immigration law and its requirement for carrying papers. How would this be any different?
by Martin on Jul 13, 2011 4:53 pm • link • report
I'd assume giving them your DOB and name would be fine, just as it always is.
by jag on Jul 13, 2011 5:03 pm • link • report
We should be encouraging legitimate activities so that people can go out and have legal fun, legally - and to push out illegitimate activities. If kids (and adults) are out in downtown Silver Spring eating, going to shows, and drinking (the adults, that is), then you don't have as many opportunities for people to act out. The presence of other people is a crime deterrent.
So no, I'm not saying we need to start midnight basketball so that thugs won't be about causing harm. They'll be doing it anyway. And they'll be doing it after a curfew is instituted - of course then cops will be too busy writing up all of the other kids to deal with it.
by dan reed! on Jul 13, 2011 5:07 pm • link • report
It's not that "nothing good happens" after 11pm or midnight, it's that there's no valid reason NOT to have a curfew if MC thinks that it will reduce the risks to kids.
"Teenagers" aren't a protected class that are entitled to 100% civil rights. They are by definition emotionally immature, and are not fiscally accountable. Adults are allowed more freedoms, because they carry more accountability. That's the tradeoff in life.
It's also not society's responsibility to pay for enough cops to run around chasing kids during the graveyard shift. The county has determined that teenagers are an unnecessary burden on law enforcement. Teens are going to have to suck it up and find more constructive day time opportunities to have fun.
by eb on Jul 13, 2011 5:10 pm • link • report
That said, I support a curfew in DTSS and think we need a heavier police presence to run these thugs back to DC and PG.
by Redline SOS on Jul 13, 2011 5:11 pm • link • report
A local curfew, for example, one amounting to "skate rats and out-of-towners out of DTSS by midnight on weekends" is hardly infringing on the rights of 16-year-olds to go see a movie that ends after curfew begins. I'd think that this proposed ordnance should have some exceptions specifically to cover this particular set of situations. All anyone would have to do would be to produce their ticket stubs (you just saw a Black Flag reunion and didn't save the ticket stub? No street cred for you!) and say that they're headed home... and then actually head home. Headed home from a movie that lets out at 11:15PM? Same thing. Save your ticket stubs, kids, they're a "keep out of jail card".
That being said, I was young once and that was here in MoCo, in Aspen Hill to be exact. Here, for sure, there is zip diddly nada to do for free or cheap. At least that was true back in the day, and whatever things were inexpensive or free (visiting at friends' houses, sports down at the schoolyard or park) are closed by 11:00. Indeed, here in Aspen Hill, most of the things that cost more money than kids usually have, they're closed at 11:00 too. That would cover most shopping and dining outside of 7-11 and Taco Bell, and about the only other things open are the gas-stations, and places that serve alcohol which should have no minor customers in any case.
There is, of course, the consideration that teens have evolved to have sleep and waking patterns that promote their survival by keeping them out of the way of adults who might tend to be grumpy in the morning. It's probably an equally good idea to keep them out of the way of adults who are out late at night, when there's a definitely increased likelihood of those adults being under the influence. While I can't recall any incidents of drunk adults beating minors in the places minor congregate, I seem to recall a lot of incidents making the news in which minors engaged in considerable violence in gathering spots frequented by adults in search of a good time and party atmosphere. Who would want to walk out of, say, Piratz after a long night of grog, and be confronted after midnight by a large-ish gathering of overly excitable teens? Not me.
So I'll come out in favor of a localized curfew for "youth", though I see no reason to keep the high-school Drama Club from staying out late to get their projects finished the night before the big show.
As always, though, I'll always favor more law-enforcement at the trouble-spots and the routes to and from them, over blanket curtailment of rights of the presumptively innocent.
by Thomas Hardman on Jul 13, 2011 5:31 pm • link • report
Crime has gone DOWN in Montgomery County for the past ten years. It just doesn't make sense that suddenly teenagers are any worse a burden on law enforcement than they have been before. And besides, police in Silver Spring or wherever are there for the adults who're out to do harm as well. Again, the curfew means cops spend their time chasing all kids, not just the bad ones.
by dan reed! on Jul 13, 2011 5:35 pm • link • report
by Vita on Jul 13, 2011 5:40 pm • link • report
That's funny. On the weekend nights, I want a bigger police prescence to run the thugs out of Adams Morgan that come from Maryland and VA.
If parents would parent, kids would not be out on the street past 11. Movies and concerts? Too bad. Either hte venuw should move the concert to 7p - 10p for teens or those concerts will be there when you are 18.
Get home kids. That's why you are kids. You don't have the full autonmous life of an adult. Because you are a kid.
by greent on Jul 13, 2011 6:00 pm • link • report
by vanmo96 on Jul 13, 2011 6:09 pm • link • report
by mike on Jul 13, 2011 6:38 pm • link • report
by John on Jul 13, 2011 8:47 pm • link • report
by Rich on Jul 13, 2011 10:21 pm • link • report
The District and Prince George's already have curfews, so presumably if you see kids there at night, they're over 18. I agree that we should find a way to deal with the kids who are causing trouble. But we don't need to do it at the expense of everyone else.
@greent
My parents let me go to movies or concerts at the 9:30 Club that let out after 11pm/midnight. When I was done, I'd catch the Metro home and that was that. I think I turned out okay, and I bet most kids whose apparently negligent parents do the same turned out okay as well.
by dan reed! on Jul 13, 2011 11:22 pm • link • report
by Tina on Jul 13, 2011 11:31 pm • link • report
The presence of this silly, unjustifiable, and needlessly punitive law will make kids respect the law less across the board.
If being outdoors is a crime, you might as well get high while doing it.
by andrew on Jul 14, 2011 12:11 am • link • report
by Thayer-D on Jul 14, 2011 7:09 am • link • report
the law was well-respected. bring out the national guard.
by AJ on Jul 14, 2011 7:32 am • link • report
Are you sarcastic or did you live in East Berlin in the 60's?
by spookiness on Jul 14, 2011 8:45 am • link • report
by w on Jul 14, 2011 8:52 am • link • report
It sure looks that way.
As in so many other issues about crime, it's all too much like "whack a mole". If you bang it down one place, it just pops up somewhere else. The only approach that can work is to bang all places at once so that anything trying to pop up gets a hammer on the head before it can even fully emerge.
However, it's useful to be reminded that the real problem group is not just the minors, call them 13 through 17. The real problem group centers mostly around the age range of about 16-23 or so.
I can't think of much that can be done other than aggressive policing and harsh judgments in the courts for the 18 through 23 age range. Yet the worst of this thuggery and troublemaking occurs at night, generally starting about the time that the curfew would start sending home the minors.
I suppose one might say that what's happening is that one particular subculture -- one of youth abusiveness and violence -- attempts to assume primacy at that time, to dominate the other subcultures at least during those hours. Since the majority of the subcultures don't like that abusive and violent subculture, we elect to suppress it. One of the best ways to do that is to keep the younger elements, who are impressionably experimenting with various subcultures, isolated from this violent and abusive "older generation". There will always be individuals who are sick with violence and hate, but if we can keep it from being transmitted as a culture, our approaches to dealing with it become easily more simple and straightforward...
Because if we don't stamp it out as a culture, then it goes from a state not merely bridging a line between subgenerations of sub-adult and young-adult, it can become a full life cycle culture and go multigenerational.
I think we can all agree that we don't want that.
by Thomas Hardman on Jul 14, 2011 11:04 am • link • report
Either that or arrest the parent's of minors that break the law. Then, things would change.
by John @ RI Ave Stn on Jul 14, 2011 12:32 pm • link • report
by David Alpert on Jul 14, 2011 2:34 pm • link • report
Either that or arrest the parent's of minors that break the law. Then, things would change.
First off we are talking about teenagers here soon to be adults not 7 year olds. Teens dont go to bed at 8 and wait for there moms to kiss them good night. They have plenty of resposiblitys that keep then up past 10 such as Jobs, Sports, realashionships. I know when i was a teen i would be up working untill 10 or 11 at night and would have to walk home after. Also teens go out at night to have fun hang with friends, go to the movies since when is that a crime? you cant posssibly tell me in your years of being a teen you never stayed out past 10 and why are teens the olny ones having there rights takin away when there is just as much if not more and more serious crimes comited by adults? Its so typical USA to blam the small weaker group and punish them Race, Age, Sex its always the same problim. we need to fix this by putting more cops out there to protet people from all criminals of all ages, race and sex not put this ineffctive law that wont stop crime olny keep the good kids at home and make the govermnet feel like they did somthing.
Also John please tell me how in the world aressting prarents would help at all not olny will there be thosands of kids out on the street now parentless but are we now also going to take away the rights of the parent since when should a parent be sent to jail for deciding how to raise there kid and how long they can stay out?
by Jake on Jul 14, 2011 3:50 pm • link • report
by Jake on Jul 14, 2011 4:07 pm • link • report
Teenagers are not adults. Provide activities for teenagers during the day and evening. After 10 pm, it is adult time. Kids can stay home. I don't get to play in parks that are for kids, I don't expect kids to be out after 10 pm.
When the streetlights come on, you should be 18, or inside a house.
Waaaaaaa. Poor teenagers have nothign to do. Then they'll turn to drugs and crime and get pregnant. Waaaaaaa. The day this workld decided the whole point of adults living is to bow down to children makes this society a joke. Waaaaaaaa. If kids commite crimes: arrest them. If kids do drugs: arrest them. If kids get pregnant... arrest them. (Kids need consistency after all)
:)
by greent on Jul 14, 2011 4:40 pm • link • report
Board.
Kids.
Booooring.
by greent on Jul 14, 2011 4:42 pm • link • report
A curfew law is begging for selective enforcement. The cops aren't going to harass kids unless they think they're up to no good. The number of exceptions in DC's law is enough to make it just another arbitrary police power.
by Neil Flanagan on Jul 14, 2011 5:09 pm • link • report
What law isn't? Seriously. This is the best lesson for kids: cops enforce rules selectively. Act appropriately.
" "Kids is kids" isn't good enough of an argument. "
yeah, it is. Children are nto adults, they do not have the rights of adults. That is a perfectly valid reason.
If you do not believe it is, make an argument that children have the right - the legal right - to be out at any time of their choosing. Their parents can already exempt them, so that don't fly.
If midnight is too early, is any c urfew appropriate? Kid wants to be out at 3 am. That is fine to the GGW hippie lefties, right?!?! If they are out and commit any type of crime - it's because society failed to provide them activities at 3 am! It's societies fault. Right?!?!
Responsibility begins at home. Go home and learn it.
by greent on Jul 14, 2011 5:23 pm • link • report
So, no legal curfew isn't adding responsibility. It's disincentivizing it for parents, because they can just rely on the law instead of their own rules. For teens, it's just another dumb rule with no palpable connection between actions and consequence.
But if thinking that the police should be held to the letter of the law, I guess I oughta go to a NAMBLA/NARAL rap session.
by Neil Flanagan on Jul 14, 2011 5:49 pm • link • report
In my experience cops seek out teenagers to harrass and even physically brutalize, mostly boys. Though as a girl I was harrassed too my brothers and men friends got it much worse. I don't want cops to have any small excuse to approach my kid as s/he makes his/her way home from a friends or a movie.
@greent- Responsibility begins at home. Agreed; NOT in the County Council. See Vida's comment above.
I can't believe that the people claiming that kids couldn't possibly be up to anything positive (or even just benign) late at night don't have any happy memories from their own childhoods of late night activities. Here's a short list of mine:
Running in all night relays at the HS track (only once but it was memorbale)
midnight movies
Midnight shows at the planetarium
midnight ice-skating
Midnight bowling
Coming home from away sporting events that went late
Coming home after late studying
Hanging out by a bon fire
Playing games like kick-the-can outside until very late - I spent countless summer hours doing this night after night with a group of kids.
by Tina on Jul 14, 2011 6:15 pm • link • report
I'd rather have the parents exercise that judgement than cops.
by Neil Flanagan on Jul 14, 2011 6:27 pm • link • report
by Neil Flanagan on Jul 14, 2011 6:29 pm • link • report
by JP on Jul 14, 2011 7:06 pm • link • report
People have jobs that keep them out after sundown. Yes. I even had a parttime job that sometimes got me home late. I knew several people (siblings & friends) who worked even later than me. I was lucky but I knew kids whose jobs were very important to their families' economic stability. Even if the job ends at 10:30 it could take >half hr. to get home. I think there's a federal law prohibiting kids<18 from working past a certain hour now? IDK.
There are thousands of kids all over greater washington lining up for Harry potter movie tix tonight. They will be there all night. The movie opens tomorrow. Should they all be hauled off to the police station? Its just crazy.
by Tina on Jul 14, 2011 7:19 pm • link • report
by Greg on Jul 14, 2011 9:04 pm • link • report
by MCPS TEACHER on Jul 15, 2011 5:39 am • link • report
by MCPS TEACHER on Jul 15, 2011 5:54 am • link • report
by Ms. H on Jul 15, 2011 6:11 am • link • report
by Jake on Jul 15, 2011 11:32 am • link • report
Grennt said- Teenagers are not adults. Provide activities for teenagers during the day and evening. After 10 pm, it is adult time. Kids can stay home. I don't get to play in parks that are for kids, I don't expect kids to be out after 10 pm
Your right teenagers are not adults yet. But they most certainly are not kids by any mean? i mean realy are you joking when do you see teenagers playing on a play ground? Thats as likly as seeing a 70 year old man in a gym. and to say that a Teen ager is a kid is like saying that 64 year old is young and does not have wisdom yet cause they are not a senoir yet your logic just dosent make sence.
Then you said-yeah, it is. Children are nto adults, they do not have the rights of adults. That is a perfectly valid reason.
So this is to say that Teens should just be seen as a second class citizen then? i understand teens are not down growing and need to have rules but that dosent mean say " ahh screw you your just a kid and im an adult im gonna go have fun tonight cause i can and you cant" no we need to give them bonderices but let them grow teach them resoniblites they are people to and need to be treated as such. If we give them the inpresion we olny see them as a secons cause Citizen they wont have any RESPECT for there PRARENTS or the LAW!
by Jake on Jul 15, 2011 11:59 am • link • report
WOW grennt ok lets see here so your saying we should all be hypocrits here and punish kids as adults try kids as adults and quote" teach a kid what it means to be an adult" yet treat them as if they were 5 years old. what does that show them it is to be an adult abuse power? give them the same punishment as an adult with harsher laws agginst them and still treat them with no respect? where is the justice in that? Now i do completly agree with you that teens or adults should both have strong puishments on things such as drugs, or viloence. But if they are to me punished like an adult they need to be treated more as an adult and not have these rediculious laws put on them. Rules that there parents should be making and enforcing its not your job or a cops job to tell parents how to parent. Also Aressting a Girl for getting PREGINENT is!? how could you even recomend that? how would that help putting all the teens in jail that are preginent so her and her childed will have a horrible life it is 100% that young girls choice to keep a baby or get an abortion and to say that all girls under 18 that get preginet to go to jail is unbelivable. sex is a natrual thing at that age. i am not promtoing teens doing this at all! but its just a fact that it happins and they should abosulty not go to jail for somthing like that.If that ever became an unforced law id loss faith in the freedom and rights we are suppost to have in this country!
by Kilroy on Jul 15, 2011 3:01 pm • link • report
Killroy: "id loss faith in the freedom and rights we are suppost to have in this country!"
See - you are learnin what it means to be an adult after all!
Children do not need to be out past 10 pm... 11pm is being generous. I am not saying to treat a teen like a 5 year old. 5 year olds should not be out at all without a person over 16 to watch them, and I would support a 6 pm curfew for 5 years.
Dear Jake: "when do you see teenagers playing on a play ground"
Gee, when I was a teenager, we hung out at the parks. We played basketball at the park. We swung on the swing-sets. Parks are not only for precious little toddlers. But I guess they are not cool enough for the modern teen.
Kids are not "2nd class citizens" like gays, women and minorities have been. But newsflash: they are not adults - they do not have full unadulterated rights. They cannot vote and they cannot serve jury duty - the main responsibilities of citizens. They do not have unencumbered freedom of movement (we force children to go to school - whether in the home or a spearate buidling). A teenager does NOT have full rights over their own body. So, yeah, I am fine with limiting their ability to be roaming around after a certain time. Just like I am fine not letting them drive with other teens in the car.
Teenagers aren't adults. We do not need to create things for them to do at all hours of the day. They do not need "things to do" as Mr. Reed stated. They need to be home.
@Tina: @greent said: Responsibility begins at home. Agreed; NOT in the County Council.
Well, if the HOME would be friggin responsibile for keeping tabs on their children, and keeping their children off the streets, maybe govt wouldn't need to step in. But hey, we had truancy officers in the past, because parents wouldn't send their kids to school. So yeah, argument wasted already.
@neal: So, no legal curfew isn't adding responsibility.
Yes it is. it is adding responsibiloty to the PARENTS by makin them watch their kids and it teaches kids there are limits to what they can do. Oh sure, they'll push those limits, and guess what that teachable moment means?
Poor poor teenagers can't get everything they want whenever they want at all times that they want. Poor poor teenagers, adults say you have to be in your house at a certain time. Oh the horror.
The sense of entitlement in children nowaday is created by people who forgot that children are not adults.
by greent on Jul 15, 2011 3:40 pm • link • report
Either you've had kids, or you will have kids, and you can set rules on when they can or can't be out and raise them as you see fit. That's your job as a parent, and the vast majority of parents (in Montgomery County or elsewhere) are capable of the same.
That said, you (as a mature, tax-paying adult) don't have the right to tell other people how to raise their kids. I'm proud to be from Montgomery County, and I think my experiences growing up there shaped me into the person I am. But I find the curfew really disappointing. As MCPS TEACHER said, this is one of the best school systems in the nation. This is a county filled with smart, talented, motivated kids who (thanks to good parents and a good education) know right from wrong. Some make mistakes. Others make a lot of mistakes and deserve to be sanctioned appropriately.
This isn't about what kids should or shouldn't be doing at night. This curfew is supposed to be a way to reduce crime in a county whose crime rates have been falling for years. Yet instead of finding ways to further reduce crime, we're creating a penalty for all young people. That doesn't make any sense to me.
by dan reed! on Jul 15, 2011 4:31 pm • link • report
by jps on Jul 15, 2011 4:48 pm • link • report
Exactly! So, give them a curfew, and teach them that the choice of breaking a law has consequences - for them and their parents.
"That said, you (as a mature, tax-paying adult) don't have the right to tell other people how to raise their kids."
Yes boyo, we do. Society tells people how to raise their kids everyday: we tell them they must educate them. we tell them they must feed them - and we advise them on what not to feed them. We tell them they must take them to a hospital even if their religion says not too. We tell them they cannot let their kid drink alcohol.
Laws covering children are not set only by parents. Laws are set by society.
Children are not adults. They do not get the same rights as adults and they do not have the same responsibilities.
Please explain how these are different:
Limit a teenagers ability to work past a certain number of hours in a week.
Limit a teenagers ability to be out past a certain hour.
Shouldn't a parent say how many hours of work their child can handle? But big bad govt came in and said Nope, kids are kids, not adults. Both are legitimate concerns of society.
I support curfews for teenagers. This makes perfect sense to me.
When a teenager becomes an adult, they can be out til whatever hour they choose. And they can vote. But no beer for you, sonnyboy.
by greent on Jul 15, 2011 5:12 pm • link • report
by vanmo96 on Jul 15, 2011 6:27 pm • link • report
By thee way, how old are you?
by vanmo96 on Jul 15, 2011 6:29 pm • link • report
Everyone complians there isn't enough to do for young people. When did providing entertainment become the sole responsibility of our government?
by Sean Wieland on Jul 16, 2011 12:08 pm • link • report
"It's 10PM. Do you know where your children are?"
What positive purpose do kids have for being out late a night? Especially when school is is session?
by ceefer66 on Jul 16, 2011 4:08 pm • link • report
Go to a concert, go to see a midnight movie, go for a nice walk WHEN IT IS COMFORTABLE OUTSIDE, look at the stars we can see through the area's light pollution. More ideas?
by vanmo96 on Jul 16, 2011 11:45 pm • link • report
I don't think it's solely the government's responsibility to provide entertainment for young people. On the other hand, if we've agreed it's necessary to expend resources on young people, I'd rather it be so kids can spend time at a recreation center rather than at a police station.
by dan reed! on Jul 17, 2011 2:58 pm • link • report
Teens need PARENTS, who will naturally be providing constructive direction for their children and waiting up for them when they get home any night of the week. Those who don't have caring attentive parents, need curfew's and gov't officials and MPD -- albeit a terrible excuses for parents -- to try and fill in.
This means gov't imposed curfews and the soft penalty of being detained if caught breaking curfew, to keep young people in line and to try to help them realize that there are adults attempting to look out for their best interests. It's never a great solution, but blame the breeders, poor excuses for real men and women (often boys and girls) who stupidly have unprotected sex w/o any rational consideration for the consequences of getting pregnant and the time/expense/care invovled in bringing children into this world w/o a plan for raising them love and firm guidance. #Skeet-skeet is not the end, it's the beginning...
All these so called *father's* (and mother's) who happen to be in jail, should have their sentences extended *each time* one of their offspring is apprehended by police.
by CCCA Prez on Jul 17, 2011 7:03 pm • link • report
Go to a concert, go to see a midnight movie, go for a nice walk WHEN IT IS COMFORTABLE OUTSIDE, look at the stars we can see through the area's light pollution. More ideas?
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Sure do:
Stay at home and spend time doing things with their families (including "looking at the stars through the light pollution") and studying so they don't leave high school as functional illiterates.
You think the Asian kids are whining about not being able to run the streets?
by ceefer66 on Jul 27, 2011 2:39 pm • link • report
by Kaylee on Nov 15, 2012 10:16 am • link • report
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