when u lack basic skills who is going to hire you, people should have taken the free education when they had the chance now they want to point fingers and blame the city for them not having a job, you can't spend 90% of your time in bed and think a job will be handle to you.....or something more simple Barry just dont care about the ghetto people in his ward sicne he will tell you he lives in ward 8 which is ghetto

by Jerome on Sep 8, 2011 2:08 pm  

Don't want to get into a racial debate here but can't we focus on the poor, the under educated people and the unemployed instead of talking about a particullar race/color?

by Vincent on Sep 8, 2011 2:11 pm  

"Do jobless citizens east of the Anacostia River need to riot, like in London, for us to see them?"

Yeah hippie liberals!

Encourage unemployed citizens to engage in criminal activity... that'll get employed people to want to help... put Ward 8 residents in jail.

by Anon on Sep 8, 2011 2:21 pm  

Obama's speech tonight is about creating jobs for qualified applicants around the country.

But the problem in DC isn't a lack of jobs. These neighborhoods are within easy commuting distance of the lowest unemployment areas in the nation. The problem is that most employers would rather have a vacancy then someone who lacks basic literacy and professional skills and/or can't pass a drug test. Led by an addict councilman who's proud of his dysfunctional ghetto and has spent decades serving as a barrier to education and assimilation, these kids don't stand a chance.

by Novanglus on Sep 8, 2011 2:26 pm  

Unemployment nationwide has been hovering above 9% for quite some time and doesn't look to be going anywhere. The working poor and the lowest tier of the middle-class has taken the brunt of that. The bottom line is that we as a country have decided that we don't care all that much about poor and working-class unemployment, at least not when balanced against things like even modest inflation.

As far as "the search for solutions" goes...what are you looking for exactly? Why not convene a special meeting of the Friends of the National Zoo so we can air our outrage and look for solutions? After all, that organization has just as much likelihood of moving the needle as the local DC government.

We might just as well get outraged and demand the DC Council do something about global climate change.

by oboe on Sep 8, 2011 2:32 pm  

"But the problem in DC isn't a lack of jobs. These neighborhoods are within easy commuting distance of the lowest unemployment areas in the nation. The problem is that most employers would rather have a vacancy then someone who lacks basic literacy and professional skills and/or can't pass a drug test. Led by an addict councilman who's proud of his dysfunctional ghetto and has spent decades serving as a barrier to education and assimilation, these kids don't stand a chance."

So true. The generations of poverty are such that unemployment in ward 8 has become a constant backdrop. It's not even news. That's why it's not reported on.

I think Walmart and the like are these people's best chance. These are the type of entry level jobs that can slowly allow a certain, less criminalized, perhaps somewhat educated segment of ward 8 to rise up out of unemployment. From there, they will gain some basic skills and hopefully be able to get a real education on go on to bigger things.

by Anonymous on Sep 8, 2011 2:36 pm  

The article perpetuates racial stereotypes, non-fact finding news reporting, non-root cause investigation, and simply treads the well trodden, pseudo-liberal north east hand wringing that, when it was in fashion 20 years ago, got us to where we are today. It's an intellectually vapid approach to problem solving. There isn't even an attempt to look at any causes other than the perpetuate the tired argument of "racism".

I'd say that indirectly advocating violence and destruction of property does a disservice to GGW and to any chance at a useful discussion.

by Goalie on Sep 8, 2011 2:40 pm  

I think a lot of people know about the unemployment divide, especially in this city. It was just the other day that there were protests across the river on the issue, covered by multiple news outlets.

The fact of the matter is that the skill set just isn't there. There are only so many unskilled positions in the world. It's just that simple. Training and education should be offered to all those who seek it, other than that...what's the issue? We are what we make of ourselves. If Wards 7 and 8 want to keep Barry around and get rid of Rhee, then that's what the rest of us are stuck with. They get what they want...should we be forcing them to accept better schools and a higher quality of life?

by jag on Sep 8, 2011 2:46 pm  

Let's be clear about one thing. This is not so much about race as it is about socio economic status.

I know many professional black people that live in DC and have better jobs and more educated than a lot of white people. But they don't live in ward 8.

For whatever reason, ward 8 has a large ghetto class black population. Just like parts of the south and midwest have a large impoverished white population.

by Anonymous on Sep 8, 2011 2:47 pm  

High Black unemployment was a Economic Development policy choice made by the Williams Admin. Policies which continued under Fenty. The gamble was simple, these populations would have their neighborhood gentrified before any concentrated social back lash would occur. We'll see.

by W Jordan on Sep 8, 2011 2:49 pm  

@Goalie. Thanks.

CityMarket at O/Clark Construction should have jobs and training programs available for local workers, let our brothers and sisters in Ward 8 know. Shaw is just a short Metro and/or bike ride away. The City and DOES are doing a catastrophic "job" at connecting local workers with the jobs that are well within their reach. Marriott and CityCenter jobs are coming also. service jobs don't require great advanced skills other than the right attitude.

Schools like KIPP are actively doing their part to raise the educational achievements of local students so they don't end up like some adults currently who aren't positioned for today's and tomorrow's jobs.

by CCCA Prez on Sep 8, 2011 2:52 pm  

"High Black unemployment was a Economic Development policy choice made by the Williams Admin. Policies which continued under Fenty. The gamble was simple, these populations would have their neighborhood gentrified before any concentrated social back lash would occur. We'll see."

Can you blame them? There are many black people that have managed to get an education and make something of themselves. Meanwhile you have this ghetto class that perpetuates in ignorance and poverty and elects buffoons like Marion Barry.

To Williams, Fenty, and the educated black class, they are probably tired of all the ghetto blacks whining and feeling entitled. Quicker to gentrify them to PG county than to try and help those that don't want help.

by Anonymous on Sep 8, 2011 2:54 pm  

One last observation: the Fed has a two-part mandate. First they're supposed to control inflation. They've set a target of around 2%. Depending on how you measure it, we're either at or significantly below 2%.

Meanwhile the second part of the Fed's mandate is to achieve full employment. Right now we're at 9%. Does anyone out there think for a moment that were we looking at 3% unemployment and 9% inflation, the Fed wouldn't be doing everything it could to flip those numbers?

Anyway, that's what you get when you have a de facto oligarchy running the country: policies that would put the Guilded Era to shame, and a party comprised mostly of poor populist rural folk cheering them on.

Anyway, maybe I'm being too pessimistic, and Gray and Kwame Brown really can fix things.

by oboe on Sep 8, 2011 3:00 pm  

@jag, If Wards 7 and 8 want to keep Barry around and get rid of Rhee, then that's what the rest of us are stuck with. They get what they want.

Ward 7's councilmember is Yvette Alexander. Everything EOTR is not run by Marion Barry. According to the election results, Wards 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 "got rid of rhee." Let's be clear on that and stop perpetuating an obvious myth.

For whatever reason, ward 8 has a large ghetto class black population. Just like parts of the south and midwest ave a large impoverished white population.

by HogWash on Sep 8, 2011 3:04 pm  

@W Jordan:

High Black unemployment was a Economic Development policy choice made by the Williams Admin.

Fine, so having made that incendiary charge, you'll surely feel obligated to explain how different policies would have headed off the current unemployment rate. Presumably hiring a few more thousand employees at the DMV while freeing up money by forcing police officers to buy tires for their patrol cars. Worked fine in the past.

Funny, I miss the thought of those days a lot more than I miss the reality...

by oboe on Sep 8, 2011 3:05 pm  

"There isn't even an attempt to look at any causes other than the perpetuate the tired argument of 'racism'."

Goalie's right. The grocery stores and fast food places in my neighborhood are staffed by black kids from ward 8 and inner PG -- the ones who can get out of bed, take a bus to Arlington, pass a drug test, stock shelves/assemble tacos, operate a cash register and smile at a customer. The employers hired them for those basic skills, and don't care if they have dark skin and dress/talk like they're from the "ghetto". They have openings for more, but aren't getting enough applicants with those minimal qualifications.

The real racial issue is internal to the community: attitudes that mock education and promote self-segregation and victimhood; criminal lifestyles passed down from fathers to sons; kids raised by their grandmothers and aunts because dad's in jail and mom's working the street. They don't need riots, they need role models and functioning schools.

by Novanglus on Sep 8, 2011 3:07 pm  

@W Jordan

That's funny because there was a lot of Black unemployment before the Williams administration. Many cities have gentrified(and improved) from the inside out, meaning starting from the CBD and expanding outwards. To call it a policy choice connotes some sinister meaning, which I disagree with. It's not talked about much because it's been this way for a while, since before Williams, and when you actually want to address it, the discussion gets poisoned. At some point, people who are fortunate enough to have a good living and want to help become jaded.

by Vik on Sep 8, 2011 3:08 pm  

well trodden, pseudo-liberal north east hand wringing that, when it was in fashion 20 years ago, got us to where we are today.

Wait, pseudo-liberal northeast hand wringing back in 1990 and 1991 caused our current problems? Ward 8 and DC in general are in much better condition now than in 1990-1991. If any pseudo-liberal northeast hand wringing was going on that resulted in policymaking for DC, it can be regarded as nothing but an unqualified success for the district.

by JustMe on Sep 8, 2011 3:08 pm  

The article perpetuates racial stereotypes, non-fact finding news reporting, non-root cause investigation, and simply treads the well trodden, pseudo-liberal north east hand wringing that, when it was in fashion 20 years ago, got us to where we are today. It's an intellectually vapid approach to problem solving. There isn't even an attempt to look at any causes other than the perpetuate the tired argument of "racism".

I've written several articles on the causes of and solutions to crisis-level unemployment in DC.

by Ken Archer on Sep 8, 2011 3:08 pm  

One last thing, since I never miss the opportunity to mount my spavined cheval de bataille: EOTR unemployment, like ETOR poverty, is primarily a regional issue. It's not specifically nor even primarily a DC issue. As a DC resident, I feel a moral obligation to help folks EOTR to earn a minimum standard of living, but I don't feel my obligation is any greater than that of someone living in MD or VA.

by oboe on Sep 8, 2011 3:13 pm  

Ken, I don't believe that unemployment across the board has become invisible. I happen to believe that whenever the focus is on race (specifically blacks) it raises peoples ire.

The unemployed have been talked about ad nauseum and we're still trying to find out what to do. When you speak of this group in a collective sense, most people are understanding/sympathetic/empathetic etc. However, when you specify "black" our immediate reaction is to think baby momma, lazy, welfare, or as has been demonstrated here in DC..Marion Barry. That usually kills any real discussion.

Truthfully, there is only so much gov't can do for the unemployed irrespective of race. But I certainly do support my gov't trying.

by HogWash on Sep 8, 2011 3:19 pm  

"EOTR unemployment, like ETOR poverty, is primarily a regional issue. It's not specifically nor even primarily a DC issue"

Not sure what you mean by EOTR or ETOR. But there are plenty of unskilled job openings in the region. Besides creating those openings, there's very little that Virginia or MoCo can do to influence the educational systems or neighborhood culture in DC and PG.

by Novanglus on Sep 8, 2011 3:21 pm  

Ward 8's unemployment has been significantly higher than the unemployment rate for the city as a whole for at least the last 40 years, no? In 2000 the unemployment rate for Ward 8 was 22%. Its poverty rate has been above 25% for the last 30 years. This employment crisis in Ward 8 is not exactly news.

A combination of personal responsibility and effective governance is needed to bring these people into a more manageable employment circumstance. It is an uphill battle because a lot of jobs in this city require more skills and education than the typical Ward 8 resident has. But there are still plenty of job slots to be filled and an employer is not going to hire someone who is seen as lazy, ignorant, entitled, or uncaring. And certainly won't hire someone who does not meet the education or skill qualifications for the job, even if that person signs a petition stating that they want to be hired.

For Mayor Gray's part, much is to be done, but his programs -- faulty though they are -- place thousands of youngsters in jobs each year, virtually no questions asked, and is still expanding. I can't think of one positive thing councilman Barry has done to positively impact employment in his ward save for his proposal to put a an expiration on welfare payments. He has been totally unsuccessful in courting the private service sector to open up shop in Ward 8. The small and incremental change happening there is the result of fed-up residents demanding more from their neighborhoods, and unfortunately lacks any kind of top-down leadership initiative. Yet the residents keep putting that leadership into place.

by Scoot on Sep 8, 2011 3:22 pm  

@HogWash
"According to the election results, Wards 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 "got rid of rhee." Let's be clear on that and stop perpetuating an obvious myth."

You are way, way off. Ward 7 and 8 both voted overwhelmingly for Gray (over 82% for each). You could say the same for 5, to a degree (74%), but not 4 or 6 (where 55% voted Fenty). Either way, EOTR more than made up the difference and obviously got their way, so now we live with it.

You think Ward 7 wouldn't vote for Barry if they had the chance? If you say so.

by jag on Sep 8, 2011 3:22 pm  

Ken, I don't believe that unemployment across the board has become invisible. I happen to believe that whenever the focus is on race (specifically blacks) it raises peoples ire.

Are DC leaders talking about causes of and solutions to unemployment? Mayor Gray is, and I'm not sure I agree with his analysis as I've written in other articles. But the Council and the Post are not. Individual Councilmembers grandstand on creating jobs, and the Post writes about the political consequences of unemployment, but none of that is helpful.

Can we really say that if white unemployment in DC was 28% and white teenage unemployment in DC was 50%, that the Council would hold no hearings and the Post would write no articles on why it's happening? Of course not. If it raises people's ire, I would say that folks ire needs to start getting raised.

by Ken Archer on Sep 8, 2011 3:29 pm  

@CCCW Prez

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/11185/speeding-suburban-driving-to-dc-wont-fight-unemployment/#comment-111682

by freely on Sep 8, 2011 3:32 pm  

@Jag..according to the HREF="http://www.dcboee.org/election_info/election_results/results_2010.asp?electionid=4&rtype=w&prev=0&result_type=3">way off DCBOEE 2010 primary results

Ward 4
Fenty 39%/Gray 58%

Ward 5
F 23%/Gray 74?

Ward 6
F 55%/Gray43% (I was wrong about this one)
-------------------

EOTR (as well as the 6 other wards) also voted overwhelmingly for Fenty when he ran against Cropp. So I guess that means that EOTR voting patterns are only good when you agree w/the outcome.

No, I don't think Ward 7 would vote for Barry. Again, Barry does not run everything EOTR despite the poison pill you and others like you like to drop.

@Scoot, I can't think of one positive thing councilman Barry has done to positively impact employment in his ward save for his proposal to put a an expiration on welfare payments.

Can you think of anything he's done at all?

by HogWash on Sep 8, 2011 3:37 pm  

@Novanglus:

Not sure what you mean by EOTR or ETOR.

EOTR = "East of the River"
ETOR = "East the of River"

But there are plenty of unskilled job openings in the region. Besides creating those openings, there's very little that Virginia or MoCo can do to influence the educational systems or neighborhood culture in DC and PG.

Agree with the first part. The second is true only in the sense that "There's very little that Wards 1-4,6 can do to influence the educational systems or neighborhood culture in Wards 5, 7, and 8."

The effect of our arbitrary system of political boundaries and strict local control--along with historically racist policies at the national and legal level--have been to enforce just this type of thing. They are designed to decouple the upper middle-class and wealthy from their responsibilities to their poorer neighbors.

Frankly, there's nothing more disgusting than someone in a wealthy VA or MD suburb peering a quarter of a mile across the DC state line, weeping crocodile tears about how there's poverty in the shadow of the Capitol, and "Oh, when will those District residents learn to govern themselves?"

Or as Mr Archer put it in one of his linked pieces: "The answer is key to the city's ability to wash the moral stain of 30% of its children living in poverty."

I've got an idea: why not just declare all of the city's wards financially independent? Then the residents of DC's wealthier wards would be as unblemished of moral stain as the residents of Fairfax, McLean, and Bethesda.

by oboe on Sep 8, 2011 3:39 pm  

@KenCan we really say that if white unemployment in DC was 28% and white teenage unemployment in DC was 50%, that the Council would hold no hearings and the Post would write no articles on why it's happening?

That's my point in talking about how invoking race (specifically "black") into the equations turns many a deaf ear. I agree, if white unemployment numbers were that, w/o a doubt the Post would be over it as well as the council (even though most of them are black).

Hopefully I'm not accused of engaging in racial mau mau.

by HogWash on Sep 8, 2011 3:43 pm  

:)

by HogWash on Sep 8, 2011 3:44 pm  

A combination of personal responsibility and effective governance is needed to bring these people into a more manageable employment circumstance.

Ohhh it's on now!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQWbkVqZKeo

by oboe on Sep 8, 2011 3:46 pm  

Ken, you gotta have some sense of scale here. Surely you realize that there are some strong linkages to the national economy and things that are well beyond any single elected official's control - yet alone the mayor of DC.

Treating this issue like it's in isolation from the broader economic malaise we're in is a severe misdiagnosis destined to produce an incorrect remedy.

by Alex B. on Sep 8, 2011 3:47 pm  

@HogWash
I think you're mistaking me for someone who voted for Fenty the first time around. Anyways, I don't understand what you're taking issue with, EOTR voted overwhelmingly to get rid of Rhee, they got what they wanted. I don't think I should be able to force my will on EOTR, so I question what the author expects us all to do - force indigent people to accept reforms they don't want? Anyone who thinks that's a legit answer to this issue is truly arrogant. I say offer education and training to whoever wants it, other than that I don't understand what anyone reasonably wants society to do about it. It's not newsworthy that unskilled workers don't find work.

by jag on Sep 8, 2011 3:52 pm  

@HogWash,

That's my point in talking about how invoking race (specifically "black") into the equations turns many a deaf ear. I agree, if white unemployment numbers were that, w/o a doubt the Post would be over it as well as the council (even though most of them are black).

But we aren't talking about unemployment on the national level either--and that's eye-poppingly high. As far as the national media and political class goes, it's a non-issue. The poor have no voice, black or white, and so long as middle-class employment stays at a reasonable level, the average American will simply do what they always do: blame the victim.

If middle-class unemployment were at 9% (forget 28%) it would be a national crisis. As it is, unemployed poor urban and rural people don't raise an eyebrow because we *expect* poor urban and rural people to be unemployed. It's part of our national story.

by oboe on Sep 8, 2011 3:53 pm  

@Alex B: In the sense that EOTR's unemployment has always been double the national average and triple the region, then it will rise and fall with those. But I think we still have to deal with the disparity issue somehow.

@oboe: "why not just declare all of the city's wards financially independent?..."
I'd go the other way. Shrink DC's boundaries to the Anacostia, Potomac, Rock Creek and Florida Avenue, and return the rest to Maryland, creating 3-4 new cities (and re-merging others like Chevy Chase and Takoma). Some areas would thrive like never before, and some would need receivership via Annapolis, but all would be better off.

by Novanglus on Sep 8, 2011 3:57 pm  

The Williams admin had the resources available to it begin to address the problem in a significant way. And basically chose not to act in any significant way. Basically the 100K new resident policy was structured to build housing and not to seek to balance housing growth with industry growth. Even during the construction boom did not enforce first source in fact looked the other way and while industry focused in imported foreign labor. As well while there was plenty of time to build one, chose not to build or to support the needed training infrastructure. Benign neglect combined with the prison industrialism complex growth was the primary policy. I know this seems like I am throwing bombs, but high black unemployment is necessary for gentrification and Rhee-form type school efforts.

In many case resources which should have gone to help address the problem went to bailout developers like Donatelli Development.

William

by W Jordan on Sep 8, 2011 3:58 pm  

Shrink DC's boundaries to the Anacostia, Potomac, Rock Creek and Florida Avenue, and return the rest to Maryland, creating 3-4 new cities (and re-merging others like Chevy Chase and Takoma). Some areas would thrive like never before, and some would need receivership via Annapolis, but all would be better off.

Obviously that won't happen because--as you point out, Maryland would eat the lion's share of the poverty. What's more likely to happen is that the gentrification that's been underway since the Fair Housing Act passed will continue, and poverty as a share of total DC population will become much more manageable.

by oboe on Sep 8, 2011 4:03 pm  

"...Maryland would eat the lion's share of the poverty. What's more likely to happen is that the gentrification..."

With gentrification, Maryland would still get the poverty through migration to PG. With retrocession, at least they'd get the land along with it.

by Novanglus on Sep 8, 2011 4:23 pm  

A couple of comments: First, regardless of the official rate unemployment in Ward 8 isn't above 25 percent, it's more like 20 percent. I've blogged about this previously . In fact, Ward 7 has higher unemployment than Ward 7 due to the demographic changes that have occurred in those two wards since 2000. That doesn’t mean that 20 percent isn’t a horrible statistic, nor should we ignore the fact that lots of potential workers have dropped out of the labor force and aren’t included in these statistics.
Second, while the Post may not have covered the topic recently, they’re not the only game in town. WAMU aired an interview with me on this exact topic just last Friday.

by Benjamin Orr on Sep 8, 2011 5:02 pm  

For some reason my links were dropped:
My blog post: http://www.dcfpi.org/unemployment-in-ward-8-is-high-but-not-worst-in-the-nation-or-even-the-district
WAMU interview: http://wamu.org/programs/metro_connection/11/09/02/looking_for_work_in_washington.php

by Benjamin Orr on Sep 8, 2011 5:03 pm  

Benjamin -- the ACS has its own reporting issues, of which I'm sure you're aware. Likely, the actual unemployment in Ward 8 is probably higher than either the census or the ACS data.

by Scoot on Sep 8, 2011 5:24 pm  

@Benjamin Orr,

I completely agree with both your points, and you have been a leader when it comes to analyzing the causes of unemployment in DC. I would love to see a Council hearing with you, the Fiscal Policy Institute and others challenging the Councilmembers on the causes of and solutions to crisis unemployment.

For those who haven't heard the WAMU interviews with Orr, here is a recent one.

by Ken Archer on Sep 8, 2011 5:48 pm  

@JustMe

You must be living in a strange world that I don't live in. I'm pretty sure the black lower classes are as poor today as they were 20 years ago. In most ways their quality of life has deteriorated (if you subtract out the violence from crack). Pointing to DC being wealthier is not a function of anything anyone "did" for DC other than Sharon Pratt running DC into bankruptcy, Congress taking over and wealthy white 20 year olds moving back to DC. Which, while it's good for "the city" financially, stresses the black underclass. So it's a value judgement as to whether that's better, but it certainly wasn't anything anyone in power "did". It wasn't a program.

I don't think anything's been done in 30 years to actually address poverty in the black lower classes. They had a mild rise under Clinton because EVERYTHING got better under Clinton, until it collapsed. Nothing in particular was done for them, especially not in DC. Similarly nothing has been done useful has been done for the black lower class by any DC politician. It's curious that we've had 30+ years of AA leadership and nothing's ever been done to address AA poverty. Blaming white people, or white institutions (nice dig at the Post Ken Archer) is misguided, untrue and a red herring argument. The city's AA population has been in charge of it's own destiny and they made bad long term decisions.

So my statement stands: the only thing that's been "done" is a lot of hand wringing, a lot of ink spilled, and nothing substantive. Why? I think nothing because the city's AA leadership, with strong southern roots and a strong taste of Jim Crow, was hesitant to criticize ANY behavior whatsoever. It was the days of milk and honey and people who'd never had a dime in their lives, living like millionaires. No one wanted to stop the party. No we live with the repercussions of no one ever saying "No".

by goalie on Sep 8, 2011 5:49 pm  

I was expecting part of the solution to be related to not allowing Georgetown University to expand.

Until you change the culture, you won't be able to have any affect on poverty rates. Instead, we dance around the issue of multi-generational dysfunctional culture b/c we don't want to be judgmental about teens having multiple kids and baby daddies, incarceration rates, seeking an education being "acting white", and lack of role models. Solutions? Higher taxes to pay for more failed social welfare programs that are based more on political connections and grant-writing abilities than actual performance measurements.

by Fritz on Sep 8, 2011 6:36 pm  

" Solutions? Higher taxes to pay for more failed social welfare programs that are based more on political connections and grant-writing abilities than actual performance measurements."
..and more likely to fund strip clubs than work centers.

by Novanglus on Sep 8, 2011 7:11 pm  

Thanks, Ken. It's a hard concept to gain traction on. I still see folks quoting that unfortunate Bloomberg story, including CM Barry.

Scoot, you are of course correct. Also, the last thing I want people to take from my comments is that I'm somehow trying to diminish the scope of the problem. I'm just trying to improve our measurement of it.

Something that wasn't very clear in my previous blog post was that there are two problems: the formula used to calculate ward unemployment, and data inputs for the formula. I only addressed the inputs problem, by using more recent data than the District does.

The formula (the census share method; essentially applying Census ratios to BLS data) has all sorts of problems. For one thing, Census and BLS define unemployment differently. For another, the Census figures are one point in time, whereas the BLS figures are new every month. I'm probably forgetting some issues, but it's been a long day. Unfortunately, there aren't good, cheap tools out there to measure small area unemployment in DC, so we use what we have.

Anybody want to pay for a monthly telephone survey of 500 households in every ward?

by Benjamin Orr on Sep 8, 2011 8:38 pm  

It's been this way a very long time. It's not recent. Maybe it's just that now that the job situation is particularly acute across the board, but it's just been the way for a long time - discrimination. Lots of area employers of course are not local, but national or regional. They themselves are not from here, and they don't understand or relate to locals (black or white, I guess, but let's face it: mostly black), and have over the years favored the (white) people from out of state who went to University of Michigan or some such, and just arrived in DC. This is not new. Here, I speak of office-type jobs.

I'm not going to necessarily disagree with the points people make about not sleeping late and expecting a job. And I only occasionally see self-reflection about that. But, I think it kind of goes beyond that.

If middle-class unemployment were at 9% (forget 28%) it would be a national crisis. As it is, unemployed poor urban and rural people don't raise an eyebrow because we *expect* poor urban and rural people to be unemployed. It's part of our national story.

by oboe on Sep 8, 2011 3:53 pm

Oboe, one, I would say it IS a national crisis. Two I agree with the last two sentences.

by Jazzy on Sep 8, 2011 8:39 pm  

One further clarification of my earlier comment: when I say that the unemployment rate in Ward 8 is lower than what the District says it is, I mean using the U-3 (official BLS unemployment rate on the table in the link below) definition, which does not include discouraged workers who've left the labor market, or folks who are underemployed. If one were to come up with a Ward 7 or 8 unemployment rate that included those groups, it would obviouisly be much higher (see U-4 through U-6). I'm sure most people interested in this topic already knew that, but it never hurts to clarify.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

by Benjamin Orr on Sep 8, 2011 8:46 pm  

Can we really say that if white unemployment in DC was 28% and white teenage unemployment in DC was 50%, that the Council would hold no hearings and the Post would write no articles on why it's happening?

by Ken Archer on Sep 8, 2011 3:29 pm

No on the teenagers part. The Council would not hold those hearings. How many white teens ARE there in DC?

by Jazzy on Sep 8, 2011 9:00 pm  

If you do not have access to a computer, you don't get to apply for the jobs! There is NO MORE walking in with your resume in hand, eyeball to eyeball interviews. The HR Departments are in another state, THEY make the hiring decisions instead of the Manager of the business. It seems if you have a DC address you are automatically passed over! I have far beyond basic skills, over 20 years of experience, advanced computer skills, I have done tax preparation, managed small retail businesses and a willingness to "start in a entry level position with a entry level salary". There is not enough computer access and no commitment to hire DC residents by DC businesses, our money is going to the suburbs!

by joan on Sep 9, 2011 4:35 am  

@Joan,

Lack of computer access is hardly a problem. Every DC library has what, half a dozen or more internet connected computers sitting there for use. I've walked into the SW Metro Library, Tenley library and Shaw library multiple times during the middle of day and afternoons the past 2 weeks and seen tables of unused computers ready for people to do job searchs. We haven't even talked about the DOES resources.

And as far as skills and experience go, DC needs a vocabulary all its own.

While your experience might allow you to be a shoo in anywhere else, DC is a town of hyper competitive multidegreed people all vying for the same jobs. A town where a bachelors degree is bascially no more valuable than a highschool diploma.

I responded to an RFP a couple months ago that actually mandated that each member of the management team assigned to the project all have the following qualifications on top of the actual work experience required:

Professional Engineering Certification (PE's)
PMP and/or Sigma Certification
LEED certification
CEM (Certified Energy Manager)

Extra credit given to proposals with management teams who also held MBA's and big 4 consulting experience.

I mean, for the love of Christ. In my line of work, someone or a team of people with the above experience and qualififcations 10 years ago would have had their personal pick of any job or assignment in the world, let alone DC. Now its common place.

The point is, DC has the highest concentration of folks with advanced degrees in the nation and a lot of them are looking for work too.

by freely on Sep 9, 2011 9:10 am  

If you do not have access to a computer, you don't get to apply for the jobs! There is NO MORE walking in with your resume in hand, eyeball to eyeball interviews.

Are we still talking about the impoverished residents of Ward 8? Sadly I don't think they have resumes and are unlikely to be applying to jobs that would require computer access, because they are largely uneducated and lack basic skills. The kind of jobs they can perform are ones where you can apply for on the spot, in person or often at a kiosk.

by Scoot on Sep 9, 2011 10:18 am  

Pass the drug test, show that you can actually do the job you are applying for, show up on time (every day of the workweek) stop getting into fights with coworkers and show some level of professionalism since thats what you are getting paid for and you might get/keep that job. Just saying.

by Just saying on Sep 9, 2011 11:56 am  

Interesting article, my two cents. Many of the comments are fair and some what accurate. I run the hopeprojectdc.org - its a career training program for young adults EOTR. Most of the students arrived unskilled and without professional development. During the 8 month course we turn young people into world class entry level I.T. Professionals. They leave with several certifications, lots of hands on experience and a renewed self confidence, that they can compete in the skills based economy. Most of the young people in Ward 8, have been trained to think that society owes them something, they truly believe that being poor is a ticket to an opportunity. So our training breaks down that attitude and builds young people back up to become self sufficient and independent. We are using the students community to our advantage. We have partnered with IT firms that have HUBZone contracts, most firms have a very hard time finding qualified IT talent that live in HUBZones. Our students have accepted offers from HUBZone firms with salaries as high as $40K, and they get bonuses to remain in their HUBZone. Most - not all of the unemployed in Ward 8 are unskilled. I even have a student with felony conviction land a IT position. I'm happy to speak with anyone interested in finding out more about the HOPE Project, because hope is real. BTW, Marion Barry refuses to meet with me, the other council members are aware of the program but haven't been willing to meet with us. Our third class starts Sept. 20th. BTW THIS ENTIRE PROGRAM IS VOLUNTEER, its run better than most well funded non-profits that offer career training. You know the names, I don't have to call them out.

by Ray Bell on Sep 9, 2011 12:35 pm  

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/gray-launches-citywide-jobs-initiative/2011/09/08/gIQAVuV1CK_story.html

by charlie on Sep 9, 2011 12:53 pm  

Close the University of District Columbia (UDC) and go back to the 2-year technical JUCOs that were there before. Better to have a job as a plumber, electrician, (a skill) than be another out-of-work useless 4-year liberal ahhhhhhhhhhhrts grad.

by FJ on Sep 9, 2011 3:27 pm  

@FJ - you're out of date. There IS a two year/community college branch of UDC. It was created several years ago.

by Tina on Sep 9, 2011 3:33 pm  

FJ-check it out out. It offeres exactly what you think it should; trade skills. http://cc.udc.edu/workforce_development

by Tina on Sep 9, 2011 3:35 pm  

@Tina, chances are, FJ doesn't even live in DC. Explains the untimely request for something already implemented a couple of years ago.

by HogWash on Sep 9, 2011 3:52 pm  

...or FJ is just one of many who don't think about UDC other than to disparage it in a knee-jerk ignorant manner w/ a complete dearth of knowledge or even the tiniest bit of curiousity of who the student body is, what programs it offers and what niche it fills in educating the community. Kind of how FJ disparages a traditional liberal arts education. FJ probably thinks that has something to with political affiliation.

by Tina on Sep 9, 2011 4:04 pm  

Tina,

C'mon now...UDC is perhaps the most ineffecetive waste of education money this side of the Mississippi. The 6 year graduation rate is a whopping 19%. UDC is probably the only "higher learning" institution with a lower graduation rate than the DC public sschools.

Add on top of that, that most of their programs have fallen in and out of accreditation the past 20 years, a degree from UDC is literally not worth the paper it is printed on.

Literally, UDC doesn't even rank among other universities or community colleges. It is literally worse than dead last.

Of the ~5,000 students currently enrolled in UDC, only 950 will leave with a "degree".

Tuition for a full time undergrad at UDC costs just over $5K a year, $7K a year for a full time grad student. DC taxpayers give (and it is in this years budget as well) 50 million a year to suppliment UDC (this doesn't include the tens of millions of dollars we give them in free land and facilities).

Thats a per student subsidy of $10,000 per year, when it only costs $7K for a full time grad students tuition, which the students themselves are ALREADY paying.

Look at it this way, with the 19% graduation rate, the DC taxpayers are paying $210K per graduating student, PER YEAR!

Paying full price to go to Harvard would be cheap in comparison, and oh...you would be getting a degree from Harvard.

UDC is part of the problem, it isn't the solution.

by freely on Sep 9, 2011 4:37 pm  

..yeah, you and FJ are cut from the same cloth. Got enough hate yet? Do you know anyone personally who went to or goes to UDC? Didn't think so. Your spectacularly predictable knee-jerk reaction speaks volumes about your ignorance and/or lack of direct experience with UDC. Thousands of people benefit from UDC, and it is the solution for thousands of people, your uninformed hatred not withstanding.

by Tina on Sep 9, 2011 4:44 pm  

@tina, on top of that. A degree from UDC means much more once you travel "outside" of DC because when that happens, it becomes as good a degree as from some unknown university in some other city.

UDC or Frostburg State

If you're applying for a position in Florida, how much does it matter when they've likely never heard of neither.

by HogWash on Sep 9, 2011 5:33 pm  

@Hogwash -thats right. And even in this area intelligent people know that the quality of an education depends heavily on the student no matter what school they go/went to. "Great" schools everywhere have bad teachers and bad students. Also, some information is the same no matter what school you were in when you learned it, e.g. being able to figure out the molarity of a solution or the rate of change in a reaction, and intelligent people recognize that.

One advantage of UDC is the classes are small and, in my experience there are no TAs so all contact is with a PhD with years of experience who is more interested in teaching than in pursuing research, or, at least as interested in teaching as in pursuing research. I earned a post-grad degree at a fancy-schmancy private U in DC where many classes were bigger, >70 students vs. 22-30, (i never had a class that big at UDC) often taught by TAs, the prof was not as available as I had come to expect and certainly the prof didn't know his/her students as individuals as well and often it was pretty clear the prof was far more interested in his/her research than in helping students. Teaching was a necessary evil. UDC by contrast is a teaching U. I was as well prepared for grad school as my more traditional peers. My grad gpa is 3.5. A lot better than George Bush's. I had some blah profs at UDC but even then the classes were small. UDC also has some fantastic adjuncts who are professionals at places like NIH and are tired of just doing research and want to teach! Even when the admin of the school was bad-no one denies there have been problems in the admin- most of my teachers were great. Administrators don't teach classes.

freelys stats are misconstrued and interpreted wrongly b/c of all the independent variables not accounted for. E.G. those stats include students who were enrolled in the programs that are now covered exclusively by UDC-CC (those are not baccalaureate degree granting programs), and students enrolled in UDCs 4 yr degree programs are disproportionately non-traditional, which means they usually take one course/semester. Doing it that way takes longer than 6 years to finish. I wonder where freely went to college? It seems they didn't teach critical thinking and foster inquisitiveness. Or maybe we shouldn't blame the school since we know education is dependent on the student.

I am deeply grateful that UDC was available to me as a 4 yr school that was affordable, easily accessible in DC and knew how to accommodate non-traditional students. I was very impressed by my classmates, many of whom were persevering over greater obstacles than I to get an education, even one course per semester. Certainly on average their perseverance was greater than that of a typical (traditional) full-time undergrad anywhere else. I'm a fierce defender of UDC b/c of the opportunity it gave me and the great professors I had. I know first hand how it enriches this city and the whole of greater DC and the important niche it fills. Fortunately city leaders know it too and thus UDC has broad support. So all the freelys and FJs can go cry in their beer over the fact that UDC is supported, and nurture their uninformed prejudice or restricted perspective of the world or whatever it is that defines their sense of self that fuels their hatred of UDC. This hatred is perennial yet every year students benefit from attending UDC whether they earn degrees or not, the freelys and FJs be damned.

by Tina on Sep 10, 2011 10:35 am  

@Freely:

I know a number of people who spent a couple of years at UDC getting credits at an affordable rate before transferring to "better" schools to get their degrees. Where do they count in your statistics? Are these graduates of other colleges UDC "droputs" because they finished their degrees somewhere else?

@ Archer:

Your bio lists you as CTO of a firm near Tyson's Corner. Please tell us how many unemployed Ward 8 residents you have hired, or are training to hire. If your answer is zero, maybe you ought to contact Ray Bell. And, if your answer is zero, maybe we should ask if Ward 8 black folks should riot outside your Georgetown home or Tyson's Corner jobsite to get your attention.

by Mike S. on Sep 10, 2011 11:04 am  

I've known people that attended UDC to get credits necessary for a job promotion or to then switch to a better college (all mid-career folks).

But, while I admire UDC alumni sticking up for their school, let's not kid ourselves - UDC has an AWFUL reputation. And personal anecdotes and pride is hardly good analysis.

UDC has ongoing issues with accreditation. They have a bloated faculty with lots of dead wood. They are spending a small fortune on federal lobbying with little to show for it (see last week's City Paper article). They have a university president who clearly enjoys expense accounts. And they have an internal war going on between UDC and the Community College. And their long-term stats on retention, graduation, and job placements are absolutely atrocious.

UDC may have some potential. But to compare it to Frostburg State or UMBD or UM Eastern Shore is ridiculous. I truly hope the COmmunity College program won't be snuffed out in budget fights w/Sessoms and that it can develop into a real option like MoCo and NoVa Community Colleges.

by Fritz on Sep 10, 2011 11:35 am  

Always loved this photo...

http://smriti.tumblr.com/post/1209668897/from-after-invisible-man-by-ralph-ellison-the

by InvisibleDC on Sep 10, 2011 4:54 pm  

@Ray Bell,
I like what organizations like yours does. Today young adults are more likely than not be computer intuitive and even though the group of people that you're targeting may be deficient in other skills, training them in practical skills for jobs that are in demand together with the possibility of a career path can help them overcome those deficient skills.

by Fitz on Sep 12, 2011 8:57 am