please please make the signs less ugly and smaller in the future

by guest on Oct 18, 2011 10:37 am  

Montgomery's system is terrible- no native android app, must register online beforehand.

by James on Oct 18, 2011 10:42 am  

It is pretty easy to use. The nice part is the time I used it I was able to start walking while on the phone to my destination when I had everything just about wrapped up. I guess there was a risk that the parking enforcment could have come by while I was still on the phone but I did wait until I was mostly done before I did it.

by Canaan on Oct 18, 2011 10:52 am  

The easiest, and most equitable, system would of course be '2 hrs free parking in this zone'. Stay a minute longer, you get a ticket. And if your going somewhere that'll require you staying longer in that zone? Then pay for off street parking. That would be simple to implement and enforce and not give as much of an advantage to people who can 'buy their way' around the challenges of limited parking in a zone. Everyone would then be able to run those errands we all need to run AND there'd be plenty of available parking ... AND you wouldn't need to be independently wealthy to use the system ... as is occuring with the ever increasing rates which are required in order to reserve the parking spaces for those with the most means.

by Lance on Oct 18, 2011 10:56 am  

I downloaded the app and was disappointed to find that its structured around parking the same car every trip. I don't own a car, and use any combination of borrowed cars, zipcars, or other rentals when I do need to make an auto trip. A slight modification to the app making it easier to change the license plate and vehicle description on the app would be much appreciated.

by Will on Oct 18, 2011 10:58 am  

It is handy, but it's still stupid for governments to link themselves to a single company. In free-market supporting countries in Europe, the government just puts up signs with numbers, and then allows all interested companies to handle the payments. The companies get the numbers, locations and rates in an open source format, and are required to send back the car tags information in a similar open format, so that cities can process it and send it to the handheld of parking cops.

by Jasper on Oct 18, 2011 10:59 am  

Lance,

OMG! You are so wrong on this issue. The basics, when rationing scarce goods, you have three options, price, lottery, queue, or some combination of the three. What you propose leads to a combination of lottery and queue, which is the most inefficient. Price is the most efficient in nearly all situations, but to many it seems unfair. That's why the controversy over pricing things, but it is the most efficient by nearly any measure.

We've tried lottery and queue for the better part of a century, and the performance is poor. In places that have been doing price correctly, the results are great, but we have to deal with the griping.

by Will on Oct 18, 2011 11:02 am  

I agree with Lance! Clearly, making a public good free is BY FAR the best way to ration that scarce resource.

And since there are no alternatives to on-street parking (possible alternatives that obviously don't exist: private garages, parking validated by stores, taking metro or a bus, walking, or biking), we clearly shouldn't be asking people to pay a fee that would be less than the private benefit they would gain from using that public resource.

by Gray on Oct 18, 2011 11:13 am  

I'm surprised that if the whole thing is so smartphone-integrated there's no QR codes.

by Lucre on Oct 18, 2011 11:16 am  

Lance,

I'm sure the folks in Dupont and Georgetown (among other places) that complain about never being able to find spots in their residential 2-hour zones would love the idea of even more cars hovering/looping through the neighborhoods once the parking meters become more of the same.

One of many problems with your suggestion is that not only would it encourage more people to park, but it would encourage more people to linger in spots, eliminating some of the turnover that naturally happens when people don't want to pay for more time than they need at the meters.

I'm not well-off enough to not have to worry about price -- in fact, I often choose not to drive to certain locations because of the cost of parking meters.

But when I do find a metered space, it doesn't stop me from buying things or putting money into the economy that I wouldn't already be spending... it just encourages me to conduct that same amount of economic activity, but to do it faster.

by Jacques on Oct 18, 2011 11:30 am  

The MoCo system is pretty good. It is annoying to register online, but if you don't have quarters and haven't registered, you can get it done over the phone in about 5 minutes. After you're registered, it's just a matter of downloading the app (only for iPhone users apparently). If you don't have a smartphone, there is also a pay-by-phone option that takes about 90 seconds to 2 minutes. If I'm not mistaken, the Bethesda garages have QR codes that the app can scan as well.

by Omeed on Oct 18, 2011 11:33 am  

And let's remember that parking rates in DC are laughably low.

by Jasper on Oct 18, 2011 11:36 am  

Hmm. Maybe this "one goverment service" is easier to use because...it isn't a goverment service anymore.

I'm sure tax farmers would be far more efficient than your local goverment in terms of extracting revenue.

And I'm glad to hear DA admit using a multispace meter is pain.

by charlie on Oct 18, 2011 11:39 am  

Lance, I get your point. But, there are several factors involved in car ownership and the other modes of transportation as well. One of those is accessibility. I believe that if you choose to own a car you should also understand that there is a cost associated with it - including paid parking. Although I do think the current rates are too high, it still makes sense to charge for parking (even if 2 hours) if for no other reason than it may encourage people to get in and out.

Do we have that performance parking thing yet or is it just something we advocate for?

by HogWash on Oct 18, 2011 11:39 am  

I think I read elsewhere the app creator gets 37 cents or so from every payment? This is like the red-light cameras, where a private company gets a cut of what used to be 100% public revenue. Sounds like Jasper's comment re Europe's method would be helpful.

by Michael on Oct 18, 2011 11:42 am  

rip off. they charge you 35cents extra for each transaction! For one hour of parking thats a 15% surcharge.

will never use.

by postposter83 on Oct 18, 2011 11:45 am  

@Hogwash: Performance parking is on the books in Columbia Heights and in the ballpark district, but the implementation is currently in very preliminary stages. DDOT is trying to get the data collection right and has made a few changes to the rates but nothing approaching what San Francisco has done.

by Michael Perkins on Oct 18, 2011 11:49 am  

I agree with Will that's a pain if you use multiple cars. It seems like making it easier to change the license plate and vehicle description shouldn't be that hard.

by Kate W on Oct 18, 2011 11:50 am  

Used Parkmobile twice within a week several months ago.

First use: Perfect. Told all my friends about it. Loved the simplicity and comfort.

Second use: Came back to my car with a $25 dollar ticket on my windshield. Wait, what? It took Parkmobile over two weeks to just respond to my inquiry, and 47 days between my inquiry and dismissal of the ticket, during which my ticket amount doubled and I started to get nervous, despite that I had done everything right.

Either it was an honest mistake on the ticketing officer's part(broken computer, punched in a wrong number) or it's easier to just skip the cross-referencing of my license plate with Parkmobile and make the wager that a significant percentage of people will suck it up and pay the $25 to get it over with.

If my ticket had not been dismissed I would have had to pay $50 for the fine (Parkmobile told me not to pay it, so it doubled after the due date). I wonder if Parkmobile would have refunded the 4 or 5 dollars that I paid them?

by Milan on Oct 18, 2011 12:00 pm  

@Hogwash 'Although I do think the current rates are too high, it still makes sense to charge for parking (even if 2 hours) if for no other reason than it may encourage people to get in and out.'

I agree with you on this. And it did work well back when a quarter got you 15 mins or 30 mins. Like the 5c tax on bags, it was an incentive ... and not a barrier like the new higher rates are. By that I mean, everyone could afford 25c for 15 or 30 mins, but everyone knew that even for this small amount, it made sense not to stay any longer than required. Now at 7 1/2 minutes per quarter, not everyone can afford to park there even for quick errands. And that's not equitable when you're talking about a public good like a public street. People shouldn't be shut out from doing doing their business in DC just because they aren't wealthy, and preventing someone from parking their car does effectively that.

by Lance on Oct 18, 2011 12:00 pm  

As other commenters have pointed out, this system does have its problems, but I think that most of us can agree that it's a nice option to have in addition to quarters for those of us who would like to use it. However, according to David's description, it sounds like you have to have a smartphone to use the service, which still makes this useless to the majority of the population. Hopefully some upgrades can be made to allow people to call in, similar to how Omeed describes Montgomery County's system.

For what it's worth, the best parking system I've seen was in both Seattle and Portland. Both cities have machines that accept coins, bills, and cards and print out a parking sticker for you to affix to the curbside window. The sticker has an expiration time on it and is good throughout the city, so that if you need to make trips to multiple neighborhoods you only have to pay for parking once.

by Ted on Oct 18, 2011 12:49 pm  

@Ted

You can also call their 800 number. The app is easier, but you can indeed do it with a dumbphone, or even a payphone if you can somehow manage to find one of those...

by andrew on Oct 18, 2011 12:57 pm  

Andrew, thanks for the update. I should have looked at the picture in the article first, I see the number on the bottom of the sign now. I wonder how many payphones are left in the city at this point.

by Ted on Oct 18, 2011 1:27 pm  

@Lance - Then take transit. Or bike. If you literally can't afford (rather than would just rather spend the money on the other things) the cost of parking, then car ownership probably isn't a good economic choice overall.

by Kate W on Oct 18, 2011 1:49 pm  

I rarely drive in D.C., but I used this same system on vacation in Santa Cruz, Calif. I like everything about it except that the first time you use it, it takes a while to download the app and register your car and everything. And I guess since I don't own a car, I'd agree with the comments that it should be easier to switch cars. And the fees isn't great, but it's pretty small, considering how much parking costs.

@Jasper: In this European model that you describe, how do the municipalities get the revenue?

@Lucre: I've thought about the QR codes, but really, they'd save very little, if any, time. All the signs need to display is the URL for downloading the app (13 or so characters, and you only need it once per customer) and the ID of the parking zone (5 characters). If a day comes when Parkmobile has very long IDs for parking zones, it might be necessary. Then again, remember that the system isn't ONLY for smartphones. You want to make it possible to call in as well.

@Milan: Did you bring that up with DDOT? Remember that this is a competitive contract, so if DDOT gets the idea that Parkmobile isn't working for them, they could cut them off.

by Tim on Oct 18, 2011 1:51 pm  

re: 35 cents transaction fee.

This is like the red-light cameras, where a private company gets a cut of what used to be 100% public revenue.

Wrong. This is like any other service that makes your life significantly better. I'd pay an extra *dollar* so as not to have to carry a sack of quarters around. The great thing is, if you want to do things the old, clumsy, ridiculously inconvenient way, well, knock yourself out.

Also, props to @Lance for his yeomanlike work in the role of Platonic straight-man on this one. Someone's got to ennumerate the "common sense" but solutions that are usually offered up by folks who've never really studied the issues. This format is much more engaging than a FAQ, or the like.

by oboe on Oct 18, 2011 1:58 pm  

@Tim: No, I didn't. Should have and will bring it up with DDOT. I want Parkmobile to work. Wonder how often my experience occurs, and where to find that kind of metric. Is it in DDOT's interest to publish error rates for a program like this?

by Milan on Oct 18, 2011 2:42 pm  

Like some previous commenters, I live in DC but I've used the MoCo system. I was able to register over the phone and didn't need to do so online - perhaps one of the previous posters was mistaken.

Like another poster, I'm annoyed at the transaction costs in the DC and MoCo systems. But I recognize that they do need to cover the costs of the new infrastructure. It's also not a huge cost.

by Weiwen on Oct 18, 2011 4:07 pm  

Montgomery County's system is annoying in that you have to register (I believe this can be done over the phone, but I did it over the internet). The website isn't great and the iphone app is really, really slow. That being said, it's several orders of magnitude better than carrying change. Luckily for me I rarely park in the city but the few times that I have since the District's system has been installed, it was too much effort to register on another system, install another iphone app, etc.

by Shahar Goldin on Oct 18, 2011 4:24 pm  

@ Tim: In this European model that you describe, how do the municipalities get the revenue?

Same way as DC does. From the operators. Governments just have standard contracts for the operators. As long as they get their parking money (up to €5/$6.85 per hour in Amsterdam), they don't care who they get it from.

They only difference is that in the US governments seem to force their citizens into a monopoly with a single company while in Europe governments allow the free market to do its thing. Different operators have different payment models. Some charge a per-transaction fee as Parkmobile does. Others charge a monthly fee, or a percentage of the parking fee.

I think that most operators work through texting - basically, you text the location + ON to some number when you start parking and the number + OFF when you leave. I am not sure what the status is of smartphone apps. Ask me in a month and a half again. Now I'm thinking about it, you could use Twitter as well...

Customers are free to choose which payment model and technology makes sense to them.

by Jasper on Oct 18, 2011 4:46 pm  

I'll chime in that I've had mixed results (fortunately no tix). Sometimes the app doesn't recognize the parking zone. There's absolutely no phone support -- if you call it just processes a transaction but does not resolve the underlying problem. If you call the DC support # on the meter, they act like you're from another planet and they disavow any knowledge about Parkmobile (then again, you could get a similar response if you just ask for the time or which direction points to the sky).

by anon on Oct 18, 2011 5:24 pm  

This is a pretty poor option without a smartphone. It took me over five minutes on the phone with a robot to pay for a parking spot the first time I used it. I was pretty unhappy to have to pay 35 cents for that convenience. The pay and display machine would have taken me just a minute and no fee, but the card reader was broken. Quarters, if I carried them, would have been even faster.

by peter on Oct 18, 2011 5:54 pm  

If you get to a machine with a broken card reader, just call 311 and obtain a confirmation code for reporting a broken meter. Then put the confirmation code on the dash. Worked for me at a baseball game once and saved me $30.

by Michael Perkins on Oct 18, 2011 8:06 pm  

The MoCo app is a much cleaner/more attractive app, at least on the iPhone.

MoCo's system charges you the max for that meter, then when you leave you tell it you're done & it refunds the difference.

In DC you have to extend if you under-estimate the time you need, and you have to pay a fee to the private company all over again.

MoCo's app shows a big countdown timer - after you see this you realize that it's bizarre that DC's app doesn't.

by Jay on Oct 19, 2011 9:30 am  

The pay by phone and multispace system may be easier (but I still have a big beef with the credit card slots) but it definetly is NOT 100% error proof when you consider the human factor -- the enforcement officer factor. Just last night I got a $25 citation AFTER using the Pay By Phone system. My citation was for failure to display the multispace ticket -- I used the phone system. That's not the only one. I've gotten $50 in tickets in the past 3 weeks because of parking enforcement officers not reading their own signs.

The systems may be better but how about the folks monitoring the system?

P.S. DC DOT was kind enough to apologize for the mistakes and basically told me my only resource was to fight the tickets. :(

My post:
http://www.congressheightsontherise.com/2011/10/parking-enforcement-you-have-to-do.html

by The Advoc8te on Oct 19, 2011 12:31 pm  

@Lance
uhh... inflation. Today's $ is worth literally half of what it was in 1987 and half again what it was worth in 1976. In other words the quarter in your pocket today is only worth a quarter of 1976 quarter. ;)

If you were parking for a half hour with for just 25 cents in 1976 than that is the exact same price as parking for 7.5 minutes on 25 cents today. INFLATION!

Inflation has made our coins almost totally worthless. In 1905 a penny, the smallest coin, had about the buying power of today's quarter which is still the largest coin in common usage. People still don't want to get rid of the penny, yet people at the beginning of the 20th century seemed to get through life fine without 1/25 of a cent coins. Maybe if our coinage system wasn't broken by inflation we wouldn't need all these fancy machines so much. A quarter in 1905 had more buying power than a $5 bill today. A roll of those might last you a while.

I don't know why we don't get rid of everything less than a quarter. Maybe people are just afraid to admit that bankers have been slowly stealing the money right out of our pockets for a hundred years.

by Doug on Oct 22, 2011 6:32 pm