I was in the area of the Convention Center protest on Friday. I didn't witness the incidents, but there was a heavy police presence and a lot of pissed off motorists, owing to the fact that the protesters were blocking traffic on a Friday night. It wouldn't surprise me if some people thought a hit and run was "street justice," but hopefully there will be some real justice too.

by aaa on Nov 7, 2011 9:13 am • link • report

I'm a fan of the purple line and think it is generally a smart thing, but I think claiming it will be 8.5 minutes from the Silver Spring Metro Station to the Bethesda metro station seems a little disingenuous.

Its 4.8 miles with 3 stops in between. Figure you lose 1 minute at each of those stops minimum, what you are really saying is that you are doing that trip in 5.5 minutes, which is what...50-55 mph which seems a little fast.

As far as the occupy folks go, it looks like Darwinism in action. Every video I've seen posted about it, every eye witness account I've heard (not given by a protester) shows us who was clearly in the wrong. People literally running in front of cars, jumping on them. Trying to take control of the street by illegally blocking it. I applaud the MPD and admittedly chuckled when I learned that the folks who got hit, also were given tickets.

Heck, even the girl they interviewed on TV last night led with this "I won't stand here and pretend to know whether the light was green or red...". If you purposfully step in front of a car who has a clear green and get it, it is unfortunate, but not intentional.

These folks are giving legitimate protestors and their causes everywhere a bad name.

by freely on Nov 7, 2011 9:20 am • link • report

Happy to see that "DC" in "DC Democrats" stands for "District Communist".

by Jasper on Nov 7, 2011 9:32 am • link • report

So basically if people are in the street its ok to go ahead because you have a green and dammit those people don't have a permit so why should I listen to their grievances when 7th street is my only option to head north anywhere in DC.

Drivers, if people are out in the street then it behooves you to find a different way home.

by Canaan on Nov 7, 2011 9:42 am • link • report

@freely

I don't think it's clear at all that the police could allow someone to drive through a crowd of people who the police are allowing to assemble in the street, and then give jaywalking tickets to the people who were hit (again, after the police were allowing these people to be in the street).

If a car got into the closed streets around the Verizon Center after a Caps game (via an alley or something) and ran people down would that be OK too?

by MLD on Nov 7, 2011 9:47 am • link • report

@freely

Your numbers are a bit off. It's more like 4.2 miles, not 4.8. Plus, I also think that 1 minute lost time due to station dwell is a bit much. This is fully grade-separated ROW at this point. So, you're talking about an average speed (including dwell time) of ~30 mph, not 50-55. LRVs are easily capable of 55 mph operation. With only one stop per mile and full grade separation, the vehicles would have plenty of time to accelerate and zip right along.

by Alex B. on Nov 7, 2011 9:51 am • link • report

re: NRA & Wells:

I don't mean to insult anyone who reads "NRA Magazine", but...

By saying he doesn't own a car because autos are bad for the planet, Washington, D.C. Councilman Tommy Wells set himself up for this irony: It seems he was driving his wife's Toyota Prius while on vacation in Minnesota when a deer ran in front of him.

This is about the stupidest thing I've ever read.

Wells says he doesn't own a car for environmental reasons, but it turns out he was driving his wife's car and hit a deer.

OH THE IRONY!!!

Furthermore:

Though some might buy a bigger car...after such a close call, Wells...said he isn't going to purchase a bigger car for his wife, but he'll likely resume driving it (after she buys a new one.)

I can't imagine why even some erstwhile conservatives say their movement has entered a phase of total intellectual bankruptcy.

by oboe on Nov 7, 2011 10:05 am • link • report

Aside from the "creeping Bullworthism" wafting in the background, I thought the gentrification piece was relatively accurate.

by oboe on Nov 7, 2011 10:12 am • link • report

@Alex,

I am sure they are "capable", but it isn't realistic. Like I said, I think the Purple line is a good idea, I just think it is generally a poor idea to to say unrealistic things like this because when people don't ever get from Silver Spring to Bethesda in the advertised 8.5 minutes, it will create cannon fodder for the next project.

And if the thing is indeed going 55-60mph, you have to figure in decelleration time, time stationary at the platform, and acceleration time. You will indeed lose a minimum of a minute per station with all the above.

@MLD,

Thats the point. The police WEREN'T allowing the folks to assemble in the street. The Occupy folks were forcefully taking it and the police were attempting to get them under control.

Listen, I am not advocating drivers mowing down people simply because they are in the street, but a sense of personal responsibility has to take effect here.

If I was at a shooting range and someone decided to run in front of my target as I was shooting to protest "insert cause here" and got shot, it would be hard to feel bad for them.

The occupy folks were out for blookd from the Koch rally. They were pretty much unhinged the entire time they were down there and looking for trouble. What gives any of them the right to shut down anything illegally and forcefully intimidate people who aren't involved and whose only crime is that they want to get home? It isn't like this little sit in was planned or announced and people knew to avoid the area.

Personal responsibility...get some

by freely on Nov 7, 2011 10:36 am • link • report

@freely

This isn't some advocate's report, this is what the engineers say is possible. Suffice it to say that they are taking accel/deccel time, station dwell time, etc. into account.

My point is this - 4.2 miles in 8.5 minutes is an average speed of ~30 mph.

For comparison, the Red Line's full length of 31.9 miles, end to end, is scheduled for a run of 63 minutes from Shady Grove to Glenmont. Average speed: 30.3 mph.

Purple line from Bethesda to SS: 4.2 miles, 8.5 minutes. Average speed: 29.64 minutes.

Given that this part of the Purple Line will function just like Metro (full grade separation, wide station spacing), there's no reason to think you wouldn't achieve the same sorts of service speeds. This is perfectly achievable. Baltimore's LRT vehicles have a top speed of 60mph or so.

I agree, it's not good to raise unrealistic expectations. I don't know why you think this is an unrealistic expectation, however.

by Alex B. on Nov 7, 2011 10:47 am • link • report

I totally agree that the Occupy protesters picked a terrible way to do a protest, but I don't think that has any bearing on the collision itself. It seems like the key question is whether the protesters jumped in front of a moving car (as the driver is claiming) or whether they were standing in the road and the car accelerated into them (as the protesters are claiming). The police are taking the driver's side, but given the typical DC police officer's strong pro-car bias, I don't trust the police on car-pedestrian issues. And given that two of the protesters who were hit were middle-aged women (one of whom is pregnant), I have some doubts about the claim that they threw themselves in front of the car.

by Rob on Nov 7, 2011 11:00 am • link • report

@deer collision -- what surprises me is that Mr Wells had to go all the way to Minnesota to hit one. I see them all the time off I295, next to the DC water sewage plant. They are a safety issue, and somebody is going to get hurt.

by goldfish on Nov 7, 2011 11:06 am • link • report

Seems a case of 'Protestors Behaving Badly'. Next time get a permit so that neither police nor drivers are caught unaware.

by Pelham1861 on Nov 7, 2011 11:49 am • link • report

Actually, Tommy Wells should buy a Saab. They're one of the only manufacturers that manufactures and tests their vehicles for animal collisions.

by andrew on Nov 7, 2011 12:27 pm • link • report

The very-similar-to-the-Purple-line suburban U3 light rail line in Stuttgart Germany runs a 4.1 mile stretch of its journey (with 6 intermediate stops) in a scheduled 9 minutes. So, yeah, a similar length journey with two or fewer stops should, in the real world, be able to run in just over 8 minutes.

by egk on Nov 7, 2011 2:01 pm • link • report

Purple line speeds:

Take an LRV operational acceleration of 1.3 m/s2. Take the station spacing for that part of the route. Estimate a max speed of 26 m/s (58 mph). The idealized travel time, stopping at each station but no dwell time, is 5.5 minutes. Even including the slow periods easing in and out the stations, that's an average speed of about 45 mph. I think that's an overestimate because of the curves and grade changes on the route, but I also think a dwell time of 1 minute a station is also overstated. Increase the travelling time from 5.5 minutes to 6.5 minutes with a dwell time of 40 seconds for each of the 3 stops, and you are right at the proposed 8.5 minutes.

by Brian D on Nov 7, 2011 3:17 pm • link • report

Seriously, anybody who thinks a dwell time of one minute is accurate needs to get on the metro with a stopwatch. Off peak dwell times can be as short as 10 seconds and even during rush hour the only places where the train might sit for as long as a minute are stations where everyone is emptying out of the car and tons of people are piling in (Chinatown or Metro Center).

In other news, WMATA should really put some markings on the floor where the doors are so people know where and where not to stand.

by MLD on Nov 7, 2011 3:38 pm • link • report

City Journal? It's just a wingnut welfare outlet. At some point GGW should balance this right wing stuff with something from The Daily Worker.

by Rich on Nov 7, 2011 6:30 pm • link • report

I have zero doubt the protesters jumped in front of the car. I also have zero doubt the driver sped into them as well. I have zero sympathy for either for their reckless decision making.
I felt sorry though, for those poor folks who were not with the protesters nor the Koch rally who ended up being harassed or threatened or bullied for nothing they did.
And what is the deal with not allow a person in a wheelchair to leave the building by barricading the doors. Looks terrible and stuff like this underminds all the protests to the average person whose opinions they are trying to influence.

by Ray B on Nov 9, 2011 2:57 pm • link • report