Isn't there also the Georgetown Metro Connection as well?

by local on Oct 9, 2008 10:41 am • link • report

The crazy bus-naming scheme is a problem in and of itself. If you have a group of buses that run up 16th St from the White House all the way to the border, why are they called S1, S2, and S4? They should be called 16A, 16B, and 16C.

by tom veil on Oct 9, 2008 11:10 am • link • report

Could you maybe offer some similar thoughts about bus lines in the suburbs? Some of the routes are weirdly and horribly circuitous (F6, 86, and R12, to name a few that I'm familiar with), and some of the schedules make no sense and are impossible to remember (the aforementioned 86 is due to arrive at Prince George's Plaza metro station at 4:54, 5:25, 6:01, 6:25, 7:20, 8:02, 8:27, and 8:57 on weekday evenings). As a result, they're of little use at all to anyone trying to get anywhere, except for the people who have no choice.

Sometimes I wonder if they're doing this on purpose, in order to create a segregated system where the poorest people take the bus and the richer people take the train. I'm sure I'm being too cynical. But what am I missing?

by Johanna on Oct 9, 2008 11:15 am • link • report

But think of the grannies with groceries!!

by Alex on Oct 9, 2008 11:25 am • link • report

^

That's what cabs are for.

by BeyondDC on Oct 9, 2008 11:43 am • link • report

BTW, on the topic of KISS, is there some reason why the 16th Street line is named the S? How about naming it the 16 (and the 14th Street line the 14, etc). Seriously.

by BeyondDC on Oct 9, 2008 11:45 am • link • report

The various D lines seem to have NOTHING to do with each other, except that many of them go to or past Union Station. I hope that gets addressed at the meeting. At least the X and S buses travel on the same routes for big sections of them. Not so much for the D series.

by Tom Aloisi on Oct 9, 2008 11:58 am • link • report

@Johanna

one word: 3Y

i think they got it right with that one.

by jenny on Oct 9, 2008 12:00 pm • link • report

Someone once told me the reason, and I remember it kinda sorta. It dates back to the days when there were competing bus and streetcar companies, each with their own naming scheme, some numerical, some a combination of letters and numbers. If I remember correctly, the routes were numbered geographically and went in ascending order clockwise.

Thus, you have the 30s running down Wisconsin Avenue, the 40 and 42 (now just the 42) running from Mount Pleasant, the 50s running down 14th Street, the 60s running down 11th Street, the 70s running down Georgia Avenue, the 80 running down North Capitol Street, the 82 on RI Avenue and the 90 running north and west from Anacostia. Likewise, you have the A and B lines starting in Anacostia, the D and G lines running from Georgetown, the H lines running further north, the S on 16th and the X on H Street and Benning Road. Mind you, I am not saying the system makes sense -- I am just trying to answer Beyond's question. Indeed, I think it's a crazy system that should have been overhauled a long time ago. (A little bit of history: dating back to streetcars and well into the bus era, what is now the D6 running through NE Capitol Hill was an extension of the 42 from Mount Pleasant. What is not the 96 was an extension of the 40 from Mount Pleasant.)

For what it's worth, I am regular commuter on the D6 (NE to Downtown) and I have already submitted pretty strong comments about how unbelievably unreliable and overcrowded the D6 bus has become during the morning rush hour. Memo to our political leaders who talk about DC being a world-class city: a world class city does not have anything even close to the unreliability and overcrowding I experience everyday on the D6 and X2 buses. Indeed, I am not sure what a citizen of Zurich or Munich, where the streetcars run often and are always on time, would make of the D6 or the X2 bus..................

by rg on Oct 9, 2008 12:10 pm • link • report

I thought the various bus routes were all holdovers from the various transit operators that were eventually amalgamated into WMATA's bus service. They all had their own naming systems, and they were all kept for the sake of continuity. Since then, WMATA's added their own layer of revisions, making it even more confusing.

by Alex B. on Oct 9, 2008 12:10 pm • link • report

Amen. Right now I don't use buses, but I would be much more willing to if service was more frequent. When I ride Metro, I don't have to check a schedule--I just go into a station and wait for the next train, usually 15 minutes or less. Buses should run the same way to be really useful to riders--including off-peak. Cutting down on redundant lines and consolidating them into a few frequently run lines would be spectacular.

by Dan Miller on Oct 9, 2008 12:24 pm • link • report

@jenny: I thought about mentioning the F4 Sunday service, which is also pretty good. It runs in a good approximation to a straight line, it's scheduled to run every half hour exactly (so at least it's easy to remember), and in my experience it's rarely more than 2-3 minutes early or late (so it's more reliable than Metrorail Sunday service). Clearly they are not incapable of getting it right, which makes it even more puzzling that so often they don't.

by Johanna on Oct 9, 2008 12:34 pm • link • report

I feel like having trunk lines would be a great idea; however, I think the reason we have the circuitous routes at present is because a number of government regulations that require bus stops at certain distances at certain locations. You know, the same requirements that require shuttle service for the two blocks between Metro Center and Chinatown when there's an elevator outage. I'm sure that the hardcore bus users who are familiar with the system like how the buses are already, and they are most likely to be the most vocal opponents to any changes to the system.

by Adam on Oct 9, 2008 12:42 pm • link • report

"It'll help both commuters and casual users alike if we combine more of these lines into high-frequency trunk lines"

The problem is that none of those cross streets is particularly well suited to being a trunk line. P st. and Dumbarton are too narrow and get seriously backed up (particularly on P and especially on the weekends). Q st. is a bit wider and gets less backed up, but if you moved the G2 to it that would be a lot of loud buses going down the same residential street every hour.

Moreover, the other problem is that the D-series and the G2 are parallel for only a short stretch (between Rock Creek and Wisconsin) and each has a very different terminus. The G2 would still have to get back down to P to get over to the University. Coming west on Q st. doesn't allow a left turn to go south. And besides, even if you were to exempt the bus, it would still be forcing the bus down Wisconsin, which would most likely increase delays.

I prefer to avoid grouping buslines. The answer to the "which stop should I go to" dilemma is a working NextBus system. If I can simply check online, on my pda, or by phone when the next bus is coming, then I have no dilemma. Better yet, installing an electric sign outside Dupont with information on arriving buses would help out a lot for both the daily and the casual users.

by Reid on Oct 9, 2008 1:00 pm • link • report

The streetcar theory is correct. When WMATA took over the buses from Capital Transit, they kept the same numbers, which Capital Transit had kept from the various operators.

The problem with numbering buses like the S1/S2/S4 Line after the street on which they run is that A) they don't always stay on the same street for long periods, although the S buses do, and B) there are two 16th Streets in DC (16th St NW/SW and 16th St NE/SE). Also, renaming the S-Line buses 16A/B/C, would mean reorganizing one of WMATA's busiest lines, the Columbia Pike (VA) Line which has bus routes 16A/B/D/E/F/G/H/J/K/L/W/Y.

And there's an important planning consideration, too.

WMATA doesn't plan it's own bus routes, except for a few "regionally significant" lines. Because of the nature of WMATA's funding, the counties do that. So if you're upset with the routing of a bus in Prince George's County, it's PG County that you need to complain to.

This situation is very complicated, and it stems from the fact that WMATA was not initially inteded to run buses. Just like BART in San Francisco, WMATA was supposed to operate Metro(rail) only. During the planning for Metro, however, Capital Transit collapsed, and an operator was needed. WMATA picked up the burden of operations, but the counties had to take up the funding aspects.

To add even more complexity, in Montgomery and Prince George's Counties, funding now comes down from Maryland MTA, which means the counties have less flexibility in determining how dollars are allocated.

Confused yet?

by Matt' on Oct 9, 2008 1:17 pm • link • report

"Everyone else avoids buses, except maybe the Circulator. "

Please stop generalizing like that!

(I pasted this under the wrong blurb earlier...)

by Jazzy on Oct 9, 2008 1:55 pm • link • report

I think that grouping the busses going between two general areas makes a lot of sense from the perspective of the rider wanting to know where to go to wait. However in a crowded area like Dupont, what will happen when there are 4 busses there trying to pick people up and drop people off at the same exact location during the morning rush hour?

by ross on Oct 9, 2008 2:35 pm • link • report

There is an easier and cheaper way to solve the problem, and many other cities do it. Since I'm most familiar with London, I'll describe how the London system works:

The bus stops in a small area are assigned letters and clearly marked with tall, visible signs. Each stop has a map of the nearby stops and list of destinations (termini and en route) with the bus line and nearby stops (indicated by letter) listed. More frequent bus service is in bold face type and 24-hour services are noted with an icon. The Underground stations have larger maps with essentially the same information.

This won't tell you explicitly that route X doesn't run on Tuesdays, or route Y is every 5 minutes while the Z is every 15 minutes, but it helps first-time users find the right stop and gives frequent users hints about alternatives they should investigate. If bus timetables were posted in the stations nearby, that would be helpful, too.

So, in the Dupont to Georgetown case, you would look at the map/chart and there are seven bus stops in the vicinity. If you're going to Georgetown, you might see the G2 bus leaves from stop B, but it would also show you that at stop L, the D 1/3/6 runs more frequently.

by Stanton Park on Oct 9, 2008 3:35 pm • link • report

I really like the information idea that Stanton Park describes, which would be hugely helpful to people unfamiliar with the various bus options in a particular area. For those people who live in DC and/or ride these buses for commuting purposes, I'm sure they'll learn fast (as I did) the best strategies and stops to wait at to get where they're going (the G and D buses overlap for two blocks on P near the Dupont metro).

What I wonder about the D6 is why they don't split it up into two bus lines -- so that it isn't habitually late due to getting stuck in downtown traffic. Does it really need to go all the way from the Palisades to RFK & Trinidad? I used take the D6 from Foxhall Village, get off at Dupont Circle and hop on the metro, and then take Metro to Union Station because it was considerably faster than sitting on the bus as it sat in stop-and-go traffic along K and other streets until it eventually made it Union Station.

by DC_Chica on Oct 9, 2008 4:12 pm • link • report

"(the G and D buses overlap for two blocks on P near the Dupont metro)."

But for some reason, they avoid creating the grand unifying bus stop at P and 21st. The G2 doesn't stop there (but it does stop at P and 20th). The D2 stops at both stops, but the D1 and D6 don't stop at P and 20th (because they come up 20th and turn left on to P at that spot). So you have to wait at P and 20th, just in case a G2 comes, but keep your eyes trained down 20th to see if a D1 or D6 is coming so you can run over a block and catch it.

As I said, a working NextBus system would eliminate all these machinations. Up till about a few days ago, you could sneak on to the NextBus system and get data on just about every busline. But that just stopped working the other day. I have several dark and anger-fueled conspiracy theories about why Metro seems opposed to actually rolling out what appears to be a fully functioning system, but I've bored you enough (for today).

by Reid on Oct 9, 2008 6:14 pm • link • report

Um, what exactly are you talking about, Reid? WMATA scrapped the NextBus months ago, not "the other day," because it was so unreliable (and believe someone who tried it just about every day on the 30's, it was). And you couldn't "get data on just about just about every busline." It was only used on a certain few (the 30's was one of them).

by Matt on Oct 9, 2008 11:27 pm • link • report

This is the Dr. Gridlock column on the bus numbering systems. Metro inherited routes from four previous companies and left the names unchanged for the sake of consistency.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/29/AR2007122901438.html

Quote:

'There was some relation to geography. The streetcar lines started their numbers in Northwest Washington and swept clockwise around D.C. Transit's territory. The bus route names went the opposite way, starting in Southeast Washington and sweeping counterclockwise.'

'"Periodically, someone will suggest renumbering of the entire system -- trying to apply some logic to it," Erion said. But the logistics and cost would be daunting: 13,000 bus stops with signs noting route numbers, plus all the timetables and bus maps. "So we keep going along with the same hodgepodge."'

by David Ramos on Oct 9, 2008 11:58 pm • link • report

Reid is right. Nextbus was up and running on a huge amount of Metrobus routes. It just wasn't announced. You had to edit the URL on the Nextbus website to get to all the routes. For some reason, it stopped working a few days ago. Maybe it's because they saw people accesssing the information. But it was clearly working on a majority of Metrobus routes. I was using it for the D2, 3T, 68. It wasn't up for the 50s or the S4, but it was working for the S1 and S2.

by inlogan on Oct 10, 2008 8:29 am • link • report

I ride the S bus every day from Park Road to K Street and would strongly echo the frustration with overcrowding and confusion.

Riding in this morning I noticed that the bus was packed by the time we reached Irving Street and that very few people got off until M and then K, when the bus nearly emptied.

I was thinking it would be nice if there were an express bus that made limited stops (Park, Irving, U, P, M, and K perhaps) - it'd be worth waiting for!

by Ben on Oct 10, 2008 9:10 am • link • report

I attended the D bus meeting last night. 10 citizens in attendance. Unanimously citizens chose "less wait time between buses" off-peak as the preferred improvement; though the on-time statistics are very poor, no one chose "improve reliability". The project leaders were interested in the idea of grouping D and G by direction in Georgetown where the routes align. Citizens strongly opposed shortening bus routes but I don't think WMATA studied how many people need to go from Palisades to Trinidad. I wondered aloud if turnout was enough to give them the data they need on people who DON'T take the bus but WOULD if it served their needs, but was told we few were sufficiently representative. Next up is the meeting in December when the solutions will be proposed.

by Lou DC on Oct 10, 2008 9:43 am • link • report

I remember that Dr. Gridlock article. I wish we could just suck it up and make the fix.

We should run a series of trunk lines named after the street they run on (Wisconsin, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, 16th, Georgia, North Capitol, Michigan-Irving, Rhode Island, New York, Bladensburg, Benning-Florida, East Capitol-Ind-Const, Minnesota, Alabama, MLK) Brand the hell out of them. Give them their own lanes. And then run other lines to connect to them. The time savings of having your own lane would make up for the transition time.

by David C on Oct 10, 2008 11:02 am • link • report

Reid,

putting all eastbound buses on Q and all westbound ones on P could address your point about the noise involved with having too many buses on one street, and still allow people to stand in one place and have their choice of several different bus lines (it also addresses the short one-way stretches of those roads).

by Stacy on Oct 10, 2008 4:36 pm • link • report

Maybe they should add some more D Lines and reroute some to spread out the passenger traffic to different spots downtown, Keep some routes the same while rerouting others around downtown so that you dont have 4 or 5 buses following each other back to back during rush-hour for basically the same route with different start and end points.

Have all D routes in same schedule, each stop on schedule marked by a dot on map.

On Bus Map, drop MTA lines of, most people using maps are either tourist or DC resident looking for other metro lines not MTA lines. Have one colour on for all streets with bus service, and place bubbles with route numbers placed more often. Example all streets that have bus service are coloured blue, bubbe along street shows what buses travel on what street, when a bus turns have a bubble with the route number on the street the bus turned on to following a arrow pointing one wayor two ways; If the bus ends along that street have a circle similar to the ones on the metrorail map but with the bus route number inside of it. Have end and start points of bus routes clearly marked.

How about this as an idea for the D routes

D1 Ivy City - Glover Park | current route to N. Capitol and K ST then straight down K ST. then current route from 13th & K to Glover Park. (stops every 1/2 mile between North Cap & K St -Dupont Circle)

D3 Ivy City - McPherson Sq | current route to N. Capitol & E ST then down N. Capitol to Lousianna Ave, Constitution Ave, then up Penn Ave turns right on 14th ST and ends at McPherson Sq. (Rush Hour route)

**New** D4 Gallery Place - Glover Park " starts at 7th & H Street stop beside CVS site continues down H street to follows X2 route to 16th & I streets then continues down I street to 20& I and then to Glover Park

D2 discontinued

D5 goes into Sibley Hospital then continues current route extended to .

D6 same route

D8 route (break down into different lines to provide better service in different areas)

**New** D7 VA hosp - Union Station | down Michigan ave to Brookland station then down 12th st, to Rhode island ave station then same route as P6 to North Capitol then straight down North Capitol to Union Station

(adds more buses on North Capitol to relieve crowds on 80 & P6)

**D8** Current route to Saratoga Ave and Rhode Island Ave then either to Rhode Island ave station or up 12th St. to Brookland. (every other bus goes to Brookland)

**New** D9 Rhode Island Ave- Union Station | replaces current D4 Rhode Island Ave station, turn right Montanta ave to Ivy City then Current D4 route(spreads out passengers going to Rhode Island ave from just D8 to D8,D9)

**New** D10 Brentwood, Brookland- Hospital Circle Line | Rhode Island Ave. up 4th right on Edgewood, left on 7th left on Franklin, left on Michigan right on 1st in hospitals, right on Irving follows Irving to Michigan Ave to Brookland station (allows H2,4 to skip going into the Hospitals)

by kk on Oct 10, 2008 5:34 pm • link • report

Here's a finesse to handle the Georgetown-Dupont Circle traffic.

1. Put westbound D series and G2 buses on Q St.

2. Put eastbound buses on P St.

3. Instead of turning left onto Wisconsin, the westbound G2 should be rerouted to turn right onto Wisconsin, then immediately left back onto Q St. I believe the signals are already set up to let Q St. traffic cross Wisconsin without stopping. The G2 should proceed to 34th or 35th St. and turn left. When it reaches P St., it turns right to go to its terminal.

The main ideas are:

1. Reducing the bus traffic on Q St. by diverting some to P St.

2. Making the Georgetown-Dupont Circle run a straight shot in both directions.

3. Putting westbound G'Town-Dupont Cir traffic onto Q St. to reduce backups at Wisconsin.

4. Avoid having the G2 turn left onto Wisconsin. Geographically, it will actually be a little shorter.

5. Avoid using Dumbarton St., which does not go across Rock Creek, thereby eliminating time-consuming turns.

by Chuck Coleman on Oct 10, 2008 8:41 pm • link • report