Transit
Do DC's planned streetcar routes need a few tweaks?
Is DC's proposed 37-mile streetcar network perfectly planned already, or could a few tweaks to the routes improve the plan?
Photo by DDOTDC on Flickr.
The Streetcar Land Use Study released last month identified about a dozen potential route changes that might improve the system's already impressive effects on development. The proposed changes adjust the details of streetcar routes to provide better transit service to locations that have a lot of potential riders or could see new development.
The study stopped short of actually recommending any changes to the adopted network, but did suggest that as DDOT drills down into the specific details of route planning, it analyze each of these segments further.
K Street at Union Station
Somewhere near Union Station, the H Street streetcar will shift north 2 blocks before continuing west along K Street into downtown. The adopted plan calls for the shift to take place on New Jersey Avenue, but it could be done on 1st Street NE instead.
The 1st Street alignment would provide more direct service through the heart of the emerging NoMa office district, and to the huge Greyhound bus station at the corner of K and 1st. The downside is this alignment would remove direct access to the New Jersey Avenue Walmart, which is sure to become a major destination.
Poplar Point and downtown Anacostia
Poplar Point could one day be the location of a large new mixed-use development. Unfortunately the location is isolated by I-295, and difficult to access by foot or transit. Meanwhile, the MLK Avenue alignment through downtown Anacostia is narrow, and proving difficult to work with. Adding tracks to Poplar Point would add a major new attraction and remove stress from a likely choke point.
Southwest Waterfront
Like Poplar Point, the Southwest Waterfront is primed for major redevelopment. The planned streetcar alignment follows Maine Avenue, but shifting it one block over to Water Street would put it closer to the action, for basically no additional cost. There is so much pavement in this area that it may be a location where a dedicated transit lane is possible. If that is the case, DDOT should put the streetcar wherever they can get the lane.
Buzzard Point
Diverting the M Street SW/SE streetcar to Potomac Avenue would more directly serve Nationals Park and much of the associated nearby development. Unfortunately, doing so would add a lot of travel time for other riders, since it would turn what is currently planned to be a direct 3-block trip along M Street into a lengthy 10-block crescent. Additionally, M Street is one of the few locations where a dedicated transit lane may be possible, so diverting from it would forfeit that possibility.
14th and 15th Streets
Shifting the streetcar from 14th to 15th through downtown DC would be easier to construct from an engineering perspective, and would put the streetcar on a busy tourist street close to the White House. The study does not discuss the implications of running a streetcar on the same street as a cycle track, but if they can both be accommodated it would certainly be an impressive sight.
7th/9th couplet
The adopted streetcar plan calls for both both north and southbound streetcars to use 7th Street south of Gallery Place. Shifting the southbound trains to 9th Street would mirror existing bus service, reduce impacts on congested 7th Street, and permit use of the 9th Street transit lane.
Washington Hospital Center
DDOT's streetcar plan calls for half the streetcars on one line to take Irving Street and the other half to take Michigan Avenue. Eliminating this split around the hospital campus and instead routing the streetcar through the campus, or along its southern edge, would save tens of millions of dollars and have no serious negative effect on service to the hospital or any future development at the McMillan Sand Filtration site.
It would take away convenient service from the Armed Forces Retirement Home and development the home plans at the edge of its property, but that may not happen for some time and the size is still in question.
Columbia/Harvard couplet
The adopted plan calls for bi-directional streetcar travel along one-way Columbia Road. Adding tracks to Harvard Street and operating one-way couplets through Columbia Heights would be similar to the way existing bus service uses Irving and Columbia as couplets, and would improve operations. It would be worth exploring mirroring bus service exactly and using Irving instead of Harvard for eastbound tracks, but doing so would require more complicated engineering and may therefore be more difficult.
South Dakota Avenue and Fort Lincoln
Rerouting the eastern end of the Rhode Island Avenue streetcar to turn south on South Dakota Avenue and terminate at Fort Lincoln would bring service to potential redevelopment areas along South Dakota Avenue, as well as provide a convenient location for a maintenance facility. However, this would add significant new length and expense to the line, and would make it more difficult to ever extend rail service into Maryland.
Silver Spring
The Georgia Avenue line would end at Takoma Metro rather than Silver Spring in order to keep the entire line within the District of Columbia. However, Silver Spring is a tremendously more compelling destination, with very high density and one of the region's most important transit transfer stations. Rerouting to Silver Spring would almost certainly be worth the cost, if Maryland is willing to participate as a partner.
Wisconsin Avenue has repeatedly come up as a potentially strong streetcar corridor that was left out of the adopted plan. There is less opportunity along Wisconsin Avenue for substantial infill growth, which makes it a lower priority for streetcar service. However, if the system does expand significantly beyond its current scope, this would be a natural corridor.
Rosslyn
Curiously, the land use study does not consider the possibility of extending the Georgetown streetcar line across the Key Bridge into Rosslyn. Certainly such an extension would be compelling, for many of the same reasons as the Silver Spring extension. It could be that the cost or engineering challenges of extending rail to Rosslyn are prohibitive, but it seems odd to leave out any discussion of the possibility.
Cross-posted at BeyondDC.
 | Dan Malouff is a professional transportation planner for the Arlington County Department of Transportation. He has a degree in Urban Planning from the University of Colorado, and lives a car-free lifestyle in Northwest Washington. His posts are his own opinions and do not represent the views of his employer in any way. He runs the blog BeyondDC and also contributes to the Washington Post Local Opinions blog.   |
Comments
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by Thayer-D on Feb 10, 2012 9:09 am • link • report
by MJ on Feb 10, 2012 9:20 am • link • report
by MLD on Feb 10, 2012 9:20 am • link • report
by Alex B. on Feb 10, 2012 9:22 am • link • report
Also the Rhode Island Avenue line should continue on Rhode Island around Logan and Scott Circles to downtown instead of making the out of way turn onto Florida and 14th.
by inlogan on Feb 10, 2012 9:29 am • link • report
I'm not sure I understand how the streetcars cold get from H St NE to 1st St NE as H Street uses an overpass above 1st Street.
As for Columbia Heights, current buses do not mirror your ideas, they run east via Irving and west via Columbia. Having streetcars run east via Harvard seems silly as using the existing routing on Irving Street would allow a stop directly at the Columbia Heights Station, at 14th and Irving.
As for Wisconsin, I agree that a streetcar service should come. Buses are incredibly overwhelmed in rush hour, and on weekends, so the larger capacity of streetcars could really help. I've heard that the reason articulated buses aren't used on Wisconsin is because they can't make the sharp turn from M Street, so your map's idea using K/Water Street is a good alternative.
The Friendship Heights bus terminal is already over-used. This year, certain N-line buses had to start rush-hour service a couple of blocks away because of crowding at the station. One alternative could be to route some streetcars to turnaround at Tenleytown via the loop of Fort Drive and 40th St that the H- buses use after turning of Wisconsin at Tenley Circle.
by arm on Feb 10, 2012 9:43 am • link • report
It's such a great spot, actually, that I would hope to see the crosstown line from Woodley Park extended from it's current proposed terminus at Brookland down Monroe Street to Mount Rainier.
by Dave Murphy on Feb 10, 2012 9:46 am • link • report
I suspect the problem with Rosslyn is a turnaround. Also, it will throw a jinx into schedules as using key bridge is a mess both ways.
by charlie on Feb 10, 2012 9:47 am • link • report
by Dave Murphy on Feb 10, 2012 9:49 am • link • report
It's also not quite right to call NoMa just an "emerging office district" as there are over new 4,000 apartment units complete or under construction within NoMa's boundaries, and another 1,200 units are breaking ground this year. It's an emerging *mixed-use* district, which will soon be among the most dense residential neighborhoods in DC.
by Tony on Feb 10, 2012 9:52 am • link • report
And will anything actually get built and in operation within our lifetimes?
by ceefer66 on Feb 10, 2012 9:55 am • link • report
by Lance on Feb 10, 2012 10:04 am • link • report
Dan did write about a Wisconsin line in his article. A Connecticut line would be redundant with Metro's Red Line for the most part. Other places need new transit more.
by arm on Feb 10, 2012 10:08 am • link • report
Yeah, you could say 'just turn it over to streetcars and ban regular cars'...
You're right! And it doesn't need to be streetcars, it can be all transit vehicles.
Giving high-capacity public vehicles the advantage. What a concept!
by Alex B. on Feb 10, 2012 10:10 am • link • report
But the current plan woud knock out the, at best, the Dupont/Rosslyn circulator. You'd still want the 38B, and you really want the Rosslyn circulator as well. I do think you can manage buses better on M st with stops (which DDOT is trying, for example not bunching the buses at the old Nathans). Removing some left turns as well would help.
I'd love to see a proposal that would ban all delivery vehicles during rush hour.
But back on point, if you could run streetcars up Wisonsin and replace those 30s buses I think you can see an improvement. Just running them down M st without replacing buses -- no.
by charlie on Feb 10, 2012 10:11 am • link • report
This may be outside the purview of the DC streetcar study, but I hope that eventually some kind of connection is studied between the DC system and the Columbia Pike streetcar in Virginia.
Also, not to quibble: it's Columbia Road in Columbia Heights, not Columbia Street.
by dan reed! on Feb 10, 2012 10:15 am • link • report
The plan is to eliminate Water Street SE north of the intersection at 6th St SE and allow the developer to build on that redundant street and shift all traffic to Maine Ave. So that's where the streetcar would have to go as well. Makes sense to me.
by 7r3y3r on Feb 10, 2012 10:15 am • link • report
Water Street will be gone in the Wharf redevelopment. In fact, I believe it's already been closed on paper. There are renderings where the streetcar runs along the water in a woonerf in one direction however.
I think the idea of the Buzzard Point detour is to spur some development down there. Whether it's worth the detour is certainly a topic of debate.
Somewhat more pedantically: I don't think there is any bus service that runs north on 7th but south on 9th right now. The Circulator used to do that but that line was discontinued a few months ago. I believe the Circulator service will resume once some of the Wharf development opens up, probably to be replaced by streetcar at some point.
by Steven Yates on Feb 10, 2012 10:20 am • link • report
by merarch on Feb 10, 2012 10:22 am • link • report
there already is a connection between the DC system and the (maybe it will happen, maybe it wont) Columbia Pike line - its called the Yellow line :)
Seriously given the superiority of heavy rail for longer distance travel, given that feeder relationships (most Columbia pike commuters will likely find the metrorail connection preferable even if there is a LRT line over the river) and given, IIUC, the better capacity to $$$ ratio for an additional heavy rail connection versus a bridge widening for light rail, my sense is A. the seperated blue line is a higher priority than a LR connection over the river and B. A LR connection over the river may never be justified - the most likely exception to B would be when a new bridge is built for motor vehicles, and some transit provision is added (the Wilson bridge model) But we aren't due for a new highway bridge over the Potomac downtown anytime soon, are we?
by AWalkerInTheCity on Feb 10, 2012 10:24 am • link • report
If the line on Georgia Avenue should connect to Silver Spring for the advantages of connecting another large cross-border activity center, the same logic can apply to Rhode Island Avenue. A spur to Fort Lincoln with a streetcar barn located there would be a good long-term idea.
by Geoffrey Hatchard on Feb 10, 2012 10:24 am • link • report
It'll also give people who live west of the park access to all the emerging amenities (and those new businesses more customers) along upper Georgia Avenue that will open as the streetcar corridor redevelops.
As for money... we're having trouble getting MCDOT to proceed with building the new entrance to the Bethesda Metro and to prevent the County Executive from defunding this much-needed infrastructure.
by Cavan on Feb 10, 2012 10:30 am • link • report
Good catch on Irving/Harvard. That is now fixed.
Regarding 1st Street SE at Union Station: I had the same thought, but assumed they just wrote that part of the study under the original (no longer true) assumption that the tracks would go below the bridge rather than on top of them. I didn't go into the weeds pronouncing that a reason to kill this idea because theoretically they could do the same thing using North Capitol instead of 1st, or Amtrak could come around by the time we're ready to extend west onto K, at which time DDOT might consider going below again.
by BeyondDC on Feb 10, 2012 10:33 am • link • report
A lot of people seem under the mistaken impression that this would be impossible because of the grade change. The detail that makes this work is that the streetcar is planned to go *underneath* the H Street Bridge. This was already a good idea, because going underneath allows access to the walkway to the Red Line station, and to a space under the bridge that should make a good car barn. The downside of going under the bridge was figuring out how to punch back up top so that the car could roll down H until it moves to K street at New Jersey. Turning onto 1st NE solves that problem gracefully.
by tom veil on Feb 10, 2012 10:38 am • link • report
DC is not the first city in the world to deal with these issues. Signal priority, less frequent stops, and fare prepayment will make the streetcars considerably faster than buses.
As for trucks blocking the tracks if you make the penalty an immediate tow, 7 day impound, and $2000 fine this ceases to be an issue after the first couple of violations.
by Phil on Feb 10, 2012 10:40 am • link • report
Exactly. Only problem is the inherent gutlessness of the DC Council, but the solution isn't a complicated one.
by oboe on Feb 10, 2012 10:46 am • link • report
by BeyondDC on Feb 10, 2012 10:46 am • link • report
by Dave Murphy on Feb 10, 2012 10:50 am • link • report
by Dave Murphy on Feb 10, 2012 10:51 am • link • report
Rosslyn is a good idea but too expensive and problematic given the need to cross the river and somewhat redundant with the orange/blue/silver line. A much cheaper yet highly impactful transit improvement at Rosslyn is adding a circulator from there to U St. Maybe that circulator could be funded partially through an added fee to liquor licenses on U St.
by Falls Church on Feb 10, 2012 10:56 am • link • report
The original plan for Washington Hospital Center was especially egregious, with the First St NW couplet stations being a 7-minute walk apart. Shifting the tracks to Hospital Center Service Road (either the one that goes in between WHC and Children's, or the one that goes in between WHC and National Rehab) would be more attractive to patients, staff, and visitors.
by tom veil on Feb 10, 2012 10:57 am • link • report
by Kyle W on Feb 10, 2012 10:58 am • link • report
I stand corrected. The limited schedule/limited stops of the 79 kind of keeps it out of my consciousness. But the 70 and 74 run both north and south on 7th.
by Steven Yates on Feb 10, 2012 11:04 am • link • report
I know the Columbia Pike line would connect with the Metro, giving riders access into DC, and as long as we're talking about Jarrett Walker this week, it's worth pointing out that we shouldn't be afraid of transfers, and I agree. But I think you could make the redundancy argument for having both streetcar and Metro cross the Potomac (much as is being discussed for bringing the streetcar into Rosslyn), not to mention additional connections that could actually reduce transfers.
For instance, let's say you were going from Columbia Pike to Dupont Circle. As currently proposed, you'd have to take a streetcar to Pentagon City, then Yellow, then Red. If (for example) the Columbia Pike line connected somehow to the 14th Street or 7th Street lines, you could just go to Metro Center or Gallery Place and then switch once to the Red Line.
by dan reed! on Feb 10, 2012 11:07 am • link • report
You can really only capture riders in places where you can walk to transit in both directions.
by MLD on Feb 10, 2012 11:18 am • link • report
As for Georgetown handling the streetcar, there is basically zero chance overhead wires will be allowed on M St. So battery power is necessary. But a battery powered streetcar needs its own lane so it doesn't get stuck in traffic and run out of juice. So a transit lane is necessary. I think this is possible if we remove parking on M St., which benefits such a small slice of people anyway. Hopefully there'd be room to widen the sidewalks too, so we'd have wider sidewalks, four car lanes and two transit lanes. Tearing the Whitehurst down and directing more through traffic to K St. could remove pressure from M St. as well.
by TM on Feb 10, 2012 11:19 am • link • report
by Crickey7 on Feb 10, 2012 11:24 am • link • report
Yes, of course to determine the optimal route for any given traveler you'd have to look at the specific OD pair and the time differences, and transfer impedence factors. And the resulting analysis would depend on the street car configuration.
I am suggesting that because many, if not most, Columbia Pike LR riders would transfer to metrorail anyway, that would be a serious weakness in the BCA for the LR crossing. I did not address the line to Rosslyn, which I think is also unlikely for similar reasons. Basically once you have to cross a bridge, and have the resulting capital costs (and on a section of route where you won't have the frequent on - off, the encouragement to street retail, and the other factors that LRT/streetcar can do better than heavy rail) I think the BCA swings much more decisively not just to heavy rail over LRT, but to heavy rail alone (or heavy rail supplemented by circulator or other bus) vs redundancy. This is different from Rhode Island ave LRT to PG county, where you don't have the cost of the river crossing (and where the redundancy isn't quite as direct)
And again, its not certain when or if Columbia pike LR will be built, given that the recent higher cost estimate has raised financial questions (meanwhile the "super stops" on the pike are proceeding apace, but for now they will be served by buses)
by AWalkerInTheCity on Feb 10, 2012 11:27 am • link • report
You're right, the cost of a river crossing makes any new transit between DC and NoVA difficult, so we should strive to get the highest return on investment. And that's a good thing, because it means more streetcars for Maryland :-)
by dan reed! on Feb 10, 2012 11:37 am • link • report
My gut reaction it's infeasable because
1. You'd have to tunnel under the bridge and the canal, making the floor of the tunnel at sea level or below, while the tunnel mouth would be at the foot of Wisconsin Ave in an area that already floods rather regularly. The tunnel and the infrastructure inside would be subject to flooding way too often.
2. If we're going to spend money tunneling through georgetown, the money would be better spent on expanding the heavy rail system (Metro)
by merarch on Feb 10, 2012 11:38 am • link • report
by Dan Gamber on Feb 10, 2012 12:03 pm • link • report
yes, basically. NoVa's advantage vis a vis transit, is that the river chokepoints strengthen transit vs the auto (and I think thats one reason the orange line corridor has happened more successfully than anything in Md) but its disadvantage is that it really needs expensive heavy rail crossings to make that work - Light rail/street car plays to marylands advantages/
by AWalkerInTheCity on Feb 10, 2012 12:12 pm • link • report
Maybe the contest could be for when we reach 10 miles of street cars? It could be in many of our lifetimes.
by Tom A. on Feb 10, 2012 12:16 pm • link • report
Color some of us dubious that they will be as impressive as the study claims. In any event, it is a bit premature to declare that the impressiveness has already manifested itself.
by Crickey7 on Feb 10, 2012 12:22 pm • link • report
by AWalkerIntheCity on Feb 10, 2012 12:31 pm • link • report
by Gray on Feb 10, 2012 1:00 pm • link • report
by Kelseykdc on Feb 10, 2012 1:05 pm • link • report
by Bob on Feb 10, 2012 1:23 pm • link • report
Most of Western Cleveland Park is 20 minutes or so from the Metro Station.
Glover Park and the rest of Wisconsin Avenue are served by numerous bus lines, but buses are routinely overcrowded.
As a daily rider of the line from Tenleytown to Foggy Bottom, I see buses packed by the time they reach Massachusetts, often turning down passengers two miles from downtown. Busses by 7:45 are commonly standing-room only by the time they reach Tenleytown, four miles from downtown.
More capacity is needed, and to attract more transit riders, upgraded service is necessary for what is likely the most overwhelmed corridor in the region. Some daily inbound riders may take the long walks to the Red Line, but that walk will not entice many others. Central Wisconsin near the Cathedral is about to have massive development. Despite the ideas of many NIMBYists, I support this, but the public transportation is already overcapacity and needs more to support the future of the corridor. More buses would be great, but streetcars are able to carry far more people and attract riders out of the cars that clog the one lane that Wisconsin becomes in Georgetown.
by arm on Feb 10, 2012 1:53 pm • link • report
I remember seeing some good traffic studies that DDOT did and used to plan these lines-those should be made more available to people so they understand that this system was not designed arbitrarily. When I imagine the places I'd want to go in the city, it seems like this system would generally get me there easier than I can get there today. The East-West H/K street line will be absolutely packed! Imagine easy movement from U-Street/Georgia areas all the way down to H-Street, Barracks row, Capital Hill, SE Waterfront, etc. The impact is going to be huge and hugely positive.
by Skinny on Feb 10, 2012 1:58 pm • link • report
Portland's Eastside Streetcar extension will employ left-hand running on a couplet segment for the first time in the entire system. Another segment, which will feature traditional right-hand running, has garnered significant complaint from the active transportation community for the conflicts that will be raised with bicycles upon opening.
As far as distance between opposing-direction stops on couplet lines, the longest distance between the two directions is 2 blocks (400 feet) with the more common distance being 1 block (200 feet). I don't see much problem with the setup, but the diminutive size of Portland blocks helps alleviate most issues locating and using the service.
by Reza on Feb 10, 2012 2:26 pm • link • report
by HogWash on Feb 10, 2012 2:29 pm • link • report
I would propose an alternative route for the section labeled 3D in the Land Use study, which currently traverses 8th Street SE/NE.
I believe the wiser choice would be for the line to come north from Anacostia on the 11th Street bridge, then immediately head northeast along Potomac Ave to the eastern edge of the Potomac Avenue Metro stop, then head north along 15th Street SE/NE (instead of 8th Street), meeting the H Street NE Streetcar at the Starburst intersection at H Street NE, 15th St, Benning Road, Bladensburg Road and Maryland Ave.
I have reviewed the Streetcar Land Use Study Phase I. Page 45 of the report correctly identifies the 8th Street SE/NE segment as the main challenge to this part of the system:
Challenges: 8th Street NE/SE offers only a single travel
lane in each direction, but it could function as a streetcar
corridor with an appropriate redesign to manage traffic
and parking-related issues.
Routing along 15th Street SE/NE takes advantage of the development opportunities in areas zoned all along 15th Street from D St SE to the Starburst intersection at H Street NE. The streetcar-friendly zoning along so much of this route is a reflection of the actual bricks and mortar neighborhood along this wide street that would take full advantage of streetcar development. The 15th Street SE/NE route passes a Safeway supermarket, many small locally-owned retail shops, a DCPS elementary school and other places that attract people who’d use the streetcar.
Comparing a 15th Street alternative to the current 8th Street plan, three things recommend the alternative:
• 15th Street is more in need of the economic development boost than is Barrack’s Row
• 15th Street is wider, and commercial along more of its length, than 8th Street
• Residents on 15th may welcome the Streetcar, while residents on 8th Street have already indicated their intention to protest and try to block the 8th Street line
The current 8th Street SE/NE plan means a missed opportunity for economic development along 15th St, where it’s needed more, and resident opposition along 8th St SE/NE may delay or even scuttle a Streetcar line connecting the Anacostia Streetcar with the H St NE streetcar.
by Trulee Pist on Feb 10, 2012 2:48 pm • link • report
If the street car is going to run on K (the better option) and up Wisconsin (the grade isn't too steep - San Francisco and Seattle mastered that issue during the last century) then DC can take that opportunity to redesign the streets so they are more friendly to pedestrians and transit. The sidewalks on much of Wisconsin are very narrow and don't welcome foot traffic. Eliminating parking in one or both lanes would allow a transit only right of way, broader sidewalks, and a much improved climate for businesses (increased tax revenue).
Something that needs to be though is how to connect the city north of downtown. Currently is very difficult to get from the west side of the city to the east. The purple line is addressing the problem outside the city but an inner connection north of the zoo needs to be considered.
Overall the streetcar plan is good - it justs needs to progress at a much faster rate.
by andy2 on Feb 10, 2012 3:34 pm • link • report
-Run the E-W line through Georgetown to GU'
-Run a line from Rosslyn, through Georgetown and up Wisconsin. The terminus for this line could either be Friendship Heights or Chevy Chase Circle Via Nebraska and CT (basically criss-crossing with the Red Line);
-Consider extending the line terminating in Woodley Park straight out Conn. Ave.;
-The Georgia Ave line ought to go to Silver Spring, the RT 1 Line ought to go to College Park and cross the Purple Line.
One advantage to Buzzard Point is if the DCU ends up there, the infrastructure could be built at the same time as a stadium.
by William on Feb 10, 2012 4:05 pm • link • report
As noted above, much of the Wisconsin Avenue corridor is more than two miles from a metro station. Ward 3's densest neighborhood, Glover Park, is over two miles from the nearest station.
There will also be plenty of development along the Wisconsin Avenue corridor in the coming years, including:
*Mixed-use Tenley Safeway
*Babe's Billards
*American University campus plan (and the relocation of the Washington College of Law to Tenley Circle, directly on Wisconsin Avenue)
*Cathedral Commons/Giant
*Department of Homeland Security's Nebraska Avenue campus expansion
*Georgetown University campus plan.
There is also assorted growth planned for Georgetown.
If a Wisconsin Avenue route connected to the Georgetown terminus of the K Street streetcar route, it could give passengers in upper Northwest an alternative and more direct route to get to Foggy Bottom and Farragut West than a circuitous trip on the Red Line and a transfer at Metro Center. The systemwide capacity benefits of this could be significant as more passengers are added on metro-rail with the completion of the Silver and Purple lines.
by Ben on Feb 10, 2012 4:15 pm • link • report
8th works better than 15th for a number reasons.
1) It replicates an already existing (and incredibly heavily-used) bus line, one of the main goals of the streetcar system.
2) 8th is easier to convert to two-way tram running.
3) 8th allows for Metro connections to Eastern Market easier than 15th for Potomac Avenue.
4) 8th to M to the bridge is cheaper, faster, and easier to plan than 15th somehow getting to the bridge.
5) 8th increases the overall catchment area of the streetcar better through more land encompassing higher density residential in the H Street Corridor and Capitol Hill, giving more people bi-directional transport access.
by Phil on Feb 10, 2012 4:19 pm • link • report
We are, of course, arguing about what color shed we should build when the unicorns come to live with us. This ain't happening.
by Trulee Pist on Feb 10, 2012 4:29 pm • link • report
@Phil
Phil is absolutely right. 8th Street NE/SE is absolutely the better choice for all of his reasons listed, but I think he misses an even bigger reason: 15th Street NE/SE is One Way only. This could create a lower ridership by splitting the line down two streets as several commenters have already said about other lines.
by arm on Feb 10, 2012 4:36 pm • link • report
(1.) Where does it say the streetcar should replicate bus lines?
Isn't this kinda obvious? Streetcars represent a capacity upgrade. The existing concepts all mirror busy bus lines. Why? Because that's where the demand is. Also, those busy bus lines mirror where many streetcars used to run.
(2.) I don't know what 2-way tram running is, and why that's easier on 8th;
Two-way running is the same as two-way traffic, and it's easier on 8th because 8th is already two-way traffic.
(3.) The 15th Street streetcar line will stop on the curb at the Potomac Metro station, while 8th Street line will be at a minimum across the street and a block and a half from the EM Metro entrance (which is at 7th Street)
a) I was unaware that the engineering had been done to determine curb running vs center running.
b) Assuming curb running (as you do here), the Potomac Ave option would have to travel around the one-way circle at the Potomac Ave Metro, meaning you'd only have a curbside connection from the southbound side.
c) A curbside connection to the Metro would require then moving from the right side of the street across a few lanes of traffic to make a left turn to stay on Potomac - not a particularly good engineering choice.
d) Given the above challenges, I think a more likely scenario is a similar walk as you'd find at Eastern Market - where the Metro entrance is really more like 150 feet away from the 8th Street curb, not a block and a half.
(4.) 11th Street bridge dumps the streetcar from Anacostia closer to Potomac Metro than EM, and the route is easy-peasy (foot of 11th Street bridge along very wide Potomac Avenue to Potomac Avenue Metro at 15th and Pennsylvania Ave)= probably cheaper, faster, easier to plan the 8th to M to bridge;
I don't know why you'd assume it's cheaper, faster, and easier to plan. No real evidence of that.
by Alex B. on Feb 10, 2012 4:54 pm • link • report
by Geoffrey Hatchard on Feb 10, 2012 4:56 pm • link • report
Good point. I'm not particularly familiar with that part of Hill East, but a Google street view image makes it look like it would be a tight squeeze for two ways streetcars and parking on both sides, something residents would likely not want to give up. Some two way streets also can't fit two lanes of buses (and likely streetcars) even with one lane of parking taken away, which is why the H2 bus is split on two streets that have traffic in both directions.
Regardless, 8th Street has a number of more reasons why it should host North/South streetcars than 15th street.
http://www.wmata.com/bus/timetables/dc/h2-4.pdf
by arm on Feb 10, 2012 5:15 pm • link • report
Since the mention of Wisconsin Ave what other avenues/streets/roads in DC such as Connecticut, New York, New Hampshire, Alabama, Nebraska, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Florida, North Capitol, East Capitol, Military and Bladenburg.
by kk on Feb 10, 2012 8:54 pm • link • report
When will the neighbors on 8th Street back down and allow this to happen. How about never? Does never work for you?
by Trulee Pist on Feb 10, 2012 9:31 pm • link • report
Street cars will be a lot less disruptive than a 90 every 5 minutes during rush hour and every 10-15 min all other times.
There is also talk about redeveloping the old Capitol Hill Hospital into apartments which people haven't gotten too NIMBY over yet.
by Will on Feb 11, 2012 12:45 am • link • report
This would be a key north-south link in the system and the city's transit network. The current bus ridership shows that. Why should the 8th street neighbors have veto power over such a key investment that benefits the entire city?
by Alex B. on Feb 11, 2012 9:16 am • link • report
Far as I can tell, the neighbors on 8th say no to just about everything. At a certain point, it just becomes background noise.
by Tim Krepp on Feb 11, 2012 11:00 am • link • report
I'll believe it when I see it. Bear in mind cleveland park has been trying for decades just to renovate their Giant and tenley decided they would rather have a pepco substation next to their metro than a modest condo building. Transit needs to go where development opportunities are the greatest and realistic. DC's future development is likely to be very heavy focused east of rock creek, so that should be the focus of transit investment.
Also, the GU and AU campus plans are all about restricting growth, not promoting it. Contrast that with the pro-growth HU plan.
by Falls Church on Feb 11, 2012 11:24 am • link • report
by NikolasM on Feb 11, 2012 11:45 am • link • report
As per DC Mud, construction is going to begin on the Cathedral Commons/Giant in March. The American Univeristy campus plan adds several dorms with about 400 beds on the current Nebraska Avenue parking lot. It will also bring 2000 law students from the Massachusetts Avenue Washington College of Law building to Tenley Circle. These are hardly insignificant changes.
There is a more favorable attitude now towards smart growth among many in Tenley.
by Ben on Feb 11, 2012 12:10 pm • link • report
Don't try to speak for me! I am a resident (and homeowner) on 8th St., and I strongly support the 8th St. line!
1. (Noise/Vibration)
I've got buses rumbling by every 5 minutes. These are damn loud, and they cause vibrations that shake my house. Streetcars would greatly reduce the number of buses needed. The electric motors on streetcars are MUCH quieter than the internal combustion engines in buses. Streetcars glide smoothly on straight rails, they do NOT cause the vibrations that buses do.
2. (Connectivity)
As noted, 8th street is a historical line. A line on this street (and down Florida) will connect (a) New York Avenue Metro, (b) Gallaudet University, (c) 8th and H NE, i.e. the middle and heart of H street, (d) Eastern Market (where you now have car traffic and parking problems on the weekend), (e) Barracks Row, which is a neighborhood that literally grew up around the old streetcar line, and (f) Navy Yard, (g) the ballpark, and (h) SE waterfront, and onward.
3. (Utility)
I look forward to stepping outside and hopping on a streetcar to visit Barracks Row restaurants, swing down to Easter Market, hit a ballgame, downtown museums, etc. I would love to be whisked away up to U-street, Georgia Ave, Adam's Morgan, etc. This is what the streetcar is for - moving between neighborhoods in DC.
4. (Parking/Traffic)
The streetcar will mean at least some residents will elect to go without cars, increasing parking availability. The streetcar will replace at least some of the car traffic that now runs up and down the street.
5. (Aesthetics)
This is subjective. However, I have noticed that travel pictures often feature artful shots of streetcars plying streets in Europe, San Francisco, etc.. I don't often see travel pictures featuring a city bus. I've lived in Europe, and seen streetcars co-exist with quaint residential streets, big green trees, grassy parks, historical architecture, etc. These vehicles ADD to these places, they don't detract from them.
6. (Property Values)
I would HATE for my house's value to rise 5-20 percent due to it being situated on a streetcar line!
The best argument for a line further East is that it would spur development on less developed property. I would indeed support ANOTHER line running up and down nearer the Anacostia (not 15th), but the massive plans for that area's development are many many years away. The 8th Street line and that hypothetical line would not need to be mutually exclusive.
Trulee, the most odious thing about your argument is that it is so transparently self-serving. If having a streetcar on your street is so odious, why do you suggest people on 15th St. should suffer such a terrible fate? Your argument rests on the presumption that 8th St. residents won't allow the line and that 15th St. residents will. I really want to know why you think that, and why you think you speak for residents of both streets!
by Skinny on Feb 11, 2012 5:14 pm • link • report
It's Friendship Heights that will be getting a Pepco substation, not my neighborhood, Tenleytown. Also, residents clearly did not have any say in the Pepco substation. You say "They decided they would rather have" it. Although they rejected the condos, they're ANC chairman is stated in the first article linked below saying “I am surprised that Pepco, which touts its responsibility to the community, has not consulted with the community." Please do your research before making assumptions. Their may be a lot of NIMBYists where I live, but most of them aren't foolish enough to want a substation above a Metro station.
"Transit needs to go where development opportunities are the greatest and realistic." Development opportunities are not the only necessary reason for improved transit, increasing capacity on existing transit is also important.
The Wisconsin Avenue/Pennsylvania Avenue 30's bus line is the busiest in the region. The second link below shows that over 530,000 people rode the 30's line (which comprises of the 31, 32, 34, 36, 37, 39, and M6 routes) in 2009. I have seen an updated version somewhere, but I found this faster tonight. Over Metro's 21 day study period, 533,000 people rode the line (20,500) per day). No other line comes close to being this large. Few probably come close to as crowded as the 31, 32, 36 buses are during rush hour, when they are often full miles from downtown. Despite the numbers, the line is not being considered for streetcar conversion. Meanwhile, large buses aren't realistic because articulated busses can't make the sharp turn from M Street to Wisconsin Avenue in Georgetown. More capacity is needed, especially with the incoming residences of Cathedral Commons, the Babe's Billiard's redevelopment, and the new residences at the Tenleytown Safeway. I expect these residents will be different from many of the car-reliant nimbyists who seem to live primarily single family homes. New residents needing transit in a few years will find a corridor that is already overcrowded and needs a better way of carrying more people. Streetcars have more capacity and can be the necessary change to the 30's line.
http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/blog/2011/11/from-mixed-use-to-substation-pepco.html?page=all
http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/docs/AUG_09_Rider_Sum_by_Juris_and_Line.pdf
by arm on Feb 11, 2012 5:55 pm • link • report
Development is what's going to pay for the streetcars so it needs to be the primary consideration in building new transit capacity. Withoug a positive return, you're just emptying government coffers without replenishing it. That's bad for everyone else since it means less money available for projects with a high return.
Now maybe rock creek west is undergoing a shift where the majority is more receptive to change and growth. That would be great news because there's a lot of untapped potential in that corridor. But, there's some work to be done to convince those wedded to the status quo that change is not bad. There are few examples in the area where significant development has occurred in a place populated by rich, powerful, longtime homeowners. It's not impossible but an uphill battle.
by Falls Church on Feb 12, 2012 11:19 am • link • report
Ward 3 has long had the most income of any ward, putting out the most tax dollars per household. This is money the city could be using to fund streetcars on Wisconsin. Yes, ward three money should be used to help development elsewhere, but why is there such little return in transportation on the ward's investment? The seven over wards have at least one line stretching through much of their area, ward 3 has one stop planned for Woodley Park, one of the places in the ward that is best served by transit. While some people west of the park are afraid of growth and change, it has long been my belief that a silent majority of residents support growth along the main corridors but are vocally overwhelmed by vocal opponents. As I've stated in earlier comments, there is a demonstrated need for additional capacity alone Wisconsin. In one way or another, this needs to be addressed.
by arm on Feb 12, 2012 12:23 pm • link • report
Regarding crossing the river into Virginia, I think this is something that should be pursued. First off, it will undoubtedly be cheaper than a separated Blue Line. Second, it will bring needed cross-river capacity when the existing Metro crossings hit capacity, especially since PlanItMetro projects that the Yellow Line bridge will be even more crowded in the future than the Orange Crush. Third, it will be a way to seamlessly tie the Arlington and DC systems together.
by Froggie on Feb 12, 2012 12:33 pm • link • report
I've attended most streetcar meetings since the current hype began at a meeting at Maury ES about 2 years ago. Political leaders who support the streetcar seem to lack the will to make this happen over objections of many 8th St SE residents. They said exactly that, publicly, at the very first streetcar meeting in the nabe. Sorry to be odious. I hope to be odious enough to cause many who live on 8th Street SE/NE to come forward and state their support for 8th Street streetcar.
Greater than my preference for 8th over 15th St, however, is my even stronger desire to see the Anacostia line linked to Cap Hill and H St NE line across the 11th St bridge. I have been a supporter of streetcar and 8th Street streetcar from Day One. So keep pitching for an 8th St SE/NE line, Skinny. I am with you on that. But if you ever get the sense that 8th St neighbors' objections are killing our hopes, consider backing a 15th St alternative, just so some N/S line comes in connecting Anacostia-Barracks Row(ish)-H Street NE.
I'm not sure I understand Skinny's "closer to the Anacostia but NOT 15th Street." Historically and in current zoning, 15th Street is a commercial strip. Go any further east from 15th Street, and you're just duplicating the EM-Stadium Armory run of the Blue-Orange lines (and missing the H St NE streetcar line connection). Why not 15th Street SE/NE?
Mostly, though, my greatest greater Washington spidey-sense (IMHO) is that this whole effort suffers from too much hype relative to too little actual planning and rigorous study of potential lifestyle and economic benefits. Skinny, you and I need some hard facts if we are going to win this fight for an 8th St (or even a 15th St) Streetcar, and we do not have the facts we need to make our case. I don't think either line (8th St NE/SE or 15th St NE/SE) is going to happen before I am cold and in the grave.
by Trulee Pist on Feb 12, 2012 2:11 pm • link • report
arm: The problem in Ward 3 is not that the residents are deprived of transportation funding, it's that it's directed towards vehicular uses and keeping things the same. The streets in Northwest are very well maintained and beautified, compared with the rest of the city. It's just that the politically influential in the area don't yet see a need for bikes or transit.
by Neil Flanagan on Feb 13, 2012 1:25 am • link • report
It just makes too much sense. 8th street objectors be damned. Just look at a map. If you could draw a North/South streetcar line in Capitol Hill-without knowing who lives where..you would draw it on 8th. It is without a doubt the natural bisect of the hill. I guess an argument could be made for 10th, but then it places you between two metros. Not the best plan. The only reason 8th is now losing steam is because my neighbors don't want it there..and they have influence. They are being short sighted. To be honest I wouldn't mind an additional streetcar line up 15th either. But I think the first one should be the 8th line.
Hopefully the developers of the Specialty Hospital of Washington can put their weight behind the 8th street line..as that will help w/selling units, solve part of the parking issues with adding 140 units, and make getting north south on the hill much much easier.
by whoa_now on Feb 13, 2012 10:54 am • link • report
I'm convinced once that backbone is built, every neighborhood will be clamoring to get on board. All these hyperbolic arguments against a fairly proven and innocuous form of transportation will be deflated. Once people see for themselves that the vehicles are aesthetically pleasing and quiet, that the wire is innocuous, that the trees and parking is unmolested, that car traffic is still flowing, people will wonder what all the fear was about.
by Skinny on Feb 13, 2012 6:09 pm • link • report
A streetcar on 8th is more for barracks row tourists; on 15th, more for neighborhood residents.
by goldfish on Feb 14, 2012 8:11 am • link • report
by Graham on Feb 15, 2012 9:17 am • link • report
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