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Breakfast links: Put up your dukes


Photo by KWDesigns on Flickr.
No "plan," but a strong intention: There's no specific "plan" to give half of Reservation 13 for a Redskins practice facility, but Mayor Gray is set on bringing the team back to DC, and was surprised last night that neighbors didn't agree. (City Paper)

Loudoun wavers on Silver: Loudoun County has 30 days to decide whether to pull out of the Silver Line project. The county would have to pay $260 million for its two stations. (WTOP)

Gentrification is complicated: Some longtime black residents of H Street are happy to see the neighborhood adding white people as well. Maybe gentrification isn't the simple sound bite we're used to. (Post)

Better bus service coming: Metro will improve bus service along some high-volume routes. Other changes will try to offset the effect of Rush Plus reducing train service directly between the Pentagon and Rosslyn. (Post)

Real-time signs won't innovate: In its RFP for new real-time bus arrival signs, WMATA calls for a proven, already-implemented technology. That means there won't be much innovation or use of open source technology. (Raschke on Transport)

What does a designer say about the new map?: Designer Cameron Booth, whose entry won our Redesign the Metro Map contest, critiques the new official map. There's a lot to like, but the alignment between items is mess.

BRAC II out for now: Though the Pentagon wants it, Senator Claire McCaskill has blocked legislation to do another round of BRAC closures. For now, that means the region's bases are safe from closure, or traffic nightmares. (DefenseNews)

And...: Could DC be the next game development hotspot? (WBJ) ... Georgetown Park will stop being a mall, may get big box stores. (Georgetown Met.) ... Akridge has canceled a mixed-use development plan in Falls Church. (FCNP) ... A developer worries that a downsized Wheaton redevelopment plan won't be viable. (Gazette)

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David Edmondson is a transportation and urban affairs enthusiast living in Mount Vernon Square. He blogs about Marin County, California, at The Greater Marin

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I was at the Res 13 meeting last night, and you (and Lydia) are exactly right. The mayor, and Jack Evans, and Michael Brown kept repeating "we'd like to bring the Redskins back" and waited for the applause. To say it fell flat was is an understatement. I was frankly shocked at how bad these politicians were at politics. It was a chance for them to sell their plan, or at least reassure a nervous and frustrated audience, and they spent the time lecturing us.

My favorite was when Jack Evans thought the audience was skewed because we weren't Redskins fans. Guess being a resident and taxpayer is no longer enough.

by Tim Krepp on Mar 23, 2012 9:18 am • linkreport

Real shame about the Georgetown Mall. I use it regularly to go from the canal level up to Dean and Deluca. Welcome in the summer for the AC and shade. But given that M st is bascially an outside mall, what are you going to do?

The bigger impact of "rush plus" will be orange line residents trying to get to DCA. Thanks Silver lIne! You've made it harder to metro to our nearby airport.

by charlie on Mar 23, 2012 9:27 am • linkreport

That meeting was a hot mess. They were willing to talk specifics when they wanted, but mostly spent trying to distract the audience (Eastern branch B&G club? That has nothing to do with Res. 13.) or pleading ignorance, like not knowing how the area is zoned. They also made no economic argument whatsoever for doing so. Gray, Evans and Alexander didn't even try, and Brown vaguely alluded to creating year-round jobs, but there was no discussion of the fact that although a training facility might create a few jobs, it wouldn't create nearly as many as a mixed use development!

Tim is absolutely right, all four of them were absolutely tone deaf last night. They've clearly already decided what they want. It'll be up to those of use in Wards 6 and 7 to fight like hell to stop it. I'm glad there were so many people out there and that we're, if not in front of this, at least ready to deal with it.

by Joe on Mar 23, 2012 9:31 am • linkreport

That is horrible news about the Gtown Park mall. It was really beautiful inside and there are plenty of creative ways they could have reinvigorated the space and drawn people in from the street. Now what was a unique space with many possibilities becomes Target/Bloomingdales? Bleh. I was really hoping Eataly would occupy the entire bottom floor and put some seats by the canal. That would have been a perfect draw and allowed for filling the other spaces with specialty retail. The Mall also provided shelter from the heat/rain and bathrooms for shoppers. It was just an all around nice indoor public space. But I guess it's all about the bottom line..

by Johnny on Mar 23, 2012 9:40 am • linkreport

What good was that Post article featuring Uncle Ruckus?

Is anyone else tired of Vornado buying malls, destroying them and then sitting on them?

by selxic on Mar 23, 2012 9:46 am • linkreport

The Reservation 13 meeting was surreal.

The Mayor's arrogance boggled my mind. (Memo to DC elected officials: DC is a jurisdiction where many of your constituents are smarter and better educated than you are.)

Jack Evans clearly doesn't get it. He kept trying to make the it an issue of Redskins fans versus non-Redskins fans. I like the Redskins as much as the next guy. But that's not the point Jack! The point is that when your constituents walk to the Metro, they walk through vibrant neighborhoods on streets lined with shops and services. When I walk to the Metro, I walk up a one-way street (19th)that is a freeway for Maryland commuters and past a vast and dilapidated surface parking lot for DC Government employees, most of whom are Maryland residents (aka freeloaders).

Redeveloping Reservation 13 is clearly a difficult task. I get that. But the Stadium Armory Metro Station has been open nearly 40 years! And there has been a master plan for the site for nearly a decade. Think of what Arlington would have done with a similar parcel of land by now.

Brian Flahaven was the star of the show. You could tell towards the end that Gray and Evans were frustrated at having been so thoroughly schooled in the game of retail politics by a mere ANC Commissioner. (Brown and Alexander were too clueless to realize they had been schooled.)

As for Alexander: what a joke. I wrote a check for Tom Brown immediately after the meeting. If that is the quality of representation that Ward 7 gets, then all of us who live in Hill East should thank our lucky stars (and our ANC Commissioners)that our neighborhood remains in Ward 6!

BTW, if the Mayor and his cabal of second-rate councilmembers are not talking to the Redskins, then what the hell was Brig Owens doing at the meeting? Not only is he a former Redskins great, he is a commercial real estate developer. I guarantee you that he is the link between the City and Dan Snyder (who loves to surround himself with Redskins from the glory days in the vainglorious hope that somehow the glory will rub off). Repeat of previous memo to Gray, Evans et al: even many of the yokels in Hill East are smarter and better educated than you are.

by rg on Mar 23, 2012 9:47 am • linkreport

My question is, if Loudoun County opts out how will this effect the tracks that will connect the line to the yard and shop that is more then a mile and half northwest of the truncated terminal station at the airport? Will MWAA built the alignment as originally planed to the yard lead junction and leave provision to allow the Loudoun County stations to built at a later date or do something else?

by Sand Box John on Mar 23, 2012 9:47 am • linkreport

@Sand Box John

Given restrictions on what you can build in runway approach zones and the existing wetlands in the area, I don't know that there's anyplace you could move the yard lead to (or the yard itself), but perhaps you could see a real shift in the rest of the track geometry.

You never want to box yourself in with a transit terminus - always leave the possibility for further expansion. So, I could see a two track aerial structure north along Autopilot Dr, but then transitioning into a one-track yard lead at grade, but not within the Greenway center median - if that makes sense.

There's also the question of whether any of that would actually save costs. Obviously, if it doesn't, then just build it as planned and have the yard lead be the end of the line.

by Alex B. on Mar 23, 2012 9:54 am • linkreport

Maybe because I never saw it in its hey day but I don't think I'll shed any tears over the georgetown mall. It did look nice inside but that doesn't actually do anything if there aren't any viable stores inside except for the ones that front M street.

I was also confused about the gentrification article. It declared a premise of "its not about race" and then spent the whole article talking about how race still matters yet did not talk about any of the systemic issues that make it still matter except very glibly.

by Canaan on Mar 23, 2012 9:55 am • linkreport

So is the gist of the meeting that DC hasn't had any real conversations w/the Redskins on building a training facility?

They didn't present any plans for a facility? No renderings, planners, etc?

I'm confused.

by HogWash on Mar 23, 2012 10:03 am • linkreport

What, exactly, is the supposed economic benefit of a practice facility that sits idle 250 or more days a year?

BTW, if anyone can make Dan Snyder look like a savvy negotiator who never gives up more than he should, it's Jack Evans and the Mayor.

by ah on Mar 23, 2012 10:06 am • linkreport

It declared a premise of "its not about race" and then spent the whole article talking about how race still matters yet did not talk about any of the systemic issues that make it still matter except very glibly.

I was equally confused.

by HogWash on Mar 23, 2012 10:07 am • linkreport

But what if the Redskins hired Andres Duany? Or rather the mayor and co. should recognize that they're probably not going to convince the residents of this one.

by Canaan on Mar 23, 2012 10:13 am • linkreport

@HogWash
So is the gist of the meeting that DC hasn't had any real conversations w/the Redskins on building a training facility?
They didn't present any plans for a facility? No renderings, planners, etc?

They presented their idea which is basically ditch the Res13 plan agreed upon years ago so they can keep pursuing this pie-in-the-sky idea of bringing the Redskins training camp to the area. And it seems like nobody at the meeting wanted the training camp except the councilmembers. They have talked to the team. They have not created a formal plan.

I know that in your never-ending quest for optimism you're going to spin this as "see, there's no plan for a training facility! Isn't that great? Nothing to see here!" But it's not great. The councilmembers seem bent on taking a plan that's already been presented, discussed, and decided upon and throwing it out the window.

by MLD on Mar 23, 2012 10:22 am • linkreport

@HogWash, yup, we were too. The real anger from a lot of us isn't the Redskins per se. It's that we have a Master Plan, agreed upon years ago, that hasn't been acted upon. The Mayor and others seem to think it's back to the drawing board time.

by Tim Krepp on Mar 23, 2012 10:22 am • linkreport

Note on the cancellation of the Falls Church project - as the article states, the issue was the weakness of the commercial part impeding financing. There is demand for the residences. That's an issue with mixed use in a regional economy where the residential market is much tighter than the commercial market, esp in the suburbs where the office market is weaker than in DC/

by AWalkerInTheCity on Mar 23, 2012 10:48 am • linkreport

@Tim, I would have been pissed if I had gone. I was under the impression that they were going to engage the community on any possible plan but based on what I've read, they didn't present one at all but waxed affectionately about the Redskins being back in DC. Seems like a waste of time.

I've read about the Master Plan but since I wasn't at the meeting, what did they offer as a possible alternative/amendment to the current plan. I don't know enough about Res 13 but is the community justified in being angry that Gray hasn't moved the plan forward?

I don't get how you go into a meeting w/even less information than when you went in. Really useless and I HATE useless meetings..even at work.

by HogWash on Mar 23, 2012 10:50 am • linkreport

Re: Metro Rush-Plus mitigation. Although it would require an undesirable mode shift for some, it does seem like a Crystal City-Rosslyn bus service, timed for the new "gaps" in rail coverage, could work. With 110 right there, the road network is there to facilitate a direct connection. Ditto for Pentagon/Clarendon -- like an ART 42 express timed for the blue line gaps.

Truth be told, most of the time I'd settle for a CaBi transfer station at Mem Bridge and the MVT and a completed bike trail along Wash. Blvd.

by Arl Fan on Mar 23, 2012 10:55 am • linkreport

Hogwash, Gray didn't offer any amendments. Only the idea that a council passed master plan with years of community input may need to be revisited so they can fit in their pet projects. Its clear that all the officials are drooling at anything football related. Even if it means the destruction of city services, residential, city income, affordable housing, and health care services for residents. They did say that the training facility could have a medical facility for the study of concussion related sports injuries.

From my understanding in 2008 there were four developers bidding on the master plan project. DC didn't pick any of them and let it sit. DC then decided to scale down the project to two parcels of land, two developers are ready to go, DC just needs to pick a developer to start.

Much work seems to have occurred since the adoption of the master plan, including a complicated land transfer so DC would own the land, and writing up very specific zoning regulations to allow for building height to increase as the land gets closer to the water's edge.

by ETD on Mar 23, 2012 11:06 am • linkreport

The other thing I will say about any potential football stadium/training facility and its "transit accessibility" is this. The existing FedEx Field already has transit access. It's about what I would expect for a football stadium. It's a long walk, but there were tons of people using the Metro to get there - Metro cars were packed and the walk to the stadium was crowded. So the transit option for the current stadium is adequate enough for something that hosts 10 games a year.

The problem with taking transit to the game, as we discovered when we got there, is that FedEx bans backpacks, bags, etc, period, no exceptions. The Nats don't do this, DC United doesn't do this. So how exactly are transit users supposed to bring a blanket, gloves, hat, etc to the game (because it's NOVEMBER)? Of course we just waited until the security lady got distracted and just walked in. But what a stupid policy. Dan Snyder doesn't deserve a transit-oriented stadium if he's going to have policies that make it as hard as possible to use transit.

But I think we've discussed how football stadiums can't be really urban a zillion times on this website, so the details don't need to be hashed over again and again.

by MLD on Mar 23, 2012 11:08 am • linkreport

Georgetown downgrades. Not good news.

I wish the football team had never left, but it's questionable at best to be spending energy on it now to get them back.

The bus information link was not useful since it did not mention lines.

by Jazzy on Mar 23, 2012 11:14 am • linkreport

Yes, that was a puzzling piece on WMATA buses. WMATA doesn't have a press release up, but the board agenda item on the Blue Line bus service is here:
http://wmata.com/about_metro/board_of_directors/board_docs/032212_CSOFY13BusEnhancements.pdf
It appears that it's an extension of the 9E/10E lines, funded by Arlington + Alexandria.

by Payton on Mar 23, 2012 11:41 am • linkreport

@ETD, did he say anything about how their pet project will fit into the MP? I'm just not seeing what new details were provided and ultimately question the point of the meeting.

by HogWash on Mar 23, 2012 11:45 am • linkreport

re: Res 13 ...

Would somebody please clarify, or call the Mayor out on his no-clothes, that this is not "bringing the Redskins back to DC." A practice facility represents a minimal presence in the city, and is entirely unnecessary to begin with.

by Jack Love on Mar 23, 2012 12:01 pm • linkreport

Saw this in Roll Call:

If Gray does push forward, he will have a partner in Councilmember Jack Evans (D), who represents Ward 2. Evans said he is confident that a Redskins facility could work in tandem with other developments and the master plan’s vision for the area.

“There [would be] plenty of room for other things,” said Evans, who also stressed that nothing has yet been decided.

He told Roll Call he imagines a situation where RFK Stadium would be converted into a new Redskins stadium to sit near a new Reservation 13 development of “four practice fields, headquarters, training, hotel, a Hall of Fame and a concussion center.”

And while critics say a Redskins training ground would not contribute to the area’s quality of life or economic development, Evans said his vision, although a distant one, would absolutely be a boon.

“The Redskins are the city’s most marketable franchise,” he said.

We really are ruled by 6-year-old children trapped in the bodies of adults. Please, DC voters: grow up and elect some menschen.

by oboe on Mar 23, 2012 12:01 pm • linkreport

@Payton - Thanks for providing the link. The attachments are a bit confusing on that document as well (i.e. both directions labeled as "Southbound 10E"). Extending from Pentagon will add an additional bus for bus riders transferring at Pentagon for Crystal City and vice versa.

It's definitely possible to drive from CC to Rosslyn on that stretch of 110 as fast as the Metro can take you. A decent option for those who are going to be on the surface at Rosslyn, not so great to transfer to/from the Orange Line there.

by Arl Fan on Mar 23, 2012 12:14 pm • linkreport

@HogWash

It seems to me the point of the meeting was that the CMs were hoping to get a lot of people agreeing with them and cheering on the general idea of the training facility. Instead they found that there was a pretty solid opposition to the training facility from people at the meeting.

by MLD on Mar 23, 2012 12:23 pm • linkreport

@Hogwash
He stressed that there are no concrete plans, and nothing to show. But they were willing to talk about its concussion health center, job creation, and its possibility of a catalyst for development. The neighborhood thought there was going to be some specific details, but he didn't bring anything. If anything, the point of the meeting should, and did try to at times, focus on why the city hasn't chosen a developer yet for the master plan. Hopefully it did get them to move forward on picking one of the two developers for the smaller parcels of land to be developed.

At an informational meeting, someone had some numbers for its acreage, but I don't have it written down. If you look at the current facility and the space at reservation 13, you can get an idea of the scale.

Current Training Facility

Reservation 13

by ETD on Mar 23, 2012 12:30 pm • linkreport

It seems to me the point of the meeting was that the CMs were hoping to get a lot of people agreeing with them and cheering on the general idea of the training facility.

Knowing the coverage the idea has gotten, they're rather silly for thinking that (if that was their point).

@ETD, Gray should be ashamed of himself for not being prepared to discuss details since the training facility was supposed to be the focus on the discussion.

by HogWash on Mar 23, 2012 12:43 pm • linkreport

On second thought, was the point to discuss "plans for R13" or "building a training facility?" If the former, they advertised it all..all wrong.

by HogWash on Mar 23, 2012 12:45 pm • linkreport

Knowing the coverage the idea has gotten, they're rather silly for thinking that (if that was their point).

Yes, they are rather silly for thinking that. It's pretty clear they all have/had this idea that everyone wants it except a few naysayers, since Gray/Evans/Alexander/etc seem to parrot the same "everywhere I go people want the 'Skins back" and "the 'Skins are DC's team" lines all the time.

These are the kinds of things we should be using in deciding who to vote for. If the CMs are delusional about this issue, what other community wants are they just not understanding/refusing to understand? See our discussion the other day about Yvette Alexander and stalled development projects.

by MLD on Mar 23, 2012 12:58 pm • linkreport

Alex B.
The geometry of the east yard lead alignment as shown in the FEIS on pages 9, 14-16 in the Plans and Profile (54.4 MB PDF file) flies over the elevated alignment of the main line tracks that drop in the the median of the Dulles Greenway.

We haven't seen the preliminary engineering for Phase II to see what cost cutting changes may have been made from the FEIS along the alignment between the elevated station at the airport and the yard lead junction.

Hell we don't even know if the pocket track at the north end of Autopilot Drive is still in the plan.

by Sand Box John on Mar 23, 2012 1:53 pm • linkreport

What, exactly, is the supposed economic benefit of a practice facility that sits idle 250 or more days a year?

ah, I'm going to give part of an answer to this, but let me preface it by saying that I think the training facility is a bad choice.

Now, here is how someone explained it to me. Players go to the training facility for something like 200 days a year, and to the stadium like 20. So which one do you think they choose to live near? Most Redskins, according to my friend, live in Northern Virginia to be close to the training facility.

If the training facility were in DC, they would - logic goes - want to live in DC. Then we would be able to tax those fat paychecks and the paychecks of other facility employees.

I don't know how accurate any of that is, but if it's all true there is at least some economic argument for it.

Still, this is a bad location for it, and the price is almost surely too high.

by David C on Mar 23, 2012 4:49 pm • linkreport

So, forgo 30 acres of high density development, complete with income taxpaying residents and commercial property taxes - OR - build a training facility on the hopes that some of the NFL players might chose to live in DC?

I'm pretty sure there's a reason why so many professional athletes (regardless of where they play their games) maintain their legal state of residence in Florida, despite having other properties in other cities. And it's not just the weather.

I mean, every other person who works in DC also wants to live here, right? Bang-up economic growth strategy.

by Alex B. on Mar 23, 2012 4:55 pm • linkreport

@david C.

The calculus for bringing redskin's paychecks to DC is patently stupid. Whereas the current facility is out in East BFE, and is only painfully accessible from DC or MD, the Hill East site is a hop, skip, or jump from DC, VA & MD.

I'm sure most athletes will have their accountants calculate the driving cost vs tax cost of VA vs. DC and continue to opt for VA. It's a no brainer.

by effinCM's on Mar 23, 2012 4:56 pm • linkreport

It's pretty clear they all have/had this idea that everyone wants it except a few naysayers, since Gray/Evans/Alexander/etc seem to parrot the same "everywhere I go people want the 'Skins back" and "the 'Skins are DC's team" lines all the time.

I'm not sure if that's really clear. But I just really really really refuse to believe that they thought they were speaking before an amenable group. I haven't seen any group express excitement..much less interest.

@DavidC, that's actually a reasonable thing to expect. Think about it, why would they continue live in VA and travel all the way to Largo for gameday? Now whether there'll be enough income derived from the taxes is another story..a questionable one at that. But moving to the city? Yeah, makes sense. Some might even choose PG.

by HogWash on Mar 23, 2012 5:01 pm • linkreport

effinCM's and AlexB, well, this isn't my position, but it's not exactly "patently stupid" to believe that work location plays a part in people deciding where to live. I don't think there is anything radical about that at all. Especially since NFL players tend to be in their 20's and people in their 20's tend to prefer the city. C'mon, you're making HogWash look reasonable here (no offence Hogwash).

Do a lot of NFL players maintain a residence in Florida? I was unaware of that. What percentage is it?

Is it possible to live and work in DC for 6 months a year and not pay taxes here?

by David C on Mar 23, 2012 5:09 pm • linkreport

@HogWash

Why do you refuse to believe it? In every article about the practice facility these councilmembers and the mayor are always quoted as saying "people are always telling me they want the 'Skins back!" To me that says they think pretty much everybody is on their side.

You haven't seen any group express interest or excitement and yet these councilmembers and the mayor, who represent DC and are beholden to the voters, are all gung-ho about it. Doesn't that say there's a mismatch in their perception of the issue?

by MLD on Mar 23, 2012 5:10 pm • linkreport

@MLD, I get the idea behind being the biggest cheerleader in the room. You can try to hype it up. But I just refuse to believe that the "people" they all felt who've been clamoring to bring the skins back were the same people who were in attendance. I just can't imagine ANY politician being that blindsided. Nothing, and I mean nothing in the news could've given them the impression that the community was on board.

by HogWash on Mar 23, 2012 5:20 pm • linkreport

@David C

Just because a player might maintain a domicile in the city, that doesn't mean that residence is their state of residence for tax purposes.

http://www.kramerlevin.com/files/Publication/d9d00a3f-cab0-40c9-82c1-7c00b2b30c96/Presentation/PublicationAttachment/efc52b44-5556-440b-a6e4-067b4ef22d59/NYLJJones.pdf

Also, remember that salary isn't their only income. Game salary might count as being earned at the stadium (and many states have set up special laws to capture that, both for home and visiting players), but also things like signing bonuses, endorsement income, etc.

Finally, DC isn't a state. DC can't tax income at its source, as we all know. The only way this presents a fiscal benefit is if DC convinces these players to make their DC their state of residence for tax purposes (unlikely). For NFL players, I believe they get their salary pro-rated for each game or something similar, so practice location won't matter for the state where that income is earned.

If DC wanted to put together a broader millionaire attraction strategy, that would be different. Likewise, if they wanted to convince Congress to alter DC's ban on taxing income at the source, that would be another thing. But as an argument in favor of a training facility, it's a poor rationalization and a very weak argument.

by Alex B. on Mar 23, 2012 5:51 pm • linkreport

I was originally of the opinion that a practice facility might entice some players to live in DC but then I realized that they could just use the tax savings from living in VA to rent or buy Also, sweet city residence and still have money left over. Also, I don't believe there are many Wizards players who live in DC.

by Falls Church on Mar 23, 2012 6:38 pm • linkreport

Georgetown Park's demalling is old news. The mall began to decline in the mid-90s, first losing A-list tenants and then losing tenants, period. The glitzy faux Victorian interior is a mess to traverse, not to mention dated and difficult to update.

Selling an ancillary part of the Deadskins, a team with the most racist history in pro football to River East just sounds absurd.

by Rich on Mar 23, 2012 6:40 pm • linkreport

[This comment has been deleted for violating the comment policy.]

by David C on Mar 23, 2012 10:44 pm • linkreport

Falls Church, you're right. No one with any money lives in DC, all the rich people live in Virginia. Which is why the most expensive house in the whole District is only $50,000. In fact of the 18 local billionaires, nearly all of them - and by that I mean 4 - live in Virginia. You sure have it figured out.

by David C on Mar 23, 2012 10:53 pm • linkreport

David C:
I get you were going for sarchasm, but I notice that all the rest on the list appear to live in MD. There's one DC resident listed. So I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

by Lawton on Mar 24, 2012 3:53 am • linkreport

Hallelujah! Loudoun County pulling out of the Silver Line will help avoid exacerbating the BART-ification of Metro (sprawl by rail) which is a win-win in my book. Maybe they can put the cost savings into putting the Airport station back underground again where it belongs. A guy can dream....

Do it Loudoun!!!

by Reza on Mar 24, 2012 5:35 am • linkreport

Lawton, there are two points.

1. Per capita, the wealthy seem to choose DC and NoVa at about the same rate.
2. The rich seem to choose MD over VA, despite VA's rep for lower taxes. Which means lower taxes don't matter enough.

by David C on Mar 24, 2012 6:25 pm • linkreport

"The rich seem to choose MD over VA, despite VA's rep for lower taxes. Which means lower taxes don't matter enough."

When I was growing up Montgomery was the richest of the DC suburbs (when measured by median income) by a significant margin. Now it's Loudon. (and within Mont's own weight class, Fairfax is richer by the same measure).

by Kolohe on Mar 25, 2012 1:28 pm • linkreport

Median income has almost nothing to do with where "the rich" are. You can talk about what counties attract rich people, and what counties have highest median incomes, and both are interesting discussions, but they're entirely different discussions.

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/13728/we-are-the-50-stories-misinterpret-median-incomes/

by David Alpert on Mar 25, 2012 3:15 pm • linkreport

David C,

First off, billionaires have no rational reason to consider money or taxes in any of their decisions since they're so rich. None of the Redskins players are billionaires, so it's an irrelevant data point.

Second your point about where the wealthy live today is irrelevant. A more relevant question is where do new wealthy residents who move to the area choose to live. Given that Loudoun is both the richest county in the country and one of the fastest growing, it seems like new wealthy residents are choosing NoVa.

Yet, none of this really matters because we're talking about pro athletes, a very specific group of people with unique characteristics. I don't have any data handy but it doesn't seem like many Wizards, Nats, or Caps players live in DC. Maybe it's taxes or maybe it's something else but I don't think it's commuting time. So, the point is that a practice facility in DC isn't likely to cause a significant shift in where redskins players live.

The rich seem to choose MD over VA, despite VA's rep for lower taxes. Which means lower taxes don't matter enough.

While Montgomery's and Fairfax's percent of households making more than $200K are roughly the same at 10% vs. 11%, Loudoun is far ahead at 18%.

by Falls Church on Mar 25, 2012 3:29 pm • linkreport

billionaires have no rational reason to consider money or taxes in any of their decisions since they're so rich.

And not considering money is how billionaires became billionaires in the first place.

by David C on Mar 26, 2012 6:12 pm • linkreport

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