Comments on Despite officials' claims, DC hasn't reached universal pre-K - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by goldfish

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 12:34:41 EDT

@Mary Melchior: the normal way the economy allocates a scarce resource is how much a customer is willing to pay: the law of supply and demand. In the old days, the better schools were in the better, i.e., more expensive, neighborhoods and the school resource was allocated based on money -- that is, ability to buy nice housing. If you did not have much $, you could get into a good school by being first in line. Parents would stand in line all night -- the same as trying to get tickets for a rock concert -- to get a slot at Oyster.

Nowadays, the resource is allocated by lottery. Thus the parents that are most prepared and best able to game the system have the advantage. One cute example: Because it is at capacity with kids from its feeder schools, it is impossible to get into Deal via the lottery. Parents wanting to get their kid into that school rent a closet in Georgetown for the sake of its mailing address and enroll their son or daughter into a feeder elementary school such as Hyde. These on-the-ball parents start to think about where they want to go 2-3 years in advance.

Parents will need to adapt to the new system, which involves a lot more legwork on their part than the way it worked before, which was just show up and the nearest school on the first day of class. Is this any more "fair" than the way kids got into the choice schools was before? I leave that up to you to decide. I am only trying to be accurate in describing the system as it exists.

Comment by Mary Melchior

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 11:46:34 EDT

@ goldfish; I understand what you mean by parents asleep at the switch, but I don't like the terminology because it implies a failure on the part of the parents. The way information is distributed on the lottery assumes you have an internet connection, very bad assumption. It assumes you are thinking when your child is 2 and 5 months about school 8 months later. It is a small research project to find out all this and not fair to assume all parents even know they have to do it. Used to be your kid was the age to enroll in school and you showed up the day school started at the school closest to your home. Not even remotely the case any more.

Comment by goldfish

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:18:39 EDT

One more thing: how many pre-K slots are taken by people that live in ward 9? There are a number of cars dropping kids off at school with Maryland tags.

Comment by goldfish

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:05:33 EDT

@ Mary Melchior: Parents asleep at the switch is the principal shortcoming with the lottery. Many parents of 2-year-olds are loaded down with day-to-day concerns and don't wake up to school placement (which starts in Oct-November) until too late. To reach these people, DCPS and the charters need to do a better job of getting the word out -- such as school information night -- which was packed, but nevertheless should be MUCH larger and attended.

Only then will this sort of data show that there are not enough pre-K slots in DC.

Comment by Mary Melchior

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 01:10:12 EDT

A couple of experiences from my local school. You only get on the wait list if you apply during the lottery. This doesn't count families that weren't aware they could apply at the time of the lottery. This means the number who aren't getting placements who want one is can be under counted. The second is that the lottery system creates advantages to the well connected. If you didn't know that you needed to sign your kids up for a spot back in January or February you don't have a spot and aren't counted as having unmet need. Children from the highest need families who are likely to benefit the most from this policy may be the people least likely to be getting placements.

Also having a wait list doesn't mean you'll get slots. My school had families on the wait list two years in a row and was not allowed to add 3 year old slots.

Comment by goldfish

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 08:50:33 EDT

Bottom line: if this data is to be believed, there ARE enough pre-K slots in DC. The difficulty of getting a slot is due to the perversions of the lottery system. Having played that system a few times, this sorta rings true.

The alternative: in the olden days when kids ONLY went to the in-boundary school, people did not have to contend with the mysteries of the lotteries, and the slots were assured.

I agree with the premise of the post: better data is needed.

Comment by dcd

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:04:58 EDT

The point there isn't that pre-K programs need to start calling wait-listed parents when spots free up in 2nd half of the year, the point is that these aren't available slots at all. How many of the 76 available slots in the city's 155 programs opened up in 2nd half of year? We don't know because the audit isn't done in October, and because OSSE won't fund a household survey.

You may be right that there are no spots at the beginning of the school year - hell, you probably are right - but you simply can't say, "we don't know how many spots opened up in the second half of the year," and also unequivocally state in the same paragraph "point is that these aren't available slots at all." If you don't know, you don't know.

@ David: Thanks, it's fixed.

Comment by Ken Archer

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:54:20 EDT

Leaving aside problems with not callign wait-listed parents for open slots, which certainly needs to be addressed

Comment by David Alpert

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:51:38 EDT

dcd: Sorry, I didn't realize it was autoplaying. I have a Firefox extension (Flashblock) which stops Flash and Silverlight from running on web pages until/unless I click to activate them. I've changed it so I think it now doesn't autoplay. Please let me know if it's still happening for you.

oboe: I think your points are right but would disagree with calling them "holes." I tell prospective contributors that blogging is the start of a conversation, not the end, and that posts aren't supposed to be the final word on every aspect of a subject.

The fact is that OSSE's own auditors don't think they have universal pre-K, but it's true that there's no real good definition. Maloney's doesn't really make sense. So we need data and a better definition. I hope Celine's and Ken's article triggers the conversation to get this information.

Comment by oboe

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:43:08 EDT

@Ken Archer,

I'm not trying to rebut the thesis of your article, just raising some of the questions that popped out at me. For example, in my daughter's school, when the number of in-boundary applicants exceeded the "capacity", they added another PK-4 class. If that's common practice, then it's perfectly natural that most schools are "at or above capacity". Something (say, a balloon) that expands as you fill it is always "at capacity".

What I'd like to see is some evidence that large numbers of kids are being denied reasonable placement in the PS/PK system: Not that they wanted to send their kid to Brent but were denied, and they subsequently turned down a placement at JO Wilson.

Again, I'm only going by my limited personal experience, and I'm willing to believe the city's handling of PS/PK could be better. Just saying there are a couple of holes here.

Comment by dcd

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:35:36 EDT

But even looking at the entire city, 76 free spaces around the city's 155 pre-K programs is obviously not universal.

I don't get this point. Leaving aside problems with not callign wait-listed parents for open slots, which certainly needs to be addressed, if there are open slots in pre-K, that means that kids could go, and don't. That seems to be a facially plausible definition of universal pre-K. Obviously, geography plays a large role in this, and some of the capacity issues should be ironed out. But if you're using wards as the appropriate geographic unit (and I don't necessarily think that's the best way to go about it), it's only an issue in Wards 2 and 7.

On a separate note, autoplaying video files in posts are REALLY annoying.

Comment by Ken Archer

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:43:53 EDT

"parents not getting into their local school" shouldn't necessarily be the litmus test of whether we've achieved universal pre-K

No one is saying that. Many of the wards have an entire ward that is at or above capacity.

But even looking at the entire city, 76 free spaces around the city's 155 pre-K programs is obviously not universal.

Also, many of those 76 free spaces aren't actually available. The audit was done at the end of the 2010-2011 school year (unlike the OSSE enrollment audit which is done in Oct) and the auditor said a problem with this is that schools don't contact people on waiting list when students leave in 2nd half of the year.

Comment by David Alpert

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:43:39 EDT

oboe: I assume you mean Francis-Stevens on that list and not Ross, since Ross is the one that's close.

I don't know the answer. I think this would be good data for DCPS and OSSE to release, or a council committee to ask for. If they can get past the claim that pre-K is universal, then maybe there can be a serious conversation about where pre-K is at and where it needs to be.

Comment by DC Parent

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:41:56 EDT

I think the article is a bit misleading; many daycares recieve OSSE money though the Pre-K Program Assistance grants. Their pre-k services are free to residents that qualify for subsidies, and most are accredited prek programs under the same guidelines as public schools (NAEYC, etc). I also think that it's a bit slanted to keep this out of the conversation, as many parents are ready to send their non potty trained 3 year old to a public school.

Comment by oboe

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 16:31:28 EDT

@David Alpert,

I wonder if any spots are available at Marie Reed, Ross, Thompson, etc... Those are all less than a mile away. They could all be full as well, but that gets back to my point that "parents not getting into their local school" shouldn't necessarily be the litmus test of whether we've achieved universal pre-K.

Comment by David Alpert

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:52:23 EDT

I know that at my neighborhood school (Ross), some people who live in-boundary aren't able to get their kids into pre-K. So that's at least one more example of where in-boundary kids aren't getting in.

Comment by oboe

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:44:18 EDT

@dcd makes a good point about enrolled versus applied. Also, "Est.pop. 3-4 y.o." is something of a distraction in this context, since not everyone is interested in sending their kid to DCPS pre-school--or pre-school at all, for that matter.

There are popular Ward 6 schools where the siblings of OOB kids aren't getting in to a given school's pre-K program. But from what I've read and observed, usually accommodations are made for in-boundary kids.

Very well-written piece though. Good work...

Comment by dcd

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 15:10:14 EDT

There are not slots available for kids at the DCPS schools that are not the child's "local" school.

The chart in your post disagrees. It states that capacity is 9,967, and enrollment is 9,891. This doesn't address the issue of where those open slots are, but appears that therre are (or were) open slots - 76, to be precise.

@thm: At popular Ward 3 schools, there are in-bound kids who don't get in to prek, as well as siblings of OOB kids.

Comment by Ken Archer

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:47:59 EDT

I would think a good metric to determine whether they actually achieve "universal" PS/PK would be whether or not there are any in-boundary kids left on wait lists.

That's a good idea. Unfortunately, while lotteries for DCPS are run centrally, wait lists are managed by individual schools. Charter lotteries and wait lists are managed by individual schools. There would have to be some degree of centralization of wait list management to do this. But it's a good idea.

Comment by thm

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:39:05 EDT

@oboe--

My reading of the DCPS Lottery FAQ suggests that while it is in principle possible for there to be out-of-boundary PS/PK enrollments, it is unlikely. All interested in PS or PK need to enter the lottery, and after numbers are drawn, they go through the list offering seats to in-boundary kids. If they should not fill up all the slots with in-boundary kids, they'll go back to the top of the list and start offering slots to out-of-boundary kids. (In both steps, they give preference first for siblings of already-enrolled kids.)

I would imagine that every once in a while, someone applies to all the schools, comes up far down on their local school but very high up on an out-of-boundary school that, by some demographic quirk, has a few slots left for out-of-boundary kids. But the sense I get is that, in practice, all the slots and a good deal down in the wait list are in-boundary.

I would think a good metric to determine whether they actually achieve "universal" PS/PK would be whether or not there are any in-boundary kids left on wait lists.

Comment by Ken Archer

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:35:44 EDT

Are slots available to kids at other DCPS schools that are *not* their "local school"?

Celine's right. The problem is not just one's local school. Notice Ward 7, for example, which is at 111% capacity. The conclusive answer would come in the form of a survey, which the auditor wanted to do, but apparently OSSE couldn't afford it even though they left $6 million in early childhood budget unspent the year of the audit.

Comment by Ken Archer

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:26:13 EDT

Is that table from the audit? And how does it define pre-K program? Does that include only DCPS and Charter schools, or does it also include private daycare?

That table is from the 2011 pre-K capacity audit. It includes DCPS and charter pre-K programs, as well as licensed pre-K programs run by community-based organizations. It does not include private daycare, as that is private (this must be public, e.g. free) and is a daycare that is not licensed against an early children education facility.

Comment by Geoffrey Hatchard

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:22:53 EDT

great reporting, guys!

Comment by Celine

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:17:31 EDT

Oboe,
There are not slots available for kids at the DCPS schools that are not the child's "local" school.

Comment by goldfish

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:09:59 EDT

Is that table from the audit?

And how does it define pre-K program? Does that include only DCPS and Charter schools, or does it also include private daycare?

Comment by oboe

Mon, 11 Jun 2012 13:07:36 EDT

Many are finding their kids turned away from local schools.

I'm curious: Are slots available to kids at other DCPS schools that are *not* their "local school"? While it seems a stretch to say that "a district reaches universal pre-K when every school that can offer pre-K offers at least one class", it's equally disingenuous to say that we haven't achieved universal pre-K until every parent gets to put their child into whichever program they want, regardless of how many total slots are available.