Comments on Reversible pains - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by Joe in SS

Mon, 22 Dec 2008 20:38:11 EDT

Dave, I have to disagree with you on this one. I'll take it point by point. Driving - better signage on at the cross-streets, most notably Seminary/Georgia and Colesville/Dale would go a long way to fix most of the accidents. Surely someone has invented a stoplight that could turn off if the lane it hung over was not in service in that direction? I've never seen the downhill slog from Franklin to Sligo, then a 3 into 2 merge, be an issue. Traffic is heavy enough in both directions, even on holidays, to make it pretty obvious, and folks slow down enough between the end of Columbia Pike (at Northwest Branch), coming through Four Corners, and over the Beltway, that they aren't exactly flying. Walking - both of the examples you cite (Forest Glen and DTSS) are outside the area of reversible lanes on Georgia. On Colesville, there are crossings with *significant* green time for Fenton and Spring Streets. Any other crossing, last I checked would be called jaywalking, and be illegal. I don't think a mid-block crossing is necessary, but a mid-block light could be placed in front of the AFI, and run from noon to 11pm, I guess. Aesthetics - You have a point here, but Virginia has lots of pretty country lanes (VA 193, Waxpool Road, McLearen Road), and they don't look as pretty when you're not moving at all. If MoCo and the SHA deemed it a priority, they could surely place nicer lights up there, maybe similar to what you see on the Ben Franklin and Walt Whitman bridges in Philly. (But if they charge a $3.00 toll to leave DC, I am moving out.) Biking - once again, Sligo DOES have a median on one side, and on the other, the distance between the two islands for the turn lanes is less than 100 feet. A rail thin median (you'd still need a turn lane there, taking up most of the real estate) would not fit one bike. I've biked through there quite often and never had an issue. I also don't cross on the red light. Buses - How would further bogging down traffic in the peak direction make buses run more smoothly? I don't see the logic here. In short, there's only a three block stretch of Colesville that's designed to be walkable, and there are signalized crossings within 100 meters of any point along that strip. The same is true in DC, and I don't see anyone complaining about Connecticut Avenue, or any other similarly wide street there. On Georgia, unless someone can tunnel 16th Street through to the Beltway, that extra lane is critical, and there are few walkers patronizing the three gas stations and wholesale shops (the Woodside Deli has parking) on the east side. I think that an idea there would be to make Seminary Drive and Seminary Place one way in opposing directions. That could conceivably shorten the red light cycle on Georgia, and give peds a chance to cross at Seminary Place. To Tom Stock, the lights, amazingly, are synched in the rush hour direction fairly well along Georgia and Colesville, but there are just too many crossing thoroughfares inside the beltway. They all jam together in one place.

Comment by Tom Stock

Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:29:14 EDT

I've traveled between the Indian Spring neighborhood (near the YMCA) and the Silver Spring Metro for 17 years - to the Metro in the morning, to Indian Spring at night - variously by bus, car, and foot. One fundamental impediment to easing the flow along this corridor is the limited number of vehicle crossings over Sligo Creek. That's not going to change, so Montgomery County is faced with using other alternatives - and have yet to satisfactorily address congestion on Colesville Road. The reversible lanes often are overkill, creating a wide open roadway along which drivers speed like maniacs. Also, every evening, as one person pointed out, southbound traffic grinds to a shuddering halt. To my mind, the best idea is to look at Bethesda and improve on what they did. Use Spring and Colesville as one-way passages through and around downtown. This would have the added benefit of eliminating lanes of traffic along Colesville between say East West Hwy and Spring. Imagine - a pedestrian friendly space around S#itty Place, AFI, the Fillmore (if it ever arrives), etc. Wider sidewalks - outdoor cafes - you name it! Knowing full well that will never happen, my next best suggestion is to synchronize the lights through Silver Spring. Unsynched lights clog the roads even more than buses parked illegally clogging northbound lanes all the time. A great topic addressing an intractable problem.

Comment by Froggie

Sat, 13 Dec 2008 07:58:26 EDT

There's a mix of entities that would have to coordinate with each other in order to get something done, so in effect you'd have to complain to all four: - Silver Spring - Montgomery County - MD SHA (State Highway Administration) - MWCOG One more set of reversibles that the original poster missed: Pennsylvania Ave SE between Minnesota and Branch Ave. Though, curiously, these do not have overhead signals...just signage. Then of course there's the Canal Rd situation.

Comment by Springvale Roader

Fri, 12 Dec 2008 16:22:44 EDT

The reversible lanes are godawful. I was trapped in the far left lane once, at the interesection of Colesville and Dale, as a newbie to Silver Spring. Not only was it scary, but people were cursing me out and best of all, telling me to "MOVE!" when I was completely trapped and couldn't move if I wanted to (and I badly wanted to). I see people make mistakes all the time with these crazy lane changes. Surely there is a better way, but as Woodsider asks, who can we complain to?

Comment by Ben Ross

Fri, 12 Dec 2008 14:48:08 EDT

This is just one facet of Montgomery County's policy of optimizing roads to move as many vehicles as possible, rather than designing them to be shared by all users. The reversible lanes are not likely to change until the underlying policy changes. Due to the current flurry of interest in Bus Rapid Transit, improving the movement of buses may be a good lever at the moment to get at the basic policy issue. ACT has written a letter to the County Executive requesting specific changes in intersection management: http://www.actfortransit.org/archives/letters/2008Dec07LtrLeggett.pdf It would be helpful if people would write to the county executive - ocemail@montgomerycountymd.gov - to ask him to implement these bus priority improvements.

Comment by Woodsider

Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:55:18 EDT

Ok, so we and a zillion others agree that something has to be done...who do we lobby? Montgomery County? Colesville Rd. & Georgia are both MD state highways.

Comment by Jimmy

Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:36:57 EDT

I live in Silver Spring now and nearly every day I see people have near-accidents because they are headed into oncoming traffic or turning in a lane that should continue straight. I grew up in a rural town, and years ago I was about 19 and came to visit DC. I remember driving down Colesville and being completely freaked out. Then trying to figure out the "circle" at Colesville/16th/Eastern was the first time I ever got honked at when driving (did I tell you how rural my town was?). I think the switching lanes clog traffic, are dangerous, and are ugly.

Comment by Woodsider

Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:08:10 EDT

So many astute comments made about the absurd and dangerous reversible lanes. Here's one thing that is missing: As you travel south on Colesville at the intersection of Dale, there are traffic lights over the two left lanes...BOTH have a left turn arrow. As a previous poster mentioned, accidents occur regularly at this intersection because both lanes think they can turn left. You'd think a traffic engineer would have figured this out by now.

Comment by Squalish

Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:37:50 EDT

Entering SS from Colesville southbound in evening rush is a nightmare. 4 lanes of traffic move northbound, 2 move southbound. I would say that's about proportionate to traffic, but in this case the southbound traffic has tons of opportunities to turn left - which is nearly impossible with the 5 second green left-turn lights. So the traffic in the right lane creeps along between bus stops, while the left lane rots. In these conditions, three lanes would probably be gridlock for northbound traffic, and two lanes is gridlock for southbound traffic. Either another lane, some type of bypass, or (preferably) a Metro line up 29 (so the suburbanites can enter the city through civilized park'n'rides) is required. IMO reversible lanes are fine, but the shift from morning rush to evening rush shouldn't equal more than a quarter of the total lanes. Here it's 1/3, and it's complicated by the impossible left turn situation. ---- Lindemann: A SPUI is one of the preferred alternatives to a cloverleaf. Only left turns & straight traffic on the smaller road are signalized. It's what they implemented in two or three places further up 29. In truth, it's not very fun to try and walk... but it's a lot easier than a cloverleaf. ------- I think there's some merit in S's suggestion of making Colesville & Spring one-way. Combined with eliminating on-street parking, it might offer enough throughput to make pedestrian scramble crossings practical - which would alleviate many of the safety concerns expressed here. I'm sure I'm missing a bunch of complications that applied to Bethesda... what are they?

Comment by Lindemann

Thu, 11 Dec 2008 22:17:58 EDT

What is a SPUI? I agree that the reversible lanes should go. But not before Georgia Avenue's illegal billboards get the axe. Make Silver Spring beautiful!

Comment by Dave Murphy

Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:31:43 EDT

I think a SPUI at Georgia and the Beltway would be a good start. That ridiculous boondoggle of a pedestrian walkway they constructed is one of the tackiest and least functional pedestrian facilities ever concocted. A SPUI could replace it with simple crosswalks. I forgot to revisit how disastrous that interchange is for that entire area.

Comment by C O'Reilly

Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:05:40 EDT

Thanks for writing on this subject and for your terrific Web site. I live near the Forest Glen Metro and I think the stretch of Georgia Ave., just south of there is one of the ugliest, most pedestrian unfriendly streetscapes in the entire county. The avenue widens to an incredible 8 lanes, many of them reversible, with no median and few pedestrian crossing. Truly awful. The county has taken some steps to make things better, including the removal of billboards, but so much more needs to be done here.

Comment by L Hall

Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:00:09 EDT

A friend of mine was in a serious accident at Colesville and Dale caused by the crazy lane switches. She was in the far (fourth) left lane heading south on Colesville during the morning rush. Someone in the third lane, which is the leftmost lane after 9:30 a.m., erroneously made a left turn directly into the side of my friend, who was not turning. Crossing Colesville at Dale on foot is also insanely dangerous. Have 4-way walk signals ever been considered? (I.e., all four directions can walk at the same time.)

Comment by S

Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:10:25 EDT

I agree the overhead lines are ugly and the streets are wildly dangerous. I have lived right off of Colesville for most of my life and in the past 10 years or so the amount of thru traffic has become completely unmanageable. I feel like a hostage in my own neighborhood for multi-hour long portions of the day. I think street parking should be removed from Colesville and georgia at all times, it simply causes too many problems and there are plenty of garages downtown now. I also think we should emulate Bethesda's setup of splitting traffic on 410, I believe there was a proposal some time back to use Spring and Colesville in a similar fashion with traffic being one way on each. This would lessen the impact of turning vehicles on the overall traffic flow. I also think we should start charging a congestion toll at the Beltway...:-)

Comment by IMGoph

Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:01:42 EDT

looks like the ability to safely cross streets is something a lot of us are thinking about today.

Comment by Cavan

Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:47:38 EDT

The flyer says to email the state at purpleline@mtamaryland.com in favor of the (High Investment) Light Rail option. Thank you for the support, Jared.

Comment by jared

Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:29:40 EDT

As i got on the metro at the strathmore station, some guy was handing out a flier about the Purple Line proposal with info and good tips on ways to support the line. Good stuff!

Comment by Cavan

Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:23:28 EDT

Well said, Dave. I hadn't even thought about the effects of the reversible lanes. I think you said it right that more lanes for through traffic does not automatically increase mobility. It doesn't even necessarily increase the number of vehicles that get through. It sure does hurt walkability, though.