Comments on Development aside, Columbia Pike needs streetcars - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by Ballston Guy

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 17:22:18 EDT

columbia pike buses already have their own branding. that was part of the 2003 thing. all the buses and stops are painted with a special blue and yellow swoosh, and say "pikeride". here's a picture from flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/beyonddc/3932484214/in/set-72157622281086795

Comment by Brent

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 16:57:53 EDT

@KO There is lots of recent new buildings and development along Columbia Pike right now and more in the works. Relatively cheap land, frequent Metrobus service, and access to highways make the land desirable, along with the County's rezoning for higher density. I agree, though, a branding (like the Circulator) would be helpful to market any increased transit choices there.

Comment by KO

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:42:37 EDT

From a layman's perspective, if Arlington county is looking to redevelop the Pike or bring in new development, a streetcar provides a buzz that a re-branded bus line cannot.

Taking a look at the new streetcars proposed all over DC, this streetcar line would "join the revolution," so to speak--it'd be extremely easy for both realtors and Arlington County to brand the new transit system as "innovative, exciting, etc, etc."

Does this mean that going out of their way to make the articulated buses or BRT wouldn't have the same effect? Not necessarily. But there would most likely have to be a larger marketing effort if that was the case.

Comment by AWalkerIntheCity

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:46:11 EDT

"@ Walker, to give one example, the calls for extending the Green Line to Fort Meade.

On a similar note, I only wish the J4 ran all day service to better develop ridership demand for the Purple Line."

Is the former serious? I dont know maryland that well - I thought the proposed extension was shorter. And hardly immiinent anyway. I dont know much about access to NSA - is there really no bus service there? I would have thought there was.

As for the purple line, my impression is that there is parallel bus service on many parts, if not something that exactly follows the route. When dealing with a route that will not exclusively follow streets, its not surprising there is no bus service going the exact same way.

My focus is more NoVa and DC. here, we have the H street line - where there is extensive bus service - the Columbia pike initiative - where there is frequent bus service - Crystal City/Pot Yard, where a bus lane will come first, before light rail, and proposals from Tysons to Falls Church (the failed George system, and the 28 bus) and from Tysons down Gallows (existing local bus and proposals for BRT)

Comment by JimBo

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:37:52 EDT

This writer has clearly not read the Columbia Pike Transit Initiative's background documents, because they are in direct conflict with his claims about capacity. The capacity of the "configuration" under study show little difference in capacity from streetcars vs articulated buses.

Comment by Barry

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 12:28:37 EDT

"the Pentagon buses are literally back-to-back behind each other. As a Columbia Pike resident, I am fully supportive of the street car line - even without the dedicated lanes"

@BH Too bad the Arlington plan for the streetcar will *not* replace buses to Pentagon, leaving all us Pentagon riders on the same old buses. At least when the trolley breaks down (or is stuck behind a broken car unable to move around it), a Pentagon-bound bus can pass it, I guess!

Comment by Falls Church

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 22:08:37 EDT

While I agree that Columbia Pike eventually needs streetcars the question is whether there should be a preceding stage with articulated buses. That's how it's being done virtually everywhere in DC where a streetcar is planned. What is the reason why articulated buses precede streetcars in DC and would those same reasons apply to Columbia Pike?

Comment by Gray

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:27:25 EDT

@stevek_fairfax: dedicated lane buses > streetcar mixed in traffic

Okay...so how do you propose getting buses in dedicated lanes on Columbia Pike?

Comment by stevek_fairfax

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 21:17:33 EDT

dedicated lane buses > streetcar mixed in traffic

Comment by AJ

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:55:42 EDT

"where do you see that?"

@ Walker, to give one example, the calls for extending the Green Line to Fort Meade.

On a similar note, I only wish the J4 ran all day service to better develop ridership demand for the Purple Line.

Comment by grumpy

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:53:49 EDT

I would be willing to bet that most of the residents surveyed envision the streetcar being faster than the current bus system and that's ~50% of the reason why they would ride a streetcar and not the bus. (Another factor is cost, has it been mentioned how much it will cost to ride? will it be the same as metrobus?) If the streetcar can be given signal priority, have limited stops, and perhaps its own lane on sections of the Pike where the road is wide enough, then it will attract many riders, although the same would be true for buses given the same advantages. I've been going back and forth on this but I've decided that if I still lived on Columbia Pike, I would be pro-streetcar.

Comment by BH

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:48:09 EDT

Certainly in the morning rush buses are not anywhere near 2 - 3 minutes apart - gap is closer to 7 - 8 minutes for the "bunches" of buses that already are clumped together. It also amazes me that especially the Pentagon buses are literally back-to-back behind each other. As a Columbia Pike resident, I am fully supportive of the street car line - even without the dedicated lanes.

Comment by AWalkerInTheCity

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:43:44 EDT

"I cringe when I see people advocating for a costly new rail line to be built where there is not even a bus line, "

where do you see that?

Comment by AJ

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:37:13 EDT

@ Chris, I wouldn't expect to see anything close to those proportional numbers on the pike. The "500% increase" figure sounds impressive, but dividing the daily Tacoma Link ridership of about 3400 by the total number of trips yields a figure of only about 22 riders per trip. I'd hazard to guess that the 16 line is doing appreciably better than those figures now, so the bus the streetcar would replace or supplement is hardly the dismal ridership example of the Tacoma bus line.

That said, I do agree that the most valid TRANSPORTATION uses to bus to rail conversions are bus routes which have heavy ridership such as the 16 line. I cringe when I see people advocating for a costly new rail line to be built where there is not even a bus line, or bus service, for that matter, in place currently, when other places with demonstrated ridership are overlooked.

Comment by Chris Slatt

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:06:57 EDT

A good example of this would appear to be Tacoma Link. Used to be a free bus, converted the route to a free streetcar and despite service levels only improving slightly (12 minute headways to 10 minute headways) ridership increased 500%.

Comment by OctaviusIII

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:38:52 EDT

I'm pretty well-swayed by arguments that buses are technically better than streetcars when mixed with traffic. That said, if the preference for rail is borne out in real ridership trends, I might be swayed the other way.

Comment by Ben Ross

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:44:05 EDT

The public preference for rail over bus, when the frequency and speed are the same, is often characterized even by rail supporters as "irrational" or "psychological." This is not how we treat public and consumer preferences in other arenas. It treats transit as an inherently second-class form of travel, whose riders' preferences are not worthy of consideration when making public policy.

As a point of comparison, the enjoyment of your single-family house is not affected by an apartment building on a nearby property, as long as it is not located so close that it casts a shadow on you. The common desire to live in neighborhoods where there are only single-family houses only is just as "irrational" and "psychological" as the preference for rail over bus. Yet homeowner desire for single-family zoning is always treated as a legitimate point of view to be taken into account by policy-makers. No one advocates overriding local zoning rules without at least trying to state a compelling reason to do so.

Comment by charlie

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:35:29 EDT

"Too narrow" which section? There is half of the pIke that is plenty wide.

"ART cheap" huh? Same price as the bus.

No mention of the nextbus phenemenon.

Looking at the survey, there is a very very large MOE in the +/- 6% range for Pike residents. I doubt you can draw that many useful conclusions from that loose data.

If you believe the data, you'd think from this post that a streetcar will result in higher transit use than both R-B and Crystal City. Highly unlikely. The FTA 5% bump is more accurate.

78% of Pike residents are nonwhite and are generally poor. The streetcar has one real function - to let white yuppies move in the Pike en masse.

73% (according to the report) are non