Comments on Barry holding up streetcar that was his idea 15 years ago - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by John Vreeland

Sun, 01 Jul 2012 14:09:59 EDT

I don't know about H Street, but Georgia Ave/Brighwood needs to have its streetcar plan restored. The express bus from Silver Spring is nice when you get lucky, but generally that Northwest corridor has awful bus service, and it has been getting worse.

As for Barry, Sometimes I agree with him and sometimes no, but I rarely understand why he votes the way he does.

Comment by native_resident

Sun, 24 Jun 2012 07:23:42 EDT

Stop tripping folks. This is a grand waste of DC Funds.

Comment by kk

Fri, 22 Jun 2012 11:32:18 EDT

@ Matthias

"Anyone can see that transit-rich areas are more desirable than highways. Relocation patterns and property values have been demonstrating this for many years."

Thats not always true I can name some places in the DC area in addition to New York, California and Massachusetts that counter that claim

Comment by oboe

Thu, 21 Jun 2012 10:46:16 EDT

First, there's the David Catania conflict of interest. It frankly smells. Why is that not an issue?

Could you explain the conflict of interest for us please?

They might be upset about the potential delay, but there would be no name-calling or shouts for that Councilmember's head or suggestions that he/she "belongs in Loudon County".

If you're a DC politician and spend your time advancing policies that are extremely popular in Loudon County, versus those that are popular among DC residents, perhaps you belong in Loudon County. Not sure how that ought to be grouped in with "name-calling" and "shouts for his head".

Comment by ceefer66

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 18:52:52 EDT

I'm no fan of or apologist for Marion Barry. I've honestly never quite understood the allure he's had on voters all this time, especially considering his character and brushes with the law.

I'm not against the streetcars but I think the way the the project has been managed is amateurish to say the least. And as a taxpayer who owns property nearby, I'm affected.

That said, Councilmember Barry is right to want to take a closer look at the streetcars project as it currently is.

First, there's the David Catania conflict of interest. It frankly smells. Why is that not an issue?

We all know that if it were Marion Barry or one of the other Councilmembers from East of Rock Creek Park in Catania's position, no one would be complaining if a Councilmember from NW wanted to examine the project contracts more closely. They might be upset about the potential delay, but there would be no name-calling or shouts for that Councilmember's head or suggestions that he/she "belongs in Loudon County".

But more important is the inconvenient fact that the DC streetcar project has never had even the slightest apppearance of being professionally planned or thought out.

Who ever heard of buying rolling stock and laying track without first figuring out where the power source (overheard wires) would go, figuring out where to put the maintenance facilities, and determining where to put the turnarounds - for starters? And whose bright idea was it to decide to end the K Street line at Union Station without first asking the owners (Amtrak)?

The whole thing smacks of a project that was rushed into willy-nilly by amatuers. DC has spent millions on this project and what does it have to show for it besides 3 streetcars on mothballs for the last 4 years and some tracks to nowhere?

As it is, the only reason to finish this project is that DC will look even more ridiculous for not finishing it than it does now.

And taking snipes at a has-been politican on his last hurrah and dismissing those who agree that taking a closer look at the streetcar project might be a good idea as "trolls" isn't going to change that.

Comment by Matthias

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:50:42 EDT

I don't understand why the greater DC area's highway-induced sprawl and relative lack of transit are being used to argue in favor of more cars and less transit. That would be a self-perpetuating downward spiral.

Anyone can see that transit-rich areas are more desirable than highways. Relocation patterns and property values have been demonstrating this for many years.

Comment by AJ

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 13:38:32 EDT

Isn't Barry's secondary income from starring in Eastern Motors commercials enough to keep him happy?

Seriously, the design and implementation of this line has major flaws that will impede its usefulness. Is there a single switchback along H Street that would allow cars to turn back short in the event of a blockage or disruption? And 5 cars to stock the line? What happens when one car is already out of service for moderate work and another has an accident that pulls it from service?

It would be nice to see this work well, but I'm afraid it is already poorly designed and will be poorly executed. And I agree that 2K riders a day is pretty sad. I'd guess the X2/9 combo are carrying in the range of 12-15K on a weekday.

Comment by Cassidy

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:29:53 EDT

Wait. A member of the DC Council is also a VP at one of the firms doing a major infrastructure project for the city? This may have been looked at already, but this seems like a HUGE issue. Barry is worthless, but that doesn't excuse the major (potential, to be fair) conflict of interest.

Comment by worthing

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 12:00:06 EDT

@oboe - I would also accept Lithuania, Luxembourg, Liverpool, and Lantana, Florida.

Comment by oboe

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:58:43 EDT

Barry is so good at extorting his peers and DC that at this point we should just give him his tithe and wait for him to retire to PG or Loudoun.

I initially read this as "wait for him to retire to PG or Lorton". Which seems more likely.

Comment by oboe

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:56:06 EDT

The majority of jobs in the DC area are located outside of the city, more so if you consider that the DC area now essentially extends west almost to the WV line, and south past Fredricksburg.

The majority of jobs in the US are located outside of the DC metropolitan area. Therefore, it makes no sense for people to be moving here from other areas of the country.

This thread keeps getting more entertaining by the minute.

Comment by Arnold

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:52:41 EDT

I'd be interested to hear more about how Catania's company came to win this contract. Seems pretty fishy.

Comment by MLD

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:52:02 EDT

@Melanie
Does the current street car plan still go over the river like Barry's 1997 plan? I hope so. Just sayin.

The current plan is for the streetcar to continue to the Benning Rd Metro station. http://www.dcstreetcar.com/system-concept-phase-1.html

The tracks currently go to just before the Benning Rd Bridge.

Comment by Jasper

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:42:37 EDT

@ Brian White:Let's file a disapproval resolution on disapproval resolutions.

No, let's get rid of them.

@ dcdriver:cars for the poorest residents of DC are a necessity.

You're making a nice argument, however it does not match the facts. The poor in DC do not own cars.

http://www.tbd.com/blogs/tbd-on-foot/2012/06/where-d-c-s-car-free-households-are-concentrated-15821.html
http://www.smartergrowth.net/anx/ass/library/11/transdatalayout.pdf

Comment by worthing

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:41:32 EDT

@selxic: the cost-benefit analysis of streetcars and financial priorities of DC have been discussed on various posts here every few weeks for the past two years. We all know the arguments on either side. Also, the tracks are largely built and the cars are purchased. Significant capital investment has been made; discussing of cost-benefit for this segment is at this point largely irrelevant.

The discussion here is really about what Barry actually would want in its place, if anything, and to me seems more like a "questionable governance affecting development" post than a "let's debate streetcars for the 35th time" post.

My thought: find out what he wants, tell him to go away or give it to him, and proceed. This project has been delayed enough. Barry is so good at extorting his peers and DC that at this point we should just give him his tithe and wait for him to retire to PG or Loudoun.

Comment by drumz

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:07:30 EDT

I fail to see how it would make any financial sense if you found a job out in Fredericksburg but lived in DC whether you had a car or not. I don't see how it makes sense for people who come from Fredericksburg to DC either for that matter. There is a thing called opportunity costs and they affect everybody, rich or poor.

and I still don't see how any of that hand-wringing about helping the poor actually addresses the transportation probelms on H street and Benning road.

Comment by Melanie Stegman

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 09:01:41 EDT

Does the current street car plan still go over the river like Barry's 1997 plan? I hope so. Just sayin.

Comment by selxic

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:25:54 EDT

This has been a very informative and intelligent discussion of the needs and desire for streetcars, cost-benefit analysis and financial priorities of DC.

Comment by Thayer-D

Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:21:36 EDT

The reason Barry constantly gets re-elected? I'm not sure you want to go there. As a local, I can say unequivocably that there is no nuance to Barry, just plain old ethnic politics of the most base kind. Not being able to speak honestly is one of the reasons he's survived for so long. Just ask him who set him up when he got busted smoking crack with a prostitute.

Comment by Buzznuts

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:54:43 EDT

Ho....hum....

Comment by NikolasM

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:47:47 EDT

DCDriver has to be a troll. Don't feed him.

Comment by Richard Layman

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:56:28 EDT

FWIW, Bossi is right that the design, engineering, and project management (for execution) side of the streetcar project has been weak. (IN a piece, Lydia DePillis called this a problem of planning, but planning is the first phase, execution is part of design, engineering, and project management--it's not planning, not the way that agencies are set up to realize projects.)

I not infrequently make the point that DC and Seattle started streetcar planning in 2003, and in late 2007, Seattle's streetcar entered revenue service...

As far as transit connections go, every resident of the city doesn't have to have access to every job in the DC region (e.g., Fredericksburg.). You can move. Or you can buy a car. Yes, I limit the work i have access to by choosing to not have a car. Depending on the work, that could change. (If I had been offered a permanent position at Baltimore County Planning, I probably would have taken it, and I would have bought a car.)

Virtually everyone else, even "poor" people, can make the same decision. It depends on the job and the opportunity costs.

But adding streetcars to DC will improve transit service (especially wrt reliability, noise, and comfort), and increase choice, connection, and attract more people out of cars, who won't ride buses now.

FWIW, these arguments were made by H St. merchants in 1947, when they were fighting the abandonment of the streetcar line back then.

The transit service improvements will benefit the people who use bus transit the most now, which tend to be poorer people. So I think streetcar service is a win on equity grounds, definitely.

The arguments against streetcar service I just don't really get. It's as if the area has no experience with transit generally and no awareness of streetcar service elsewhere, not just Portland, Toronto and other places too.

I have been meaning to write about this, and I will yet. Basically, my point to every upper income person who derides streetcars is that they need to go to the Nob Hill neighborhood in Portland.

It has historic building stock. It has a "neighborhood" commercial district that far exceeds in quality and variety _every_ "neighborhood" commercial district in DC. It has active neighborhood theaters, a Trader Joe's etc.

I can't imagine anyone in that neighborhood is against having streetcar service. The streetcars are integrated fine into the neighborhood from an urban design standpoint. And probably the property values, generally, are higher than in comparable DC neighborhoods. (Not Georgetown or Dupont Circle, maybe more than a lot of Capitol Hill, more than Takoma, Brightwood, etc.)

Well I guess they aren't higher, but they are comparable, which says a lot, considering that DC properly is one of the strongest real estate markets in the US, and Portland isn't.

www.redfin.com/neighborhood/32432/OR/Portland/Nob-Hill

Other people in the thread make a very good point about Barry using this to strike back at Catania. Commenters are right that the ability to have these kinds of outside jobs sets up conflicts of interest and opportunities for manipulation (something that MB is very good at figuring out; plus it helps deflect attention on his own acts). Actually, you have to hand it to MB, it's a deft move, very impressive.

Comment by Jasper

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:51:35 EDT

@ Gavin:So what exactly is the point of having the Council vote on every contract?

It's great! For CMs who can now use every project they don't like to extort the rest for something they like.

That's exactly why silly procedures like 'disapproval resolutions', filibusters and holds will never disappear. While bad for everyone, they're wayyyy too good for individual lawmakers.

In other news: Two parties in Dutch parliament tried to "filibuster" a debate about the increase of the deductible of the minimum (mandatory) health insurance plan from €220 to €350 per year by request 8 hours of speaking time each. They got it, and ran out of text way before their time was full. Moeahahahaaa. Losers.

Comment by Gavin

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:26:34 EDT

So what exactly is the point of having the Council vote on every contract?

Comment by SE Jerome

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:16:56 EDT

My main set himself up!

Comment by N.E. John

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:01:16 EDT

I like the gateways. Can we set up RFID toll systems at each of these and close off all remaining entrances?

Comment by Amber

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 18:40:56 EDT

Translation: MB did not get enough kickbacks. Any discussion of transportation priorities, planning, perceived vs actual benefits of a streetcar is smokescreen.

Comment by dcdriver

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:57:20 EDT

Excellent example! After all, the vast majority of jobs in the DC metro area are located in freeway medians.

The majority of jobs in the DC area are located outside of the city, more so if you consider that the DC area now essentially extends west almost to the WV line, and south past Fredricksburg. Not having a car puts these jobs out of reach and always will. It also limits your flexibility as to working hours and changing locations.

It all depends on what you bring to the table. If you have the skills, education, and experience that are in demand, you can dictate where you work. If you don't you can't. You go where the jobs are. That means up at 4:30am to drive to that construction job in Loudon or Spotsylvania County if need be. Guess what, Metro won't take you there and if you don't take that job, someone else will and that person, thanks to the mobility offered by their car, will get further than you in this economy.

But hey, at least all the cool kids that work at the non-profits can take a cool streetcar to play mini-golf at a bar on H St.

Comment by Kyle W

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:29:10 EDT

@DCdriver

Not really sure where to even start.

First, streetcars are most certainly not more expensive than subways.

Second, H St developer from an urban hell hole it once was to what it is now in large part because of the promised street car.

[Deleted for violating the comment policy.]

Comment by Scoot

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:27:33 EDT

@DCDriver, Can you please explain how transit projects actually limit people's access to jobs? The reason that the construction site is only accessible by car is that there is no transit access there to begin with. That's why the Silver Line is being built -- to expand, rather than limit, access to areas formerly only accessible by car. The number of people who work to construct the Silver Line is a small fraction of its projected daily ridership.

Unfortunately, giving people cars does not expand their education, experience and skills. It just makes them uneducated, inexperienced, unskilled people who happen to own cars (which already describes reality). What's more, funding for the streetcar project isn't competing with funding for services to expand people's access to education, experience and skills. The latter funding is usually considered to be "untouchable" by the Council, even though it is regularly wasted.

Comment by Gray

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:13:28 EDT

As an example, the Silver Line is one of the largest public works projects in the country. Yet if you don't own a car, you can't work on that job.

Excellent example! After all, the vast majority of jobs in the DC metro area are located in freeway medians.

Comment by dcdriver

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 17:04:47 EDT

@Scoot

Low-income people have very limited job prospects because of limited education, experience, and skills. This essentially will only get worse as our economy becomes more and more reliant on highly skilled labor. So these people need to have access to as many jobs as possible, that only comes through car ownership.

Transit will always be limiting. Limiting the potential jobs of people with already limited prospects is not a recipe for success. It is a recipe for a continued permanent underclass and welfare state.

As an example, the Silver Line is one of the largest public works projects in the country. Yet if you don't own a car, you can't work on that job. That means that a job like a basic laborer, which will pay pretty well on that project (with or without a PLA) is off-limits unless you have a car. This is the reality of the economy in this country. No amount of transit will ever change this. Only car ownership will.

Do cars cost money. Yes. But programs have been set up, albeit on a limited scale, to address these costs. Requiring participants to get basic car maintenance skills before getting a grant to purchase a car, pooled basic liability and collision insurance, and some ongoing supports for gas are all options.

A streetcar for H St bar patrons is nice, cars for the poorest residents of DC are a necessity.

Comment by Michael D.

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:49:13 EDT

Once again Barry is shameless.

This is also an example of why Council Members should not be allowed to have outside jobs. I'm not blaming this on Catania at all, but he is being pressured by Barry through his outside job. That's kind of a problem.

Comment by Scoot

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:44:39 EDT

@DC Driver... Most low income residents in this region already own cars. Since cars cost several thousand dollars a year (on the low end) to own, operate and insure, maybe it would make more sense to offer them more transportation choices to free up their income for other stuff like food and housing.

But it should be noted that the streetcar was not originally planned to shuttle low-income residents around the city; therefore, it doesn't make sense to propose buying cars for low-income residents as the replacement for the streetcar.

Comment by andrew

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:43:47 EDT

@DCDriver: Union Station are actually planning to build a new entrance onto H St to accommodate projected growth at some point during the next decade. This would create good connections between Amtrak, Metro, intercity buses, and the Streetcar.

The railroad alongside the Hopscotch bridge will also eventually be decked over, connecting H St to the North Capitol business developments.

A streetcar to K St would actually be a pretty smart thing to put here, no matter how slow it goes. You'd pick up a lot of business travelers coming off of the Acela.

You're right that the H St line doesn't make much sense on its own, although it was never built with the assumption that it would remain the only part of the system for very long. If Union Station actually does build a northern concourse, the bridge will be the *best* place for the streetcar to go.

Comment by Jack Love

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:37:41 EDT

He wants something. No other reason why he'd wait until now, when the has the power to hold up this project and cause some serious a55pain. Excellent timing on his part.

Reminds me of an old quote by a long-forgotten CO: "There's always one more sonofabitch you didn't count on."

Comment by dcdriver

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:29:44 EDT

Barry is nuts, should be in jail, and should have brought up these concerns earlier in the process. But, his concerns are actually quite valid.

The streetcar is a urban-planning toy, a dream for those that live in fantasyland. Streetcars are a terrible transit idea. They lack the speed of a true subway but cost more and have less flexibility than a bus.

The H St line is even worse. It doesn't even connect to Union Station! So you have a line that comes close to, but doesn't actually connect with the existing transit hub. The city owns 3 cars, which may or may not be usable, and is planning on buying 2 more. So you will have limited headways and capacity, less than you would have with a bus. The only argument for the streetcars is that they are "cool" and people will be enticed to ride them. In this case, a whopping 2,000 people a day. Guess what, H St developed from an urban hell hole to what it is today without the streetcar, it wasn't needed then and it isn't needed now.

Here's an idea, take the streetcar money and buy low-income residents cars so that hey have the economic mobility to actually get ahead in this society.

Comment by Brian White

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 16:08:28 EDT

" why not criticize the existence of 'disapproval resolutions'."

Hear, hear. Let's file a disapproval resolution on disapproval resolutions.

Comment by Jasper

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:54:58 EDT

This is not necessary failure of Barry. This is a failure of process. How is it possible that a single CM can stop a process for 45 days?

This sounds like the same bullcrap that senators can put a 'hold' on stuff. It's not democratic, and only leads to frustration of perfectly legitimate courses of action.

Instead of piling on Barry (always fun off course, but generally too easy), why not criticize the existence of 'disapproval resolutions'. Or at least this kind of use?

Comment by oboe

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:45:35 EDT

Hey Marion, if you wanted this stopped the time was YEARS ago, not at the 11th hour.

Sure, but if on the other hand, if I were a raffish old huckster with exactly zero public sentiment, I would imagine the time to extract maximum concessions is at the 11th hour.

Comment by Alan Page

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:32:23 EDT

While there is some argument that the addition of the X9 makes rush hour bus transportation on H marginally better than 15 years ago, the state of bus transit on H hasn't improved enough to decry the inclusion of an additional transportation option. I guarantee that, at a minimum, the streetcar line will relieve some of the crowding on the X buses, not to mention providing an additional transit option for the hours it runs (any word on the streetcar running times?). Also, Barry doesn't address the argument that fixed line transit options like streetcars encourage development in ways that bus lines do not (sure, everyone who lives near H Street know that bus service will be on H for years to come, but a lender or investor based somewhere far away from the corridor may not be as easily convinced when significant dollars are being sought for development).

Comment by ceefer66

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:30:41 EDT

He who thinks like I do and wants what I want is a visionary. He who doesn't think like I do and want what I want is (pick one):

An idiot
A dinosaur
Stuck in an old way of thinking
An anti
Should be put out to pasture or ignored.

Comment by MLD

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:27:35 EDT

We definitely shouldn't spend any more money on this streetcar! I mean we already built the tracks and have the vehicles sitting mothballed in Greenbelt and are 9/10 of the way to actually having it run down streets, but we can't let it happen!

Hey Marion, if you wanted this stopped the time was YEARS ago, not at the 11th hour. But I guess that's how we do things in DC! We should probably hold some more community meetings just to be sure!

Comment by Scoot

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:22:14 EDT

The Washington Post reported that the original 1997 plan was met with mixed reviews by transit planners who considered it to be "sloppy". Maybe Barry forgot that he proposed streetcars 15 years ago, or maybe he realized how poorly they were perceived to be planned at the time and is merely being consistent. I'm guessing the former, but the latter is possible.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/library/growth/solutions/dctranst.htm

It's also possible that he has a different vision about transit in DC now than he did 15 years ago when there was lower Metro ridership, fewer Metro stations, fewer bus lines, and few other transit options like Circulator or Bikeshare. Still, the X buses along H St are anything but reliable. If he is going to oppose a streetcar plan then he needs to at least throw out an alternative. Streetcars may not be the silver bullet, but the status quo is unsustainable.

Comment by oboe

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 15:17:17 EDT

Any chance we can send Barry out to Loudon for retirement? He'd be right at home out there.

Comment by Gray

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:59:35 EDT

Apparently holding up transit projects is a popular activity today. Three Loudoun county supervisors are whining that WMAA and WMATA need to meet a list of 21 demands, including the demand that the deadline for them to make any decision be pushed another four months.

Comment by Bossi

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:54:52 EDT

I'd be interested to hear if Barry intends to halt the project entirely or if he feels that in this economy: resources might be better spent elsewhere at this time. I won't personally harangue him before hearing his full story, though perhaps my open mind is biased in that I'm admittedly not the biggest supporter of these streetcars*.

* I'm on-board with the concept but critical of their design & implementation... I have far too many operational & maintenance concerns.

Comment by William

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:53:27 EDT

I was for it, before I was against it.

Comment by drumz

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:51:18 EDT

Regardless of the conflict of interest issue of Catania's involvement with MC Dean (which I know nothing about and can't say if its actually a conflict or not) it still seems that CM Barry should actually ride the X2 and see if its reliable including the fact that it's super crowded and not even during the rush hours.

Besides, we are subsidizing the metro and the circulator (duh) and they massively improve mobility. But unless he's proposing either a metro line or a new circulator down H st. (both of which serve wildly different roles) then I fail to see how it actually matters to the areas that the streetcar goes/is going through.

Comment by Thayer-D

Tue, 19 Jun 2012 14:45:15 EDT

When will this man retire??? I'm so tired of him holding back the city in more ways than I thought possible.