Comments on Turn Richmond Highway back into a string of distinct places - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by Froggie

Sat, 30 Jun 2012 10:13:38 EDT

Jasper/Ser AdN/AWalker,et al:

Jumping in way late here...what I get for being out to sea...but I'd like to point out that the Mt Vernon Transportation Committee's long-standing preference for transit along Route 1 is elevated monorail. Now to be fair, it isn't much of a stretch (or cost/ROW reqiurement either for that matter) to convert that preference to elevated Metrorail. The question (besides how to fund it, of course) is where to bring it back to grade. The existing Metrorail tunnel goes 3/4mi south of Huntington, almost to Penn Daw, so a Penn Daw underground station could fairly easily be done. But how much farther south to go before you bring it out of tunnel? From a topography perspective, on the downhill towards Hybla Valley makes sense, but then you'd have to tunnel through Beacon Hill.

As for how to tie it into VRE on the other hand, my thought has long been to bring it thru aft Belvoir, then follow the old rail spur up to Newington. There's adequate open space for a new station at Newington off Loisdale Rd, which you can make out on my map.

Comment by OctaviusIII

Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:39:40 EDT

@David Versel

You can promote nodal development by zoning for it and encouraging it by making each crossroads a hub for the bus system, not to mention spider maps for each of the nodes or areas. The columns don't designate the place; the fact that its a crossroads designates the place. That's why Penn Daw got its name originally, and the corridor could do it again with transit improvements of even a small scale.

Comment by David Versel

Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:05:45 EDT

Thanks to everyone for the lively discussion and thoughtful comments on this issue. We at SFDC struggle every day with the identity/branding of the corridor and have become increasingly convinced that the best way forward is to focus on making unique places along the way and discouraging people from thinking about Richmond Highway as a corridor.

As I mentioned in the article (and many of you reinforced) there has been no better placemaking tool in this region than the names of Metro stations. Something about seeing the iconic vertical white letters on the square bronze column lends permanence to the place name. I suppose that's why the effort to name the Silver Line stations drew so much attention on GGW and why I, for one, am pleased to see the final list of names be less corporate/political and more focused on creating places than the preliminary list.

The more I write about Richmond Highway issues (and the more people respond to my thoughts) the more I realize that the transit network has to improve in order for the corridor to experience more than incremental change. As a point of information, Fairfax County and VDOT have long been working off of the planning assumption that Richmond Highway will eventually have a 146-foot wide right-of-way along its entire length, allowing for three travel lanes and a transit lane in each direction, plus bike/ped facilities and landscaping. The idea is to assume that transit will be at grade for now (either BRT or LRT) so it will need a dedicated lane in each direction. I am not convinced of the wisdom of having such an enormous ROW. In fact, the ongoing battle over widening the segment of Route 1 through Fort Belvoir has pretty much come about due to the extra-wide ROW being acquired.

If the powers that be decide to extend the current heavy rail system down Richmond Highway, an underground tunnel is obviously the best way to promote high-density, nodal development. While the construction would certainly be far more expensive than at-grade tracks, there would be no need for the potentially even more expensive (and politically messy) acquisition of miles of right-of-way along an increasingly valuable corridor.

Regardless of what happens transit-wise, SFDC is encouraged by the vocal commitment from Del. Surovell, Sen. Puller and county Supervisors Hyland and McKay to expanding transit service. SFDC fully supports their efforts, and we look forward to the day when Penn Daw, Hybla Valley, Woodlawn, and Accotink can take their places on the Metro map.

Comment by Ser Amantio di Nicolao

Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:54:53 EDT

@AWalkerInTheCity: Personally, I don't think there's enough room in the median for a proper transit system. Which means widening the road. Which will be a nightmare.

It's possible, I suppose - and actually a transfer at Huntington might not be the worst idea. But whatever it is needs to be independent of the traffic. As I say, I don't think there's currently enough room.

Comment by msandydogg

Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:28:38 EDT

Interesting articles and comments. I'm taking it all in, but I wanted to thank SFDC for posting such a thoughtful piece. There has definitely been a noticeable improvement in that group's advocacy efforts in recent months.

Comment by Another Josh

Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:59:07 EDT

AWalkerInTheCity,
It's entirely possible that I have the details wrong, and he (Scott Surovell) just wants the median reserved for elevated tracks, or something different entirely. I really shouldn't speak for him, especially when he has his own blog. His Metro related posts are here: http://scottsurovell.blogspot.com/search/label/Metro

Bill Cook,
Thanks! I was thinking that Daw might be a local name for small stream or other land formation, but I couldn't find any evidence for that. I'll keep this new info in mind as I go by the Penn Daw fire station (which is more up the hill in Beacon Hill these days).

Comment by AWalkerInTheCity

Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:36:06 EDT

why not LRT in the median? that would be similar to the green line in Boston, not to the proposed street cars on H street and columbia pike. It would achieve much better speeds than buses, though not quite as high was fully grade seperated transit. But it would mean a transfer at Huntington. Or maybe you could run it all the way to King Street, and give a choice of transfer points?

Comment by Ser Amantio di Nicolao

Wed, 27 Jun 2012 10:30:44 EDT

@AWalkerInTheCity: I think it may be the latter. Or perhaps a case of two and two making five? Almost all the discussion I've heard has been about taking the Yellow Line at-grade down the median of Route 1, an idea which in my opinion can only lead to disaster. It needs to be underground. Will that be more expensive? Yes. But it will be far less disastrous in the long run for all involved.

Comment by Bill Cook

Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:53:28 EDT

Another Josh,
Penn Daw got its name from a motel that used to be there, which itself was named after the proprietors, who I think were named Penn and Dawson.

Comment by AWalkerInTheCity

Wed, 27 Jun 2012 09:53:27 EDT

"He favors Metro rails in the median of Rt 1, once it comes up from the tunnels at Huntington. "

surely not. Metro rail uses 3rd rail power and is long trains at high speeds - not designed for at grade crossings with intersecting streets. Either he is really thinking light rail, not metro rail, or hes thinking elevated, or he simply hasn't though it through.

Comment by Another Josh

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:24:56 EDT

As a resident of the Beacon Hill neighborhood, I tend to hear a lot about the redevelopment in this area. Right now the biggest thing going is the options for widening Rt 1 right around Ft Belvoir, which is running into several issues with historical zones and a cemetery. Some options are open for comment now.

As for Metro extension, our current local State Representative is very keen on trying to get a Yellow line extension to Ft Belvoir, which he is often reminding us is larger than the Pentagon in terms of staff. He favors Metro rails in the median of Rt 1, once it comes up from the tunnels at Huntington. It would also improve access to the Fairfax South County Center. Getting a Metro line with named stations would do a lot for the neighborhood identities. Sure, you've got Beacon Mall and whatever they're calling the Penn Daw shops, but mostly people call those the center with the Walmart or the Lowes.

I've also heard some thoughts on a Blue line extension to the West side of Ft Belvoir, which I understood had the advantage of some existing right-of-way that could be used.

Several years back I lived just North of Ft Belvoir and commuted via the REX bus and Metro into DC. About the only thing the REX bus has going for it is that it's limited stop, otherwise it's subject to schedule slippage and bunching that is often the problem with buses. And I never quite figured out why it goes to the North side of Huntington instead of the South, even though it's last stop before the station is Penn Daw.

I'd just like to see some updating to the area. At the moment it is very car-centric (I sometimes bike to Huntington, and it can be nerve-wracking). The Penn Daw area could use a clever solution to the traffic where Kings Hwy and Rt 1 meet, which I have seen some discussion of. Right now it's a jumble, and you can almost see the confusion when a car is not familiar with the intersection and trying to figure out which way to go.

I've done just a bit of looking for some of the history of these neighborhoods, but haven't gotten too far into it. I've been trying to find out how Penn Daw got it's name with no luck thus far. I did meet someone who knew the Quander family, who have a road named after them now. And searching for the street name where I live now seems to turn up the boring story that it was named after the developer that built it.

Comment by OctaviusIII

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 20:40:48 EDT

If VRE can get a metro-like upgrade, that would be a far superior option than a Metro extension. It would make the line an express to Union Station and likely soak up some blue/yellow ridership, taking pressure off Metro Center.

Take inspiration from Caltrain, a commuter rail system south of SF. They do at-grade tracks and take crossings as they come. It doesn't run often, but the tracks will be shared with California High Speed Rail and already accommodate two levels of service.

As for fantasy maps: y'all do it up. Trust me, it's not that hard - Google's custom mapping tools are really easy.

Comment by Jasper

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 20:32:33 EDT

@ jim:I'm not sure what people mean when they talk of extending the Yellow Line along Route 1. What do people envisage?

A metro line like so many around the world?

Normal metro style: Underground. If the whole corridor gets TOD rebuilding, a but more digging is barely gonna be noticed.

El-cheapo option: Elevated. You could sell that as "Chicago-style". We could call it the Obama-line.

Comment by Neil Flanagan

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 19:53:33 EDT

To build on Dan Reed's points, I think this a great effort, but I tend to find places have a stronger sense of identity when the nodes have a strong public space. This might be a big, pedestrian-centric intersection like Columbia Heights, a park, like Dupont, or a square, like in them European cities. Not every location has such a thing, but I think the model works better when you can zoom in and find a node in each node, down to the furniture scale, like that ugly fountain in Bethesda Row.

Nonetheless, this is exciting. Metro will hopefully be the next step.

Comment by AlanF

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 18:25:16 EDT

@jim, if the Yellow Line were to be extended down Rt. 1, I imagine it would start out in a tunnel. Use cut and cover construction to run it down the middle of Rt. 241 and then Rt. 1 to at least through a Groveton station. After that, a lot of engineering studies to be done. Hopefully, they wouldn't use the same design team as the one who did the Silver Line through Tysons or it would be a lot of obtrusive concrete elevated tracks much of the rest of the way. (The Silver Line should have been underground the entire segment on Rt. 7 in Tysons, if not also gone under the Beltway).

Probably best to put much of the route underground from Huntington to Ft. Belvoir. More expensive? Yes. But around 50 miles of the current system is underground if I remember my stats correctly. So it could be done.

Comment by jim

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 17:27:03 EDT

I'm not sure what people mean when they talk of extending the Yellow Line along Route 1. Elevated for eight miles? Tunneled? Both options are extremely expensive. But how does one run at-grade along Route 1? Lots of roads cross it at grade. What do people envisage?

Comment by Ser Amantio di Nicolao

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:54:26 EDT

@AlanF: Any Metro extention MUST cover Fort Belvoir in some way. Preferably with multiple stations. Other destinations mentioned have the advantage of being accessible by VRE to some extent; Fort Belvoir does not. Personally, I'm in favor of extending the Metro into Prince William County; should that turn out not to be feasible, anything covering Belvoir would do. But it MUST cover the fort.

@Jasper: David, can we do some Google Maps fantasy map thing?

Ooh, yes please.

Comment by Jasper

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:54:03 EDT

@ AlanF:What would be an acceptable new terminal station that would be a target (see Dulles) that would garner enough public support

The goal for the extended Yellow Line would be to move people to and from Ft Belvoir as well as to redevelop US-1 between Alexandria and Woodbridge. If Ft Belvoir is the destination, then Potomac Mills is a useful endpoint.

Extending the Metro all the way to Lorton approx 12 miles from Huntington is problematical because Lorton has the VRE/CSX tracks.

Which is why I'd ignore those. Too much trouble with CSX and future HSR to Richmond and the Tidewater.

Comment by AlanF

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:45:23 EDT

One advantage of strip malls is that they are among the easiest properties to tear down and redevelop. Strip malls don't cost much to build and are owned by commercial real estate holding companies which will be fine with tearing down the mall and selling or redeveloping the property for TOD so long as they can make more money than from the leases. All those strip malls and chain stores makes it easier to redevelop much of the Rt. 1 corridor for TOD than other proposed Metro Line extensions from what I have seen.

Extending the Metro all the way to Lorton approx 12 miles from Huntington is problematical because Lorton has the VRE/CSX tracks. Far cheaper for Lorton, Woodbridge transit service to upgrade the CSX ROW to a 7 day a week regional rail system with service to Alexandria, Crystal City, Union Station. Have to replace/supplement the Long Bridge, add dedicated tracks down to Woodbridge or Fredericksburg, but a billion plus would probably cover it. And be paid for as a critical part of the SouthEast HSR corridor. Regional rail was not a viable option for service to Dulles by any reasonable path, so the Silver Line is going to Dulles.

Extending the Yellow Line partway down Rt. 1 a few miles might be feasible. What would be an acceptable new terminal station that would be a target (see Dulles) that would garner enough public support: Hybla Valley?, Mt Vernon?, Ft. Belvoir/Rt. 286?. My guess would be Ft. Belvoir or Rt. 286 with a big parking garage. A Ft. Belvoir station provides the opportunity to tap into DOD funds and support for a Metro extension. But an ~8 mile extension down Rt. 1 to the Rt. 286 intersection would cost 2?, 3?, 4? billion?

Comment by selxic

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:21:41 EDT

The "places" are still places. There is nothing wrong with being Alexandria, Mount Vernon or Fort Belvoir just as there is nothing wrong with referring to Clarendon simply as Arlington. None of the communities are great regional destinations right now. That may change in the future. (Fortunately all plans don't want the region to become another R-B corridor.) It helps with way-finding if each community pushes their brand a bit more regionally, but as it is, if you ask someone along the Route 1 corridor about the Hybla Valley section of Alexandria they know where it is.

@Jasper: I thought I felt a tear beginning to form in the corner of my eye when I saw there was a post about the Route 1 Corridor. Thank you Davids...

Comment by Falls Church

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:49:35 EDT

Is transit the only way to create a strong "place identity"?...But there are also other local landmarks that can be just as powerful, like Clarendon Circle in Arlington, which predated the Clarendon Metro station.

What was the Clarendon Circle brand? "Home of the most confusing intersection in Greater Washington"? Thank goodness they're improving that junction.

That said, I agree with Dan Reed that local landmarks can be a powerful form of identity. But better examples of that are the Big Chair and the Shrimp Boat EOTR.

Comment by Jasper

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:47:04 EDT

@ Ser AdN:I gotta ask - does your fantasy map cover anything for the Mark Center? Mine does. :-)

Yep. Pink Line: Pentagon, Air Force HQ, Shirlington, VA-7 (crossing the extended Purple Line), Mark Center, Landmark, Edsall, Springfield Mall, Franconia-Springfield, Newington, Lorton, Colchester, Woodbridge, begin of PW Parkway, Caton Hill, Potomac Mills and further along my extended Yellow Line.

David, can we do some Google Maps fantasy map thing?

Comment by Ser Amantio di Nicolao

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:34:09 EDT

@Jasper: I gotta ask - does your fantasy map cover anything for the Mark Center? Mine does. :-)

@thump: I have to agree with Jasper here. At least as it relates to Southeast Fairfax, I've ssen a woeful dearth of coverage of our troubles in anything but the hyperlocal press. (Think neighborhood weeklies, that sort of thing.) It's good to see that changing, because the more people know about what's wrong with the Route 1 corridor, the better they can be about fixing it. And this is a well-trafficked blog, to boot.

Comment by Jasper

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:30:02 EDT

@ Ser AdN: I'd suggest extending the Blue Line as well, through Newington, with a stop at Belvoir North and a link with the Yellow Line further down.

I've not forgotten Newington in my fantasy map. That would be served by the Pink Line from the Pentagon on top of the HOT-lanes down to the Springfield Mall, Newington, Lorton and then merging with my fantasy extended Yellow Line.

Comment by David Alpert

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:29:02 EDT

Thanks, Jasper. We'd definitely like to have more about VA. If there are folks interested in contributing, please email info@ggwash.org.

Comment by Jasper

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:26:32 EDT

@ thump: You're kidding right?

No.

I was going to say exactly the opposite. I think it get's far more attention than say PG.

No. GGW has long been very DC-centric. It still is in a certain way. Thanks to a few contributors, the northern suburbs in Md got more and more attention. There was a hole in VA coverage. In the last few weeks, I see more attention for NoVa. That makes me happy. I guess David found a few writers. Good work. It's not easy setting up a quality volunteer site.

I don't know if PG gets enough attention. I don't know PG country very well, so I pay less attention to what happens there. However, there was an article a few days ago about stormwater stuff in PG. And there have been some about TOD about the southern Green Line stations. And many, many articles about College Park, UMD and the Purple Line. Is that enough? Don't know. I was just expressing happiness over increased VA coverage.

Comment by Ser Amantio di Nicolao

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 15:26:04 EDT

@Jasper - Interesting. I'd suggest extending the Blue Line as well, through Newington, with a stop at Belvoir North and a link with the Yellow Line further down. (Perhaps at the hypothetical Kingman Gate station? That would be at the heart of the Belvoir complex, and would be a good transfer point.) Newington could also stand some revitalization - it's too un-concentrated at the moment, and wants focus.

@dan reed!: Landmarks? What landmarks? (Seriously - there are a couple of old houses, but other than that it's a pretty featureless area if you don't know it.)

Comment by thump

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:59:44 EDT

BTW: Props to GGW for extending their view more into NoVA. It is appreciated.
@Jasper-You're kidding right? I was going to say exactly the opposite. I think it get's far more attention than say PG.

Comment by dan reed!

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:50:05 EDT

I'm not convinced that transit is necessarily the most effective way to create a stronger "place identity" here, though it may help.

Is transit the only way to create a strong "place identity"? Maybe. After all, there are a lot of neighborhoods that were "rebranded" after their Metro stations, like Van Ness or White Flint (which, in turn, was named after the mall). But there are also other local landmarks that can be just as powerful, like Clarendon Circle in Arlington, which predated the Clarendon Metro station.

A better example for the "Alexandria section of Fairfax" might be Silver Spring. It may not have definite municipal boundaries like Alexandria, but Silver Spring has a downtown that everyone recognizes and a whole mess of other areas, some of which are 15 miles away, that all have Silver Spring addresses. I would say that many of these places, like Four Corners or White Oak, have a pretty strong identity. They don't have Metro stations, but they have recognizable landmarks, active community groups, or in the case of Kemp Mill, a a substantial religious affliation.

I don't know this part of Fairfax County very well, but in the near term, perhaps the best ways to improve the "place identity" of neighborhoods along Richmond Highway are a) taking advantage of existing landmarks, like major intersections, schools, or shopping centers and b) having engaged community associations who serve as brand ambassadors for their particular area. Transit can help, but its primary job is to move people around, not placemaking.

Comment by Jasper

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:48:58 EDT

@ Ser AdN:Regarding Lorton proper: I see what you're saying, but I still think Lorton needs the stations more than Gunston

True. But Lorton itself is suburban and done. It will be very hard to increase density there. I say this with regret because I'd love a metro station next door.

However, we're only talking here about an imaginary extension of the Yellow Line. I'd extend the Blue Line not along the railroad tracks, like most, but along the Franconia-Springfield Parkway (VA-7900, almost VA-289), the Fairfax County Parkway (VA-286, old VA-7100) to VA-123, GMU, Fairfax City and the (extended) Orange Line at Oakton.

That way, Lorton would be nicely squeezed between the extended Yellow and Blue Lines, and very accessible through short bus routes (much better than the very circuitous 305 and 371).

Comment by monkeyrotica

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:41:22 EDT

I don't think they'll fall over the cliff until they connect Mount Vernon Highway and Telegraph Road. Once that Wegmans opens up, induced demand will kick in and all hell will break loose. Enjoy your deathtrap, ladies!

Comment by Ser Amantio di Nicolao

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:31:18 EDT

@spookiness: I don't disagree - however, at this point, adding anything to that intersection is only going to make matters worse. Route 1 has reached its tipping point, and it's going to fall over the cliff before too much longer.

Comment by Ser Amantio di Nicolao

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:30:00 EDT

@Jasper:
Kingman Gate, if it's the place I'm thinking of, is right off of the Fairfax County Parkway about midway between Route 1 and the Telegraph Rd. interchange. It's been announced that the museum's going there - it's actually a pretty good location, nearly completely devoid of anything save a few low-rise Army buildings. With the number of projected visitors, a Metro station would be key.

As to the Lorton interchange, I didn't mean there should be a stop at Occoquan, but if the line were to be built as I suggest, that would be the logical way to bring it around south - cross the Occoquan River up there. They COULD have a station on the fringes of town, if they wanted - my suggestion would be to create the option of a commuter-friendly stop away from downtown, with some transit access to the shops if people want it.

Regarding Lorton proper: I see what you're saying, but I still think Lorton needs the stations more than Gunston. The Gunston area (speaking of - "Pohick" is another name I'd like to see come into more use) is one of the few in the Route 1 corridor that actually kind of works, to me. Lorton does not, and a train line would help change that. I'm sure a location for it could be found with enough thought. It's not going to be convenient to built ANY Yellow Line extension, at this point.

I'd still consider something for Ox Road - it looks to me that there's plenty of development potential near the Workhouse, even if not on its grounds.

And I agree - it's nice to see Southeastern Fairfax get some love on GGW. The more input we have on what should happen, the better.

Comment by spookiness

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:29:08 EDT

Monkey,
I applaud Fairfax county for keeping Mount Vernon district Costco shoppers in Fairfax county and not clogging Alexandria and Arlington streets to get to Pentagon City. Traffic in that area isnt' all generated by people outside that area, its generated by residents leaving the area because they either refuse to shop there, or they perceive that the retail doesn't meet their needs.

Comment by monkeyrotica

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:13:58 EDT

And speaking of big box hell, there's about to be a Costco right nextdoor to a Walmart. That Sherwood Hall/Route 1 intersection is a fustercluck as it is. I don't see how adding a couple busses to the equation is going to mitigate the intevitable gridlock, and that's not even considering the BRAC volume coming off Fort Belvoir.

Comment by Bill Cook

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:11:01 EDT

Each of those nodes along Richmond Highway needs a small area plan with an attempt at some sort of distinct design guidelines or form-based code. RH will inevitably revitalize, but my fear is that ugly monotonous strip-highway crud will simply get replaced by the same sort of monotonous "town center" superblocks that are already popping up all over the county.

Comment by monkeyrotica

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:08:56 EDT

I drive that stretch regularly and I don't see how signs are going to make distinctions between those neighborhoods. It's littered with identical or interchangeable chain stores: McDonalds, Five Guys, Wendys, Jerry's, gas stations, Walmart, Shoppers, Safeway, car dealerships. How are you supposed to create unique neighborhood identity when you're just like every other low-density sprawling suburb?

Comment by Jasper

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:06:07 EDT

BTW: Props to GGW for extending their view more into NoVA. It is appreciated.

Comment by Jasper

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 14:04:29 EDT

@ Ser AdN:Why not Lorton?

Because it's actually hard to get a metro line of off US-1. I don't know how you'd get a line from Ft Belvoir/US-1 to the Lorton VRE station. Pohick Rd is too narrow. Also, Lorton Station is itself a terrible location, hidden behind a terrible semi-TOD place.

I'd just stick to US-1 and put the "Gunston" stop at Gunston Plaza, which has plenty of TOD opportunity as well as an untouched patch east of US-1. Most buses that now go to Lorton Station could be easily rerouted to include Gunston Plaza as a stop.

So a stop at the Kingman Gate (where the new Army Museum) will be going;

Where's that?

one at Lorton station; one at Ox Road, by the Workhouse;

Problem is that nobody lives at the Workhouse. Also, none of the old prison ground can be used for residential development. Also not sure that Occoquan would want another attack on its quaintness with a metrostop.

and then bring it around north down to Woodbridge. Maybe a terminus at Potomac Mills? Any farther out would be a bit much.

Not if PW County realizes that all their sprawl is a disaster. They should, looking at their property values. They need to increase their density. Which they can't do without mass transit, because the Potomac Mills area already is a traffic mess.

[I generally refer to the area as Potomac Hell and avoid it as much as I can. I save up shopping trips until I really, really, really needs something from there.]

Comment by OctaviusIII

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:54:51 EDT

Hmmm....

Walkscore's Commute calculator shows that Accotink is very, very transit accessible. Take an hour and you can get anywhere in DC and a whole lot of NoVa. Granted, that might just be commute lines but STILL, color me impressed.

Comment by Ser Amantio di Nicolao

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:45:21 EDT

@Jasper: Why not Lorton? VRE aside, I think they need it far more than Gunston. The Gunston area actually works pretty well, so far as I'm concerned; the Lorton area needs something to unify it. So a stop at the Kingman Gate (where the new Army Museum) will be going; one at Lorton station; one at Ox Road, by the Workhouse; and then bring it around north down to Woodbridge. Maybe a terminus at Potomac Mills? Any farther out would be a bit much.

@movement: Well, Dulles has the international airport, so getting that into the system is important. Otherwise, I agree - it's high time Metro considers doing something significant to the Route 1 corridor. (I know, I know, capacity issues...doesn't change the fact that Route 1 NEEDS work.)

Incidentally, I hope Accotink is one of the places that gets redefined - I've always loved that name. :-)

Comment by movement

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:28:21 EDT

We're spending all this money on the Dulles Corridor, but the Richmond Highway Corridor is better located (much closer to the core) and much more easily developed.

@Steve the REX (Richmond Highway Express) pretty much does that today.

Comment by Jasper

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:24:50 EDT

Can Fairfax achieve this without Metro?

How about extending the Yellow Line along US-1? Make stops at Beacon Hill, Hybla Valley, Mt Vernon, Ft Belvoir North & Main Gates, Gunston (not Lorton), Colchester, Woodbridge, Potomac Mills and further along the PW Parkway.

Comment by Steve

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:12:34 EDT

A great spot would be at North Kings Hwy and Rt 1....but then I havent been back to the area in a couple years so things may have changed. Any multi-family residential building will generate transit traffic...and Rt 1 is full of such buildings. What if there was a Rt 1 Rocket Express that ONLY ran up and down and stopped along Rt 1, say Lorton to Huntington Metro?

Comment by OctaviusIII

Tue, 26 Jun 2012 13:01:06 EDT

I've been thinking exactly the same thing, but for NoVa in general out to Dulles.

Transit is the way to define a place, and in NoVa it's more likely to be a bus line than a rail line that serves a given community. In my mind, that means a network of (relatively) high-frequency bus lines connecting together hubs around the county without the ridiculous loops and curlicues WMATA does now.

In Richmond Highway's case, they have the great branding, and transit, of the REX bus route, but beyond that people just can't get anywhere in under half an hour. If Penn Daw had a bus hub located at the intersection but integrated into the development, it might drive a kind of low-intensity transit-oriented development that would define the place.