Comments on Better signs could speed trains through Fort Totten - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by Jim Call

Mon, 02 Jul 2012 15:25:21 EDT

Metro's policy of stopping at the most forward position in the station is stupid. It often forces people to run to get into the last car and crowds the last car with passengers that would have boarded the train more evenly spread out under other circumstances.

and encourages the operators to taunt paying passengers with inanities like "Customers, Please use all doors."

Comment by Sand Box John

Sun, 01 Jul 2012 09:18:06 EDT

Little factoid Matt:
The field color behind the white text on metrorail signs, "metro brown" , is Pantone No. 448C, Red 84, Green 71, Blue 45, HEX #54472D.

Comment by Capt. Hilts

Fri, 29 Jun 2012 09:42:40 EDT

It's a stupid policy - most seriously in those stations where there are a lot of tourists riding the trains.

Comment by kk

Fri, 29 Jun 2012 01:14:19 EDT

@ andrew

Noma was my home station so i know exactly what the layout of the station is.

The mezzanine is similar to that of Rhode Island Ave but everything is two-three times further apart. Just look at Rhode Island Ave station; you can clearly see how close everything is once you enter the metal frame and compare that to the glass/metal frame at Noma

Noma, Morgan Blvd and Largo Town Center are all the exact same way they all have everything spaced out far.

1 From the steps and doors you have the vending machines which are about 15-20 feet away from the doors give or take.

2 The closest fare machine is about 10 feet from the fare gates, then the closest escalator is about 20 feet but its not even facing you; you have to walk the entire length of it then turn around.

If the first escalator was facing the opposite way everything would be find.

3 The elevator is damn near a block from either entrance; there was plenty of space to but the elevators closer to the faregates on both sides. The only reason I could logically think of having both elevators there is for mechanical reasons beyond that it makes no damn sense to make the disabled or anyone really go a block out of the way its not like this is Gallery Place where they added the elevators at the last minute.

Comment by dand

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 17:59:46 EDT

Subway stations in Tokyo have signs that show which part of the train drops you off closest to stairs/escalators at other stations. Similar idea to showing where you should get on the train, and it's extremely useful:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3602/3409630366_68f8dbdefa_o.jpg

Comment by andrew

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 16:28:49 EDT

@kk & vinnie

NoMa is my home station, and this has literally never been an issue for me. I think there's some other infrastructure (and a building) in the way by the South entrance that prevented them from putting the elevators/platform closer.

Comment by Vinnie

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 16:15:48 EDT

The downtown SF BART stations have a clever way to deal with this -- the far wall of the station (the one that is behind the train when it arrives) has signs that say things like "Board 9 car trains here. Shorter trains" and then an arrow for where you're supposed to go.

It works well, but is more necessary there where trains can vary between 4 and 10 cars. But I think its perfectly suited to this situation.

Also, I totally agree with the comment on the NoMa station -- it sucks hitting the fare gate, seeing a "2" or less for your train, and having to break into a dead sprint to avoid missing it.

Comment by selxic

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:50:03 EDT

@Alger: I'm always worried I'll have to share a seat when they tell people to move to the end of the platform or explain where the train will stop. Thankfully, the messages and warning consistently go ignored.

Comment by Arl Fan

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:27:16 EDT

King Terrapin wrote:

The solution to this problem is not to install signs. It's for Metro to either stop trains at the appropriate positions at the center of the platforms, or resume operating trains in automatic mode.

The current idiotic policy is a big inconvenience to commuters, and even worse, is very inefficient on a system that operates at crush capacity during the peak of the rush and during special events

This.

Comment by Tom Veil

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:10:39 EDT

Or just return to automatic control for station stops, so that the train stops in the middle of the station instead of at the end! It seems like manual braking at the stations is the WMATA equivalent of removing shoes at the airport: it's theater that is vaguely related to a prior incident but that doesn't actually make the train any safer.

Comment by Alger

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:02:46 EDT

@selxic
--OH NOES! You have given away my secret to Ft Totten Speed Commuting!

The crowding thing is only a problem if you want to distribute people evenly throughout the train. The current setup is great for people who know where to go to get in an empty car.

Comment by w4t

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:57:16 EDT

I've been on many rail/metro/subway/street cars, one of the things I have liked the most is in LA metro system. They too have trains of varying length, however they do something different. During rush hour, they have 2 additional cars on the trains. For non rush hour, the train stops one car from the front of the station, and there are yellow markings to show where the front and rear of the train will be during non rush hour, and iirc, signage to describe that this will happen.

So in tl;dr form, the train is always centered, regardless of how many cars are attached.

Comment by King Terrapin

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 13:46:30 EDT

The solution to this problem is not to install signs. It's for Metro to either stop trains at the appropriate positions at the center of the platforms, or resume operating trains in automatic mode.

The current idiotic policy is a big inconvenience to commuters, and even worse, is very inefficient on a system that operates at crush capacity during the peak of the rush and during special events. The reason they started it is because a large number of train operators are either inept and poorly trained so they can't handle the simple task of counting how many cars they have and stopping the train at the appropriate spot (clearly marked at every platform) when operating in manual mode. A number of trains had doors open in the tunnels because operators would stop 8-car trains at spots designated for 6-car trains. So instead of improving operator training or punishing/firing the operators involved, the agency decided to have riders suffer instead.

Metro also claims they can't operate trains in manual mode (which would somewhat negate the need for competent operators) because it wouldn't be safe. Another negative result of this decision means the agency can no longer run trains with 2.5min headways on the Red Line on time.

I'm not usually one to complain (and the number of posts and comments on this site that insist on a perfect utopia alarms me), but the fact that such a large and critically important transit agency has such an asinine policy with such a simple and far more efficient alternative is too large to ignore.

Comment by selxic

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 12:29:05 EDT

Unless the crowding is threatening to offload the entire train, I prefer that people remain oblivious and ignore daily usage patterns so I can get on empty trains and have a seat to myself.

Comment by Transport.

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 12:07:08 EDT

This is a great idea and something I wondered about since I use Gallery Pl-Chinatown Station frequently and have seen the signs at the National Airport station.

Why do common sense ideas like this always need to be suggested on a blog -- what are the WMATA customer service, "researchers," rail operation staffers doing!?!

Comment by MLD

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 12:02:06 EDT

@kk
Did the designers envision the system being served by 8car trains all the time ? If so that would explain the platform designs if not what is the explanation for the designs

They envisioned a system where trains stopped in the middle of the platform - this is how the system is designed. So the old 4-car trains would end where the 6-car trains that are stopped at the front now do. 6-car trains would end where the 7th car space is on the diagram.

But now that we're in manual mode for who knows how long, WMATA insists that all trains pull up.

I agree that signage is a good idea - maybe they can convince at least some people to move down the platform.

Comment by Matt Johnson

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:59:42 EDT

@Another Josh:
We're likely stuck with manual control for a few more years.

In the old days, the sixth car would have been positioned where the seventh car is shown.

Comment by Another Josh

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:57:59 EDT

Just out of curiosity, where did the 6 car Southbound Green (and Yellow) trains stop before the current policy of pulling to the end of the platform at every station went into effect? And is there any word on when that policy would be changed? I can imagine that one reason they would be reluctant to put up signs might be that Metro would like to go back to the automatic track controls that could stop the trains at different locations in each station, which would make the signs obsolete.

Comment by kk

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 11:44:28 EDT

Did the designers envision the system being served by 8car trains all the time ? If so that would explain the platform designs if not what is the explanation for the designs

At Ft Totten specifically I have always thought that there should have been a second entrance at the western most portion of the Green lines platform for those walking down 1st Pl or getting off the bus.

Also the same thing happens at Stadium Armory, Union Station, Anacostia, Van Ness, Cleveland Park and some extent at Noma

The one that amazes me is Noma due to the escalator/elevator design. Everything is in the center of the station but it could have been built on both ends closer to the entrances/exits. At the south entrance/exit you walk a good 40-50 feet before there is an escalator and almost a block before the elevator when there is empty space that could have been used to place them closer

Comment by Cavan

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:51:59 EDT

What a great idea!

Comment by andrew

Thu, 28 Jun 2012 10:37:51 EDT

They could also really use something like this at the Shady Grove platform at Gallery Place.