zOMG Dave, now you're in my neck of the woods. I've been living in Aspen Hill since 1963.

The Montrose Parkway is, of course, a truncated version of the original "Rockville Facility".

As to the dumping of traffic right onto Parkland Drive, Ah, no, go see Nancy Floreen's blog where she and I have a bit of a tissy spat and she assures us that it's been designed so that traffic can't cross over between Parkland Drive and the Parkway, which basically defeats the main selling point for the Parkway as far as Aspen Hill is concerned, and forces people from Aspen Hill to drive miles out of their way to get onto or off of the Parkway.

My advice on this, before you go too much further, is to go to AspenHillNet.Net and read all of the articles you get from searching for "cloverleaf".

Note that there will definitely be a call for an extension at least to the infamous "cloverleaf to nowhere" where Connecticut Avenue crosses Matthew Henson State Park. That park was converted from old State Highway Administration land which was left undeveloped for about 50 years on the assumption that eventually it would have that freeway in it. The cloverleaf to nowhere was definitely built so that a likely termination of the "Rockville Facility" there would dump freeway-like traffic at a point with quick connections in all directions, including into Aspen Hill's single-family detached residential housing via either of two signal-controlled left turns from Connecticut Avenue; or, after a signal-controlled left turn onto Georgia Avenue, either an uncontrolled intersection at Heathfield or at a signal-controlled left at Bel Pre Road.

As it is, all of that freeway-like traffic will have to be dumped onto Veirs Mill Road, where it is only two lanes by two lanes, median-separated, with no easy way to get into Aspen Hill other than by going almost back into Rockville and traveling up Aspen Hill Road, or by taking a left at Randolph Road and another left from there onto Connecticut Avenue northbound. Both of those last two turns are exceptionally overloaded already at rush-hour, and Aspen Hill Road just was treated to "bump-outs" and "pedestrian safety center-islands" for traffic-calming purposes and to dissuade cut-through traffic.

Clearly this is yet-another scam by the planners and the Council to force traffic anguish onto a public who will endlessly thereafter wail for the final extension -- at least to Connecticut Avenue -- of the Montrose Parkway.

I might point out that you should drink less coffee and type a bit less, sir, and drink more coffee and drive more before you type. Parkland Drive isn't by any stretch of the imagination a "quiet residential street", other than perhaps at midnight. How would I know? I live at one of the two busiest intersections on that street.

Now, keep in mind that the Matthew Henson State Park was set aside by an amendment of the Constitution of Maryland, in a practically overnight move to forestall a possible permit to develop granted by a Republican governor to his developer crony friends. That same speed of amendment could be surpassed should it ever be decided that Democrat crony developers should complete the original "Rockville Facility" plan from I-270 to the expected intersection with the ICC very near the present site of the Trolley Park Museum in the Northwest Branch stream valley.

This road, I should mention, got plenty of debate, it's just that this was a "done deal" 50 years ago, it was just a question of "when" and which taxpayers would fund it. As best I can tell, this will not be a State road, and in some ways, it's going to be a welcome improvement over the hills of Randolph Road and Veirs Mill Road, which become pretty impassible in snow and ice.

Now if you want to have a fun little debate, let's discuss the Upper Rock Creek Freeway um I mean Parkway which would more or less parallel the route of Bowie Mill Road from the ICC near Redland Road out to end at MD-108 at approximately the southern terminus of MD-582, "Zion Road".

Nobody's talking about it but it's absolutely certain that it will happen, and within 20 years as long as developers keep running the County Council into promoting limitless Bay-killing population growth.

by Thomas Hardman on Dec 28, 2008 1:33 pm • link • report

Bad news. It's being constructed with a freeway-like traffic patterns. This project is a really bad idea. We (Montgomery County) is biting off more than it can chew on this one, I'm afraid.

It will make traffic worse and make it harder to convert the White Flint and Twinbrook Metros from edge cities to actual places.

When you're in a hole, you need to stop digging. Unfortunately, someone threw us a new shovel on this one.

by Cavan on Dec 28, 2008 2:10 pm • link • report

Oh, it gets even worse. ;)

Clearly it's time to reconstruct much of Veirs Mill Road from Twinbrook Parkway to the Montrose Parkway. They're already diong a bit of that, having completed the major expansion at Veirs Mill Road and Aspen Hill Road, though mostly what that does is give the carrying capacity to the intersection to dump freeway-like traffic into a merge going up a steep hill on Aspen Hill Road and letting it bottleneck up to Arctic Avenue's traffic signal, rather than having it bottleneck along one lane turning left, from Twinbrook Parkway down to Aspen Hill Road, as it did before the "improvements".

Of course, I invite people to stop by the neighborhood website, perhaps a good start page on roads issues would be Aspen Hill Road. But I digress.

To continue, by widening Veirs Mill Road to a potential three lanes by three lanes, median separated with signal-controlled left-turn pullout lanes, that already freeway-like traffic can hopefully handle not just the projected traffic associate with the Montrose Parkway, but also the inevitable concentration of High Density Mixed Use development that "doubtless needs to be done" eventually replacing most of Veirs Mill Village and Stoneybrook Estates both Parts One and Two, which is to say, north of Veirs Mill Road on both banks of the Turkey Branch of Rock Creek. "Connecticut Estates" as it's sometimes known, which includes the troublesome property also known as "Korean Korner", clearly is full of houses that are reaching the end of their designed life, as most were built in the early 1950s through the mid-1950s. And there are legacy design elements in places like South Aspen Hill -- such as the oddly large southern intersection of Parkland Drive and Grenoble Drive -- which could be adapted to their original purpose, an additional north-of-Veirs-Mill out-of-flood-plain crossing of Turkey Branch. But why would anyone need to do that? Why, to close the square around a development that has immense "walkability" potential, what with the large parks right south of Veirs Mill and commercial zoned strips at 3 of 4 corners of Randolph Road and Veirs Mill Road.

But that part of Veirs Mill Road that needs to be elevated another 15 feet to be mostly out of the 100-year flood plan, that's almost 2 miles long, you say? Wherever will they get that much fill dirt, you ask? Why, when they condemn the Randolph Hill strip mall at the southwest corner, they can shave down the top of that side of the hill and once deeply down to bedrock, it's perfect foundations for... high-rise high-density mixed-use development, and all of that dirt can go right down the road as fill dirt for raising Veirs Mill that obligatory 20 feet.

And that also clears out some of the uglier parts of Veirs Mill Village, who needs leftover Levittowns anyways. And while they're shaving down the top of the hill, and padding up the flat parts, why not level out the general run of the road so that you can run light-rail rapid transit straight from downtown Rockville to downtown Wheaton? With the present hills and grades, they'd need cog-rails like on the Swiss Alps, but with enough levelling you can have light-rail without cogged drives and that's very efficient. And you can build huge parking garages for all of the freeway-like traffic coming home off of the Montrose Parkway, and all of this construction will develop a local industry large enough so that when they finally decide to actually, not jokingly, Pave The Bay, it'll look like a job that's not much bigger than the terraforming of Korean Korner and Stoneybrook Estates and Connecticut Park Estates and South Aspen Hill...

Sorry to go on and on in an ironic high dudgeon, but I hadn't yet heard sufficient whimpering.

The problem around here is that they have a shovel factory, they really prefer holes, and digging is their favorite pastime.

Did I forget to mention the Planning Board voted to go ahead with their Georgia Avenue Corridor vision? Next on the drawing-board, major high-density high-rise mixed-use development definitely on the way for Northgate Plaza (Lee Development Group) and doubtless Aspen Manor. But first they'll have to bulldoze the Aspin Hill Pet Cemetery grounds to convert Harmony Hills to multifamily zoning and interim high-density housing.

It's already well on its way, to judge by the illegal hotel/rooming house that's scheduled to be passed-on as a "done deal" when the new "accessory apartment" zoni8ng amendment mysteriously sails right through the County Council in a form nothing like anything that was ever debated.

Note, that picture is not an artist's conception, it's actually there and you could launch a jet from the roof, if you had a catapult.

You may now commence with the shivering and expressions of sincere dread.

by Thomas Hardman on Dec 28, 2008 3:10 pm • link • report

I don't dread the Georgia Avenue plan. I think it's the obvious path that's finally been codified into writing.

As for Viers Mill being turned into a freeway, I think that's just a bad idea. If you think it's congested now, just wait until more traffic is induced as a result of more lanes.

by Cavan on Dec 28, 2008 4:01 pm • link • report

Traffic isn't added because of more lanes.

Traffic is added because of more cars.

Usually more cars results from more people.

The way to get more people is higher density, or more people traveling farther (sprawl).

And BTW -- even in my ironic mocking mode, I didn't propose turning Veirs Mill into a freeway. I proposed leveling it out so that a light-rail line could traverse the length without needing a cog drive to climb the steep hills.

Other people might propose turning Veirs Mill into a limited-access highway, moreso than it already is. It's presently a State Highway with really quite limited access along most of its length, it has frontage roads most of the length.

by Thomas Hardman on Dec 28, 2008 4:20 pm • link • report

Thomas Hardman: Traffic results from more driving. It could be more cars, or the same number of cars doing more driving. Adding one person and one car in Olney with a 1.5-hour commute downtown adds a lot more traffic than one person and one car in Wheaton near the Metro where the person leaves the car in the garage except for weekend trips out of town. And one person in Wheaton without a car, who occasionally takes Zipcar, adds even less traffic and causes less land to be taken up with parking.

by David Alpert on Dec 28, 2008 5:51 pm • link • report

Another factor to consider is that Veirs Mill Road carries a very heavy bus traffic. If you turn it into a freeway (which would mean no bus stops), you force people to drive who now take the bus.

The better solution for Veirs Mill Road is bus priorities. If buses move faster than the cars, people will shift to the buses, which already run very frequently.

by Ben Ross on Dec 28, 2008 6:04 pm • link • report

I can understand the project right up to the point where it diverges from Randolph Road.. perhaps even going so far as to improve the merger with Parklawn. Beyond that, they've lost me.

The most plausible thing is that they're trying to bring traffic that wanted to turn left off Randolph and onto Viers' Mill into a route that didn't involve the 2-light, 1-stop route through Selfridge or Dewey... but that's an obscure benefit for such a huge project.

Trying to smooth traffic passing through Viers Mill on Randolph(headed for Connecticut or Georgia or New Hampshire) by constructing an external system to turn onto Viers Mill? There are already a steady stream of traffic lights at Maple, Nebel, Parklawn, Lauderdale, Rockinghorse, Dewey, Selfridge, and a host of other roads that wouldn't be eliminated, which will still keep that from being a freeway.

Trying to connect Aspen Hill? Aspen Hill Road, and the combination of Randolph & Connecticut do a fine job of that already. The only thing needed is to bring it 'closer' to Rockville Pike with a Twinbrook bypass - connecting the Twinbrook Parkway and the Aspen Hill Road - Viers Mill intersection directly. That's a much smaller project than the East

I don't think this makes present-day planning sense (though I'd welcome somebody to try & explain it, in particular a traffic engineer working on the project) without invoking the benefits of future upgrades of Parkland or an organizational quirk which allotted an excess of willpower/momentum/money to the Montrose Parkway project.

by Squalish on Dec 28, 2008 8:39 pm • link • report

Wow. Someone sent me this great link and I just couldn't help but weigh in here -- not much to do this time of year, as you know.

As a one time leading advocate for the Montrose Parkway -- I also served on the focus group for the Rockville Pike/Montrose Road interchange -- I find it amusing that some folks really believe that it's "inevitable" that the Parkway will be connected to the ICC through Matthew Henson State Park.

I seriously doubt it. Here's why:

1. Once you create a park, be it under state law or the Maryland constitution (Are you sure about that?) and if any federal money is being used, it's next to impossible to build it unless you show you can;'t build it anywhere else. Sec. 4(f) is what doomed the ICC all these years. If you have a "prudent and feasible" alternative under 4(f), you cant build a road through a park very easily. More than likely, the feds would stipulate using Turkey Branch Parkway, which means buying up all the houses along there and demolishing them. Is Hank Heller living along there still? No chance.

2. Montgomery County could never fund an extension to the ICC without federal or state money. Imagine the cost of an interchange to the ICC? would it be $200 MILLION? Maybe. Even if it had the money, I cannot see the public and the enviro groups standing for this. They didn';t want a hard surface trail through there in 2002, how can they support a four-lane road?

3. It has taken 18 years for the Parkway to be built and it's still not complete to rockville pike. The 355 interchange construction has just begun. how long will it be before Phase II of the Parkway from Parklawn Drive to Viers Mill will be built? Another 10 years, maybe?

So, in conclusion, it would be another 20 years before you see any movement to connect the Parkway to the ICC and the Henson Park route is off the table. It's taken 20 years of wrangling over the Purple Line. I hope that's built sooner than 10 years from now, but I'm not holding my breath.

Thanks for letting me chime in

by MOVE on Dec 28, 2008 9:04 pm • link • report

MOVE - could you help out with the motivation for Montrose Parkway East then?

by Squalish on Dec 28, 2008 9:49 pm • link • report

motivation? The Parkway was put in the 1992 North Bethesda Master Plan. The master plan also called for increasing non Auto share to 39%, which was deemed in the late 1990s to be impossible to achieve. The alternatives analysis for the road started in 1995, or 96, if I recall. Montgomery County tries to live up to its master plans.

by move on Dec 28, 2008 9:56 pm • link • report

For a while I had presumed that this was a full-on replacement for Montrose Road through traffic... I see from the plan that it's supposed to be grade-separated from Randolph where it passes under it as an entirely separate freeway.

So all of this will leave Montrose Road as it was, and just add an entirely separate stretch of pavement to the south which deposits people onto an all-turn intersection with Viers Mill?

Who needs to use Viers Mill to get anywhere that they couldn't use Randolph or Rockville Pike to get there just as fast? Where is the congestion being alleviated?

The only places I see that get clogged enough to require a bypass are the areas around Montrose & Randolph, Montrose & Executive, and Montrose & 270. Randolph Road, insofar as I've travelled it, has been fine, and because of the number of single-family-homeowners doesn't stand subject to serious growth concerns. For this scale of development (in money, homes destroyed, trees destroyed, etc) they could do a lot of more useful things even in east-west roadbuilding, like connect Twinbrook Parkway & Aspen Hill ROad, widen Randolph/Randolph by a lane in each direction between I-270 & Vier's Mill, make Randolph @ Parklawn a normal fully-laned traffic light, & connect Tuckerman @ Strathmore to University @ Kensington. A 'parkway' being constructed through one of the only stands of forest left in the area seems like a cruel joke.

by Squalish on Dec 29, 2008 12:45 am • link • report

For those who suggested that I was proposing turning Veirs Mill Road into a freeway, go back and re-read what I actually wrote and then respond to what I actually wrote, or STFU okay pls thx.

Ben Ross: Have you even tried to ride one of the Viers Mill Road buses? Good luck with that. There is no better argument for private motor vehicle ownership and use than riding on any of those buses. If you are in a car or on a bus, you are still stuck in traffic, and in a car, you have a choice of who are your fellow riders. If your job requires that you be there in a suit and not stink, you'll drive a car. If your job doesn't mind if you show up for work with your ass beat to tatters and with your mind driven around the bend, take the bus. You're welcome to it.

Squalish: do any of you people actually



read and do research, or do you just spout off and entertain misconceptions? There is no access to Parkland Drive nor any point north of Veirs Mill Road for traffic exiting NE-bound from Montrose Pkwy West. I think I'll forward this thread to Nancy Floreen so she can roll around on the floor laughing. You exit that parkway onto Veirs Mill Road and take a left or a right there. The only traffic permitted to cross Veirs Mill Road is traffic from the firehouse or other emergency vehicles.

MOVE: Hank Heller no longer lives off of Turkey Branch. Almost nobody does other than lots and lots of TPR ("Temporary Protected Refugees" mostly from Central America's earthquake and hurricane disasters last decade). That part of 20853 is set to have the highest non-condo foreclosure rate in MoCo. If they want to rip up Turkey Branch Parkway and turn it into a freeway, it'll cost less than you think, especially under the newly expanded powers of Eminent Domain in the middle of a real-estate meltdown.

MOVE again: Study the history of Matthew Henson State Park. All that really happened was that the land stewardship agency was shifted from SHA to DNR and DNR isn't the maintainer, the maintainer/improver is MNCPPC Parks. If MNCPPC wants to stick within its own rules and State and Federal law, they can still do whatever they want so long as water and soil quality are better when they're done than when they started and in any case, the County has decided to move forward on the whole Montrose Parkway East project with only local funding with the exception of State oversight of a grade-separated crossing of the CSX rail line.

Now, how could water and soil quality be better after they're done than before they started? Easy: they are just now ending up a 3-year project to stabilize the streambed, and provide stormwater retention and cooldown and they've further re-bedded the streambed along its length and all of the construction-erosion amelioration measures are already in place and up to Federal standards. Further, they can get out through some other loopholes simply by elevating portions of any parkway through there and bridging the stream so that neighbors and visitors can walk from one edge to the other. To put the nail in the coffin of anyone suggesting "it can't be done", four words: "Rock Creek Parkway Extension". That particular overriding exception to anything else is the original Federal Parks Service master plan for Rock Creek.

I am not saying that this should be done, I'm just saying that it's quite possible and there's a certain inevitability to it, rather like death, shaving, taxes, and MoCo electing Democrats until we're all ice-skating in hell with the damned and declaring that we all both like the view and enjoy the company.

Squalish again: That's not "forest" any more than is the urban forest growing in people's yards, and no less. It's all second-growth or third-growth and almost nothing of the original natural ecology remains other than oaks, poison ivy, and the damned deer. Almost anyplace in MoCo where you see "forest", you're looking at development that's on the Master Plan but just hasn't happened yet, unless it's MNCPPC property.

So, in conclusion, all, if you want to have a genuine Nancy Floreen and F.O. Day Construction moment of TRUE VISION (sarcasm rendered in capitals) get with the picture. Bus Rapid Transit mixed with individual autos (or successor technologies) running from a new high-density mixed-use Aspen Hill CBD to a point equidistant between the Twinbrook and White Flint Metrorail hubs of already-densified mixed use destinations, over to the I-270 Transit Corridors. South Aspen Hill and Connecticut Park Estates get "revised" into an arcology, which ought to suit the gregarious folks who like to live in beehives. Enough concrete gets poured to out-do China's Beijing Olympics construction, wise investors get filthy rich from all of the diesel burned in the construction, etc etc etc. Think of it as a never-ending fount of wealth that won't end until comparable beehiving of humanity worldwide exhausts every last resource and completes the Holocene Mass Extinction. And in the meanwhile, lots of people have jobs and pay taxes.

If the sarcasm isn't pooling around your ankles by now, I can't imagine why.

by Thomas Hardman on Dec 29, 2008 11:31 am • link • report

I usually encounter less traffic on Veirs Mill and Randolf than I do on 355, Georgia and Connecticut. The buses, when I see them, are standing room maybe.

of course, this is heading south on veirs mill from twinbrook pkwy over to dewey off randolph at 8am and back at 7pm. in "good" traffic, I can make it to georgetown DC in 45 minutes or less. in bad, it can take about 1.5 hours and those problems are on 355 mostly. veirs mill is a much better way to go north/south faster than 355.

maybe we should look into more/better ways to ease traffic on 355 altogether? more buses and metro is a good start, but realistically, not as many as you think can take the metro/bus. perhaps another parkway parallel to 355 would be more feasible? off veirs mill would almost be ideal, considering it gets less traffic than 355.

by Thereal Deal on Dec 29, 2008 2:23 pm • link • report

Both Veirs Mill and Randolph Road tend to get less traffic than 355, or Georgia or Connecticut Avenues mostly because our commuting paradigm is still largely based on the "employment core/residential sprawl" paradigm that has descended to us from the days when the earliest suburbs grew up along the rail lines. Takoma Park would be a good example of that original style of suburb. Eventually the city grew out and engulfed it, a pattern that has been repeated all over the place, witness the engulfment of Alief TX by "creeping Houstonianism".

Veirs Mill doesn't really go much of anyplace other than between Wheaton and Rockville, so the traffic between those points is a bit limited. And once you're out of downtown Rockville and on the east side of the railroad tracks, there are a lot of alternate routes to travel east-west. Aspen Hill Road, for example, connects nicely from Veirs Mill Road to a short leg of Connecticut Avenue running mostly NE/SW and that connects to Bel Pre/Bonifant Road which is another fairly long E-W route with almost the run-length of Randolph.

The traffic problems on 355 are well-known to be related, in most areas, to the lack of certain key intersections being grade-separated. In particular, the intersection of Randolph/Montrose Road and 355 has been a huge bottleneck and now that is being fixed with the addition of a new grade-separated intersection.

As for buses, very strong consideration needs to be given to both Bus Rapid Transit on dedicated or semi-dedicated (in either or both time and space) rights of way. In addition, I need to reiterate a campaign plank that we need to "right size" our bus transit ideas, so that off-peak hours can run smaller vehicles more in the general traffic stream, and peak hours could run larger and more-frequent buses in reserved lanes. I have to argue against one of my earlier points, if the buses were made safe and pleasant and they ran as quickly (or almost) as autos, a lot more people would ride them, perhaps enough to justify sacrificing most or all of a traffic lane at peak rush.

by Thomas Hardman on Dec 29, 2008 3:38 pm • link • report

The Montrose Parkway was built the way it is due to politics, parochialism and NIMBYism. It was supposed to have been a fully grade-separated freeway from I-270 all the way to the ICC at conn. avenue, ,with interchanges at Rockville Pike and possibly Viers Mill and Connecticut. There was never any thought to grade separating executive boulevard because that area was developed in the 1980s while the State was futzing around with Montgomery County over the Rockville Facility. The section now known as Matthew Henson Park was removed from the right of way by Idamae Garrott due to NIMBYs in Harmony Hills and the turkey branch parkway area, which you note is now a slummy area. In another state law, Garrott prohibited hte state from even funding any road in that right of way. As a result, Montgomery taxpayers had to pay for what you see now. You also have no dedicated lanes for buses or anything. The old Rockville Freeway and the ICC could have been built in the 1980s for $250 million -- tops was $1 BILLION. The feds were financing 90 percent of highways then. Now, look how much Maryland taxpayers are forking over for JUST the ICC -- isn't it $3 billion -- and it's going to be a toll road, not a free road.

So, the Parkway was the best Montgomery could do given the NIMBYism and parochialism and lack of political will to build it the way it was supposed to have been built -- a fully grade separated freeway.

I can't imagine what the county taxpayers will be paying for both Montrose parkway east and west- - maybe $130 million? Lord!

by MOVE on Dec 29, 2008 5:23 pm • link • report

As someone who grew up a block or so away from the intersection of Arctic Ave and Aspen Hill Rd, went to Peary HS, and who now lives on Capitol Hill, all I have to add is: You folks are sooo screwed.

by ibc on Dec 30, 2008 1:02 pm • link • report

MOVE: Ah, I strongly suspect that it may take decades to un-do the unintended consequences of the career of Idamae Garrott. According to Scott M. Kozel's researches, until a few State laws are repealed and re-enacted, the only thing allowed to be built in that stretch of the Matthew Henson State Park ("MHSP") is a pavilion dedicated to Ida Mae Garrott. Talk about Cult of Personality! Yet somehow, despite that, a hard-surfaced hiker-biker trail has been built through it, showing the lie that they were too concerned about precious wetlands to allow any construction whatsoever.

As for the MIMBY element, frankly, South Aspen Hill is basically a festering monument to craptasticness; Hank Heller doesn't live there any more, I very strongly doubt that anywhere near half of the residents can possibly have a legal right to vote in the USA, and most of them would really like to have a job working construction within walking distance of their ugly little overcrowded homes with their junk filled yards and illegal accessory apartments. So whatever opposition there might be is likely to be from the larger regional or even national organizations that Love to Hate Freeways. You'd think that a fast and efficient way to get from the Sprawl to the transit hubs might make them less inimical, but that doesn't seem to be possible since they've nailed themselves to their own crosses and can pontificate only from those positions, so to speak. Maybe we could hand them some pliers so they could get themselves down and have room to move (again, speaking metaphorically) if we ran constant Bus Rapid Transit ("BRT") down the centerline between new high-density mixed-use sites scattered along the length, with provisions to expand to light-rail or successor technologies as need arose.

But really, I think one of the major reasons that the Rockville Facility fell by the wayside was this:

When first planned, in the 1950s, the US population growth rate was really quite high, middle of the Baby Boom dontcha know. But with the introduction of The Pill in the early 1960s and the legalization of abortion in 1970, the US population growth rate suddenly plummeted to quite near replacement rate only, and it was a reasonable expectation of planners that they could make do with what was already on the table. The real make-or-break moment in about 1980-1985 or so -- in terms of "build it now, or build it never" -- saw actual widespread concern in certain academic and planning communities that perhaps there was an actual extant Overbuild Situation as the reproductive rate continued to drop.

People who weren't there in those days can't quite understand the level of committment to the ecology and the planet environment which was circulated so widely that most of a very populous generation elected to have on-average a bit less than 2.1 kids.

The expectation of an Overbuild, whether extant or immediately forthcoming, also inherently led to thoughts of infrastructure lifestyle etc., with the idea that exascerbating overbuild would exascerbate maintenance costs. This was when the Club of Rome's "Limits to Growth" was popular reading and widely debated and informed a lot of urban planning and policy discussions. Evidently the Limitless Growth Until Destruction factions finally got their way, but one of the things done to forestall their ascendency, a putting of roadblocks in the way so to speak, was blocking all of the things that would make reckless expansionism a clearly dangerous course to be followed only by obvious fools.

Yet inasmuch as the obvious fools have clearly triumphed over restraint and commonsense, the population situation is such that without resurrecting the Rockville Facility, from end-to-end, combined with increasing levels of densification and mixed-use walkability, is unavoidable.

That it amounts to having to build a new addition on the house because nobody made the effort to keep the teenagers separated and in their pants, that's besides the point. What's done is done and you have to deal with it.

Of course, it better not happen again.

by Thomas Hardman on Dec 30, 2008 5:10 pm • link • report

ibc: You went to Peary? Me too. Class of 1976. Yikes.

You might be interested to know that construction is just getting started on a bridge to run from the Peary Lower Field parking lot and Rock Creek Trail, across Veirs Mill Road. Expected completion is about 18-months to two years.

And you're right. We are sooo screwed.

However, in terms of rapid access to Rockville Pike and points beyond such as I-270, once this construction is done, there will be few neighborhoods more convenient and desirable than Veirs Mill Village.

Think about it! Coming from Rockville, one right turn off of the Parkway and you're home in your 'hood!

Headed out to Rockville, one left turn off of Gridley onto Veirs Mill, and one left off of Veirs Mill, and you're on the parkway with a straight shot to the interstate!

Yay savvy investors!

That little shopping center is going to be the hottest little property for the upscale and frou-frou you can imagine. But of course, all that needs to happen to turn Veirs Mill Village into the most happening homefront for the Terminally Yuppie is to roust all of the riffraff. Expect that place to become Code and Criminal Crackdown Central just about halfway through construction. Remember, the place needs to be "cleared to be Quiet" so that all of the old crappy Levittown can be ripped out and replaced with elf-shacks um I mean Yuppie Townhomes by the time traffic is allowed to roll.

By 2013 at the latest it could be just as walkable and precious as the intersection of Kensington Blvd and Grandview Ave in beautiful revitalized Wheaton CBD! Quick, call your banker and work a loan, don't forget that the guy administering the TARP ('Troubled Asset Recycling Pogrom") lives right across Veirs Mill by Stoneybrook Park, so it's not like investment credit can't flow freely...

Yeah, we're screwed.

by Thomas Hardman on Dec 30, 2008 5:28 pm • link • report

Environmental concerns certainly played a factor in the demise of the "ICC/RF," as the two projects were called in the 80s. But it was primarily politicians like Heller and Garrott catering to their NIMBY constituents that picked the Rockville Facility a part leaving Montgomery County with the Montrose Parkway (at grade, four lanes, no grade separations) (I did forget the legislation creating MHS Park did allow for a statue to Garrot!). But despite the fact this area of Aspen Hill has gone downhill and there may be less of a NIMBY problem if there's discussion of putting the Parkway through there to the future ICC, you still have a money problem on your hands. I just don't think the state of Maryland, nor Montgomery County, has the money nor the political will to go much beyond what is called for in the master plan, which means the road ends at Viers Mill Road.

by MOVE on Dec 30, 2008 10:36 pm • link • report

MOVE: I expect you're right, for now.

Remember, of course, that we're all talking about the future, in a time-frame of not possibly earlier than about 2015. Also, please follow the link I left, above in one of my earlier responses, labelled "read and research". Note, if you will, that looking in the design PDF the Montrose East Parkway just isn't designed with obvious intention to continue down the right-of-way into the MHSP, however, it's clear that the design certainly has the road headed right that way and then it makes a fairly hard curve to align for the exit to Veirs Mill. It's not had to slap a "flying butterfly" onto that sort of thing, where the new eastbound "through" lanes are a surface extension of the already completed eastbound lanes, and new return westbound lanes simply overpass the already-existing westbound lanes and then drop down and merge. It's even easier if your proposed extensions are all elevated, which seems likely and even sensible considering the flooding-prone nature of the Turkey Branch of Rock Creek.

To broach a new subject, if they do not do this, then how exactly will traffic from the proposed high-density mixed-use Aspen Hill CBD at Northgate Plaza get to and from Rockville or the whole 355-Corridor?

by Thomas Hardman on Dec 31, 2008 11:06 am • link • report

Thanks for forwarding me a link to this conversation. Just a few facts are in order. The Montrose Parkway is going to end at Veirs Mill Road. Period. Years ago the Matthew Henson Park was created to forestall it from going further. You should know that we have recently funded a bus rapid transit study for Veirs Mill Road - something that's been on our priority list for the state for years, but they've never gotten around to it. This will look at all the right of way and operational needs for committed bus lanes all the way along the road. There are of course various interchange improvements in the works in the area - most of which are dependent on state funding which has more or less dried up for the time being. Bottom line - improved bus services will be the next frontier.

by Nancy Floreen on Jan 5, 2009 2:33 pm • link • report

i think you just heard it straight from the horse's mouth. no chance the Montrose Parkway will be plowed through Henson Park.

by move on Jan 5, 2009 9:08 pm • link • report

Thanks for stopping by to weigh in, Ms Floreen!

We're all very conscious of the current fiscal constraints, and realize that the span of "forseeable future" is a short span, one that can't be projected much past July 2009, as the situation is that fluid. Yet assuming that the skies don't fall on us, or that we all don't succumb to Pandemic as the medical community likes to remind us, population will continue to grow at a fairly predictable rate, though I think anyone studying that final matter would admit that population will probably grow here far faster than most would like to discuss.

In any case, what of Veirs Mill Village, which in roughly 6 years will be served by both the Veirs Mill rapid bus service and the completed Parkway? Definitely destined for re-development in a very upscale and highly-densified and walkable way, eh?

by Thomas Hardman on Jan 7, 2009 6:39 pm • link • report

There are surveyors at this very moment outside of my window. They are gathering information for drainage concerns for the swatch of MPE that will be side swiping our condo complex, Bethesda Park, at Parklawn near Randolph. The comments I have read here mostly have to do with driving a car and not with walking. I have been to almost every workshop/open house on this monstrosity and can say that it's going to be no picnic for pedestrians.Walking is bad enough as it is in its present state and they say they are going to try to make it better, but so far I am not convinced. How can it be better when the objective of this plan is to ferry fast moving traffic? And it will be fast. The initial plans I saw a few years back did not take into account the people who walk from our complex to the stores on Randolph. When I approached a project representative with this comment I received an answer of 'well, they are just going to have to watch out for cars!'.Let's hope that the planners have become a little more progressive in their thinking. I have written letters on this issue and have emailed the Council. I am not happy that MPE will be cutting through Rock Creek Park proper. It will go through wetlands just like it did with MPW. People will try to cross it illegally (as it will be continuous, I believe, till Veirs Mill) and we can expect more pedestrian accidents. Also more run ins with deer, who inhabit this area fully. I understand something must be done but things are never going to be better as long as we are so car oriented. And yes, there is a part of the population around here that just have no idea what it is like to live without a car. Everyone should try it. Ha Ha. Very likely...

by havecarbutwalks on Feb 5, 2009 2:11 pm • link • report

I'm doing some research on interchange "improvements" and development in my area and happened upon this post. Interesting reading, but I have to say that, sarcastic or not, Mr. Hardman's comments about south Aspen Hill, Conn. Ave Estates, Veirs Mill Village and Turkey Branch are just plain offensive and ignorant. I am a white female with a master's degree who makes over $100K/year and I live in Connecticut Avenue Park. Yes, it is a diverse neighborhood and it is not without its minor problems, but to imply that it can be bulldozed just because all the houses don't look like they belong in a Pottery Barn catalog and all the residents don't look like you is just plain wrong. There are others like me in this neighborhood who will fight to keep it.

by Anne B on Mar 2, 2010 5:47 pm • link • report

Anne B wrote:
I'm doing some research on interchange "improvements" and development in my area and happened upon this post. Interesting reading, but I have to say that, sarcastic or not, Mr. Hardman's comments about south Aspen Hill, Conn. Ave Estates, Veirs Mill Village and Turkey Branch are just plain offensive and ignorant. I am a white female with a master's degree who makes over $100K/year and I live in Connecticut Avenue Park. Yes, it is a diverse neighborhood and it is not without its minor problems, but to imply that it can be bulldozed just because all the houses don't look like they belong in a Pottery Barn catalog and all the residents don't look like you is just plain wrong. There are others like me in this neighborhood who will fight to keep it.

For someone claiming to be doing research, good luck with that. I don't know if you share a common problem about reading what you want to read so you can get up in a dudgeon, or if you're just being disingenuous for about the same reasons.

I do not know where you get the idea that I imply that the housing stock is old and many of the inhabitants a bit sketchy, I do believe that I came right out and said it.

Veirs Mill Village has been the local slum ahem "starter homes for dirt poor folks" since the mid-1960s if not before then. There have been some folks who moved in there and are practicing what amounts to "slumburbian gentrification" and for those who bought one of those genuine Levitt & Sons "little houses made of ticky-tack" and rebuilt it into a nice solid property in a good location, well, congratulations for doing the right thing, if not necessarily in the right place. By "not necessarily the right place", see my arguments above regarding the inevitability of high-density mixed-use at the nexus of several currently packed overloaded transit lines, which equally inevitably will (sooner or later) have Bus Rapid Transit or comparable high-volume people-movers.

Researching the history of Veirs Mill Road, it was at one time called "the New Cut Road", as shortly before the First Civil War it was carved in about as straight a line as could be between Rockville and the Old Annapolis Road (now Randolph Road). The expense was considered warranted because of the commerce that could be taxed. For comparable reasons, not to mention modern school Urban Planning tenets, significant re-engineering of that road bed will occur. For one thing, too much of that essential route is too deep in the flood plain, and for another, fuel savings could be realized on a large scale by grading down some of those hills. While that's being done, BRT or comparable high-volume people-movers are a sensible concurrent engineering and funding consideration, though in the present political and planning environment, BRT (etc) will as likely be the prime driver with the other considerations subsidiary to that.

Will neighborhoods simply be condemned and paved? I doubt it. Will someone someday decide that the "Korean Korner" shopping center would be much better used as the footprint of high-density mixed-use development aligned to mass-transit on Veirs Mill and Randolph Roads? Count on it; it's a no-brainer. Yet looking back to those lovely Welfare Enclaves that used to stand at 5th and M SE in DC ("Arthur Capper Towers" ISTR), and the effects they had on housing prices and surrounding blocks of residential neighborhood merely from being built, I can flash forward from that time to when the Welfare Enclave was torn down and within about 10 years, that and the surrounding neighborhood was largely replaced with Shiny New Commercial (business and high-density residential) development.

What I am saying is that this would be nothing new, this has been seen before, in fact everything I am saying is pretty much thesis material for almost anyone in modern Urban Planning studies. Go look at the original Rockville Urban Renewal projects to find the pitfalls. Go look at the potential playground for New Urbanism development at 4115 Aspen Hill Road once it's vacated in April 2010 if Northrup Grumman doesn't snap it up. Go read the MNCPPC "Georgia Avenue Study" proposals for Aspen Hill, and ask whether or not they'd build a shiny city at one end of the neighborhood but not at the other.

Right now a lot of what we see in parts of Aspen Hill looks a lot like the old "blockbusting" strategy, and what we see in other parts looks a lot like people retrenching for the long haul because of the value of their properties once the makeover is done and the new amenities (BRT etc) are installed.

So stay in your place, fix it up, and just pray that the Supreme Court revisits Eminent Domain and decides it should be more limited than at present... before the Powers That Be decide that you shall be paid fair market price in a market they destroyed, for the property from which you will be moved anyway.

Note, please, that I state in closing that I do not favor this: I do, however, see the logic. See also a classic of science-fiction by Tom Godwin called "the Cold Equations". Sometimes things happen that nobody likes but thy happen no matter what. This could be one of those things.

by Thomas Hardman on Mar 2, 2010 7:53 pm • link • report

I grew up in one of those little houses in Aspen Hill. It was probably *the* deciding factor in my buying a house in the city, and raising my kids here. Good to see the exurbanites are still making all the right choices. :)

by oboe on Mar 3, 2010 10:45 am • link • report

Depending on where you lived in Aspen Hill -- I'm guessing probably southern Wheaton Woods -- quite a lot of the "little houses" aren't so little anymore.

You may want to peruse the several Pages of Shame. In particular, take a look here and look for "towering doozy".

The plans for the Montrose Parkway East include demolition of some 8 houses and lots in Veirs Mill Village, notably on Gaynor Road right near the present Fire Station.

It's interesting to revisit the 1994 Aspen Hill Master Plan and see the flowery language praising Parkland Drive south of Aspen Hill Road, and Arctic Avenue north of Aspen Hill Road, as being exemplary of a Planning goal of creating airy boulevard-style neighborhood arterials.

Yet oddly enough, the western terminus of the Montrose Parkway East won't allow traffic to cross Veirs Mill Road dirctly onto the airy boulevard-like and highly-praiseworthy laudable planning-goal Parkland Drive. Ask anyone involved and they'll tell you that it's because of local neighborhood concerns about "cut through traffic". Considering the way that some of the folks park their vehicles at that end of the neighborhood, and how the neighborhood looks (see those "Pages of Shame" linked above), I suspect other considerations may have driven that decision.

Why not just move out of here and into the city? For me, the costs are a concern. This house is paid-for and a paid-for house in the ghetto is better than a mortgage somewhere else, eh? If you have a limited income as I do, that's definitely the case.

Yet if I were to long for that gritty city ambience I once enjoyed in the early 1990s living at the corner of 15th and Belmont NW DC, I can go get a taste of the former 14th and "U" NW (from before the revitalization) right there at Northgate Plaza or (saints preserve us) Aspen Manor shopping centers. If you want to get that feeling of grimness and desperation, take off your rose-tinted glasses and wander around the near vicinity of Connecticut and Georgia Avenues in Aspen Hill.

Once they finish the new Super Laundromat where Cycles USA once stood, the descent into low-rent urbanity will be complete; they've already got the 7-11 with a parking lot full of day-laborers and an intersection full of blowing trash. No matter how much you haul away in your pickup, there's plenty more to clean up.

By the way, anyone who has ever heard me railing about how "Aspen Hill is full of TRASH" needs to understand, having spent years picking it up and hauling it away, I know whereof I speak and I have photos of cops witnessing this. Check some of their arrest logs and you'll see that Aspen Hill is one of the places where they, too, spend most of their time picking up trash.

So no doubt some urban renewal is called-for.

by Thomas Hardman on Mar 3, 2010 11:30 am • link • report

I drove on the Montrose Parkway today . the trip going under rockville pike saved time nad money. SHA did a beautiful job with the intersection and i believe Mmontgomery COunty will do a beautiful job on Montrose Pwy East. And, the dumb Heller-Idamae Garrott restriction on Matthew Henson Park should be lifted so the road can hook up with the ICC. it will do wonders to alleviate congestion on Randolph Road and cut down on pedestrian accidents.

by MOVE on Mar 3, 2010 10:09 pm • link • report

@MOVE: No need to lift restrictions on the Matthew Henson Park.

Just overbuild the intersection of Independence Street and Connecticut Avenue, and instead of trying to reverse a an amendment to the Constitution of Maryland, just put up an elevated freeway on top of Turkey Branch Parkway, which is outside the bounds of the park! Duh, how simple is that, can't go through something, run your project parallel to it. Jeeze, you guys just haven't yet learned to think like politicians. Clearly you need to drink more and lose all sense of responsibility. Cherish your inner sociopath and you'll know what to expect. A lack of deviousness and failure to practice misdirection and strategic deception will not get you campaign contributions.

I might add that you don't seem to have any idea about the very high percentage of people who previously supported the ICC who will now never set wheels upon it. Why? They LOATHE the toll collection system.

For the "4-wheels-bad" car hating contingent, if you want to take 90 percent of the people off of the roads in Maryland, do what the ICC planners did: require people to pay advance fees to install a tracking system in their vehicles so that they can pay credit-card interest rates to drive a road that their taxes pay for, and have their driving patterns marketed to everyone from insurance companies to investors in strip-malls.

The best way to reduce traffic congestion, thus, is to turn freedom of driving into guaranteed admission to a police state. Right before the Second Civil War starts, the only people on the roads will be cheerful lackeys and dupes of the Caring Sharing Fascist Faction. Everyone else will be taking a hike out of that exceptionally special Hell that is paved only with the very best of intentions.

The ICC will be finished on time and nearly within budget and no self-respecting American will ever drive on it.

An actual elevated freeway paralleling Matthew Henson State Park running from the terminus at Viers Mill Road, of the Montrose Parkway East, to another terminus at Georgia Avenue just south of the intersection of Connecticut and Georgia Avenues. Run it elevated over the back alley of the Aspen Hill Shopping Center and build an arcology around it at Northgate Plaza Shopping Center, in the time-honored Seattle Style of freeway/urban-core integration.

BTW if anyone thinks I am actually serious, you need to repair your sarcasm detector. This could actually work but I can't imagine anyone actually wanting this.

Unless maybe they're only interested in laying down more concrete...

by Thomas Hardman on Mar 3, 2010 11:46 pm • link • report

I don't deny that there is potential in the intersections surrounding Connecticut Avenue Park and there will no doubt be development in those areas in the years to come. But to suggest that because the housing stock is old (and 60 years isn't terribly old for a house) that it will be easy to just get replace it is a bit less than enlightened. And perhaps you should spend some time in the neighborhood before writing off its residents. My neighbors are hard working people who care about their families and their homes. Judging by the amount of time on your hands I'm guessing you are up there in age so am surprised at your conclusion that older housing stock should be easily replaced.

I'm sure you'll respond with some long winded post about the world you want to see but I won't be here to read it. I've found some other sources where people are rational and have some consideration for the human element in development, which clearly you don't.

by Anne B on Mar 31, 2010 8:30 pm • link • report

I am tempted on the one hand to declare my endless love for all things human, and on the other hand to agree with your assessment of my clear and endless sociopathy.

But this isn't about my intentions, desires or attitudes. This is about the horridly "dispassionate" intentions, desires, and attitudes of Master Plan authors.

60 years isn't old for a house, unless it's a clapboard masterpiece whipped off by a cheap imitator of the Levittown experience.

I might also point out that if these neighborhoods were to be re-developed along the lines which I propose as inevitable -- whether or not I like those lines of development or think that it's a good idea -- a coalition of neighborhood residents acting as a common-cause corporation could get top dollar for those properties "en bloc", or sold as a major lot erasing all lines of subdivision and selling to the common-cause corporation as a single property. For the residents of the community, this would be exceptionally profitable, provided they can avoid the recent legal re-definition of Eminent Domain.

This puts aside all arguments to the "human element" and how hard people have worked or how much they love their families. If they really love their families they will put money in the bank for their families. Uniting as a common-cause corporation offering an "en bloc" land sale to developers will bring home the greatest possible return for their hard work and long years of paying off the mortgage for their homes. Selling as unit at the time will leave them prey to well-orchestrated schemes of "divide and conquer". Selling "en bloc" as a common-cause corporation will bring the best return.

But I digress. The whole point here is to recognize the inevitability of the future and to make money off of it, the most money possible, right? What matters the "neighborhood" when the neighborhood can negotiate as a group for the highest sale price? They can then afford to build a new neighborhood, where they can re-establish the same relationships, but in more modern homes in a much nicer place.

So, kindly tell me what is irrational or uncaring of human conditions, when I propose that the neighborhood bow to the inevitable as a group, make ridiculous piles of money off of it, and wind up living rich in a different place?

Everyone benefits, everyone makes money, the Urban Planning Beehive people can all be happy because it's transit-centric albeit "two stops out on the transit system" and not totally rail-centric.

Let's make it personal with regards to ME. If someone told me that if my neighborhood organized as a group to sell all of our combined properties and I personally would gain 2.5 millions to sell out. as would everyone else, I would not care much that my tired old ghetto would have every last tree and bush cut and have the neighborhood paved across from end-to-end.

Living rich someplace outside of the ghetto is in all cases preferable to living poor in the ghetto.

Get your priorities staight, okay?

by Thomas Hardman on Mar 31, 2010 11:02 pm • link • report