Comments on Barbecue Battle fences cut the public off downtown - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by ceefer66

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 11:19:06 EDT

Have to agree with thm.

Went last year and all we got for our 30 bucks wasthe chance to buy mediocre "festival circuit" food and semi-cold beer.

I was able to purchase a fairly decent bottle of boutique barbeque sauce, so it wasn't a complete waste.

Comment by Sluggo

Tue, 17 Jul 2012 07:18:16 EDT

Add me to the list of people who think there's no way a for profit event like this should be allowed to close public streets. It adds absolutely no benefit to the city. I've been wondering how they get away with this for many years.

Comment by dcdriver

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 18:10:31 EDT

Sadly those fences are not that much worse than those put up by the NPS each Fourth of July. Herding everyone through a few checkpoints manned by bored Charles County, MD cops is security theater at its most absurd. One checkpoint didn't even have cops, it was manned by temporary workers in yellow t-shirts with hand-written name tag stickers on them. The entire Iranian Army could have marched through in uniform and in formation and I doubt anyone would have noticed.

Meanwhile, if you wanted to actually walk from say the Martin Luther King memorial to the DC WWI memorial, you couldn't. They might be within sight of each other, but in between them were several sets of fences.

What better way to celebrate freedom then to turn the nation's capital into a giant prison yard.

Comment by Michael

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 17:03:37 EDT

Street fairs are a great amenity, but not when they surround the darn thing with a fence. That's the difference between a private event and a public event.

A private event like the BBQ Battle needs to be someplace private, or private-ish like RFK Stadium.

Comment by thm

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 16:30:23 EDT

@MM: I think that regular bus riders can get used to run-of-the-mill traffic delays. To a certain extent, these are built into the schedules; run-times are not constant throughout the day. And even though it can be aggravating to wait through, most delays are no more than about 15 minutes, and so the basic rule of transit still applies: show up before the schedule says the bus will arrive, and you will get to your destination. When buses are cut off and re-routed, though, this is not the case anymore. If a bus is re-routed from your regular stop, because of a road closure, and you show up before the schedule says a bus will arrive, you will never get to your destination.

Comment by thm

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 16:23:44 EDT

@kk wrote:

Any closures that are due to leisure activities should be made sure that they do not effect the transit of the city.

Agreed. I'd further add that this is a clear instance where the vaunted 'flexibility' of buses vis-a-vis rail is clearly a negative for transit users. I can't imagine that the decision to close off streets to vehicle traffic actually considers the impact upon bus users, because, as you state, these road closures and bus detours are a tremendous burden. I could well imagine that none of the decision-makers themselves are bus-dependent for transportation. Detours and closures are one thing for those with access to their own cars, which I imagine is the case for decision-makers here, and quite another for bus users and pedestrians.

This is also a clear case where streetcars would be a definite advantage for transit users, because just about the only thing I can imagine streetcar service being interrupted for would be the inauguration. Detours, of course, are a non-starter. For a transit user, especially a transit-dependent transit user who has to work a shift on the weekend, the non-flexibility of a streetcar would be a definite advantage.

Comment by MM

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:42:22 EDT

@kk

I get what you're saying, but I'll go out on a limb and say that weekday traffic congestion has a much greater deleterious impact on bus transit than closing down a few blocks on the weekend ever could...yet this daily "event" doesn't seem to draw the ire of folks in the same way that a once-every-few-weeks street closure does.

Maybe it's time to focus on putting our effort into making places walkable/open for "leisure activities" and then designing transit around that, rather than building spaces for transit/traffic and trying to occasionally make room for, you know, actual people. Hopefully that makes sense...it's been a long Monday....

Comment by Falls Church

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:09:51 EDT

But this doesn't pass the public good vs. public inconvenience test for use of public space. Granted, that's a subjective assessment

There needs to be some objective criteria that should be used to qualify private event's use of public space and if you don't meet the criteria, you need to apply for a waiver.

I agree with everyone who thinks the BBQ Battle is a terrible event on multiple levels. I think the only reason they manage to make money is that DC is transient enough that new suckers arrive every year thinking that they will actually get something of value for the price of admission. I was one of those suckers one year...never again.

Comment by kk

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 15:04:46 EDT

@ Tim Krepp & MM

So what about Metrobus; every time something goes on the routes are haywire and sometimes that just stop some routes on E street not even bothering to serve areas south.

Any closures that are due to leisure activities should be made sure that they do not effect the transit of the city.

I have used the bus on days when there are events BBQ Battle, parades and marathons and the bus system is totally fucked during these days. You do not know where to catch buses at sometimes routes are detoured so much that they are detouring miles from the original route.. I know this for a fact when i was trying to get from Logan Circle to SW one time and there were literally no buses going into SW so I had to walked about 2 miles at 10pm one night through SW/SE to get to a bus that was actually working.

Comment by Tim Krepp

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 14:56:28 EDT

@Rich No, it wasn't the worst thing imaginable. I would assume that would be a zombie invasion on the heels of a giant flood coupled with a plague. But this doesn't pass the public good vs. public inconvenience test for use of public space. Granted, that's a subjective assessment but "worst thing imaginable" isn't the standard we normally use.

Comment by Rich

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 14:47:16 EDT

Nowhere do you mention exactly what was affected and where you had to go in order to cross Penn Ave. Given that we have marathons that regularly close river crossings and shave ripple effects because of what they do to public buses and other traffic, this is isn't the worst thing imaginable.

Comment by MrTinDC

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 14:25:03 EDT

For those in cars trying to cross the Mall, this event closed off the 12th Street tunnel. I was on foot trying to get around to a museum on the south side, and I eventually gave up and went home back to the north! it was a fustercluck, and should not be allowed to be a closed-off event in the future.

Comment by Ron

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:53:28 EDT

I went to something like this in NY but instead of fencing everyone in, you had to check-in and get a wristband. No wristband? No food. Seems pretty simple to me. Opens up the event to people that wouldn't think to stop otherwise, and eliminates the fences.

Comment by Jasper

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:53:12 EDT

@ Bossi:I can say that all three of these can be addressed while still enabling the event to continue on.

Oh, that's fine. I agree. Things can be done better.

This is DC though. Where a mayor's corrupt election is seen as acceptable.

Comment by Ward 1 Guy

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:38:01 EDT

Agree with Bossi. The long unmarked detours for pedestrians are unacceptable.

I also agree with those who said that events like this should not use a "stadium ticket" model where they fence themselves off and charge $15 to be inside the fence. Surely there is some other revenue model that works. I don't know anything about this BBQ festival but I have seen the fences and they just look like giant pigpens. THere's no way we should be approving permits for this.

Comment by Arl Fan

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 13:03:45 EDT

If they're going to have flexibility in the transportation rules that permit events to inconvenience or even endanger every pedestrian and bicyclist in a swath of the city for an event, they could at least build similar flexibility into the health rules so that the event would be worth going to!

Comment by MM

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:55:49 EDT

I think the real crime here is that they charge to get into the BBQ Battle in the first place. I went one year, paid my $14 or whatever it was, and all I got was a long, crowded walk in the heat...no "free" food or anything.

Also, downtown weekend traffic is such that Penn from 3rd NW to 13th NW could (should?) be closed to vehicular traffic without disrupting much of anything.

Comment by Jon Renaut

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:54:42 EDT

My wife and I took the kids by bike to Yards Park that morning. I was towing the kids in the trailer, and it was a huge hassle to go around the BBQ. I think many who don't use them underestimate how important the PA Ave cycletracks are to cyclists. It's one thing for a car to make a block detour to take Constitution, but quite another for a bike. Constitution is like a highway, and not a place I often ride even without the kids.

Comment by Bossi

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:50:03 EDT

@Jasper-

Agreed that closures are part of city living, and my parallel article on my own site elaborates a bit more on how much I appreciate such a diverse number of events every weekend within walking distance of home. I also certainly agree that Penn Ave is a far better backdrop than RFK.

My concern isn't with the closures in and of themselves, but mostly with the length (a 20 minute detour shouldn't be tolerated regardless of mode), the lack of direction, and the lack of provisions for those with disabilities. Speaking from firsthand experience of, in the past, being the guy who doles out permits to exactly these kind of events: I can say that all three of these can be addressed while still enabling the event to continue on.

Comment by thm

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:49:46 EDT

One more reason to hate the BBQ battle. I went one year; never again.

The worst part of this event is that there is absolutely no interaction between the general event-attending public and the actual BBQ competition. Due to health department rules, the competitors can't sample or sell their product to the public, so the only BBQ available is some real mediocre stuff from vendors who do the fair-and-festival circuit. Otherwise you can sample the latest in processed foods being pushed by the main sponsor (which are in many ways the antithesis of the craft of BBQ that the competition is about) and look at the marketing tents put forward by major corporations with little or no connection to barbecue or even to food. In the end it's a (highly commercialized) mediocre street fair that you have to pay to get into--hence the blocked-off streets.

Blocking off the streets to vehicles is one thing; closing off to pedestrians for a commercial event of dubious public benefit is quite another.

Comment by Jasper

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:39:11 EDT

Hmmm. Interesting. I went to the DC 101 Chili Cook-off years ago, when it was held between the White House and the Capitol. They blocked off the street, but the side-walk along PA Ave was open to the public. Boy, those were the days. PA Ave is a much better ambiance than that parking lot behind RFK where they do it now.

In NYC, they do some foody market on a stretch of 6th Ave. But they keep the cross-roads open. No entry-fee either.

On the whole, I think that road closures are part and parcel of living in a big city and capital. We should not whine too much. We get the fun stuff as well.

And it's not only in DC. Last Saturday, I was held for half an hour on the VA-28N ramp coming from I-66W because Obama was doing something in Centreville. Clearly VA State troopers are not used to doing this because they closed the *end* of the ramp, which led to a bunch of people getting stuck no the ramp, others nearly ramming into us, and the most crazy ones backing back up into I-66. It would have been much safer to close the actual ramp on I-66, not the end.

Comment by plaidsneakers

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:28:04 EDT

We had a houseful of out of town guests doing a Spy In The City mission out of the Spy Museum that Sunday morning, getting from the Archive to the Old Post Office was a mess. Luckily across the street was close enough for our GPS units.

Comment by Bossi

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:26:19 EDT

@Huh?

Yep, to build upon what Tim said: my earlier draft did mention cars a bit, as I do agree that some events around the city can cause a good share of consternation among motorists, as well. But as I refined this to focus more specifically on the BBQ Battle I'd taken that out as on that specific day traffic was running quite smoothly.

Comment by Tim Krepp

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:22:39 EDT

@Huh? Saturday and Sunday are pretty light for vehicle traffic in that area. It's pretty much a ghost town and would be a great place for a pedestrian friendly event. If this event was pedestrian friendly...

Comment by Huh?

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:16:09 EDT

Pedestrians and bikes? What about the insane amount of car traffic that this is going to create? Sure, some pedestrians will need to walk a few blocks out of the way. I dont think this will be bewildering to even the most inept tourist.

However, having several streets just shut down might send several blocks of roads into haywire. Thats the real story. We get a couple days off from downtown gridlock, but events like these make getting around even during the weekends a pain.

Since these are events for private profit, as much as I like BBQ, I see no reason why they should be allowed.

Comment by Steve S.

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:15:01 EDT

Huh? I thought DC's "Feet in the Street" had to be in Fort Dupont Park because DC couldn't close a downtown street. How did this happen?

Comment by Tim Krepp

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:09:21 EDT

Exactly. Federal Triangle is a wasteland to cross, and fairs and parades can be a way to overcome some of that. But not if it's fenced off and inaccessible. I was working in that area that day and it was a real impediment to many tourists.