Wouldn't putting offices in Wheaton expand the goal of more cross ridership on Metro during peak hours, thus diffusing demand in one direction. Further, wouldn't it help make the retail establishments more viable as 15-hour businesses?

by Andrew on Jul 11, 2012 11:17 am • link • report

Wow. That Exchange project looks like they just scooped up Constitution Square, and dropped it in Wheaton...

Weird. We could use a bit less cookie-cutter architecture in our area... :-/

by andrew on Jul 11, 2012 11:36 am • link • report

I agree that typically you have to attract/build a workforce before office buildings will be successful. Typically, workers are more willing to take a risk on moving to an up-and-coming area than offices are. The main exception I can think of is New Carrollton which has a lot more newish office buildings than newish residences but that's partly due to government jobs locating in NC and the uniquely excellent transportation infrastructure in NC. Come to think if it, another exception is Tysons.

by Falls Church on Jul 11, 2012 12:10 pm • link • report

Suburban "edge cities" generally developed where there were shopping malls, which in turn demanded a large residential population within easy driving distance. So Tysons did start out with its workforce, which was basically everyone in Fairfax County who could get there in 20 minutes' drive. And since Tysons is at the intersection of three major highways, that includes a lot of people.

Wheaton (like Bethesda and Silver Spring) isn't directly on a highway, so it takes longer to drive there, which in turn reduces your "driving catchment," as it were. So you have to rely on (and build for) folks coming by other means. In other words, we need to build up a workforce of people IN Wheaton (who don't need direct highway access because they're not all coming in from 20 miles away) before we can develop an office market there.

by dan reed! on Jul 11, 2012 12:23 pm • link • report

Wheaton is a much tougher nut than Bethesda and Silver Spring. For one thing, it's farther from the District city center. For another, it is far less accessible to highway. Downtown Silver Spring and downtown Bethesda aren't right off the beltway, but they're pretty close. A few blocks -- two traffic lights, and you're there. The Wheaton Mall also takes up way too much valuable space close by the Metro. For all those reasons, Wheaton also has developed a less affluent population than especially Bethesda, but also Silver Spring. Consequently, the schools there are the weakest in the County. All of which makes the area much less attractive to potential new residents and businesses -- which means smaller revenue prospects for developers.

Wheaton will develop with its own vibe, that can't be too forced. However, because it's developing later, it could have certain advantages over Bethesda and SIlver Spring -- in the ways that Asia and Europe have advantages over the USA. Newer infrastructure has meant they have better, uninterrupted power service and utilities. Also higher-speed internet and much better wireless service. They also have high-speed rail and more public transit options.

Wheaton isn't going to have high-speed rail, but if the County wants to attract new development, officials should focus first on the surrounding infrastructure, and then later on the new development opportunities. Bury the power lines, and install higher-capacity lines for internet, as well as good wireless. Turn Wheaton into a hip community that's really wired in and really un-wired, too. Give Wheaton a brand that's unmatched anywhere. Build the infrastructure, and the people will come. Oh, they will come, Roy. People will come.

by Fischy (Ed F.) on Jul 11, 2012 12:44 pm • link • report

Given the choice between investing in infrastructure at Wheaton or schools (and assuming you don't have money for both), I'd choose schools. Why not put a Math/Science magnet program at one of the Wheaton high schools? First off, that's something the rich folks in the rest of the county would be willing to pay for. Second, it would give people from all over the county a stake in the success of the school, give the local students some access to the magnet facilities/teachers, and create greater diversity of affluence at the school which would have a positive effect -- i.e., if you see some students working hard and doing homework, that encourages other students to do the same. That's pretty much what happened at Blair after they put in the magnet programs there.

by Falls Church on Jul 11, 2012 1:03 pm • link • report

Falls Church- Wheaton High School already has bio-medical and science magnet programs. The high schools are nowhere near the downtown area.
What Wheaton does need is a hotel, which they would've gotten from the B.F. Saul deal.

by WheatonDuck on Jul 11, 2012 1:38 pm • link • report

A thought experiment:
B. F. Saul's proposal was for residential and retail above the bus bays. You and the Council in favor of the platform in that case?

by Dave in Wheaton on Jul 11, 2012 1:47 pm • link • report

The County Council was prudent. There's no reason to throw money to build offices when there's so much demand for transit-oriented residences. Residential-serving amenities will soon follow. The offices will want to pay premium office rents only after Wheaton gets a reputation as a good residential place. Offices are the last piece of the puzzle. First increase the population, then the local-serving amenities.

Offices will then want to locate there because they'll be able to compete for workers in a Metro-proximate location with good amenities. It will also get an improved reputation. However, the reputation lags behind the reality by at least five years. Offices don't want to be there until that five-year lag is over.

by Cavan on Jul 11, 2012 1:47 pm • link • report

The "too far out" crowd has clearly never been to Reston Town Center or any number of those little way-way-out yet sparkling developments in VA.

Wheaton's problems are similar to Silver Springs when SS was sort of run down with pawn shops and a crappy mall. It's clearly on the cusp of redevelopment. The presumption that schools will improve by pouring more money into them is laughable, they improve because the crop of kids going to them improves. That's the way it has worked in the County for some time, like it or not. Ergo you improve the community. Plus isn't the County always talking about go green and less cars--put their money where their mouth is.

As for office space, riddle me why office space and highways, really? Wheaton's what, 4 stoplights from the beltway? The distance is almost identical to Silver Spring. And it's maybe 5 miles from the ICC too. And it's on the Metro as well. Office-space is increasingly near Metro hence why you have vacant lots along 270 north of Shady Grove, so I don't see why it wouldn't work.

by T1 on Jul 11, 2012 1:48 pm • link • report

Wheaton HS's bio-med program is not like Blair's program. It's only open to the 5 DCC schools that are near the Wheaton area. That means you aren't getting the rich folk's kids at the school (giving them a stake in the school's success) and you're not attracting kids from the widest possible pool of applicants to ensure you get the County's best and brightest -- like Blair.

It's irrelevant whether Wheaton's HS's are near downtown Wheaton. What's relevant is what school will be your kid's home school if you are part of Wheaton's workforce. For example, Blair isn't walking/biking distance to downtown SS. You are less likely to attract a high caliber workforce in the suburbs unless you have schools at least as good as those in Silver Spring.

by Falls Church on Jul 11, 2012 2:42 pm • link • report

The presumption that schools will improve by pouring more money into them is laughable, they improve because the crop of kids going to them improves.

Which is exactly why you want a magnet program that attracts the county's best and brightest at a Wheaton HS.

by Falls Church on Jul 11, 2012 2:45 pm • link • report

The Council did sabotage the project by raining on B.F. Saul's parade. Wheaton isn't exactly a lucrative spot for development despite recent projects, including the massive high-rise above the Safeway, and developers willing to make a serious investment (especially commerical) in the area will be few and far in between.

That triangular eyesore Kiss&Ride/bus B.F. in the middle of the development area is wasted space and it makes perfect sense for it to be decked over. Saul was wise to pull out, considering the council's idiotic alternative.

by King Terrapin on Jul 11, 2012 3:26 pm • link • report

@Dave in Wheaton

I'd still say wait until the market's strong enough to pay for that development with private funds. I also don't know if I'd want residential right on top of the Metro (other than a hotel), especially when offices and retail might command higher rents.

@T1

I think we're overstating how bad Silver Spring was. Even at its nadir, downtown Silver Spring was surrounded by stable middle-class or affluent neighborhoods, both on the MD side (Woodside Park) and the DC side (North Portal Estates). Revitalization didn't just happen - it was supported by "good" demographics that made developers, landlords and retailers comfortable with investing there. Wheaton as a whole is less affluent than Silver Spring, but that may change. And Kensington is right next door, though folks living there don't go to Wheaton.

@Falls Church

Families in Wheaton can pick from the 5 Downcounty Consortium high schools (including Blair), but those living in or near downtown Wheaton have either Einstein or Northwood as their "home" school. Einstein has a pretty good reputation, though I don't know about Northwood. Since kids are guaranteed a spot in their home school, Wheaton High is less of an issue here.

by dan reed! on Jul 11, 2012 3:28 pm • link • report

Since there seems to be a focus on my comments, I'll respond.

Calling a school a "magnet" school doesn't make it one. I taught at Wheaton HIgh School. Nice kids, for the most part, but they were running out the clock on their education -- which is pretty typical of all the schools in Wheaton. Only a handful were going on to a four year school. The school wasn't very good, and I'd say the teaching wasn't great, either -- but throwing money at the school, whatever that actually would mean, wouldn't change the student body, which was largely transient Hispanics, who weren't equipped or inclined to go farther.

As for location -- Wheaton is outside the Beltway, in contrast to Bethesda and Silver Spring. That makes a difference -- a huge difference if you're commuting by car to and from the District. Six blocks can mean 15-20 minutes at rush hour. Four lights beyond the Beltway, perhaps, but it's cumulative. When you're slogging up Georgia Ave at 5:30, it's a big difference.

It also affects your mindset -- if you're in the Beltway, you're more likely to go into the District for entertainment, but not as much if you're in the less densely populated areas on the other side. Also, because the area resembles a wheel with spokes -- when you're farther out, the distances between the spokes are greater. It's much easier to move between one spoke and another, when you're in Bethesda than when you're up in Wheaton. Which is not to say it's impossible to move between Connecticut and Colesville, but it can be a slow slog on University, and much worse on Randolph. It doesn't help that the worst stretches of the Beltway run between New Hampshire and Connecticut.

Wheaton will develop, in part because there will be spillover from SIlver Spring's growth, and also because of the Metro station. I did say that. I am also saying it will proceed at a different pace because Wheaton has a few handicaps to overcome.

I don't think Wheaton needs a hotel right now, mostly because I don't see a huge demand to stay there. When there's a vibrant office community, visitors might be more interested in staying in the area, but it's not there now. I proposed some innovative ways for Wheaton to brand itself as different and better. To take advantage of the slower pace of development there to really modernize and offer superior infrastructure. That's a great way to attract new business...and maybe hotels, too.

by Fischy (Ed F.) on Jul 11, 2012 9:57 pm • link • report

Good post.

Some of the discussion of NoVA fails to acknowledge the Pentagon, other military facilities, spillover development in telecommunications and military contracting, and the efforts of people like Til Hazel, Charles Smith, etc., to capture this potential business. Similarly RESTON (R.E. Simon + Mobil) had a drive of its own.

WRT Fischy's first comment, I don't know if you know the piece "Economic Backwardness in Comparative Perspective" (or some such) by Gerschenkron, but it makes the same points about the advantages that can be reaped by developing various sectors later, that you aren't encumbered by sunk cost investments.

Anyway, it makes sense to take a more ground up perspective. It will be hard to bring office there, but there is no reason that some businesses wouldn't find it advantageous, although Fischy's other point about Wheaton Mall actually having the best potential for redevelopment (not his point exactly) is true. I don't think Westfield, at least in the US, is accustomed to doing this kind of redevelopment. It would be useful to find out more about their global portfolio, and see if there are some examples.

But the basic redevelopment model would be the Gallerias in Houston and Dallas (I've just been to the one in Houston) originally by Gerald Hines Interests. Except that it isn't one large development/developer, you could argue that the same basic model is being employed in Silver Spring and Bethesda sort of...

Dan's point about the parking lots is really good. Reduce risk. Start smaller or at least less riskier, at least now. c.f. the properties that went into foreclosure at PG Plaza...

by Richard Layman on Jul 11, 2012 10:27 pm • link • report

Back to the withdrawal of BF Saul, I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing.

To me, the area around Reedie and Fern already feels more "walkable" then any other place in Wheaton, and once the Exchange is complete, it will become more so. I say, build on this and redevelop along Fern and Price with residential and retail. I think this would be enough to reach a critical mass for the redevelopment of all Wheaton.

by DaveS on Jul 11, 2012 10:40 pm • link • report

Well, Im sad to see that Montgomery County lives up again to its anti-business model. As a long term Wheaton resident I had finally gotten my hopes up that we would no longer be the low income housing dumping ground for the county, and with 2 years of community meetings, buy in from all the Wheaton advisory groups, and general good faith it looked like there was going to be a good thing. But then the unions and the CASA/LEDC folks chimed in and their paid lackeys Navarro and Reimer sank the project. It continues to re-affirm my goal to move myself and my tax dollars anywhere (even DC) else.

by one-star on Jul 11, 2012 11:30 pm • link • report

Good post and good comments (with the exception of one-star's nonsensical rant, of course).

by jag on Jul 11, 2012 11:43 pm • link • report

I think the main issue is that the council tanked a proposed mixed use project to use the land for what will most likely become a single use county office building built with tons of parking for employees who will most likely drive to work, stay in their building and leave at night.

So, rather than making the most walkable portion of Wheaton more vibrant we'll have a black hole of a locked building after 5:30 pm. Kinda exactly like what the mid-county services building is now. Basically what happened is the council decided that they could take the best land in Wheaton for their new Parks and Planning office and pass it off as "redevelopment." It's a travesty, but unfortunately the County east of the western redline corridor just doesn't have the political power (rich residents) to drive development. Or perhaps we just don't have representation by the one political aide on the counsel (Sesker) who apparently makes all the decisions for the council.

by wheatonres on Jul 11, 2012 11:55 pm • link • report

Ugh, apologies for the last sentence, my Kingdom for an edit button.

by wheatonres on Jul 11, 2012 11:58 pm • link • report

Jag-

What is non-sensical?

Montgomery County is anti-business--their taxation, regulation and incentive models do not work when compared to the job growth of Fairfax, Arlington, or even the District over the last 10 years you have only to look at the numbers and movement of company HQ from MoCo to see that.

Wheaton/Glenmont is the low income dumping ground for the county. Currently in downtown Wheaton there are 7 apartment complexes, of which 5 (Amherst Sq, Pembridge Sq, Amherst Crossing, Ambassador, MetroPointe) are either owned or administered by Montgomery Housing Partnership. Bethesda by contrast has 1 senior only low income apartment. If you look at voucher distribution, you can see that HOC vouchers are concentrated in the Glenmont/Wheaton/Aspen Hill corridor in disproportionate numbers.

The BF Saul plan was on the table from 2009 onwards, the Wheaton Urban Development Advisory Committee, Wheaton Redevelopment Advisory Committee, and pretty much everyone who went to their meetings all loved the plan. The only objectors were
Fair Development Wheaton, who disliked that the work wouldnt go to union contractors
LEDC who objected to the lack of giveaways to the current Latino business owners
CASA who objected to the same, plus was concerned that "rising market rents would change the nature of the community"
All 3 of those groups give heavily to Reimer and Navarro.

Navarro's staff killed the BF Saul plan, and instead brought us the union built Parks and Planning building which will cost twice as much as BF Saul's office tower, but only be half as big. Additionaly, it will be staffed by union contract cleaning staff.

Thusly, all those groups win.
Navarro gets paid by the union and CASA/LEDC
CASA/LEDC gets additional county funds for "business displacement"
The unions get jobs
The county keeps the downscale feel to Wheaton, and can continue to dump their housing problem there and keep the rest of the county rich and lilly white

by one-star on Jul 12, 2012 12:46 am • link • report

I have to agree with one-star. The truth, is always bitter......

by Sylent One on Jul 15, 2012 2:19 am • link • report

Re. the point that Silver Spring was a retail and residential hub 1st. Silver Spring stopped being a retail and residential destination in the 1950s/60s when shopping moved to Wheaton plaza and residents began moving upcounty. Redevelopment occurred when several interdependent things occured at the same time: A coalition of residents, business owners and other stakeholders worked on a mutually beneficial plan, the county arranged for land; a developer attracted national and regional retail and restaurant chains and a movie theater; Discovery Communications moved in (after the county discovered it was looking for a new location); AFI along with others decided to rehab the old movie theater. Notice how all of these things depend on each other? While there is no magic bullet, an office tenent (like Discover) is a contributing factor.

by Sean on Aug 9, 2012 10:42 am • link • report