This is cool! (I'm just commenting to try it out)

by arm on Sep 7, 2012 1:30 pm • link • report

Testing... - It showed up as a gray bar the first time (the Silver Line? :) ), but worked great when I refreshed the page.

by Joe in SS on Sep 7, 2012 1:31 pm • link • report

Good lord.

How does it work with mobile?

I'd make it easier to report spam (same cookie to save email as with regular posts)

by charlie on Sep 7, 2012 1:31 pm • link • report

Nifty.

by JZ on Sep 7, 2012 1:34 pm • link • report

Very cool idea. How flexible is it with hyphenated station names?

by Corey on Sep 7, 2012 1:34 pm • link • report

Right now, it doesn't work with mobile because I reused the system which switches formats between regular web, mobile, RSS, etc. for this. So people on mobile won't see a mobile version of this particular post or be able to both activate this and see mobile on other posts.

When I make it sitewide, that won't be a problem. I don't think there should be any particular difficulty making these captchas appear on mobile too.

by David Alpert on Sep 7, 2012 1:35 pm • link • report

I'm willing to bet that someone could make an application that figures it out. The map is very clear, and the instructions are clear and easy to read.

Interesting, nonetheless.

by Tim on Sep 7, 2012 1:35 pm • link • report

Worth a try, hope it's successful

by Oddman on Sep 7, 2012 1:36 pm • link • report

charlie: Making it easier to report spam won't do much. It's already pretty easy and whenever spam gets through, someone does report it. But I have some other filters which stop a lot of spam, besides the captcha. If something hits one of those, it goes into the moderation queue, which just Matt and I look at. Lately, we're getting 10-20 of these moderated spam messages per day. So clearly those are getting by the captcha.

Corey: It will work even if you leave off the part after the hyphen, as well as subtitles or any other crud.

Tim: I'm sure someone could. OTOH, they seem to have managed to do it with the big captcha systems also. I'm figuring they won't bother to put a lot of effort into cracking mine.

by David Alpert on Sep 7, 2012 1:38 pm • link • report

just testing! Seems much easier!

by renegade09 on Sep 7, 2012 1:39 pm • link • report

TEST

by DCEmma on Sep 7, 2012 1:39 pm • link • report

1. This is great. I can never read Captcha and far prefer some sort of puzzle or question that requires human intelligence, and to fuse that idea with reading metro maps is fabulous. Great idea!

2. Unlike, say, the T in Boston, we don't use "inbound" and "outbound" as official public train identifiers, so if that's going to be the system, maybe you should stick to stations for which the answer is very clear. For example, it asked me what the next stop is if you're heading outbound from Mt. Vernon Square. I seriously had to stop and think about this, since I am a daily yellow line commuter and my train's final destination is always Mt. Vernon Square...so the only destination from Mt. Vernon Square is Gallery Place. I know that in/out are defined relative to Metro Center and Gallery Place, so I should be able to figure out the answer. I just had to pause, and the frustration of not knowing or being able to figure out the answer immediately is Captcha's biggest flaw.

by Nitin on Sep 7, 2012 1:39 pm • link • report

This has made me realize how awkward the labeling is at Columbia Heights and U Street. I wasn't sure which tag went with which, at first.

by Colleen on Sep 7, 2012 1:41 pm • link • report

i'm testing too!

by dan reed! on Sep 7, 2012 1:43 pm • link • report

The old captcha was too hard for me, hope this helps.

by goldfish on Sep 7, 2012 1:43 pm • link • report

yeah those captchas have been getting awful.

this is much better.

by Nick on Sep 7, 2012 1:44 pm • link • report

Thanks for this - the CAPTHAs were getting too hard...

by Sam on Sep 7, 2012 1:45 pm • link • report

This is more fun than the old captcha.

by Miriam on Sep 7, 2012 1:47 pm • link • report

You might want to make it a game and not put in a map. It would also limit the amount of responses you got from non-Washingtonians ;-)

by Max on Sep 7, 2012 1:49 pm • link • report

I save my name/email so that I don't have to do the CAPTCHA, but this is pretty cool!

by MLD on Sep 7, 2012 1:49 pm • link • report

Just testing...

by Taz on Sep 7, 2012 1:52 pm • link • report

I think we should challenge people to play Mornington Crescent if they want to comment.

by AWalkerInTheCity on Sep 7, 2012 1:55 pm • link • report

Help! Captcha asked me: "What Metrorail station is between Crystal City and Braddock Road on the Blue/Yellow lines?"

I answered "National Airport," but the captcha says that I'm wrong! j/k

Awesome work! FYI, the larger map sometimes doesn't work when I click on the Captcha. I got a 404 message the first time. I refreshed the page a few times. It worked some times, and I got a 404 error some other times. May just be me, though.

by Steven H on Sep 7, 2012 1:58 pm • link • report

My concern about mobile is the map may be a bit too small; although I guess the point is you should know the map by heart.

by charlie on Sep 7, 2012 2:02 pm • link • report

Testing...

by Miami on Sep 7, 2012 2:04 pm • link • report

Steven H: Thanks.

On the 404s, yeah, if it was showing the west or south sides of the system the big link wouldn't work. I've fixed that.

As for National Airport, I've set up a special case there so that National Airport will be a valid answer when that station comes up. I wanted to do that anyway and so this reminded me to set up the facility; that way it will be able to handle other station names where there needs to be some special treatment.

It's not easy to get that one to come up to debug it, so if anyone gets that one, give it a try and let me know if it's okay.

by David Alpert on Sep 7, 2012 2:06 pm • link • report

It works.

Much better. Your previous captcha was too hard for human beings to use.

by Michael Hamilton on Sep 7, 2012 2:07 pm • link • report

Next station, Southern Ave! Doors closing!

by Tom Veil on Sep 7, 2012 2:09 pm • link • report

Testing the captcha.

I'm a bit color blind, and find the red and orange colors to be very similar.

by ckstevenson on Sep 7, 2012 2:10 pm • link • report

lets do this!

by Tom A. on Sep 7, 2012 2:15 pm • link • report

Walker,

But which rulebook would you use? Sure the L'Enfant variant could cover the oceanic disconnect from Mornington Crescent, but unless we get a new North American/European connection, we'll need to make some revisions.

(Also, the "inbound/outbound" terminology can be somewhat confusing)

by Colleen on Sep 7, 2012 2:17 pm • link • report

Testing a creative anti-spam countermeasure.

by Mike B on Sep 7, 2012 2:31 pm • link • report

These spammers have gotten a lot smarter. I had a wordpress-based forum with a simple captcha (what's 4+4) that was continually bypassed by spammers. I then replaced that with another captcha that showed a bunch of icons and required dragging (via AJAX) one of the icons into a circle (e.g. drag the pencil into the circle). Spammers still were able to get through. I then combined them to have both CAPTCHAs, and while it's kind of annoying to legit users, I haven't had a spam since.

by Mike on Sep 7, 2012 2:34 pm • link • report

testing

by david on Sep 7, 2012 2:35 pm • link • report

Thanks!
I'd been harping on the Captchaskljasda thing for awhile.
This is almost fun!

I like someone's suggestion to NOT give a map.

Or make it more gamelike to have the map automatically hidden so that we can try our metrorail knowledge before seeing the map...

THANK YOU.

Awww but then when I failed (because I forgot to put the first 'n' in lenfant) I get the bad old Captjasdhlaskjd.

by David F-H on Sep 7, 2012 2:40 pm • link • report

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua.

by asdf on Sep 7, 2012 2:40 pm • link • report

Cool. Much better. The old captcha made me feel blind. Or illiterate...

by MJ on Sep 7, 2012 2:41 pm • link • report

Not Seeing it

by pb on Sep 7, 2012 2:44 pm • link • report

Isn't this extremely simple for a computer to spoof? Or are you just betting on the CAPTCHA being sufficiently novel that no one will bother?

by Daniel on Sep 7, 2012 2:46 pm • link • report

See it know. Refreshed page and it showed up.

by pb on Sep 7, 2012 2:47 pm • link • report

test1

by m' on Sep 7, 2012 2:49 pm • link • report

Nice work!

by Matt Johnson on Sep 7, 2012 2:51 pm • link • report

I do love that reCaptcha helps to digitize old texts, and I've never personally experienced the frustration that other commenters here complain about.

Nothing to complain about with this, though.

BTW, mine is "What Metrorail station is between Crystal City and Braddock Road on the Blue Line?"

I'm entering "National Airport"...

...and I got an error message.

Now entering "Ronald Reagan Washington Nation Airport" *sigh*...

...and it still doesn't work.

By hitting "Preview" first, I was able to get a reCaptcha. Fingers crossed...

by Lucre on Sep 7, 2012 2:53 pm • link • report

I like it - however, wouldnt this method would be very easy for spammers to circumvent? There are only so many Metro stations.

by MtVernon on Sep 7, 2012 2:55 pm • link • report

Are posters going to be penalized for:

1. Omitting hyphens?

2. Omitting station subtitles (e.g. NoMa's subtitle is New York Ave)?

3. Entering things in the wrong case?

by Weiwen on Sep 7, 2012 2:59 pm • link • report

Testing it out

by Testing on Sep 7, 2012 3:00 pm • link • report

This is great! And fun

by Ethan on Sep 7, 2012 3:05 pm • link • report

This is only a test; had this been a real comment your Smarttrip card would have been charged $2.10, this is only a test.

by Mike Essig on Sep 7, 2012 3:07 pm • link • report

This is not working for me..perhaps I am a bot:-(

by thump on Sep 7, 2012 3:12 pm • link • report

I should clarify. I have two buttons, "preview" which takes me to the normal Captcha and "post comment" which takes me to the Error page. I see none of what anyone else seems to be seeing.

by thump on Sep 7, 2012 3:15 pm • link • report

Right...apparently working now. I hit refresh and it popped up.

by thump on Sep 7, 2012 3:18 pm • link • report

Test

by Test on Sep 7, 2012 3:19 pm • link • report

Also testing since the regular Captcha is way too hard for me most times. Hmmm, nothing. I get the regular one. For reference, it's about 3:20pm and I'm using Chrome.

by rdhd on Sep 7, 2012 3:19 pm • link • report

I tested it out. it appears insensitive to case. judiciary, as opposed to Judiciary Square, is out. benning rd, as opposed to Benning Road, is OK.

by Weiwen on Sep 7, 2012 3:21 pm • link • report

Sorry, for my above comment, I should note that when I'm first typing my comments, there is no Captcha thingy at all. I only get it (the "normal" one) when I hit Preview.

I just tried to post this and got an error message. So it only seems to go through via the "Preview".

by rdhd on Sep 7, 2012 3:22 pm • link • report

Testing.

by jyindc on Sep 7, 2012 3:22 pm • link • report

Test

by Veronica O. Davis (Ms V) on Sep 7, 2012 3:27 pm • link • report

Thanks, rdhd, thump and others. A few people are reporting that the captcha does not appear for them. I am making some changes to integrate it with Preview that I think might help, and then will reach out to some of the folks who have reported the problem to try to make sure we get rid of it.

by David Alpert on Sep 7, 2012 3:33 pm • link • report

Test

by Jack Russell on Sep 7, 2012 3:43 pm • link • report

..how does this help me plan my trip?

by next train on Sep 7, 2012 3:49 pm • link • report

This is great! Thanks!!

by Transport. on Sep 7, 2012 3:51 pm • link • report

A rather interesting idea. I had heard that there were sweatshops in China/India where they paid people a few pennies to solve the puzzles - if that's the case, it won't take them long to get past this one as well.

I suppose if you really wanted to make it hard, you would take away the map, which would effectively limit posting to locals (or those who could bother to pull up a map) but there are parts of the system I rarely ride, and I suspect that this is true for most people here.

by Jack Russell on Sep 7, 2012 3:52 pm • link • report

Testing, cuz this is awesome.
(and I'm proud to be able to answer these without a map!)

by Justin..... on Sep 7, 2012 3:54 pm • link • report

This is a cool idea, but to bypass it would be trivial. No need for a program to decipher the map: just make a script that knows which stations are where and knows the three or so types of questions that are asked.

I don't know how much traffic is enough traffic to make that worthwhile for a spammer. But you could make it much harder to beat (and also much harder for you to code) if you used a customized, randomly generated map each time.

by DavidRF on Sep 7, 2012 3:56 pm • link • report

"What Metrorail station is between Crystal City and Braddock Road on the Blue Line?"

Potomac Yards? (Just kidding - sort of)

I'm a little dubious about this new approach because not everyone who posts here is that familar with the DC Metro system. On the other hand, it could lend itself to a April 1 captcha subsitute of 1) The NYC subway system or 2) a fantasy DC Metro system with a re-routed Blue Line, completed Silver & Purple Lines.

by AlanF on Sep 7, 2012 3:59 pm • link • report

Test!

by Ron on Sep 7, 2012 3:59 pm • link • report

I have had the non-appearing CAPTCHA problem before - I think it is because there is already one on the page. When I had this problem before it was on articles where there was a form letter to sign and send with a CAPTCHA on it.

by MLD on Sep 7, 2012 4:01 pm • link • report

Jack Russell -- I've heard the same, but that the fount of Captcha-solvers includes college students and homemakers earning extra pennies in the US, not just sweatshop workers in Asia.

Even if the map system doesn't deter spam, it's aesthetically such an improvement that it's worth keeping!

by Arl Fan on Sep 7, 2012 4:06 pm • link • report

Hopefully they won't write custom code because this should be pretty straightforward to crack.

by Chris Slatt on Sep 7, 2012 4:16 pm • link • report

@Chris Slatt: Clearly, they could write an algorithm to solve these questions, but I find it unlikely they would want to. They want to crack reCaptcha because a lot of people use it.

But also, once I've built my own captchas I can easily add new questions that could be harder. Or even if I add ones that aren't harder, if they write custom code, then I can add new ones and they'd have to again, and so on. So it becomes easier for me to make the captcha harder or just change it around to fool anyone who's for some reason taken the time to crack it.

@MLD: This is another advantage of switching to my own captchas. ReCaptcha wouldn't allow 2 on one page, but the way I've coded it there should be no problem doing that. This will allow me to have a petition form and a comment form if I want to.

by David Alpert on Sep 7, 2012 4:34 pm • link • report

This is really cool

by Michael on Sep 7, 2012 4:49 pm • link • report

I really like this idea. Like others, I had trouble with the old system.

by Laura on Sep 7, 2012 4:52 pm • link • report

Test

by Josh on Sep 7, 2012 5:00 pm • link • report

Great feature idea.

Bug: On previewing, the reCAPTCHA test pops up.

by Oliver on Sep 7, 2012 5:19 pm • link • report

Bug: Mobile layout is not loading for this page. Is this a bug or is the layout temporarily turned off for this test?

Device is Galaxy Nexus running Android 4.1 Chrome stable. Other pages load standard desktop layout.

by Oliver on Sep 7, 2012 5:25 pm • link • report

Weee!! Very nice.

by Adam L on Sep 7, 2012 5:28 pm • link • report

Naylor Road

by spookiness on Sep 7, 2012 5:36 pm • link • report

test

by Drew Sheltie on Sep 7, 2012 5:40 pm • link • report

Yes this is cool. I will try it exactly as the map displays the station name. No added periods etc.

by Over the River on Sep 7, 2012 5:56 pm • link • report

You've achieved "Peak GGW"! http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2012/09/07/the-needle-peak-greater-greater-washington-achieved/

by david on Sep 7, 2012 6:13 pm • link • report

testing

by Kevin Geng on Sep 7, 2012 6:25 pm • link • report

This is so cool. And I think we are all dorks.

by elizqueenmama on Sep 7, 2012 6:57 pm • link • report

Very excellent helpful post. Cheap Rx available here. Just kidding, I'm about to test the CAPTCHA

by Joe Chapline on Sep 7, 2012 7:23 pm • link • report

What does SE mean in this address?

by Wu on Sep 7, 2012 7:58 pm • link • report

This is cool! Nice work, David.

by imperator3733 on Sep 7, 2012 8:47 pm • link • report

Cool idea

by JohnQ on Sep 7, 2012 10:52 pm • link • report

Testes one two three

by Lindemann on Sep 7, 2012 11:12 pm • link • report

If this comment appears, then the system worked for me.

by Jeff on Sep 8, 2012 1:25 am • link • report

Just testing.

by JJJ on Sep 8, 2012 1:34 am • link • report

insomnia

by Insomniac on Sep 8, 2012 2:51 am • link • report

Just trying your system.

by John on Sep 8, 2012 6:52 am • link • report

Posting to try out new Captcha!

by Guest34 on Sep 8, 2012 6:52 am • link • report

VERY VERY VERY COOL! Well, how can I know that if I have not yet posted this comment. Interesting, eh?

by Mike on Sep 8, 2012 9:26 am • link • report

Brilliant!!! I just hope the questions aren't going to be too hard for me ;-) hehe

by Tina Slater on Sep 8, 2012 9:58 am • link • report

assuming it does not signficantly degrade the value, I would recommend you not make it case sensitive and allow either hyphens or no hyphens (did I spell that right??). Which gets to the other point ... can you accomodate a typo error in Captcha? If you make it too precise people will give up in frustration. As it is, I had to study the map for longer than it takes to read letters and symbols. There is a limit to what folks will tolerate. Case in point: I did not pass the test on the first attempt. 4th attempt.

by greg on Sep 8, 2012 10:40 am • link • report

European or African swallow?

by Crickey7 on Sep 8, 2012 10:49 am • link • report

Test

by redlinerider on Sep 8, 2012 1:26 pm • link • report

Testing, testing 1.2.3

by Gigs on Sep 8, 2012 1:43 pm • link • report

Cool - it works! The captcha thing has gotten very difficult to read lately so I like this twist on it.

by Gigs on Sep 8, 2012 1:46 pm • link • report

Awesome!

by Marley on Sep 8, 2012 4:22 pm • link • report

Just trying this out. It's definitely an interesting idea. I've been annoyed by getting captchas wrong, so it's nice not to have to worry about that.

by Mario on Sep 8, 2012 4:51 pm • link • report

Its okay but I have some questions that have probably been asked already

1 Do you have to spell out stations fully ?

Can I put rd or road, ave or avenue, sq or square, hgts hts or heights, u or univ or univerity, sta or stat or station, plz or plaza

2 Hyphens

3 Large and Small names (Gallery Place Chinatown, Noma-Gallaudet New York Ave or Addison Road Seat Pleasant) would it accept Chinatown or New York Ave if someone put that.

4 Name changes to stations Noma (WMATA site gets confused if you put NOMA in the trip planner and will ask do you mean New York Ave)

5 If there is ever a question asking about how you would get to a place via rail please take note that there are anywhere between 2 and 4 options to get between some stations

6 Inbound/Outbound, North/South, East/West could any questions involing them be specific to the lines cause some trains do travel north for portions going south or south when going east (Blue,Orange lines between Rosslyn and Minnesota ave or Benning Road or the Green line between South Ave and Naylor Rd)

by kk on Sep 8, 2012 5:04 pm • link • report

I just was able to intentional put in a wrong answer and it work. I typed in wrong answer it brough me to a page that said it was wrong then just pressed post again and it work

by kk on Sep 8, 2012 5:14 pm • link • report

Testing. This is a cool idea... I hope it works.

by JPG on Sep 8, 2012 5:34 pm • link • report

Good idea. Like any lock, it's only a deterrent, but hopefully it'll be enough to deter the lazy hacker.

by Sayne on Sep 8, 2012 6:48 pm • link • report

Few comments and concerns:

What about the blind? While text is available, it would likely take them at least 5 minutes to pull up a textual "map" if they are not familiar with that part of the system.

Use of "outbound/inbound". For a public website that attempts to reach a broader cross-section of the public than just transit enthusiasts and urbanists, the use of the terms outbound or inbound is jargon that they may not understand. For example, if a person lives by Eastern Market and works in Rosslyn, is their commute inbound or outbound?

Use of directions. Not everyone has an internal sense of direction, like I would guess most people posting here do. While it is easy and intuitive for most of the regulars here to point to the north even if they were spun around blindfolded, for some they are absolutely clueless about what direction they are even facing! Besides, what direction is east from Arlington Cemetery? An argument could be made that both directions are east, depending on how you look at it!

While the concept is certainly an interesting one, I feel as if it falls woefully short in many areas, in ways that create a feeling of exclusiveness. As an example, if a main national paper happens to link to a post on GGW, then readers would be drawn from everywhere. If someone has never been to DC, and isn't naturally fascinated with transit or maps, how are they to be expected to know where a station is, what direction is north, what the map they are looking at is even about (!), etc. As mentioned before, it is about as complex as the "European or African Swallow" skit by Monty Python to many people.

REVIEW PAGE EDIT: "U Street" is not an acceptable answer.

by Zmapper on Sep 8, 2012 8:21 pm • link • report

What does "outbound" mean in this case? Any train leaving the station is outbound, so are you going north (Forest Glen) or south (Takoma)? Captcha is evil. This is only slightly less so.

by Susan Bodiker on Sep 8, 2012 8:53 pm • link • report

excellent idea!

by egk on Sep 8, 2012 9:58 pm • link • report

Another "error":

"What Metrorail station is between Cheverly and New Carrollton on the (full time) Orange Line?"

How is someone who does not know what Orange Line the site is talking about be able to tell which one is the full time one, and which one isn't. One may suggest to look at the map if they do not know, but if you open the map there is no legend! Basically, that question asks someone who may not be familiar with the system to take a blind guess.

by Zmapper on Sep 8, 2012 10:09 pm • link • report

Test

by Jmauro on Sep 8, 2012 11:47 pm • link • report

This is an awesome feature.
Love it,
-Karl

by Karl on Sep 9, 2012 9:21 am • link • report

Testing kk's point

by David Alpert on Sep 9, 2012 10:02 am • link • report

Testing!

by Nancy on Sep 9, 2012 12:44 pm • link • report

How does this work with screen readers?

by David R. on Sep 9, 2012 2:09 pm • link • report

Tango-Echo-Sierra-Tango Echo-Nov-Tango-Romeo-Yankee

by Ted K. on Sep 9, 2012 5:57 pm • link • report

Fun!

But I'd echo David R.'s question--how does this interface with adaptive tech? Capcha, for all its faults, has an audio option. It would be very sad if people with sight disabilities now couldn't comment on GGW.

by Mister Goat on Sep 9, 2012 8:28 pm • link • report

I didn't read all comments so this might have been covered, but it would be nice to bold or accentuate the question so it stands out from the instructions. Also, questions should remain relatively simple like, "what color line is the ______ station on," rather than asking more complicated questions like, "what the next station heading northeast?" Not everyone knows cardinal directions or inbound/outbound directions.

by Clark on Sep 10, 2012 9:40 am • link • report

Just testing.

by Alex on Sep 10, 2012 9:42 am • link • report

Another "error":
"What Metrorail station is between Cheverly and New Carrollton on the (full time) Orange Line?"

How is someone who does not know what Orange Line the site is talking about be able to tell which one is the full time one, and which one isn't. One may suggest to look at the map if they do not know, but if you open the map there is no legend! Basically, that question asks someone who may not be familiar with the system to take a blind guess.

There is only one place where those stations are though, so really even mentioning the line is redundant. You don't have to know which part is full time and which is rush-only to identify those two stations and see which one is in-between.

by MLD on Sep 10, 2012 9:53 am • link • report

Is Spam really a big problem in the comments at this site?

by Jack Love on Sep 10, 2012 10:13 am • link • report

Actually that (prior) should be "spam" (lower case "s") but I had no Metro challenge to answer. Is it turned off now?

by Jack Love on Sep 10, 2012 10:15 am • link • report

I think you're overthinking it.

What about simple questions like "What is the animal in the picture above?" (showing a dog, a cat, etc) or "What do you get when you subtract three from 8?" or "Three days before Tuesday is which day?"

Or forcing email-confirmed accounts on people with a 24-hour waiting period before first post?

This just seems a little too cute.

by Jack Love on Sep 10, 2012 10:18 am • link • report

Test!

by Thaddeus Bell on Sep 10, 2012 10:28 am • link • report

This is just a test.

by JohnB on Sep 10, 2012 11:18 am • link • report

Test

by David Alpert on Sep 10, 2012 2:03 pm • link • report