Comments on Vancouver-style Anacostia ferries and the Water Mall - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by Alex B.

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 12:29:16 EDT

Payton makes a good point - both the land use of False Creek and the geometry of serving those destinations via some sort of transit service favors a ferry for many trips.

I would argue that neither of those conditions are true in DC. We've discussed land use, but the layout of our waterways is even more inconvenient.

I also mentioned in a previous comment the no-wake restrictions on the Anacostia and the bulk of the Washington Channel, meaning that boats must move very slowly. That only exacerbates the problem.

Successful ferries work because the ferry offers the best (and often only) way to make that particular trip. In Seattle, the Bainbridge Island ferry works well because the alternative drive is a much longer trip. Same thing for the Staten Island ferry in New York - the alternative routes are much longer.

I think there is a role for river transport in DC, but the niche will be for the experience of being in a boat, not for the actual transportation value - and I'd have to echo the other commenters who call this a solution looking for a problem. If someone wants to operate ferries for the purposes of sightseeing and fun, so be it - but that's not a transit system anymore than the double-decker buses we have in DC are part of the transit system.

Comment by Payton

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 12:26:43 EDT

BTW, water taxis could prove useful at other points along the river which aren't quite so peninsular in their geography. In addition to the existing docks, NPS is considering a new boathouse in Rosslyn, and another landing could be built at Four Mile Run under the Potomac Yard transitway.

As enticing as The Wharf's waterfront might seem, it's still on the nautical equivalent of a cul-de-sac, 1.5+ miles away from the main stem of the Potomac.

Comment by Payton

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 12:16:32 EDT

I live near the existing water taxi service. Even though I love little boats and have promised my parents a ride aboard the water taxi, I have yet to come up with an occasion for it. Because of Greenleaf Point (Ft. McNair) and Hains Point, the distances between the docks are much further via water than they are via land. It's faster to walk or bike between all of its stops.

Maybe once Buzzard Point, Poplar Point, and Reservation 13 get developed... but even then, I think the Anacostia Riverwalk Trail will be much more important as a mode of transit. Another consideration is that our bridges aren't quite as high as Vancouver's, which removes one of the barriers to walking across them. (There, the ramps are a few blocks inland, so to get from shore to shore requires going inland, then up and over, then backtracking. No such need here.)

BTW, the reference to the "Water Mall" made me think that Alpert was advocating flooding the Mall.

Comment by selxic

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 10:02:33 EDT

None of that can happen until the US invests in real high speed rail, kk. Arlington Cemetery should be relocated as well. That's valuable space.

Comment by Alex Pline

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 08:42:53 EDT

Rather than promoting an Anacostia "build it and they will come", why not promote good ferry service between downtown and National Harbor which is already built and a bastion of auto-dependence hell. That seems a much better use of your effort.

Comment by OctaviusIII

Wed, 03 Oct 2012 00:47:06 EDT

In short: yes, ferries could be used on the Anacostia. It's important to get the concept out in the ether, even if it is rather premature.

For the moment, there is so much to do to make the waterfront an inviting place that it will involve building not just one but a whole series of neighborhoods. A ferry should be kept in mind as a potential driver of a second and subsequent neighborhoods to draw from the energy of a revitalized SW. I'd rather the riverfront not be seen as a Mall but rather as much more built district, with the museums and monuments integrated into the streetscape.

A fantastic lesson of False Creek is its turnaround from a heavily polluted, industrial, semi-abandoned mess of a waterway into one of the centerpieces of Vancouver. Granville Island wasn't light industrial, it was heavy, heavy industry. Fires used to rage when the pig fat in which they'd pack spools of cable made on the island would ignite. One doesn't recognize the place.

I can only hope that the Anacostia becomes as nice as False Creek; the ferry would just be the icing on top.

Comment by H Street LL

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 21:56:46 EDT

Just chiming in to say that I think drumz and kk have been the two best commentators for the last couple of months. For real.

Comment by kk

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 21:42:18 EDT

Is there any chance we could get rid of Ft McNair, National Airport, Bolling AFB, and Anacostia Park or move them off the shores of the River. There would be reason for a ferry if we did not have facilities that have no reason in this age to be along the river.

Comment by Tom Coumaris

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 18:20:20 EDT

Ferries in Vancouver are more a necessity than a tourist draw.

andrew's right, most of the EOTR waterfront is the freeway and it keeps getting enlarged.

Comment by Richard Layman

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 17:15:09 EDT

+ 1 to andrew re: Let's focus on getting people down near the river (and interested in crossing it) first.

Comment by andrew

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:40:32 EDT

Realistically, there is only one quasi-residential neighborhood that's anywhere near the banks of the Anacostia (Near Southeast).

Anacostia Park, industrial sites, and military assets occupy the remainder of the river's banks. The residents of Anacostia are isolated from their river by 295, and there's not much else east of Buzzard Point.

The Washington Channel is a different matter, and I could see a cheap ferry from the Southwest Waterfront to Hains Point and the East Potomac Golf Course being used during the summer months. It also makes a lot of sense to extend the Banneker Overlook to reach the waterfront.

But, that's about it. Let's focus on getting people down near the river (and interested in crossing it) first.

Comment by Bossi

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 15:37:40 EDT

Fun thought about lost waterfront area: you could fit Rosslyn, Courthouse, Clarendon, Virginia Sq, Ballston, Pentagon City, & Crystal City downtowns *all* into National Airport's footprint.

Comment by drumz

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 13:17:16 EDT

So basically, the ferries could work if a number of specific conditions are met. Many of which are not being actively or seriously discussed at the moment?

Comment by M.V. Jantzen

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 13:12:35 EDT

DC should definitely encourage more development along the Anacostia, while protecting and strengthening the waterfront park system. Ferries (and trollies) are worth fighting for because they are FUN.

And for tourists, there's more we could do to let them experience our rivers. The Lincoln Memorial already has the wonderful watergate steps leading to the river; why not have a ferry stop there? Likewise the Jefferson Memorial has a wonderful waterfront plaza right in front. The Inlet and Outlet bridges are too low for boat traffic, but another entrance could be added to the Tidal Basin. And people have been clamoring for years for the Kennedy Center to add an entrance to the river.

Comment by beatbox

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 13:00:57 EDT

"No neighborhood on either side of the Anacostia will have anywhere near the population density of Vancouver's Yaletown, whose towers exceed 30 stories tall"

You pretty much answered your question right there. Ferries and water taxis just won't work in DC. There is not the demand. It has been tried and tried again.

Comment by H Street LL

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 12:53:16 EDT

I'm fine with the DC gov subsidizing a ferry system.

Comment by Rich

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 12:44:08 EDT

This seems like a solution in need of a problem, which seemed to be the jist of the prior discussion. The changes to SW will occur over a long period of time. The Anacostia suffers from may problems associated with having been a neglected, industrial waterway and beyond people involved in environmenal issues is unlikely to be much of an attraction for a long time.

Comment by Dan Miller

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 12:36:16 EDT

Even if it does develop into a second Mall, I doubt that whatever's over there will have the drawing power of Air and Space or Natural History.

Comment by james

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 12:35:09 EDT

"If we can draw tourists to the river, they could fill the ferries."

So development is the means and ferries are the end? Seems like a backwards approach.

Don't get me wrong, this is fun to think about. But, ferries should be a means to an end, not the end. At some point soon, DC will have to find other land to develop. They've done it around the Navy Yard and they'll have to do it other places, too. If that happens, then, sure, ferries might be a way to transport people.

Oh, and whenever I look at a satellite image of DC and think about development, my eyes go right to East Potomac Park.

Comment by selxic

Tue, 02 Oct 2012 12:31:04 EDT

I still don't understand why the area should want these ferries.