Comments on Hill East changes tune on commercial strip - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by Drumz

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 18:11:01 EDT

One time when I didn't have a Philips head screwdriver I figured out a way to use a flat head. Didn't mean that is was preferable.

Now an extreme situation like a drug den? May be all you have, though you still the law of unintended consequences.

Now in most situations that are brought up here like outdoor seating and bar hours zoning is an inappropriate way to regulate behavior. But so often it's the first resort rather than a last.

Comment by goldfish

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 14:21:00 EDT

Alex B: Zoning can and should be modified as the situation changes; it has never intended to be immutable.

When faced with this kind of potentially fatal problem, every legal tool should be made available to fight it, and probably more need to be invented -- including zoning. Regarding the current area, I think we are lucky that it was close to a frontier of improvement that overcame it. In lots of other neighborhoods not so close to where well-to-do people live, such a place would dragged a whole area down.

Comment by Alex B.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 14:05:44 EDT

Yes, the crack epidemic was a huge problem, and many of the vestiges of that epidemic remain.

Zoning is not the solution to that problem. It never was. It is not even a solution to the symptoms at hand.

Nonetheless, the New Dragon is gone. Thus, that shouldn't be used as a reason to re-zone, yes? Likewise, the fact that the New Dragon is gone without changing the zoning suggests that doing so would not have solved the problem, yes?

Comment by goldfish

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:57:16 EDT

Short of the urban renewal schemes of just bulldozing everything, I don't know what else could be more harmful.

Hmm, since that is exactly the direction things were heading, a zoning change may have helped. I keep on thinking about cancer and the surgery to remove it: you cut out the cancer and get the nearby tissue that may have been contaminated; otherwise the patient dies. I am sure you are aware of the good neighborhoods and vast tracts that were turned into vacant lots by drugs and crime. When the nearby residents that are law-abiding good people feel endangered and their efforts to fix this are frustrated, they move out and the area is completely turned over to drug dealers.

Yes zoning changes grandfather in the existing businesses, but at least in that situation when the owner of a Lucky Dragon-type front is finally chased away or is killed, the platform is lost and the dealers have to move on. Come to think of it, I wonder if that is the reason these zoning rules prohibiting corner stores were put in place to begin with.

Regarding drug and crack houses: basically this leads to razing, unless something can be done to evict and keep these people away. Again, a corrupt or neglectful owner is not an easy thing to deal with.

Comment by Alex B.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:23:57 EDT

I very much doubt that changing the zoning would chase away a business like the New Dragon. You change the zoning and existing uses are grandfathered in to the law.

We see this right now with the zoning update, where we want to now allow corner stores in places like Capitol Hill. The Hill still has some corner stores that have been grandfathered in to the law since the original zoning code outlawed them in 1958. Fifty four years later, they're still here.

I don't doubt the neighbors felt like the had to 'do something,' but that doesn't mean that any action they take will actually work to solve e problem.

Zoning is a limited tool. If you cannot understand the limits of that tool, you will at best not accomplish your goal. At worst, you will actively harm an otherwise robust urban, mixed use environment. It is the urban policy equivalent of bloodletting.

Short of the urban renewal schemes of just bulldozing everything, I don't know what else could be more harmful.

Comment by drumz

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:51:26 EDT

Goldfish,

And then what? Some empty storefronts that may have eventually been torn down and turned into houses? Vacant buildings may have been preferable but it certainly isn't a quality replacement. So like Alex said, changing the zoning may have stopped that instance but didn't actually do anything to solve the problem on either end.

What could have been done if it was simply a house?

Comment by goldfish

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:47:46 EDT

Alex B: I get the distinct feeling that you were not walking by these threatening, ugly characters very often. A daily encounter will quickly change one's view of what is expedient.

Remember that 12 years ago, these business were not the inviting, beautific yuppy places that are there today; they were run-down, laden with trash and surrounded with rusted chain link fences. This is far away from the major arteries, and these places were never going to amount to the serviceable and welcoming row of shops that existed on 8th St. (that has since become tony).

So on top of these problems there were the ne'er-do-wells hanging out, selling drugs and generally making this area uninhabitable, directly across the street from an elementary school. Let me repeat: uninhabitable. It had been this way for years. Given the situation, a zoning change probably was the only way to chase these guys out.

Comment by Alex B.

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 11:14:25 EDT

Changing the zoning is not a drastic measure, it is an unrelated measure. Yes, the New Dragon was a problem, but changing the zoning addresses neither the symptoms of the problem nor the root cause.

Comment by Hill East Rez

Sun, 30 Dec 2012 14:54:08 EDT

I'm a relatively new resident to the Hill East neighborhood, so I can't speak to the problems associated with New Dragon, but I was a huge fan of Crepes on the Corner. While it was a bit pricey, I really appreciated having a place nearby to sit down for a light meal or coffee or grab a few quality grocery items. Based on its apparent popularity, I wasn't alone. Its really too bad that it closed (anyone know why?), but I am hopeful that something else will come in to replace it.

Thanks for covering this issue. I am also hopeful about the new zoning provision allowing for corner stores in residential neighborhoods- I think it would be a real benefit to many neighborhoods. I realize that people are concerned about attracting crime, but I agree with MLD that in many cases rezoning isn't the best option.

Comment by ET

Sun, 30 Dec 2012 14:33:06 EDT

The fact is that area of 15th is NEVER going to be a "retail hub" - there just aren't enough people out and about - particularly during the week. Business need people beyond just Saturday and Sunday to succeed.

I grew up in New Orleans which seems to have more "odd" location business that become go-to places so I liked having a sit down, low key place to eat like the Crepes on the Corner. Obviously how a business is run and how it interacts with the community plays a large part in whether or not is one of those acceptable businesses.

It seems to me that changing the zoning when there are few things that are really affected may be cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Comment by goldfish

Sat, 29 Dec 2012 16:50:02 EDT

@MLD: There are other ways to shut these places down.

I was not involved with this; but I think your assessment of the situation is glib. The guys hanging out here were making good money, armed, lawyered, and not so easily chased away. Drastic measures were called for.

Comment by Tim Krepp

Sat, 29 Dec 2012 11:22:57 EDT

I lived here in the days of New Dragon as well. I wasn't, and still am not, comfortable with the idea that focusing on New Dragon was the answer to the endemic drug/violence problem on that corner. But goldfish isn't necessarily wrong. As we move forward to welcoming retail and corner stores, and I hope we do, we should remember that there was a time in very recent memory that this commercial corridor was unsafe and examine the reasons why.

Personally, I think New Dragon was more a symptom of chronic neighborhood issues of unemployed men hanging out, using drugs, and shooting each other (and once a police officer). We had a similar issue on 17th and Independence but no one advocated getting rid of the house they all hung out at.

Comment by MLD

Sat, 29 Dec 2012 11:09:32 EDT

@goldfish

It's a tradeoff. Zoning is an extremely long-term and blunt instrument. Using it to shut down a nuisance business can have long-term effects on the vitality of the area. There are other ways to shut these places down. The other point is that attitudes have changed - people see the value to these smaller commercial areas and so we should try to preserve them while getting rid of obvious nuisances.

Comment by goldfish

Sat, 29 Dec 2012 01:36:04 EDT

Mr Alpert: you are reporting only half of the story. That New Dragon "restaurant" was never a place to eat; it was a well-known drug front that took the neighbors about ten years to close. If *I* knew you could buy crack cocaine there, its real purpose was not a secret.

You did not describe, and thus discount, the huge effort to get this place closed. Nearby residents had to do everything they could, including getting a zoning change. The place was a cancer that affected the street life and property values for many blocks. In particular it put a damper on parents letting their children play a block away at Payne.

Comment by Nicoli

Wed, 26 Dec 2012 19:31:32 EDT

Good to see more commercial in Hill East, but I'd expect the area immediately around Potomac Ave metro to build out a little more first. There are still a few vacant or underutilized lots adjacent to Pennsylvania Ave SE.

Comment by Ms. D

Wed, 26 Dec 2012 18:08:23 EDT

Whew. That wasn't the first time I had seen the 7 PM closing bouncing around, and store hours like that are basically useless outside of weekends, when I have the time to trek over to a larger store. The corner stores around my former home on the Hill were open until between 9 and 10 PM, and that was perfect when you've worked a long day and just want a frozen pizza (or a pint of Ben & Jerry's...depends on just how bad the day was) and some sleep.

Comment by David Alpert

Wed, 26 Dec 2012 17:47:23 EDT

Oops, the proposal is that corner stores in residential zones can be open from 7 am-10 pm, not 10 am-7 pm as I originally posted. Sorry for the error; I've corrected the text.

Comment by Ben Ross

Wed, 26 Dec 2012 16:38:47 EDT

The 7:00 closing seems especially unsuited for Capitol Hill, where it's certainly not rare for staff to work past 7:00.

Comment by Dan Miller

Wed, 26 Dec 2012 16:04:41 EDT

Are the proposed hours definitely 10AM-7PM? I thought they had been expanded past that. If not, it's a missed opportunity--I'd imagine being open until 10PM would be much better in terms of capturing after-work traffic.

Comment by MLD

Wed, 26 Dec 2012 16:00:48 EDT

Gotta love the comments on Brian Flahaven's blog. Only in DC would someone describe a 5-story building as a "tower."

Glad to see that people seem to be in favor of keeping it commercial. It's just C-2-A, almost the lowest-density commercial zoning you can do in DC! Seems like this strip could grow into what 11th st NW is becoming up in Columbia Heights - some restaurants and other cool shops.

Comment by drumz

Wed, 26 Dec 2012 15:04:01 EDT

More evidence on how zoning is used to do things it's not meant to do. In the china king example, how could have zoning prevented unsavory characters (in someone's view) from hanging out at a residence? If someone is breaking a law then call the police. Don't involved the planning dept. in your dispute with people you don't like otherwise you're infringing on people's ability to make a living for themselves in the future because of your dispute today. I'm glad some neighbors realized this before it was too late.

Comment by Scott Roberts

Wed, 26 Dec 2012 14:37:13 EDT

Thankfully, the Big Bear Cafe upzoning fight from R-4 to C-2-A is over. The Big Bear property achieved it pursued zoning change up to C-2-A.