Comments on H Street streetcar is still on target for 2013, says DDOT - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by kk

Tue, 05 Feb 2013 19:37:05 EDT

@ Bob M

H Street is out of the view of what Washington landmarks?

I'm quite sure some can be seen from H Street and you can see H Street from some.

Comment by Tom M

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 11:16:29 EDT

Streetcars -- For Those Who Cannot ABIDE Buses... My new slogan offering IF there is ever an operating line to hang a slogan on...

Comment by MetroDerp

Fri, 01 Feb 2013 09:42:16 EDT

So the tracks still just terminate at the bridge behind Union Station, right? What's the deal with that? Isn't installing a crossover or turnaround or whatever kind of a big deal that obviously won't be done in 2013 or even 2014?

Comment by Bumsley

Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:43:14 EDT

Just a note of history here. Klein inherited both the streetcar projects from Dan Tangherlini and the 2 interim Directors. To my knowledge, without Klein these projects never would be where they are today and were completely umplanned. Also, He left 2 years ago, so hard to blame the prior administration when they are not running the show.

Comment by Streetcar

Thu, 31 Jan 2013 15:08:51 EDT

Andrew, I am no gray fan but the street cars are more than 4 years late. Gray has been mayor for 2.

Klein bungled this...he bungled it bad.

Comment by MLD

Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:38:27 EDT

That law was enacted in the 1890s and to my knowledge it has not been rescinded.

Several years ago the Council passed an exception specifically for the H Street project.

Comment by andy2

Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:27:13 EDT

If this is a priority it can get done. Heads should roll over these endless delays.
Mayor Gray - Get this done! We have a surplus - time to use some of it to finish this. You get this done - you may just win re-election - have it stall any longer - you might not.

Comment by Bob M

Thu, 31 Jan 2013 12:19:37 EDT

By the time those trolleys go into service they may be ready for their first major overhaul. < g >

There is a basic problem with the H Street line. At 15th and H the original Benning Road trolleys (Routes 10 and 12 for Kenilworth and Seat Pleasant) changed from overhead wire to underground conduit. This was due to a Federal law that forbid overhead wires within the center of the city. That law was enacted in the 1890s and to my knowledge it has not been rescinded.

H Street is well out of the view of Washington landmarks so the line might get by with overhead wire. Once it reaches Union Station that is another story. That could be interesting because the desired route is to use the H Street underpass, which the Benning cars once used, to reach a transit terminal under Union Station. There is a passageway linking it to the Metro station and it would be convenient to the inter-city bus station. Unfortunately, Amtrak does not want the trolleys to use the underpass. It worked until 1949. It is unfortunate it cannot work today.

How the trolleys will get their power in downtown is a big problem. Conduit is very expensive and not really practical. Stud contacts can work but as with conduit, snow and ice would make it unreliable. There is news of a technology with coils buried in the street that are energized as the car passes over them. A pick-up coil on the car gathers electricity to power the car.

In case you ever wondered why Kenilworth Avenue (DC-295) is so narrow and treacherous, it used to the right of way of the Benning Line. There was also a freight operation that switched coal for Pepco. The Kenilworth cars continued to the District Line. The Seat Pleasant cars turned off at Deane Avenue (now Nannie Helene Burroughs Avenue). Along the way to Seat Pleasant was the Suburban Gardens amusement park.

Comment by andrew

Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:36:30 EDT

Is there even a definitive answer as to how these things will be powered?

Overhead catenary. That much is definite at this point.

That said, I'm also a bit miffed that we just bought all new street furniture for H Street, knowing full well that we'd need to replace the lamp posts with different models that could hold the wires.

I'm not sure I want to hold Fenty/Klein for mismanagement. The project was progressing nicely along before Gray was elected, at which point any planning or construction came to a screeching halt.

Comment by oboe

Thu, 31 Jan 2013 09:14:37 EDT

If nothing else, the streetcar project has shown why it's difficult to get anything done in the District. "Overhead wires are an abomination!" "This housing project is a protected historic site!" Meanwhile, the last thing we have to worry about is that the streetcars are "obsolete". Aren't there trollies from early last century still operating around the country?

Comment by Kolohe

Thu, 31 Jan 2013 07:37:28 EDT

"The point of testing is to make sure there are no unanticipated problems. If there aren't any then there won't be a delay. Since no one can anticipate an unanticipated problem, no one knows if there will be a delay."

If they're not building testing 'failures' into the schedule, that's gross mismanagement.

Nothing works completely right the first time.

Nothing.

Comment by pat b

Thu, 31 Jan 2013 03:12:14 EDT

lst i heard the decision was made for an overhead catenary everywhere except at the Maryland crossing. The cars need some modification to add some
battery to make it across the intersection.

Installing the catenary will be quick, the cable and transformer is being added underground the towers will go up quick as the sockets for them are ready.

the car barn is a mess, i think it's a bad idea to ruin the only greenfield on Benning witha car barn. Far better to put it out at the old transfer station.

Comment by Frustrating

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 21:25:39 EDT

I know that Gabe Klein is something of a folk hero on this site, but let's admit the obvious. This project was poorly planned and has been even more poorly executed. There is no way that the barn is ready by the end of the year. What do they plan to do? Have the streetcars just sit there on the tracks all night long? Is there even a definitive answer as to how these things will be powered?

2016 at the earliest

Comment by Phil

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:51:52 EDT

Seriously, there's not even catenary…ugh, I want DC to have a comprehensive and robust streetcar system to complement Metro and open up doors (pun intended) for new development across the District, but this is just ridiculous.

Comment by ceefer66

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:45:12 EDT

Considering the haphazard way the DC streetcar project has progressed, one could easily assume that the extent of planning was limited to someone showing up at work one morning and saying "Hey, guys, the mayor and I think it would be really cool if DC had streetcars. Let's get to work!".

Downright ridiculous.

BTW, I support the streetcars. But the progress on the project has been a joke to the point that the only reason to finish it is so DC doesn't come looking even sillier than it already does.

Comment by ceefer66

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:39:14 EDT

I'll believe it when I see it.

Let's just hope the rolling stock that's been sitting on ice for the last 5 years isn't obsolete by the time they finally wake up one morning and discover that they've actually finished the project.

Comment by sadlycynical

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 20:08:52 EDT

In other news, nobody knows nothing.

Comment by Ballston Guy

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:09:04 EDT

Oh, jeez...so you start operating them in December of 2013, not January 2014, Man, you were right, it isn't delayed till 2014! Considering this think is 4 years late as it is, I find it pretty asinine to try to claim DDOT awesomeness because they managed to beat the calendar by a month on a project thats 4 years late.

it sounds to me like the author is basically saying the same thing, but about the sensationalist NBC headline. it isn't that ddot is so awesome, it's that a big headline about how the streetcars are going to be delayed to 2014 isn't really a fair representation of the possible delay.

Comment by Cavan

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:26:57 EDT

Clark, the streetcar would be known unknowns. The engineers know about possible unforeseen problems. Unknown unknowns would be stuff that no one anticipates because it's outside of engineering experience.

Comment by DCr

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:15:43 EDT

Jeez...talk about trying to skin seconds from a week.

Oh, jeez...so you start operating them in December of 2013, not January 2014, Man, you were right, it isn't delayed till 2014!

Considering this think is 4 years late as it is, I find it pretty asinine to try to claim DDOT awesomeness because they managed to beat the calendar by a month on a project thats 4 years late.

Comment by Yo' Momma

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:42:48 EDT

Dis [deleted] ain't never gonna happen. Bet.

Comment by Ben

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:27:30 EDT

@MLD:

As per this article, DDOT is paying WMATA to store the streetcars: http://washingtonexaminer.com/costs-for-storing-d.c.-streetcars-rise-as-delays-continue/article/151507 .

Comment by MLD

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:20:18 EDT

The streetcars are not in the Czech Republic, they are sitting in WMATA's Greenbelt yard. No clue if WMATA is charging DDOT for that privilege but we have not been spending $860K per year storing the cars.

I thought you could see the streetcars on google maps but I can't seem to find them.

Comment by drumz

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:16:09 EDT

I'm just saying that was the rationale for buying so early. I can't comment to the wisdom of it at all.

Comment by Tom A.

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:12:33 EDT

2013?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha etc.

Comment by Ben

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:10:18 EDT

@drumz:

Possibly, but there have been several other street-car and light rail openings since 2009 that DDOT could have bundled their purchases with.

Comment by drumz

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 15:04:47 EDT

I'd have to find the confirmation but I remember reading that the reason they bought the cars when they did was Portland was buying cars for their line and it was cheaper to bundle the purchase with Portland's.

Jasper,
Again I'd have to check but I remember a story on here where the mayor switched the opening of the two lines.

Comment by Jasper

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:55:31 EDT

I thought the short line in Anacostia was the first to open?

Comment by Ben

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:49:44 EDT

The streetcars have been in storage since 2009 at $860,000 per year. This is $4.3M to store these vehicles until they begin operation, to say nothing of the technology improvements for the streetcars in a half-decade. $4.3M is a lot of new Circulator routes, teachers, or affordable housing the District could have provided.

http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/blogs/citydesk/2009/04/02/nearly-1-million-for-streetcar-storage/

Comment by Ron

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:47:33 EDT

With the lack of maintenance and electrification facilities, I have an extremely hard time seeing this streetcar line operating any time soon. Realistically, I think it's probably at least a few years off.

Comment by Ben

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:42:37 EDT

I support this investment in the streetcars but how many years have they sat in storage while we wait for DDOT to complete this? 3 years? 4 years?

Comment by Clark

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:39:21 EDT

Anticipating unanticipated problems...is that like not knowing unknown unknowns?

Comment by MLD

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:36:49 EDT

If there aren't any then there won't be a delay. Since no one can anticipate an unanticipated problem, no one knows if there will be a delay.

We've always been at war with Eastasia!

Comment by Kyle-W

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:24:54 EDT

If there aren't any then there won't be a delay. Since no one can anticipate an unanticipated problem, no one knows if there will be a delay.

This one made me chuckle a bit. Am I inclined to believe that the current mayor and council has given this process enough resources to ensure that there will be no major problems... No.

Comment by Alan B.

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:19:52 EDT

I'll believe it when I see it -- which I sincerely hope I do. I was briefly subletting by H and 3rd, or to paraphrase Shel Silverstein "Where the Streetcar Tracks End". When asked I've been saying "by 2014" since at least 2011 to hedge my bets.

What did they ever decide about Hopscotch Bridge by the way?

Comment by drumz

Wed, 30 Jan 2013 14:16:51 EDT

I hope the car barn gets built quickly, apologies to all those who are about the have the side-view of a high school ruined.

What does "temporarily" mean anyway in terms of a car barn-less opening? Weather? Reduced service?