Transit
Circulator thrombosis
Saturday afternoon, in the rain, Greater Greater Fiancée and I waited 31 minutes at 20th and K for a westbound Circulator. The Circulator advertises a bus every 10 minutes, all day. Three buses passed in the other direction while we waited. After 27 minutes, a bus in our direction zipped by without stopping. Another bus showed up four minutes later, but meanwhile we fumed at the Circulator and debated whether to wait for another.
Photo by DavidSC78.
Certainly, many of you have had similar experiences. We're not the first nor the last to suffer from bus bunching and unreliable schedules. Nevertheless, we shouldn't complacently tolerate this. We won't entice people to take the Circulator instead of driving to Georgetown if they have to stand around on K Street for 30 minutes to do so.
What can we do to make the Circulator experience greater?
- NextBus! Having a way to look up real-time bus arrival information would have eased the wait considerably, or at least told us to ditch the Circulator and take a cab. There's a phone number on the sign, but on weekends, all you can get from calling is recorded information about the Circulator or a message that their office is closed.
Unfortunately, NextBus won't work on the Circulator when it first launches. That means that by switching the N22 and 98 buses to Circulator service, we are keeping those routes off NextBus at least for now. DDOT should explore how to integrate Circulator locations into NextBus as soon as possible.
- Consolidate the stops. The Circulator stops on K Street. Meanwhile, the 30s buses were running at the same time on I Street, one block away. All of these buses should run on one street and stop in the same places. If we build the K Street Transitway, the street will be better able to handle the large volume of buses and help them all move quickly along the corridor.
Meanwhile, if well-designed, NextBus could also help with this situation. by letting riders know about parallel routes. In my case, it could have suggested walking one block and waiting for a different line. If Metro allowed riders to keep using the unofficial system, we could discover or experiment with use cases such as these and suggest improvements before it's too late.
- Fix the bunching. Metro has announced plans to enable supervisors to dynamically fix bunching problems on bus lines. What is DDOT doing about that on the Circulator?
- Improve the signs. There's a Metrobus map on the bus shelter at 20th and K. Unfortunately, it says nothing about the Circulator whatsoever. This is another silly consequence of having bus systems operated by different agencies.
As we waited, a pair of tourists waited even more impatiently. After 25 minutes, we discovered that they weren't even going to Georgetown. They were going to the World War II memorial, and thought that the Circulator would take them to the Mall. There's another Circulator that does circulate on the Mall. In the 25 minutes they waited, they could have taken the Metro, an 80 bus (one of which did pass by), or a taxi.
The Circulator is supposed to help people travel east-west and north-south along downtown's major axes smoothly and easily. Today, though, outside peak times buses often don't show up, and during peak times they crawl in traffic. We have to do better.
 | David Alpert is the Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Greater Greater Washington and Greater Greater Education. He worked as a Product Manager for Google for six years and has lived in the Boston, San Francisco, and New York metro areas in addition to Washington, DC. He loves the area which is, in many ways, greater than those others, and wants to see it become even greater.   |
Comments
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by Jazzy on Mar 16, 2009 10:22 am • link • report
by Erik on Mar 16, 2009 10:31 am • link • report
The bus driver in my bus was looking at a paper schedule he had in his hand. Might have been better if he were talking to someone on his radio to say hold up for two minutes or something.
That's basically how you solve bus bunching, right? Hold up the last bus and the front bus refuses to pick up passengers unless they're dropping off?
by Michael Perkins on Mar 16, 2009 10:34 am • link • report
by Caro on Mar 16, 2009 10:36 am • link • report
Regarding the Circulator, I don't know what it is, if they are physically incapable of going over 10 MPH, but it is awful. I have never heard of bunching occurring with them though. That was news to me.
by Jazzy on Mar 16, 2009 10:41 am • link • report
This could be good news for those who take the 98 from Woodley Park, as there was some question as to whether it would continue onto the Metro station or not.
Of course DDot's lack of information regarding the new bus route is rather disconcerting, as the 98 is going to stop in 2 weeks.
by Matthew on Mar 16, 2009 10:53 am • link • report
Is it bad scheduling? Are the drivers just giving themselves some time off? Is there a valid reason for it? It happens on multiple routes, and it can be quite maddening.
by Daniel on Mar 16, 2009 10:53 am • link • report
I can't count the number of times people get on the bus and ask "do you go to..." Can't these people read a bus schedule and plan their trip?
by rdhd on Mar 16, 2009 11:06 am • link • report
by anonymous on Mar 16, 2009 11:07 am • link • report
People shouldn't have to do 20 minutes of Web research to find out how to get from point A to point B. On Metrorail, you don't have to. You just go down the escalator, look at the map, and figure out which train to take. Riding a bus needs to be similarly easy.
The WMATA bus schedules are very hard to use as PDFs. They are hard to pull up on the site. You have to know which route you want. And then, they're laid out in a way that's difficult to read on the computer.
At the stops, when there's a schedule at all, it doesn't include the "stem and leaf" timetables which many cities use. Those let you walk up to a stop and find out when the next bus is at least scheduled to show up. At Metrobus stops, if a timetable is there, you have to interpolate between the nearby stops. And that assumes you know enough about the route to know which major stops are nearest you. Even for me, someone pretty experienced with our geography and our bus network, it still takes a lot of time to figure that out while standing in the cold at a stop.
by David Alpert on Mar 16, 2009 11:15 am • link • report
by Bianchi on Mar 16, 2009 11:23 am • link • report
by Bianchi on Mar 16, 2009 11:27 am • link • report
As for the K Street Transitway, which is rearing its ugly head on account of federal stimulus cash, why do we really think that's going to get buses running on time again?
by John Mitchell on Mar 16, 2009 11:30 am • link • report
Why did they change the route? Going under Washington Circle is soooo much faster than turning against traffic and onto Pennsylvania Ave. Why does it even do that? There are buses from Foggy Bottom to Georgetown!
by Alex on Mar 16, 2009 12:04 pm • link • report
This is the new route, per the Washington Business Journal. Still no info from DDot.
by Matthew on Mar 16, 2009 12:05 pm • link • report
Hell just install NextBus transponders on the buses and have Nextbus page the bunching drivers when the system notices buses getting too close together.
by geekie on Mar 16, 2009 12:08 pm • link • report
...
Theoretically, you could add more operational overhead - i.e. slow the whole schedule down, so its possible for drivers to make up lost time. You'd also have to insist that if busses are running ahead of schedule they slow down. But those are very unlikely solutions, especially given the congestion on the Circulator routes and patron unhappiness when a bus "just sits there".
by Ethan on Mar 16, 2009 12:32 pm • link • report
Back to DC and its bunching problems: Certain routes just shouldn't be served by buses. There is too much traffic and uncertainty. Why run a bus into dreadful unpredictable traffic? Or if you do, customers have to know that it will be just as inconvenient riding a bus as taking a car and sitting in traffic. Those routes would need a dedicated lane, timed lights, special bus right of way, or something to justify cramming buses into them.
by Ward 1 Guy on Mar 16, 2009 12:58 pm • link • report
by Bianchi on Mar 16, 2009 1:12 pm • link • report
10 days ago I saw a bus (not circulator) tootling along K Street flashing a Call 911 sign front and back. Called 911, watched the bus proceed snail's pace thru traffic for another 8 minutes, no reaction to my call in sight. What gives?
by Lou DC on Mar 16, 2009 1:33 pm • link • report
Also, Lou DC -- back in my bus driving days I twice hit the 911 button on accident. On Gillig Phantoms it wasn't too tough to hit the button with your knee or keychain. Not surprisingly, there's no notification inside the bus that you have it on (it would tip off the terrorists!) so my only indication was getting pulled over by the sheriff. Fun times.
by dino on Mar 16, 2009 1:42 pm • link • report
by spookiness on Mar 16, 2009 1:48 pm • link • report
I've been on a bus that stopped for a minute or two because it was ahead of schedule. I have to say there weren't that many eyes rolled. Most people didn't seem to care that much. It helped that the driver announced what he was doing, why and how long the wait would be. Granted that was not a "touristy" busline like the Circulator, but it's amazing how much more patient people are when they're given a clear explanation of the why they're waiting and an estimate of the delay.
by Reid on Mar 16, 2009 1:49 pm • link • report
Wasn't there some walk or run downtown on Saturday? Events like that screw up everything.
I dunno about Saturday. There was a run and a parade on Sunday, and Circulator service was mildly screwed up then too -- I waited 15 minutes for a north-south (Convention Center-Waterfront) bus.
by cminus on Mar 16, 2009 2:33 pm • link • report
well, sometimes it's not so clear - especially if the bus route isn't labeled (as often happens), or if you're taking one of the odd bifurcated routes (the S2 comes to mind) and unfamiliar with the geography.
by AJ on Mar 16, 2009 3:00 pm • link • report
The Circulator stops on K Street. Meanwhile, the 30s buses were running at the same time on I Street, one block away. All of these buses should run on one street and stop in the same places. If we build the K Street Transitway, the street will be better able to handle the large volume of buses and help them all move quickly along the corridor.
Sorry.
Why not just put all the bus routes in the city on one street? Then you'll never have to worry about catching a bus. Oh, but you'll have to go miles to get to the street to get to the bus.
Likely the trip characteristics of travelers on PA Ave. are significantly different than those involved in trips on K Street.
Don't get caught up in order and rationalization theories that are disconnected from real-life trip behavior.
Deal with the problems of the Circulator. Don't come up with "solutions" that aren't solutions for the Circulator, but idealized viewpoints disconnected from reality.
by Richard Layman on Mar 16, 2009 4:07 pm • link • report
I've argued, and still believe, that we should run more frequent service on fewer streets. Obviously, it shouldn't all buses on one street. But when buses are only two blocks apart, we should indeed try to rationalize them. Others have argued putting all westbound buses from Dupont to Georgetown on P and all eastbound ones on Q.
If you don't think so, I encourage you to explain why instead of just asserting that "trip characteristics are different" and calling it stupid. How is this "disconnected from reality" other than just that you don't agree? From my observations of reality, the system is excessively confusing and unpleasant for riders. I think that's very connected to reality.
by David Alpert on Mar 16, 2009 4:15 pm • link • report
If the tourists were led astray by the hotel, well, that's a shame. Doesn't take away their responsibility to plan a bit. I've taken public transport in Barcelona, Paris, and Brussels and made my plans ahead of time so I knew where I was going.
And my experience with confused riders is exclusively on fixed routes. NextBus, the Google thing, these are all great. But if people are too lazy to use them...
by rdhd on Mar 16, 2009 4:24 pm • link • report
by Juanita on Mar 16, 2009 4:47 pm • link • report
When i went to Europe for the first time I was quite savvy with the excellent transit in all the countries i visited without knowing the language simply because i'd lived car-free in Chicago for 4 years and knew how to use transit.
Cut the tourists a break. If their experience is excellent and worry-free here they are more likely to support transit projects back home. If they have problems in a big and supposedly transit-rich city like DC they may be less likely to support expansion.
by Bianchi on Mar 16, 2009 4:48 pm • link • report
How is the schedule hard to read I find it quite easy; there have to be over 100 stops one the bus routes you expect them to actually take all the time to figure out when some people could just figure out how to use the schedule. I understand the places where there are schedules and no maps but if there is a map it doesn't a rocket scientist to figure it out unless your just a complete retard in geography. If WMATA did switch over and listed the times the buses get to every stop with a schedule in the city it wouldn't be done until like 2012 or 13.
The WMATA site in general is poor design you have to go through 3 or 4 pages at the minimal to find things besides the fare, and a metrorail map. That sites is all most never updated expect for the recent site redesign and the homepage. The bus maps still have all the former 30 routes on them, the fare page still list paper transfer for somethings. On the Schedules page the could do away with that damn search box and just list the bloody schedules and maybe separate them by color instead of all the extra bs you have to go through to find a schedule.
It probably took someone less than a day to redo the site.
by kk on Mar 16, 2009 5:02 pm • link • report
I rarely treat the bus system the same way. I try to highlight things about Washington visitors will enjoy and be impressed by. But, to put it diplomatically, our bus system just isn't that. I'm happy to take small groups on personally, but I just couldn't see advising a visitor to trust it when I don't myself.
by Tim K on Mar 16, 2009 5:03 pm • link • report
by j on Mar 16, 2009 6:05 pm • link • report
The issue isn't necessarily where the buses run between 13th and 20th Streets downtown, but where the lines run elsewhere. You seem overly focused on what might be considered "transit malls" -- K Street, I Street, and Pennsylvania Ave., but these transit malls function this way for only a very small portion of the entire route of each respective route -- when I think it makes more sense to focus on the overall bus and transit network, and consider routes within that context.
Clearly the problem with the Circulator route has to do with the frequency, the bottlenecks throughout the route, and other issues probably. In all likelihood it doesn't have anything to do with other bus routes that are nearby, adjacent, or on the same street. Moving the bus over many blocks won't necessarily fix it.
Now if you are suggesting that because of the congestion on K Street, then say so. But even then, despite the congestion, it might not make sense. I don't know where you intended to go so I don't know what I would have recommended. Sadly, if you can take the subway, generally it's the most reliable way to get places...
I don't ride that specific bus very much, so I don't have much insight into specifics. Were I to spend some time observing the route, I could probably provide the insights necessary.
People are free to call things I write stupid, if, in fact, they are. In order to not give grounds to people to call what I write stupid, I endeavor to write only intelligent things. Anyway, I don't subscribe to the viewpoint that you can only criticize things if you have an alternative to offer. Good criticism (not that this was necessarily) is good in and of itself. Not all critics have the answers. Not all people with solutions are good at writing about the original problem. Etc.
What I should have said is that you overly focus on miniscule portions of routes, in the Downtown area, on portions that function like transit malls, and solutions proferred to solve issues of a few blocks duration might overly impact in negative ways, the rest of the route and may not serve regular riders very well and that therefore you should think about the route specifics far more deeply, and then offer solutions in response.
by Richard Layman on Mar 16, 2009 6:28 pm • link • report
One doesn't have to have specific solutions in response to a criticism, but one has to at least be able to explain what the criticism is instead of just throwing around terms of art in vague ways. By saying "you focus overly on one segment of the route", that doesn't mean anything to me. Maybe I do, maybe I don't. It doesn't tell me where the reasoning went wrong, if it did. I could focus overly on one thing and still have the right conclusion. Maybe I am doing a lot of focusing that you aren't aware of. Your critique doesn't give me a way to evaluate my proposal in its light and make it better.
I am specifically advocating condensing routes downtown for two reasons:
1) It's very difficult to know where to go to ride a bus anywhere that's not your daily commute. Do you know, off the top of your head, which number bus goes from Gallery Place to Logan Circle? If you were at Gallery Place, would you know where to stand to get that bus? Does it run up 7th and then over? Over on E, F, or H?
In Manhattan, because it's such a regular grid, it's easy. If you're on 9th Avenue, you want to go uptown, you can just stand on 9th and wait for a bus to show up. That bus is most likely going to another place on 9th you might want to go, or somewhere nearby. If you want to go downtown, walk to 8th or 10th. Crosstown routes run on all the major crosstown streets with subway stops. If you dropped someone reasonably familiar with NYC geography in Manhattan and asked them to find a bus somewhere else, chances are they could.
In DC, that's totally impossible. The bus map downtown is a tangled mess that makes no sense. Therefore, nobody can get a general grasp of it and understand how to navigate it by looking at it.
2) There are too many buses from near point A to near point B near the downtown area. Say you want to go from 19th and Pennsylvania to Dupont Circle. Do you walk to 19th and Penn for the S1? What hours is the S1, again? 19th and I for whichever 30s bus now bypasses Georgetown (and why isn't that on the bus map, still)? 19th and K for the D buses or the L2? 17th and H for the 42? 18th and I for the Ns?
I'd like to see "transit malls" that are very speedy for buses along these major corridors, and more of the routes go there. Then, a sign can say, something like "To Dupont: wait at the corner of 18th and I" and all the buses stop there that currently stop within a block of that corner. If we design that corner (or whatever corner(s) we pick) to maximize bus efficiency, we can make it easier for people to figure out where to go.
For the people at the edges of the network, who ride the same bus all the time, it might be a block over, but that'll probably benefit as many people as it hurts. For people who live in the center of the network, having more frequency on the same routes will make their lives easier.
I don't see how this is overly focusing on one part of the network. It doesn't affect the rest of it. As long as we make the trip through downtown as fast or faster, then we can leave the outer branches mostly as they are. Regular riders will be in the same position as they are now, except a few might walk an extra block and a few might walk a block fewer.
by David Alpert on Mar 16, 2009 7:01 pm • link • report
by Lou DC on Mar 16, 2009 7:30 pm • link • report
by Rich on Mar 16, 2009 8:06 pm • link • report
1) It's very difficult to know where to go to ride a bus anywhere that's not your daily commute.
David,
This to me is a very bad reason to condense a route! All you have to do isfind out the route you are wanting and then take it!
Am I misreading? Are you saying that because there's a route somewhere that will take you where you need to go, but you don't know it right now or you can't find out in 4.2 seconds, that therefore we condense a route? And the people who currently use that route be damned?!
Just find out (either ask another resident, or look online, or call Metro, or call the city council) and then take the route. Write it down or put it in your blackberry.
As a RAC representative, might I please suggest you ride the bus everyday??
by Jazzy on Mar 16, 2009 8:08 pm • link • report
Using the bus system shouldn't necessitate knowing everything you're going to do hours ahead and having a computer.
I'm not saying get rid of the route. The people who already use the route can either walk one block more or one block fewer. A lot of those people will benefit from more frequent service.
by David Alpert on Mar 16, 2009 8:21 pm • link • report
Yes, ask someone! Don't people ask you questions all the time on the street, like directions and stuff? At any rate, the problem would be solved if the map on the bus stop was bigger and readable, and two, the schedule (also bigger and readable) reflected reality. In other words (broken record): if the buses were far more reliable than they currently are.
THAT should be where the energy is put. Afterall, not fixing that and (shiver) implementing your solution will not improve things all that much, I imagine, from your perspective.
What I do if I'm standing on a corner somewhere and I want to take a bus, and asking someone has not worked, is I look for a bus stop and attempt to read the map. Or, if I see a bus coming, (and this is usually during the weekends) and ask the driver where it's going or which bus I need to take to get where I'm going.
Life is not as instantaneous as you would perhaps desire it to be.
by Jazzy on Mar 16, 2009 8:28 pm • link • report
by Jazzy on Mar 16, 2009 8:34 pm • link • report
My main complaint with bus service is the 90s buses along U Street/Florida Ave. First off, they all switch drivers around 5-6pm, right in the middle of rush hour. I'm sure there has to be a way to schedule drivers so that they're not idling in front of the Reeves Center for 10 minutes every day. Plus, I agree with Daniel about the "Out of Service" buses. I typically see 2 or 3 go by on Florida Ave for each "in service" bus.
Second, northbound traffic turning right off Florida onto Georgia Ave in the evenings is a mess and it absolutely screws the buses. While those folks making the left off of Georgia Ave get a left-hand-turn light, those making the right off Florida must wait for the throngs of pedestrians crossing the street and the pile-up of buses at the stop. Sometimes no vehicles are able to make the right-hand turn. The result is a backup the entire way down Florida which snarls traffic and creates, at times, a 30-minute wait for a westbound bus.
by Adam L on Mar 16, 2009 8:52 pm • link • report
It is true Lou, that most of the bus riding I do is point to point, and there aren't many other bus options available to me on those routes, where I might ride buses, other than the bus that is there (70s, 62/63, 83/86, G8, F1/2, 50s, S, X2, 90s). Mostly, I ride buses when I am carrying packages or am with my girlfriend. Otherwise, I tend to bicycle (or use the subway).
This discussion is scary because it is flying without identifying the biases and inferences. I don't think occasional riders should be the priority. Would bus ridership increase significantly through signficant changes in routes? I don't know. But I have to see some real bang up studies before I'd suggest changes along the lines offered here.
Is it that hard to read bus maps or schedules? Granted that WMATA could do a better job in getting the information out there...
Anyway, it is clear from this discussion that occasional bus riders have different interests from regular bus riders, as reflected in the data expressed in this Post graphic:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rllayman/78080272/in/photostream/
And Jazzy -- I too am a fan of the Ride Guide.
by Richard Layman on Mar 16, 2009 9:08 pm • link • report
Jazzy: GGF has tried to ride the bus every day. Unfortunately, every one of the approximately 10 routes that go from near her office to near our house comes too infrequently to be worthwhile. There's infrequent users, and then there are the many people who never ride the bus because the system is too difficult or headways too long.
Designing the system to work well for more people while not harming the people who already ride it isn't a goal worthy of such scorn as you two are heaping upon.
Besides, Jazzy, despite all your "shiver"s, you are just reacting to general statements instead of specific suggestions. You don't seem to have had any problem with the original post, and just got all shivery when I laid out some more general thoughts.
Specifically, what's wrong with putting the H and I lines onto K if we upgraded K to move buses faster? The 30s and others would move through downtown more quickly, and even travel closer to more office workers. Other than Richard's vague pronouncements that I am not considering the network holistically and Jazzy's arguments that I must not ride the bus enough and everyone ought to have a BlackBerry, I still have seen no concrete rebuttal as to why this is a bad idea.
by David Alpert on Mar 16, 2009 9:47 pm • link • report
by Jazzy on Mar 16, 2009 10:16 pm • link • report
I am ALL FOR improving the system, even for infrequent users. As I have (specifically) said: improve the reliability of the buses - we do this through next bus and by giving drivers the ability to push the light. AND, drivers need to be monitored better too. I think I have specifically specified these specific suggestions on more than one occasion.
Yes, I did react to your general statements, seeing as I have not been able to get from you a very good idea of your bus riding, and from your accounts, unless I am missing something, it is quite infrequent, and in my opinion, such a rider is not the best person to be, even in a blog, advocating such wholesale change.
What do I think about consolidating the bus stops that run on H Street, I Street, and K Street? Yeah, I'd have to think about it a lot more than I am, but off the top of my head, I'd say no. There are distinct advantages each of those lines have. For instance (I am HORRIBLE at numbers and remembering the line names), the bus/es that runs along I Street that goes into G'town has a pretty easy route getting there. Put it on K Street and you slow it down massively. Fewer people might take it as a result. K Street is a bloody nightmare, especially westbound. Similarly because H Street is one way, it has a slightly easier time of it than K Street.
There probably was some formula that the planners had in mind, something like put a bus stop here and people from up to X number of blocks away will come to take that bus. I mean, aren't you reducing the range from which to cull bus riders? That's the way it seems to me.
Finally, I would like to suggest that because you are such an infrequent user of buses, that you do not have a well-honed appreciation of the location of bus stops. The less time you spend walking to one in 15 degree weather, the nicer life can be.
And again, for the record I do not have a blackberry.
by Jazzy on Mar 16, 2009 10:45 pm • link • report
As for the idea of consolidating buses on K, is that not predicated on the idea of building the transitway there? Sure, K is a mess now, but wouldn't it be faster with dedicated lanes, signal priority, etc?
Also, I do have a blackberry, and it's fairly useless when trying to navigate Metro's bus schedules. Certainly not for the idea that David is getting at here - making the bus system easier to use, more intuitive, and better performing.
I would trade an extra one block walk for that in a heartbeat.
by Alex B. on Mar 17, 2009 12:23 am • link • report
I did.
And - this is getting old - as for the blackberry, I suggested noting a route in it (or writing it down).
I would trade an extra one block walk for that in a heartbeat.
But what if to get to your normal bus stop, you had to walk four blocks, and now they are moving the stop from H Street to K street, a move of more than one block, if I'm not mistaken, and say you are not in your 30s but in your 60s, or a parent with a young child. I think such a move would lose a number of riders. As for the transitway, that would change the equation somewhat. But, it's a huge if.
The way I read that paragraph of David's, two possibilities were proposed: one with the transitway, one without.
by Jazzy on Mar 17, 2009 6:23 am • link • report
Wasn't there just an article in the Post about how none of the Metro board members take Metro, that they get subsidized parking? And didn't a couple of people (maybe David himself, I don't remember) on this blog draw attention to that article?
It's so basic, I can't believe I am writing this.
by Jazzy on Mar 17, 2009 6:26 am • link • report
My experience (and it is pretty much every day) is a very small example in Georgetown (the D/G separation by one block for a length of six blocks.) I didn't identify it because that's not the point. Point is, it's common in spots all over the city when lines are looked at as isolated entities, not wholistically. Those who commute regularly would trade (worst case) walk one more block to get ten-minute instead of 20 minute headways. And those who don't ride wouldn't have to think so much (or check the computer only to find out that the bus just left while they were checking the computer) when they're in an all-fired hurry that tells them to hop in the car.
by Lou DC on Mar 17, 2009 6:51 am • link • report
The big problem I have is with big planning ideas -- in this case, creating the equivalent of a transit mall -- that seem to be disconnected from an in-depth consideration of the specifics of _this_ problem.
You ought to be careful, because this isn't the only suggestion/solution ("technology") that you seem to offer for every instance of something, in this case bus scheduling. (As Lou DC points out, looking at the entire system from a demand management perspective is the way that it should go.)
The real problem is the CIrculator in this case. Instead of fix that, you say, put all the buses on one street. But that fails to take into account that the street you suggest is far away from people, and would require a significant out of the way walk. Not to mention whether or not it truly addresses the problem.
Portland's blocks are 200x200, DC's are 270x270 (with some 2x or 3x this distance), which does make some difference. But there is also a light rail that goes perpindicular through the downtown, with a stop at the edge of the transit mall street (Pioneer Courthouse Square) for buses.
I haven't been to Denver, so I haven't experienced the 16th St. transit mall, but that likely would be a better idea, were a transit mall to make sense in DC (I don't know, I haven't thought it through). That has a free bus up and down the street--the equivalent of the Circulator, and most all the major bus routes cross it.
In other words, make the Circulator a connector route, linking to all the major bus lines criss-crossing the city, but coming through the center of the city, which is not what you suggest.
I don't know how I feel about the Nicollet transit mall in Minneapolis as an example. Remember that they don't have heavy rail and only one light rail line. I guess rather than push the line outside the central area, as you suggest, they take the equivalent of K Street and have made it an exclusive bus roadway. That makes the bus transit mall absolutely central and primary. Again, this is different from what you suggest.
My problem generally is that I am too much into theory to be fully happy in the here and now, and believe strongly in applying theory to practice, to make practice much better, when most people don't think theory is relevant.
But offering theory at the expense of evidence-based and theoretically-enriched practice is a mistake. Either that, or you are not fully drawing out the examples, so that we are not lining up behind the suggestion.
by Richard Layman on Mar 17, 2009 7:14 am • link • report
Then you have the dual-bus lanes...sort of an express bus transit spine...that Minneapolis is putting in on 2nd and Marquette Avenues (2 lanes on each street). Kinda like 9th St and 12th St NW, except that the Minneapolis streets don't have direct access to the freeway, so it might be closer to like an H/I St or L/M St combo.
Alex, your thoughts?
by Froggie on Mar 17, 2009 7:30 am • link • report
Yes, the K Street transitway would not be a transit mall at all. A transit mall removes all other auto traffic. This would not be the case on K, it would just be dedicated bus lanes.
Note that this is all semantics, too. If you put dedicated lanes one way on H and I and re-routed the Circulator down there, you could accomplish the same thing - ease of understanding, etc.
Jazzy, it's one thing to question the ridership habits of board members that don't use Metro at all. It's another to try and discredit someone's ideas who clearly does use the bus system. Even if David was a daily bus commuter, I get the feeling you'd attack him for not riding the right routes in the right part of town. And no, I don't feel you've addressed the substance of his proposals - not when your lead and conclusion statements are prefaced with a mention of how he can't understand because he doesn't ride the bus.
by Alex B. on Mar 17, 2009 8:03 am • link • report
No, not at all.
I questioned how much David rides the bus, and on Mar 16, 2009 9:47 pm, he said:
That does not mean that he himself doesn't ride the bus, but I just have not been able to get a good idea how much he does ride the bus. I think in previous discussions between us, he has said he would ride more often if the headways weren't too long. Again, doesn't mean he doesn't ride the bus.I get the feeling you won't stop with me until I agree with you.
by Jazzy on Mar 17, 2009 8:17 am • link • report
Running more buses will only help if there's a way to leap-frog the slow bus that causes the bunching - which you can't do with a high-demand route on constant-speed urban streets.
Best band-aid: "Rovers" - buses pre-positioned near the places on routes where bunching is worst. Those buses then come into service in the gaps. But that's expensive - you need a working bus sitting idle all day, with one or more emergency-drivers reading a book on the clock. I.e., you'd need extra system capacity (and funding) to use as your operational reserve, but most transit agencies are operating at (or beyond) their capacity/funding limits.
by Ethan on Mar 17, 2009 8:45 am • link • report
I mentioned this only as a way of thinking about the problem. I don't know Hennepin ave. I do know PA Ave. and K Street and how these streets function, where they are located, etc. Not that I would suggest a transit mall in DC--without auto traffic--because instead of having a need for a transit mall, the city has a subway system to provide high capacity movement (stations like Metro Center or Gallery Place function like Nicollet Mall or 16th Street in Denver, but underground) but if you're going to move all the buses to one street, and have maximum positive impact, it would make sense to do it to K Street and dump the cars. Not to PA Ave.
by Richard Layman on Mar 17, 2009 1:41 pm • link • report
You're saying this is the "equivalent of creating a transit mall." That's factually untrue - nobody in this thread has mentioned anything of the sort, except for you. Froggie and I were merely pointing out that the transit malls you cite in Minneapolis and Denver are not analogous to what's been proposed here in DC.
I don't understand what you're trying to get at, really.
by Alex B. on Mar 17, 2009 1:48 pm • link • report
by David Alpert on Mar 17, 2009 1:53 pm • link • report
by Froggie on Mar 17, 2009 2:33 pm • link • report
this is from the original entry:
Consolidate the stops. The Circulator stops on K Street. Meanwhile, the 30s buses were running at the same time on I Street, one block away. All of these buses should run on one street and stop in the same places
Granted I could have misread this. Maybe the 30s buses are supposed to move over to K Street. Or the Circulator to I Street, as is inferred from the entry... I happened to say PA Ave. But it's not a straw man argument since it was mentioned in the post, albeit without the same terminology.
In either case, I don't think that this kind of transit mall might makes sense in the DC context (plus I Street is one way). Were one to be created, if it makes sense, go whole hog and get rid of the cars.
Frankly doing so would be like some of the NY DOT things, similarly "pathbreaking". Although in the DC context, I am not sure it's necessary, given the existence of the subway and how the bus network operates.
by Richard Layman on Mar 17, 2009 5:13 pm • link • report
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