I believe it would be the wrong decision for GGW to expand at this point in time into a completely separate and extremely complex policy area such as education. The beauty of this blog is that it provides thorough and highly educated analyses of transportation and land use in the D.C. area. I fear that would inevitably suffer from introducing such a different and demanding focus as education policy. Furthermore, that material would appeal to a different audience and could either drive current readers away or confuse those who are not yet regular readers about the purpose and benefit of this blog.

I'll put forward an oldie but a goodie here: if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

by Jeb Stenhouse on Aug 14, 2009 2:32 pm • link • report

As someone who grew up in the District and may very well return (to work, start a family, etc.) after graduating from college in two years, I'd certainly be interested in reading more on education. That said, I doubt my perspective is particularly representative of the GGW readership as a whole, so take my vote for what it's worth.

by E.E. on Aug 14, 2009 2:37 pm • link • report

I agree with Jeb--I don't think the broader focus would necessarily help GGW. OTOH, a good DC education blog following the GGW model would be required reading for me. Might I suggest a sister-site or sub-blog type thing? Keep the content separated, but I'd be interested to read it.

by Dan Miller on Aug 14, 2009 2:39 pm • link • report

David - I like this sort of meta discussion on a topic. Can I suggest another meta discussion topic for another day (and particularly relevant since the Council just acted on this issue): Vacant property in DC and best public policy for dealing with it?

by Fritz on Aug 14, 2009 2:39 pm • link • report

@Fritz: Sorry, that's meta-meta discussion (discussions about meta discussions), which isn't allowed.

by Michael Perkins on Aug 14, 2009 3:09 pm • link • report

Why did I just get a flashback of reading Godel, Esher, Bach just then?

by Michael Perkins on Aug 14, 2009 3:21 pm • link • report

Well, I have offered to write on education, since that's my area, and I am knowledgeable there, but it takes time to meet the high standards that GGW sets and I've suspected that Jeb's views are typical. But I'll keep reading here to see if there is an audience.

Let me throw out some topics:
- DCPS has over 1 million excess square feet of space because they have been losing enrollment dramatically, most of it going to the other public school system in DC: charters. Is the school district squatting in these buildings to avoid their going over to the competition? Is the city making the best use of the space?

- DCPS's Out-of-Boundary system of school choice plus the many public charter school options mean that a growing number of DC school children are not attending a neighborhood school. Is that a bad thing? Is the expanded choice and divorcing residential location from school location a net positive?

- What role does school quality (or perceived school quality) play in the demographic makeup of DC? Does the school system in DC (relative to MoCo, Arlington, Fairfax) cause middle class families to head for the exits when their kids hit elementary school?

- Maybe a dead issue by now, but what should happen to the "Opportunity Scholarship Program" aka federal private school voucher program that is being phased out?

- Should public officials send their kids to public schools? (Ahem, Mayor Fenty?) Or do security/privacy concerns override public relations?

- What should happen to DC's historic facades that were once schools but now in disrepair: Franklin School (closed homeless shelter at 14th and K NW), Gale School (closed homeless shelter on Mass Ave NW), Grimke School (FEMS offices on Vermont at U St. NW), and Harrison School (underutilized by small arts school at 13th and V St. NW).

- Michelle Rhee - love her? hate her? discuss.

I'm sure there are more issues but that's what comes to mind.

by Ward 1 Guy on Aug 14, 2009 3:23 pm • link • report

I'd stay away from that snake-filled manure pit.

Quite frankly, I can't even think of what needs to be discussed. DC public education is a disgrace, while some of the private (higher education) institutions belong to the top in some of their fields. None of that will likely change at all within the near future.

by Jasper on Aug 14, 2009 3:26 pm • link • report

When I first got into DC transit nerd-ism a year or two ago, part of what excited me about the whole discussion was that it was about a local political issue that I could relate to on a personal level. My wife and I don't have kids yet, and everywhere else I turned, it seemed like local politics was 100% schools. And hey, there's nothing wrong with that - if I were a local politician that would be my focus too. It's really, really important!

But GGW isn't a politician, it's a blog, and as such it's allowed to carve out as narrow a niche as it likes. I'm only speaking for myself here, but if you do start to cover education in a big way (one that's outside of the current scope of the blog), you will be diluting the thing that attracted me to the blog in the first place.

All that said, there are plenty of school-related topics which WOULD fit well into the current scope of the blog: school location, zoning and traffic safety near schools, school buses, students using public transit, etc.

by Jake H on Aug 14, 2009 3:32 pm • link • report

I definitely agree with the comments Jeb Stenhouse laid out.

And to be honest, I hav another fear, albeit probably unfounded. Allow me to go out on a limb and say that the majority of GGW readers, and I suspect contributions, are liberals. Part of that's just demographics, appealing to a younger, more urban audience. And of course, democrats have traditionally done a better job avoiding the "build more highways!" knee-jerk reaction (although we've definitely seen that no one is immune). As a conservative myself, reading this blog has definitely made transportation one of the issues I am most liberal in. And because auto-centrism cuts across all political parties, GGW has done a pretty good job keeping partisanship out of the picture. But I fear that when dealing with a topic like education, it's going to turn more conservative readers, possibly including me, away, in no small part because education is a lot thornier and more tied up in traditional dividing lines of interest. Sure, you probably wouldn't loose many readers, but I would bet most of the ones you'd loose are people like me; people who need their minds to be changed.

That's just my two cents.

by Doug on Aug 14, 2009 3:50 pm • link • report

It should be discussed, in part because it somewhat eclipses many other issues in importance. Guessing most of you guys are at the age where nextbus accuracy matters more than the price of diapers, but frankly, that's a focus that's entirely too narrow to be realistic. People with kids usually have radically altered priorities (this is from observation, not personal experience, btw) and for them, quality education for their kid is suddenly #1. The many, many mid-class couples decamping for MoCo, Ffx and beyond every year aren't necessarily happy to leave the city and all it's transity vibrant-tastic urbanism, but they will do it for their kids' education. That's just the reality of the situation and everything that concerns making the center city "Greater" for a large swath of the population just isn't as important.

by NAB on Aug 14, 2009 4:00 pm • link • report

I'd like to see education issues talked about a bit more. Lynda's past posts have generated a lot of conversation, and quite frankly education ties into building a community.

For instance, the gentrification of certain schools in Capitol Hill has been very controversial, but they are starting to see different results than more typical DC schools. These successes make the District livable for many middle class parents.

Many people who make comments on this blog often compare DC with European cities, but we will never, ever be comparable to those places without more middle class families living within DC. 20-somethings, yuppies/buppies/guppies, and the poor cannot provide the vibrancy that truly diverse cities offer.

Just because many of your readers don't have kids yet shouldn't discourage talks on education. Perhaps it will inform them & motivate them to get involved so that they can stay in the District when they start having kids.

by mike capitol hill on Aug 14, 2009 4:00 pm • link • report

I say open up the discussion, but maintain the current focus.

The current readers are here because we're interested and knowledgeable about transportation and land use: that's what keeps GGW interesting reading and keeps the comments lively. But other issues are important to urbanism too, even if only seen through the lens of how to make more livable, sustainable communities. We should broaden the dialog to include those issues, but we should do it gradually and not in overwhelming volume, so current readers can learn more about the issues over time.

Other then education, urban stigmas which GGW doesn't often discuss include crime, poverty, race, and noise/space/privacy concerns (noise from upstairs neighbors, no yard for your kids to play in, cramped conditions, etc.). Whether reality or perception, these issues make many middle- and upper-class people hesitant to leave the sprawling suburbs. I'm in favor of more discussion of such topics here, not to displace the primacy of the land use/transportation discussions, but as a supplement of, say, one or two posts a week. If you have trouble finding regular authors with expertise in these areas, David, an easy way to start might be with live chats with leaders on these topics.

by Gavin Baker on Aug 14, 2009 4:09 pm • link • report

talking more education could be interesting.

for starters, Safe Routes to Schools needs more attention. i don't have kids and can't even relate all that well, but i get furious when i see what we've done to school areas -- allowing auto traffic to speed through and around. lots of people belong in jail. it's something we can and should get fired up about. condemning kids to a life of isolation and obesity -- unconscionable.

i didn't know that the first day of school was one of the heaviest traffic days of the year.

i didn't know until recently that most parents drive their kids to school because they're afraid of their kids getting run over by other parents who drive their own kids to school.

David, CA, with their real bike and walk infrastructure, was able to get rid of their expensive school bus system.

Douglas Rushkoff has spoken eloquently about how we can repair our public school system.

It's a huge topic, but I don't believe it has to be as complex as some might suggest. There's right and wrong -- you make a choice - try something out -- if it works, great -- and if not, you try something else -- live and learn. And it's not like we have a shortage of experts out there, or a shortage of energy, or a shortage of parents who really want to make their schools a better place.

i've followed GothamSchools.org on and off for a while -- http://gothamschools.org/ -- it's good stuff. And necessary.

i say we do it.

by Peter Smith on Aug 14, 2009 4:23 pm • link • report

I'd say only talk about education if it relates and intersects with specific transportation issues. I'd rather not see general discussion about public education, as I don't think this is the place to do it. I like this blog because it talks about specific things that I am interested in and would rather it not just become a broader blog for advocating change. There are already plenty of those.

by Mark P. on Aug 14, 2009 5:28 pm • link • report

I agree with Gavin. I have always considered this blog more to be about making urban life more viable, and that means more than bike lanes and bus bulb outs.

Just so you know I'm in my mid-20's and probably 10 years away from having to make "school decisions", but it's important to me and I'd like to hear about it.

by Alex on Aug 14, 2009 5:40 pm • link • report

I think it depends on whether this blog is meant to really embrace making Greater Washington greater, or simply greater with regards to transit and land use.

Either is fine, and this blog works very well as the later. I can understand the reluctance to dilute the focus. If so, than perhaps you might wish to re-work the tag line.

As a DCPS parent I find that a.) my daughter has had two excellent and productive years so far and b.) the system is inexorably broke, far too expensive for what it delivers, unresponsive to parents, and hostile to teachers.

Obviously, for us parents there is no greater priority than our kids. That's what we signed on for, and it is our job to handle. But for the rest of you, why should you care:

1. You're paying for it, if you live in DC. Might as well get some return on investment, or at least control costs. I hate paying taxes to see money go down the drain.
2. You might have kids someday. Trust me, having kids is enough of a disruption to your lifestyle without being forced to move if your school sucks.
3. A better quality education forestalls a lot of social problems down the road. The teenager chucking rocks at you could be in school learning something productive, or at least not throwing rocks.

I understand if you still don't care. Heck, I didn't care at all about the several posts about Gaithersburg recently, but it was clearly in line with the concept of making greater Washington greater.

by TimKt on Aug 14, 2009 6:12 pm • link • report

I would not stay away from the snake pit!

NAB is exactly right (but it'd be really interesting to see if those numbers aren't in fact declining.)

The biggest reason we don't talk about education more, quite simply, is that I'm not as knowledgeable about it as I am about streets, buildings, and public spaces.

Should we maintain a more narrow focus on streets and buildings, or is it time to reach out to a new and extremely important area of policy?

But in fact, we do talk about other things, such as the topics Lynda brings up (as another commenter noted).

That said, I doubt my perspective is particularly representative of the GGW readership as a whole, so take my vote for what it's worth.

by E.E. on Aug 14, 2009 2:37 pm

I think your perspective is exactly representative of the readership of this blog!

About the excess space of public schools, if we're talking about building back the public school system, then we will need that space. My hunch is, is that there is a growing cadre of parents out there who've bought houses and maybe even condos that do not want to move, and are going to be more and more vocal about moving things their way. Hopefully they will have success.

But GGW isn't a politician,
by Jake H on Aug 14, 2009 3:32 pm

--yet...;)

Peter Smith, great post.

Likewise TimKt.

Everyone's said it so much better than I ever could.

Yes, to discussing education.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

by Jazzy on Aug 14, 2009 6:31 pm • link • report

Yes to discussions about education, but it would be great to get specific if possible, to learn more about what is happening with local schools. It shouldn't matter if we have kids or not, or whether our kids have already graduated, we should be concerned about the education of all children in the District. About the liberal/conservative debate, I think for the level headed discussions here, this wouldn't be a problem. I think talking about specific schools or the district administration helps to bridge the two sides.

by Joe P on Aug 14, 2009 7:40 pm • link • report

Good point about the liberal vs. conservative debate, Joe P. I think if we dig further into it, we'll find a lot of the old assumptions on both side will fall apart in the face of on the ground reality and new thinking. In the last Presidential debate I was shocked at how little either Party platforms addressed the concerns I had about our education system. It's as if I was listening to a debate in 1980. I think we're going through a time of flux and, perversely, the historically crappy nature of DC schools is giving us the freedom to be more innovative and perhaps end up with a better product down the road. Or we could just fail another generation of kids.

by TimK on Aug 14, 2009 7:58 pm • link • report

Education (and, more broadly raising children in D.C.) is clearly a vital topic that is at the core of this blog's mission. It would be sad if the topic was actively ignored merely to keep a transit/urban planning focus on the blog.

From a personal standpoint, one reason I just bought a place less than a mile from the D.C. boarder (near mass transit) rather than in D.C. is because of the education options in D.C.

I feel that high quality information on this topic is lacking and there is clearly a niche to fill. At the very least GGW can do link dumps of high quality posts on D.C. education with light commentary. This would help nurture and bring more readers' eyes to this topic. Probably the most ideal option would be to make a greatergreaterwashington.org/education site where users could read about the topic without diluting the focus of the current sight. That would involve significant commitment of this site and they might not have enough quality writers yet, but it would be very useful.
(GGW is a great domain name for a series of sub-sites on different topics with user options on how to merge the topics on the home page)

by dd on Aug 15, 2009 8:53 am • link • report

condemning kids to a life of isolation and obesity -- unconscionable.

Ok, this is an issue. Perhaps we can look at education from a transportation point of view. There are often articles about poor intersections from the POV of bikers or pedestrians. How about the POV of kids? Or parents bringing their kids to school? Those issues are relevant.

I maintain we should stay far far far away from issues pertaining school funding, content of education and the hole organization of the system.

Oh, and something else. This site is not called "Greater Greater District". I forgot that myself too. Whereas the DC school system is a POS, Arlington and Fairfax do have good school systems.

I also am somewhat confused that nobody else brings up the higher educations we have. We've got pretty much the whole spectrum there. Huge state schools (UMD, GMU, both the largest in their state), very exclusive schools (GWU and GU), an predominantly black school, a catholic school, etc. And then there's the community colleges. NOVA, MoCo, etc. All of them with their own challenges, transit problems, campus environments (from urban to rural), etc etc.

by Jasper on Aug 15, 2009 1:20 pm • link • report

Education is an important topic, certainly, but whether it is appropriate for GGW is dubious. For one, it's a social issue, and a very broad one at that. Where do you begin and then end? Do you limit the subject to inner city schools or reach further into the suburban systems? If education in the District is examined, then why not that of Arlington or Montgomery or Prince George's counties? Public, private, charter schools—for or against? Teacher certification? Lunch programs? Facilities? The list goes on and on ...

With an expansion into education and other social issues, GGW will only dilute it's current purpose—that of closely examining transportation and land use issues and advocating policies that promote more cohesive and livable communities. If education is to be a subject of discussion, why not plunge into the issues of crime, poverty, homelessness, race, and economic inequity? Or go even further and delve into tax policy and politics? As was noted earlier in another post, the topic of education is a big "can of worms," and indeed that's exactly what it is and it needs to remain shut.

What GGW is in dire need of is a succinct mission statement. GGW will be most effective by simply continuing on as it has, with small additions and adjustments here and there. As GGW has consistently shown, many transportation, land use, and economic development issues evolve into major causes that provoke highly passionate interest and discussion. For GGW to continue to be meaningful player in these discussions, isn't it best to stay on message, rather than jump into new realms which will only shift the debate and conversation to other issues.

by Anon on Aug 15, 2009 4:44 pm • link • report

... and advocating policies that promote more cohesive and livable communities.

Education definitely fits there. I'm sick of the washpost coverage which is essentially writers justifying why they are sending their own kids to suburban or private schools by highlighting everything bad in D.C. without publicizing the good or even seriously discussing solutions.

...why not plunge into the issues of crime, poverty, homelessness, race, and economic inequity?

Why not? These are all important issues that interact with land use and transportation and are key to making a greater greater washington. As long as quality in all topics stays high, nothing is diluting this site. Having an established brand address issues on these topics, is unquestionably a good thing for the region.
If you have top-flight transportation writers and mediocre education writers, that is diluting, but I think there are enough good writers to keep quality high.

From the website perspective, the question is how to keep quality high and let people find the information they want without being swamped with topics they aren't interested in. If this site wants to grow, that's a great challenge to try to answer. One possibility is a dailykos style diary aggregators with tags so people can either see all writing or have autofilters for specific topics. (keeping a limited author-set unlike dailykos, is probably better for this site) Still, even in the dailykos case, they ended up spinning off congressmatters.com for posts that are too legislator wonky even for dailykos.

by dd on Aug 15, 2009 7:22 pm • link • report

Public education is about educating a public. How we, as tax payers/citizens, want those who live with us to be introduced to and taught about life and living. How do we want kids to learn about their environment, how they should or could move about in that environment? To ignore schools and education is missing a big opportunity to inform and influence a lot of kids.

Education is a third of the DC budget we should be sure schools are doing what we think they should.

by Bonnie on Aug 15, 2009 11:51 pm • link • report

My thought is that it's a really important issue but should only be included if you can find someone that's interested in passionately writing about how to make education better. It's a big topic and would take up a lot of time and energy following in addition to the transit and land use stuff David already covers.

by Michael Perkins on Aug 16, 2009 8:41 am • link • report

I don't think GGW intends to swamp the blog with education posts, so occasional coverage of education would be welcome.

In fairness, I should state that I live in DC, I don't have children and I am highly interested in planning. I often see the quality of public education informing people's decisions as to where to live, and this in turn shapes what is built and where. Building a lively and diverse District means including people in different life situations and there is one very large demographic the city turns off: middle-class families. In fact, I'm delighted when I see young middle-class families in the city, knowing that I'm not just living in a city that exemplifies John Edwards's "two Americas"--- one of the poor and one of the privileged.

When I ask middle class parents why they live where they do, they inevitably mention the school system and that they would never live in DC because of the atrocious performance of the school system here. For the same reason, my parents moved to Montgomery County decades ago. In fact, I'm glad they did because I doubt any DC public school could match the public education I received.

Like it or not, this perception of mediocrity (largely supported by test scores and drop-out rates) drives investment away from the city and toward Montgomery, Fairfax, and Arlington Counties. This is America, not a third-world banana republic, and as such our economy and real estate development patterns are driven overwhelmingly by the preferences and economic influence of the middle class.

We discuss factors that drive sprawl, such as subsidized highways, but rarely have I heard of someone moving to Fairfax or Montgomery Counties because they love driving on the highways. The driving force is almost always crime and the quality of the schools.

If GGW cannot offer expert analysis of how the fix the system, posts that carefully post the differences in quality and outcomes between DCPS and neighboring school systems would be welcome. But to ignore education entirely is like a farmer ignoring the Sun. It's not the only element critical to a successful farm, but it's certainly a major component.

by Monumentality on Aug 16, 2009 1:23 pm • link • report

Avoid discussion of education. Avoid, avoid, avoid. Every other forum discusses education and just look at what it's accomplished! May we please continue returning to ggw for a refuge away from pointless hot-air discussions about education?

Anyway, if you were to discuss education here, which I do hope you won't!, your focus should be on the views of the empty nesters etc etc. Any opinions that might be held by people with actual living children attending public-public schools are void; if they really gave a hoot about the kids they would have moved away by now.

by Turnip on Aug 16, 2009 8:50 pm • link • report

I went to FCPS, which is why I'm usually right.

by MPC on Aug 16, 2009 11:49 pm • link • report

@Turnip: maybe your comment, like MPC's, was meant to be funny. But I found it offensive.

Raising a family in DC is a major life decision. When my wife and I made that decision ourselves, we, along with other parents, took matters into our own hands and started a charter school, pouring our hearts and energy into this effort over a period of years, and now trusting in it to care for the most important thing in our lives, our son. We are also active in making sure that all public schools in DC are improving, for the good of the city.

Honestly, I don't give a crap about sidewalk bulb-outs and whether newspaper accounts of road accidents are too "auto-centric", but I wouldn't narrow the discussion or the list of people who are eligible to discuss it.

by Ward 1 Guy on Aug 17, 2009 4:08 pm • link • report

I'd love to see it as a sister blog, but please not here on GGW. Smarter smarter washington?

by b-ro on Aug 18, 2009 10:44 am • link • report

I think you can't make greater Washington greater without talkin about education. I have already decided that when I have children we are moving to VA or MD. Why? Because DCPS is infamously bad. I'm from the Midwest and I had heard how badly it was run before I ever even consider living here.

I would say narrow your focus and do not get into an expansive discussion.

You said you know buildings, then look at smarter uses of the buildings the DCPS uses that could be more efficiently used by some other group.

Wading into performance based evaluation (which I'm in favor of, if you can't cut then why are you there) is not what GGW does best.

by 9th St. corridor on Aug 18, 2009 12:01 pm • link • report

@9th st. corridor: Have you visited any DCPS schools, been to an open house? What about a DC charter school? I have. We have some schools that are working miracles with high poverty kids and decrepit facilities and we have some schools that fully deserve the bad reputation -- both traditional DCPS and charter. It usually takes about five minutes to figure out which is which.

If you can get your kid into a good school and/or a school where you as a parent can influence what happens, then there is no reason to go to the suburbs. At least that's my opinion.

BTW, despite living in this area off and on since 1986 I had never heard the term "Greater Washington" before this blog. It reminded me of "Greater Boston", which is the term used for that metro area, and possibly others. It's interesting what people read into the term (what geographic area and what aspects of life it applies to).

by Ward 1 Guy on Aug 18, 2009 3:06 pm • link • report

Turnip: Many responses come to mind about your post. All I can say, is that if it was a joke, you need to work on it. If not, I understand this blog's policy is to shy away from ad hominem posts. Lucky you.

9th St Corridor: I can understand your reluctance to send your potential kids to DC schools. I wouldn't attempt to change your mind, but would ask you take a look at them. So far, I've had good luck with them, but I'm hardly an enthusiastic fan. But I'd say it would be a mistake to dismiss them without digging into them deeper. It's like when you tell people you live in DC and they recoil and say isn't that "the murder capitol of the country" or "didn't they just re-elect Marion Berry mayor again". While there's a grain of truth to these stories, they don't reflect the reality and complexity of life in DC.

As we continue to discus this topic, perhaps more discussion is warranted on this blog. Occasional and balanced with other topics to be sure. Despite Turnip's offensive, callous, and ignorant post; he has a point. Including the opinion of those who don't have a kid in the system is critical to making it a "parents demand better" story into a "Washington demands better" one. There are tons of discussions between parents about education; reaching out to others not "involved" is important to building energy for reform and an urgency that the status quo is unacceptable.

by TimK on Aug 18, 2009 3:38 pm • link • report

3/4's of households don't have children. However the whole community benefits when more people in it are better educated. The quality of public education in DC affects the whole region.

by Bianchi on Aug 18, 2009 3:45 pm • link • report

Are there any existing blogs about the public schools in DC/Va./Md. that come close to the quality of content on GGW? If so, what are those blogs?

by Andy Peters on Aug 30, 2010 4:30 pm • link • report

Andy: I wish. Know anyone who wants to write about education for GGW at that level of quality?

by David Alpert on Sep 1, 2010 8:11 am • link • report

I do not know anyone who could write GGW-quality material on education. I think that would be an extraordinarily valuable thing. And I think GGW's mission statement calls for such coverage: "improving the vitality of Washington, DC....."

In the absence of such a person, GGW's writers should try to integrate education into their posts. Education informs and influences mass transit, affordable housing, bike trails, walking trails, etc., and vice-versa, at the most basic level. One of the great things about the writings on GGW is that they tackle complex, dense subjects without reading like dry, academic term papers. Addressing education in the context of urban planning runs the risk that GGW posts will stray into the territory of Brookings Institution papers (which of course have their own place.)

But I think it can be done. It certainly *should* be done.

by Andy Peters on Sep 1, 2010 9:18 am • link • report

One other thought: if young professionals are going to continue to move to DC/MD/VA, one reason they're moving is because the public schools in MD/VA/DC are better than the public schools in Atlanta, Dallas and Phoenix.

by Andy Peters on Sep 1, 2010 9:22 am • link • report

As some one born and raised in Dallas and now living in DC I can tell you you are completely wrong. The schools in Dallas are way better than DC and the magnets are some of the best in the nation. If I stay in DC it will be because I decide the quality of life is better because the city is more livable and has a better economy. I wont be paying 300k more for significantly less house (or commuting 2 hours from VA) because of the schools. For that much money I could send Junior to Andover.

I'm going to need 500k to enter into a neighborhood with schools par of those in Dallas where a home would cost me 200k or less, plus I'm losing a bedroom and outdoor space. Trust me, my wife and I go over this almost everyday.

by Alex on Sep 1, 2010 9:36 am • link • report

@Alex : I take your word for it. I threw out those 3 cities only as examples, not because I know anything of the Dallas public schools.

I think my point remains valid, though: People will move to Greater Washington because of the walkable communities, but also because of the quality of the schools; in many cases, the Greater Washington schools will be better than where they moved from. Yes, it would be more expensive to live in certain school districts. But for many parents, who would otherwise pay for private school if they could afford it, they are willing to pay more for housing if they deem the schools to which they are zoned make it worth it.

I seriously doubt the housing costs in parts of DC/MD/VA are so expensive that the cost to live there, even with saving money by going to the public school, is comparable to sending a child to Andover.

by Andy Peters on Sep 1, 2010 9:48 am • link • report

I have not run the numbers, but my assumption is that the overall cost of a $400,000, 3BR, 1BA house in Silver Spring plus sending your child to the Montgomery Co. school district is considerably cheaper than a 3BR, 1BA house in Gainesville, Va. plus sending your child to Sidwell Friends School.

If not Gainesville, Va., then fill in the blank of the town in VA/MD with the lowest cost of living that's within a 2-hour commute to downtown DC.

by Andy Peters on Sep 1, 2010 9:54 am • link • report

Then you would be surprised. Andover runs slightly over 40k a year. Lets say you send two children there from 6-12 grade. That's 14 years time 40k or $560,000.

What's the price of a basic 3 bedroom in Oyster-Adams? The cheapest I see is listed at $700,000 in an apartment. Compare that to Lakewood in Dallas (a top DISD elementary school) where a half dozen houses are listed under $140,000. That's without taking into account interest.

It costs a ton of money to live here, we could do so much more with less in other parts of the country. The question for us is how much is it worth to be able to walk to work in a vibrant downtown?

by Alex on Sep 1, 2010 10:05 am • link • report

But the schools and neighborhoods in silver Spring and Gainesville are no where near good enough quality for me to consider staying in the area.

by Alex on Sep 1, 2010 10:08 am • link • report

Discussion about school quality and costs aside, my original point was that it would be a great thing if GGW could add posts about education that are of the same extremely high quality as its posts about smart growth, transportation, etc., or to do more to integrate issues of education into its existing posts.

by Andy Peters on Sep 1, 2010 10:45 am • link • report