Vienna, Austria has a city airport train (CAT) and it provides high speed, direct access to the city center. There are more affordable options available that run along the commuter train routes, but the CAT is perfect for a city that has a lot of visitors interested in going straight downtown from the airport.

by Eric H. on Oct 9, 2009 12:14 pm • link • report

I understand where you're coming from Spencer. If I was to diagram a utopian fantasy map with no regards for costs I'd put in express tracks along several corridors.

However costs and the existing fabric of the system do matter. Even if the engineering side of it were possible WMATA is not going to perform major surgery on the Ballston to Metro center corridor that would cost billions and make the Orange line inaccessible for years.

In your proposed solution the express tracks only speed up the ride from Dulles to Falls Church. Then the train merges with the Orange Line through Arlington and into the District. That shared track is will continue to be near capacity from regular service. It likely would not have bandwidth for more than one express train per 25 or 30 minutes. At that point what have you really gained? A rider can wait ~25 minutes to catch an express train with a moderatly faster ride instead of riding on a silver line train that arrives every 6-12 minutes. To me that doesn't seem worth the capital investment given other ways that $$$ could be used to boost the system.

by Paul on Oct 9, 2009 12:38 pm • link • report

This proposal is nice but unrealistic given the $$$ situation. The silver line will be essentially paid for by developers along the new stations. They're indifferent to whether there's a one-seat, high-speed connection to the airport.

by Simon on Oct 9, 2009 12:43 pm • link • report

Have you asked the City of Falls Church? I bet they don't want an express track cutting through their small burb. This idea is not going anywhere.

by crin on Oct 9, 2009 12:53 pm • link • report

this is a fantastic idea and with proper support could actually work- but in this country we are not inclined to give up road/highway space to new rail-

[ in the USA we often gladly pave over old rail rights of way w/o any controversy ]
and that would likely be an issue since some parts of the old WO&D right of way have been taken over or altered. Much of it is still there- and it should most definitley go back to it's original purpose. Funny thing is- the WO&D railroad was actually used to build Dulles- and then was abandoned.The current DC area Metro system was built w/o regards to the potential for population growth- and lacks 3rd railset capacity-we have no redundancy built in to our system - in a system so heavily used- this is a must- and we have been sufferring because of this problem. We would have fewer delays, and during emergencies re-routing of trains onto another set of tracks would allow the system to function while repairs/rescues are made. The original designers were very short sighted in many regards with the Metro.

An express line from Dulles is a GREAT idea and deserves more study.

Express lines for the WHOLE SYSTEM are what we really need for the future. Retro fitting is expensive to be sure- but so are highways. All new rail lines should have 3 tracks MINIMUM. They are making the same stupid stupid mistake by not doing this on the new Silver Line when they have the opportunity to do it the right way.

by w on Oct 9, 2009 12:54 pm • link • report

Two big downsides to this idea.

1. You miss Tysons.

2. The W&OD right of way isn't usable as it stands currently. Obviously, there aren't any tracks there right now. But just to get VRE type service, you'd have to deal with serious ROW encroachment in Alexandria and along I-66, you'd have to add a lot of expensive grade separation closer in.

The whole advantage of commuter rail as we use it in the US is that you can just take trains and run them on existing tracks. Putting the W&OD to use for passenger rail would require far too much investment to make that level of service cost-effective.

by Alex B. on Oct 9, 2009 12:54 pm • link • report

Anyone who says that this cannot be done is an unimaginative dullard and naysayer-

the greatest things ever done in this country were done despite naysayers- and the same is true with all human endeavors.

THIS IDEA MUST BE MADE TO HAPPEN !!!!!

by w on Oct 9, 2009 12:58 pm • link • report

In Oslo (where our President will soon be going), there is an express train from the Airport to the central station. I think it might make one other stop at this convention center complex built out in the suburbs (the National Harbor of Scandanavia). The trains are dedicated only for this line and are the newest and nicest in the Norwegian rail system. The platforms are basically right at the terminal, no shuttle bus needed.

Trains leave every 30 minutes, early morning until late night and are said to be quicker then taking a cab. Cost is steep (like everything in Oslo), but ridership is still pretty high.

To make the Dulles train work, you need no longer then 30 minute headways and express service. With Metro you get the headways, but the ride into the city will be agonizingly slow, much slower then taking a cab which can use the dedicated and HOV lanes. Business travellers will go with the cab since someone else is paying, so there goes a lot of your riders. Plus, Metro trains are not exactly the most comfortable way to ride long distances with their plastic seats.

The MARC experiment to BWI is airport rail at its worst. Slow trains, long headways, and a station that isn't even at the airport, but is a bus ride away.

by metronic on Oct 9, 2009 1:01 pm • link • report

London is really the pertinent comparison here. The Piccadilly Line runs every 3-7 minutes (slightly more frequent than the Silver line) and is a 45-60 minute one-seat ride to central London, with plenty of stops in developed areas in between. Yes, there's also the Heathrow Connector and Express, but for tourists and business travelers who'll be relying on the Underground during their stay anyway, this first entrance to the Tube is very useful.

As it is, driving to Dulles from central DC is 45 minutes in good traffic (which isn't often,) so the Silver Line will pick up a healthy mode share. At rush hours, it may even be faster--and certainly more convenient than finding a Flyer Cab in downtown DC. A separate express line might be nice for a few, but not at the expense of a fully integrated Silver Line.

by Ted R. on Oct 9, 2009 1:05 pm • link • report

In the worst off rush hour traffic, a cab ride from Downtown DC to Dulles takes much less then 45 minutes. From the TR bridge to the airport is all HOV and the Dulles Access road. Its only 25 miles from the bridge to the airport, and most of that will be at 65mph+.

Driving yourself, forget it. But in a cab, its much quicker.

Also, DC cabs can and will take you to Dulles. Hailing one on the street is taking a chance, but usually the ones waiting at major hotels will take you out there.

by metronic on Oct 9, 2009 1:11 pm • link • report

There is no need to reinvent the wheel. If we need an express service to the airport, just run skip-stop trains along the Metro line. You might have a case to do a line on the trail if the Silver line weren't already being built, but it is.

Doing skip-stop Metro, you avoid the massive cost a whole second rail line, you avoid the likely unworkable political decision to tear up the trail, you avoid the time lost by routing a Dulles line way south to the Pentagon.

Skip-stop Metro is a better, cheaper, and faster. It has no downside.

by BeyondDC on Oct 9, 2009 1:18 pm • link • report

I'm of the opinion that the most important upgrade VRE and MARC could undertake would be to extend their existing service. I'd like to see a competent 24 hour system before we venture into a gun fight that would make the Purple Line look like it was planned and built by the Chinese.

I'm extremely worried about WMATA's ability to assume responsibility of the Silver Line. With the exception of Inauguration, this year has been a miserable failure for the system.

by JTS on Oct 9, 2009 1:18 pm • link • report

I agree with the general reaction that this would be nice with an unlimited budget, but that's not what we've got. Plus you're talking about pissing off all the trail lovers. Maybe we'd be lucky enough and it wouldn't bisect a fancy country club with lots of lawyers, but there would still be plenty of people who would not like to see trees cut down and picnic areas removed simply for express service.

Another option I've proposed that's still expensive and impractical but not impossible is for the Silver Line to stay in the middle of 66 from Falls Church to Rosslyn, then travel down through Pentagon to downtown. This would provide express-like service (by skipping five stops), take pressure off the tunnel, and take people off the Orange line train through Arlington.

I-66 as it is through Arlington is too narrow to allow a median for the train, but it's probably not impossible to fix and while it would be expensive, it's not like a new tunnel would be cheap.

by Reid on Oct 9, 2009 1:21 pm • link • report

Don't forget London's Crossrail. In about a decade or so, a new RER-type service will take passengers to the airport from Paddington, Liverpool Street, and other major transfer points downtown (with several intermediate stations, however).

The advantage of building an express system from the start is that you could still have regular Orange Line service to Tysons Corner, but that line would truncate at Tysons, instead of going out the airport. To me, an ideal express service might have 2-3 intermediate stations between Dulles and downtown DC (Reston, a Tysons intermodal station, and ideally Rosslyn).

by Reza on Oct 9, 2009 1:24 pm • link • report

Express service out the Dulles Corridor woudl be nice, but the W&OD is not the way to go. Despite the fact that that it "used to be" a rail corridor, putting rail back on the W&OD would be a LOT...I repeat, LOT more expensive than the Silver Line.

The Silver rail easement down the middle of the Toll Road is already completely grade separated and has sound walls the whole way.

The W&OD is not - 20 or more very large bridges would need to be constructed, along with complete re-grading where it is or never was wide enough. Also, no sound walls exist on the W&OD. Citizens, rightly so, would demand them.

The optimal fantasy express would have 3 stops between downton and dc:
1. Rosslyn
2. Tysons Central
3. Reston Town Center

And the W&OD only hits RTC.

A better solution would be to do a 3rd track for the whole length of the Silver line, but it's probably too late.

by stevek_fairfax on Oct 9, 2009 1:31 pm • link • report

In Tokyo they have the 'Narita Express' that runs on commuter lines, but makes fewer stops. This may not be feasible throughout the entire system, but could it be set up so that certain trains between Dulles and Falls Church make no stops or a single stop in Tysons?

Basically, have the 'local' train slip onto a separate track within a station and be passed while the 'express' goes by like they do in Tokyo. While it wouldn't shave too much time individuals would know that once they reached a certain point the train would stop making stops at every station.

by Rob on Oct 9, 2009 1:38 pm • link • report

Getting to Dulles is something I've had a little too much practice with...

* Unless you want to pay $17 per 24 hours in the daily lots, driving to IAD requires exiling yourself to the economy lots (which are themselves no bargain at $10 a day), and the shuttle bus from there to the terminal can easily add another half an hour.

* As a result, the 5A bus often beats driving. (If the bus wouldn't take the most circuitous route imaginable through the Tysons Corner and Herndon-Monroe stops, it might be faster yet.)

I also have some familiarity with taking BART to SFO, and I wouldn't cite that as any example of how to do things right. Ever since BART started running only one train out of four down the SFO spur, that route's gotten a lot slower in practice--odds are, you'll have to wait in the city for an SFO train or wait at Daly City to change trains.

by Rob Pegoraro on Oct 9, 2009 1:39 pm • link • report

This is a terrible idea. I love the W&OD trail. Taking parkland (the W&OD ROW is owned by Northern VA Reg. Park Authority) to build an expensive railroad sounds nearly as bad as using it to build a freeway. Skip-stop metro is a much better idea.

by jcm on Oct 9, 2009 1:39 pm • link • report

An express bus in the Dulles lanes and dedicated bus lanes on I-66 could accomplish the same thing at a fraction of the cost. Not that it's a bad idea. I'm a cyclists and I'd be comfortable sharing the ROW, but I think the bus is better considering $$.

by David C on Oct 9, 2009 1:46 pm • link • report

Express-type service on the Silver Line would be an excellent way to provide a quicker trip to the outer parts of the Silver Line.

However, as currently designed, there will be no express tracks. While this does not necessarily preclude their inclusion in the future, there are a couple of reasons not to include them now:

1. Express tracks on the Silver Line would disappear once it met the Orange Line. At least until such time as a new Arlington subway could be constructed.
2. The Silver Line is already right at the edge of FTA's cost-effectiveness ratings. Express tracks would push the project over the limit and thus ensure that the federal government won't fund the project.
3. The Dulles Toll Road is only so wide. Adding more tracks reduces the amount of workspace during construction, and may exceed the available footprint anyway.

by Matt Johnson on Oct 9, 2009 1:48 pm • link • report

can only imagine building the roads for the stations along the W&OD, not to mention the screaming from people who live near the trail, or the impossibility of getting any FTA funding for a line with higher $ per rider because it doesn't go near any job centers

also, Dulles to Metro Center will take about the same time as O'Hare to the Loop

by David on Oct 9, 2009 1:55 pm • link • report

Matt Johnson makes some good points about the space during construction for a 3rd express line, but I think the 3rd line could be added relativly cost effectivly. The issue becomes stations, would they have three platforms? Given the saftey record of metro I would not want to see express trains merge onto local tracks any more then was nessary.

by Matt R on Oct 9, 2009 2:09 pm • link • report

I've said this before here, but the way to pay for it is to close National Airport. What are we doing with a small airport on such scenic land this close to the heart of the city? Develop it and spend the $Bs on high speed links to Dulles and BWI.

by HM on Oct 9, 2009 2:19 pm • link • report

This has been my idea for Metro through Reston the entire time: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=104231489843257225692.000464da75f05aec7a18c&t=h&z=13

It currently looks like from the Toll Road junction with I-66 that there is enough room for two more tracks to East Falls Church but from there it gets murky and expensive. There is probably room for a track or two to skirt around EFC but then you would run out of space going into Ballston, unless you somehow keep it in the median of I-66 and terminate it where?

by NikolasM on Oct 9, 2009 2:26 pm • link • report

Amsterdam-Schiphol is connected to Amsterdam up to 10 times an hour by train. The train station is directly under the main terminal of the airport. Your KLM ticket doubles as a day pass in the train for the day(s) of your flight(s).

Schiphol is also easily connected to The Hague, Rotterdam, and Utrecht, at least 4 times an hour. You can reach all major Dutch cities with a maximum of one change ot trains. You can reach most stations, even the small ones, with 2 changes of trains and virtually all with 3.

Burssel-Zaventem is easily reached from downtown Brussels to by train. Trains go many times an hour, with metro frequency.

In London, you pay a lot more for the faster trains. And even the "slow" tube line is pretty expensive because you cross all zones.

BTW: Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood FL also has very good train ad bus connections to the region.

by Jasper on Oct 9, 2009 2:27 pm • link • report

@HM

Did you say CLOSE Reagan National? I would probably die if they ever did that. I have never taken a flight out of Dulles, and I only use BWI for super-long distance flights. 85% of all of my mid-to-long distance travel is through Reagan. It has a station on the Blue and Yellow lines, (unlike Dulles, and even when Dulles does get Silver, it'll still take a long time for me to get out there from Southern Avenue) and its in the center of my lifespace. BWI is made for Baltimore. National is made for DC. Dulles is made for tourists.

by Mike on Oct 9, 2009 2:42 pm • link • report

MARC and VRE should run 24 hours a day- so should the DC Metro.

Why is it suddenly considered environmentally unsound to take out a recreation train and put it into use for rail when rail is the most energy efficient mode of mass transport yet invented by human beings?

These same "green" people didnt seem to mouth off when the ICC was built. When it's a rail project that is re-using an existing rail ROW they all get bent out of shape.

You people need to get out of your SUVs and start taking Metro, biking & walking.

by w on Oct 9, 2009 3:06 pm • link • report

Let’s add some numbers to the comparisons. Dulles is ranked 48th in the world in terms of number of passengers at 23.8 million in 2008. DCA (Reagan/National) is ranked 79th at 18 million. These numbers would indicate that Dulles has a strong need for a high-speed rail line in addition to the Silver Line; however, the more important statistic is the percentage of these passengers who are starting or finishing their trip in the Washington DC MSA (called “Origin and Destination” Passengers or “O&D”). According to MWAA, about 63% of Dulles passengers were O&D, the rest were connecting. For DCA, this number rises to almost 95%. Therefore, only 14.3 million passengers used Dulles to reach the Washington MSA while 17.1 million passengers used DCA for the same purpose.

A rail line assumes that the primary point of origin for airport passengers is the Central Business District. As we well know, the economic loci of Washington are spread out across the MSA, with a relatively high concentration of business activity located near to Dulles (Tysons, Reston, Herndon). This partially accounts for the even distribution of O&D passengers between the airports, despite the greater distance of Dulles from WashingtonÂ’s CBD. This is also why the Silver Line is a more cost-effective solution, because it will be useful to passengers for whom Dulles is already more convenient.

Another major argument against the efficacy of a rail line involves further segmenting DCA and Dulles traffic. Commercial operations at DCA are restricted to within 1250 miles of the airport, with several infrequent exemptions (under 2000 seats/day). Therefore, almost all O&D passengers at DCA are flying less than 3 hours to their destination. At Dulles, transcontinental and international destinations make up a large percentage of passengers (the top destination from Dulles is LAX). An extra 30 minutes added to a 6 to 7 hour flight makes less of a difference than 30 minutes added to a 1 hour flight. Therefore, a high speed rail link shaving 30 minutes off the travel time (as compared to the Silver Line) from the CBD to Dulles makes less of a difference, because of the distances many Dulles passengers are traveling.

A final note on comparing cities: London-Heathrow had 67 million passengers and Paris-CDG 60.9 million. Unfortunately, O&D stats are only publically available in US markets because of DOT filing regulations.

by Zach W on Oct 9, 2009 3:11 pm • link • report

Well I can assure you that plenty of passengers to Heathrow are connecting. National Airport also has extremely short runways which is also partly why the 1250 mile boundary is in place.

by NikolasM on Oct 9, 2009 3:20 pm • link • report

If you could do it without ruining my running/biking trail, more power to you... if you mess with that I know that a lot of people (including me) would make it their mission to stop anything that ruins the W&OD.

by Daniel on Oct 9, 2009 3:20 pm • link • report

Years ago (early 90's) there were Washington Flyer busses that ran essentially express service from Dulles to several large DC hotels and a bus terminal on K St.

Does anyone know what happened to that service? Now the Washington Flyer bus only goes as far as the West Falls Metro Station.

by metronic on Oct 9, 2009 4:06 pm • link • report

The W&OD Trail is owned not by the state but by the Northern Virginia Regional Park Authority. Some of the funding used to buy this park came from Federal Land & Water Conservation funding. To convert any part of this land to a non-park use would require the developer to provide other parkland of similar or greater park value and monetary value. This is a very high hurdle.

The other issue is this is one of the most popular parks in the world with well over 2 million users a year. From a transportation perspective it offers a very viable non-motorized transportation alternative to many.

by Paul on Oct 9, 2009 4:22 pm • link • report

NikolasM--The distance limits at National/Reagan were put in place to encourage air traffic to the newly opened Dulles Airport and (simultaneously) to limit growth of flights to national and their attendant noise.

Runway length is a practical limit in itself, not a reason for the flight limit.

by ah on Oct 9, 2009 4:37 pm • link • report

Metronic -- I don't know why the bus was dropped, but I do know it was far from an "express" bus unless you got off at the first hotel. A rookie I made the mistake of waiting for my actual hotel, which turned out to be about the 19th stop. Had I known better I could have gotten off a few blocks away and walked faster, but as it was it took quite some time.

by ah on Oct 9, 2009 4:39 pm • link • report

discussion of how to use valuable ROWs is always good, but I think any discussion of how to use these very rare mass transit dollars should ask, "are we designing a system for sometimes use, or everyday use"?

i'd venture that the average business traveler in dc uses any one of the airports about 5 times a year. that average traveler goes to work and home, and or out and about for entertainment or purchase 365 days per year. getting metro to the airport is a nice luxury if you can afford it or it happens to be along a line that also serves daily commuters. but these rare dollars should be focused on how to provide for everyday use.

regional transport priorities...
1. purple line md
2. extend orange line to fair oaks/fairfax corner & expand existing VRE and MARC service
3. dc, arlington, and inner fairfax county streetcars (would be even better if they were interconnected)
4. north and south mass transit to tysons corner:
southern access via route 123, gallows, and route 7 streetcars, and expand purple line to tysons via cap cres. ROW and route 123 right of way.

once we invest the 20 billion or so it will take to do all that, then let's chat about a fast way for residents of the district to get to dulles. most dulles metro travelers will come from reston, tysons, and arlington anyway and for them the ride isn't too long.

by stevek_fairfax on Oct 9, 2009 4:52 pm • link • report

I'm amazed. Thirty odd comments and nobody points out the obvious: the Silver Line can ALSO work as high(er) speed access to Dulles (as the RER express does in Paris)

By adding three miles of rail to bypass Tysons' (staying on the Dulles access road) and building the four planned stops between Tysons and Dulles with passing tracks it would be possible to have nonstop 80mph express trains run from East Falls Church to Dulles. (Yes - 80mph. It is 2009; why is Dulles metro being built to the 60mph standard for the rest of Metro? BART runs to 80mph)

Express trains would run from Dulles to the District in under 40 minutes (even with all the stops in Arlington). And dedicated platforms and gates at Dulles - where the expresses would presumably terminate - could make premium fares possible.

[Note that in the original alternatives analysis this option was disgarded because at the average current speeds of Metro operations skipping stops doesn't save much time. But at 80mph express service is a BIG WIN (saving as perhaps two minutes a stop) especially if you skip ALL the stops]

This is what we should be campaigning for: added capacity for express Silver Line service to Dulles. In addition to the locals. Leveraging the infrastructure that will be built anyway.

by egk on Oct 9, 2009 5:13 pm • link • report

I like Matt R and Reids suggestion for a 3rd express rail alongside the silver line stopping in EFC then going down the median of 66 to Rosslyn and on down the line. Granted it wont be cheap but if we get some money from the highway fund... :)
The goal isn't to move people to the airport quickly its to move everyone all over the area rapidly and efficiently. The Orange Crush is already full at rush hour the only way to get riders to change their patterns is to have another faster option. More rails now!!

by Chris R on Oct 9, 2009 5:58 pm • link • report

We need a rail version of Metro Extra

How hard or costly would it be to add to tracks to all outside track and stations.

All new outside stations should have a be like an updated version of the national airport station that supports at-least 4 tracks or similar to national rail stations which have 5 or 6 platforms side by side.

Many of the outside stations have enough room to remodel and support more tracks such as New York Ave, Rhode Island Ave, Greenbelt, Addison Road, Naylor Rd, Fort Totten and some stations could be double deck and have platforms above/below current ones only problem is this would be price hell.

Heres an idea (I know this would never ever happen but why not mention it) have some stations with above ground and underground platforms.

Take the middle red line track before Fort Totten going northbound some like that which leads to a second system which follows the above ground route and is used for express trains each having a separate platform at stations so that both can be served at the same time and not effect the other and maybe stop at every 2 or 3 stops along the line.

Blanketing as much of the system as possible like this.

Essentially creating a VRE/Marc version of metrorail which uses the same type of cars and is faster plus stops at many of the stations not all though.

by Kk on Oct 9, 2009 6:54 pm • link • report

Calm down. Take a cab.

by jay on Oct 9, 2009 9:42 pm • link • report

I read both commentaries.

Mr. Lepler is uses a narrow view when looking at the purpose of the project. His solution is basically redundent and would cost as least as much as the metrorail line.

Mr. Johnson see the big picture. He understands that the Dulles Corridor Metrorail Project is more then a link between urban core of Washington DC and Dulles Airport.

Here is a simple and far cheaper solution that would cut at least 15 minutes off the running time between urban core and the airport:

View Metrorail Tysons Corner in a larger map

by Sand Box John on Oct 9, 2009 11:25 pm • link • report

Sand Box John, your reroute just bypassed the land owners that are paying for a large portion of the project. You got to the airport faster, but left out the money that gets the train built in the first place.

by Michael Perkins on Oct 10, 2009 3:08 pm • link • report

An express bus in the Dulles lanes and dedicated bus lanes on I-66 could accomplish the same thing at a fraction of the cost. Not that it's a bad idea. I'm a cyclists and I'd be comfortable sharing the ROW, but I think the bus is better considering $$.

@David C: That's exactly the right answer. The dedicated airport only lanes that are present from the Beltway/Tyson's onward would be perfect. If you ran quality express bus service to the airport (and by that - I mean 10 minute headsways and *timed transfers* with a key station like WFC on the Orange Line) you could get excellent speeds and service to Dulles Airport. (As opposed to the 45 minute headway of the 5A right now - which has low service levels for a number of reasons)

Obviously, the Silver Line was never about access to the airport, it was about bringing rail to Tysons and Loudoun County.

by J on Oct 10, 2009 4:38 pm • link • report

MP- isn't Sand Box John proposing an *addition* (a <3 mile addition) to the current proposal? One that would make possible fast express service in addition to the local service.

by egk on Oct 10, 2009 6:41 pm • link • report

The fallacy of the argument for an express route is that although many people want to get from IAD to downtown DC, many others don't. There are a million folks in Fairfax County. There are many local travelers to Loundoun County, PW, even MoCo that are not helped a bit by an express train. That's roughly half of the areas population.

However, many of those might be helped by a local train, saving themselves, or whomever pick them up a considerable trip.

by Jasper on Oct 10, 2009 9:40 pm • link • report

I think this is the best solution after reading all the other comments:

1: A Tyson's Bypass (Tyson peeps could still take the locals to the Airport in pretty decent time, only 4 stops are planned between Tyson's and the Airport I think)

2a: A transfer type station (separate platfroms for Dulles Express) at EFC

OR

2b: A transfer type station (separate platforms for Dulles Express) at Ballston with either bypass tracks around EFC or with bypass tracks (so four tracks in the I-66 median) all the way to Ballston to the Tyson's Split and around the to-be built stations in the Dulles Toll Road median.

by NikolasM on Oct 11, 2009 7:58 pm • link • report

@egk
Thanks for saying that. One of the many benefits of running at 80mph (or faster) is that you smoke the cars on the adjoining road. It's not just that it's faster, it's that all the people who are driving note that it's faster, which is a useful marketing strategy. ALso, I totally agree that it's time to propel ourselves out of the early 20th century, when subway trains could already go 60.

If you've ever been on Amtrak north of Philly where it parallels I-95 and the train is going 100 or so, you just know that all those cars see the train whizzing by making a significant impression (sometimes you'll see a car doing about 80 thinking it can keep up, but it can't) .
But when you're in the I-66 median during HOV, the traffic moves along with the train, which only goes 60, and that does not impress the people in the cars. No marketing value.

by Steve O on Oct 11, 2009 11:32 pm • link • report

Michael Perkins:

As egk conveniently point out below, my bypass makes no changes to the N Route Sliver line through Tysons Corner. It simply provides for a non stop run between the East Falls Church station and the Wiehle Avenue Station.

I happen to believe that a significant percentage of the people that will use the Sliver line will never ride to points east of the Tysons East (WestGate) Station. I also happen to believe that a majority of the people that will board the Sliver line west of Tyson Corner will not be heading to points east of the Potomac River. This is the main reason why I thought it was dumb that the pocket tracks that were on both sides of Tysons Corner in the DEIS were deleted from the FEIS.

If those pocket tracks were to have been included fewer Silver line train would be clogging the Rosslyn portal and fewer Silver line train would be running to points west of Tysons West (Spring Hill Road). By running all of the Silver line train through Rosslyn portal the minimum peak headway on the Silver line will be 6 minutes.

Had the pocket tracks been included train operation on the segment of the Silver line west of the Tysons East (WestGate) Station could run headways as close as 2 minute 30 seconds.

The N Route Silver line has a designed specification headway of 135 seconds, the existing 106 mile system has a designed specification headway of 90 seconds.

by Sand Box John on Oct 12, 2009 1:49 am • link • report

I love the idea of an express train from downtown to IAD. Anyone who could make that happen would be my hero. I love going to DCA in particular because of it's great metro access. IAD and BWI would greatly benefit if they had similar transit options.

by ditro on Oct 12, 2009 10:54 am • link • report

Is that Tysons Bypass considered in long-term plans? I can understand that it's a low priority for now, and that the first few phases of the Dulles corridor line should focus on Tysons and Reston. But I hope they are leaving engineering options open to put in that bypass later. (I heard they did something similar for a Metrorail spur down Columbia Pike.)

by James M on Oct 12, 2009 7:29 pm • link • report

James M:

There is no such provision in any of the documents that I have read. However there is ample room in the median of the Dulles access road to put in such a bypass in the future provided funding can be found.

As to the Columbia Pike route, a provision does exist in the south end of the Pentagon Station. The tapered tunnels for a future junction in the south end of the station is a mirror image of the Yellow line junction in the north end of the station. Everything is there to accommodated the junction down to the floating slabs, traction power tie breaker station and third rail conduits. I would hazard guess there also is extra floor space in the train control room to accommodated the additional signaling equipment racks.

A side note, provision were built into the K Route Orange line to accommodated the future N Route Silver line. The security fence tapers away from the Orange line track under the Haycock Road overpass. There are third rail conduits and traction power tie breaker station for the future junction. However those provision will not be used, plans call for putting the junction under the Great Fall Street overpass.

That fact that the junction for the Silver line will be built where there is no existing provision set a precedent that future Tysons Corner bypass could be built.

by Sand Box John on Oct 12, 2009 10:46 pm • link • report

@Steve O.
The highest design speed on the Metro system is 75 mph. The Silver Line is being designed for that speed over much of the route.

HOWEVER, as a policy decision, Metro's rail operations department has set as the maximum allowed speed, 59 mph. This was done in the mid-90s to save energy.

by Matt Johnson on Oct 13, 2009 2:46 pm • link • report