Comments on What's the most crowded part of the Metro system? - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by lou

Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:35:35 EDT

I usually commute on the Red Line and I have some gripes about the timing of the trains. However, my one experience with the Orange has made me sympathetic to the travails of Orange line commuters. After arriving on a red eye from San Francisco to Dulles, I boarded the Metro at 7:30 a.m. at West Falls Church. It was already standing room only. At 7:30 in the morning. at one of the last stops on the train.

Comment by Catherine

Thu, 19 Nov 2009 00:20:27 EDT

I used to live at Courthouse, which I truly think might be the most difficult station to get onto a train (Rosslyn, too, but many people get off at Rosslyn, helping matters. Almost no one got off at Courthouse and the trains were always full). People would get really nasty, too. Throwing elbows etc. Some mornings (particularly snowy ones), I'd get on a train going the opposite direction for a few stops and try my luck at a farther out station.

This was all 4 or 5 years ago, so maybe things have improved. But that experience sold me on driving for a while (no kidding).

Comment by Jasper

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:04:39 EDT

@ Michael Perkins: Rewarding Arlington with more trains for its concentrated development near Metro seems like a good idea.

The blue line goes through Arlington too. All stops until Reagan are in Arlington.

Comment by Neil Flanagan

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:17:51 EDT

You have to think that a lot of the crushing could be alleviated through some of the simple ideas Metro has, e.g. Farragut tunnel.

Comment by Alex B.

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 16:05:12 EDT

Well, that depends on how fast that extra train fills up. Considering that the new train will be a Silver Line one, and it will have a long run through Loudoun and Fairfax first, it will certainly mean more frequent service and more capacity, but what that means is still up in the air...

Comment by Michael Perkins

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:58:45 EDT

Isn't it going to go to two silver, two orange and one blue per 12-minute period? Something like S O B S O ?

That's better for Arlington than O B O B O which is close to what they have now.

Comment by Joey

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 15:48:49 EDT

@Michael, it's not really rewarding Arlington with more trains if the Silver Line just eats up existing Orange Line slots.

My understanding is that the Rosslyn Tunnel is at capacity, with something like three Orange Line trains for each pair (2) of Blue Line trains using it in the peak period. For north Arlington to get additional capacity on the Rosslyn-Ballston route, one of those Blue Line slots will have to be taken away. Whether that's for the Orange Line or future Silver Line is irrelevant, isn't it?

Of course, if the existing Orange Line trains are relatively full before they hit East Falls Church, and not very many people board at Wiehle Avenue on the future Silver Line (the only park-and-ride location), stripping away an Orange Line slot to give to a Silver Line train might help boarders in Arlington (at the expense of WFC-Vienna patrons).

Comment by Michael Perkins

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:23:47 EDT

The silver line will likely help me and any rider headed inbound from East Falls Church or closer. That's most of the orange line ridership if I'm no mistaken. Rewarding Arlington with more trains for its concentrated development near Metro seems like a good idea.

Comment by Jasper

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:13:47 EDT

@ Matt: Thanks for the clarification. And quite frankly, I don't believe running everything in 8 cars will help. The current demand is so much larger than the space, that adding a few extra cars won't help significantly.

Too bad "our" politicians (and WMATA leaders) are uncapable, unwilling and too clueless to get things going.

The silver line will only make things busier.

Comment by dcpatton

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:50:26 EDT

Nice analysis. All the more disturbing for Orange Line riders once the Silver line opens for business.

Comment by Rob

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:42:19 EDT

so based on this analysis, it would seem the most *crowded* segment in the system would be Courthouse-Rosslyn, since it has only 3/5 of the trains carrying the load, compared to red line and blue-orange segments.

And I'll also echoReid's comments that there can be a big difference on Orange between 8:00am and 8:20am

Comment by Matt Johnson

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:42:08 EDT

@Reid,
If you only look at Entries + Exits, Union Station is the busiest. Since Metro officially doesn't track which routes people use to travel through the system, they can't tell where people transfer, so those people who transfer aren't counted as having been to the stations.

According to my model, almost 30,000 people transfer at Metro Center in the AM Peak alone - and are therefore not counted, since they don't pass through the faregates. Union Station only has 23,000 Entries and Exits, more than any other station, but there's no inter-line transferring there.

If you didn't see yesterday's post, I talk about station busy-ness therein. http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post.cgi?id=4068

Comment by Reid

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:37:02 EDT

Having regularly commuted on the Orange and Red lines, my experience was that the Orange line was much worse. Maybe not so much in terms of crowding, but getting stuck in a tunnel 3-4 times between stations is SOP on the Orange line and infrequent on the Red.

Of course, the real way to control the amount of congestion you face is to ride slightly off peak. I find the difference between crowding at 8:00 vs. 8:20 to be huge. This is another reason why they should introduce more bands to the peak fares.

Finally, I keep seeing that Union Station is the busiest station in the system, but I just have a hard time seeing that. It never seems remotely as crowded or busy as Metro Center gets, even after a intercity train arrives.

Comment by Matt Johnson

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:12:23 EDT

@Jasper,
During peak periods, WMATA operates 8 8-car consists on the Red Line, 7 8-car trains on the Orange Line, and 7 8-car sets on the Green Line. All other trains in the system are 6 cars in length.

That's a far cry from "most", however.

However, that said, this analysis was not really about crowding so much as it was about demand. There is clearly greater demand for Orange Line trains, but according to my analysis, not a huge preference. I'm sure the Blue Line, just like all the other lines that close to Downtown, is fairly crowded.

But, the main point of the statement of mine which you quoted was to point out that at the most-used portion of the line, Orange Line trains are already coming into that segment from the more popular route, which means that in comparison to the Red Line, Orange Line riders probably do have a bit to complain about.

But yes, downtown capacity is badly needed - for all the lines. More 8-car operation will help, but there are obstacles to that, too.

Comment by Jasper

Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:58:01 EDT

At Rosslyn, 65% of inbound riders are on the Orange Line, but only 60% of trains are on the Orange Line.

Did you account for train length? I know most orange trains at 8 cars, but I don't think all blue trains are.

So whereas there may be unused capacity, it does not mean that blue trains are less crowded.

However, aside from my pet-peeve, the analysis shows clearly that we need another line downtown, mostly parallel to the orange/blue tunnel.