In my youth, I was one of the 84% who are non-skaters, and never really thought much about skate parks, until I lived in Ithaca, NY, a town that the Utne reader proclaimed to be America's most progressive town sometime in the late '90s. A stake park was in the works, not that far from where I lived at the time and pretty close to a senior citizen retirement apartment complex.

I became irate upon reading a letter to the editor from the residents' association of the apartment complex--they concocted all sorts of objections to the skate park, among which were the fear that skaters would rush dangerously across the major street to go to the grocery store on the other side. The other objections were equally poorly thought out. It occurred to me that it's too easy to stop advocating for children once the flow of refrigerator-suitable art stops. The potential skate park users were the ones whose futures seemed so precious a few years ago, but suddenly are supposed to disappear for a dozen years or so once they need some independence.

So ever since then, I've thought skate parks were a good idea. The one in Ithaca did get built. Good luck with this one.

by thm on Nov 25, 2009 10:40 am • link • report

The park in Denver has a pretty small footprint. Less than the 1 to 3 acres that this writeup makes it out to be. Also, Denver isn't considered to be Midwest. The condo prices are inline with Colorado real estate prices.

It should also be noted that the skate park is easily accessible via trails and public transportation.

by wd on Nov 25, 2009 10:54 am • link • report

As a former econ professor who lamented my students' inability to do math, let me point out:

In points 2 and 3, you mean MULTIPLY not divide. Multiplying 17,737 by 16% (0.16) gives you 2838. If you were to divide it, your result would be more than 110,000.

by rdhd on Nov 25, 2009 11:17 am • link • report

Id rather have kids on skateboards than vandalizing private and public property like that a$$hole Borf.

They need a place to skate, and towns and cities should encourage them.

Also- bike racers need velodromes- so that they are not on the streets pretending to be cars.

If the bike racers have some nice and large velodromes, they will not have to use roads, and will also start to edge out of the activism business of making all bicycle policy for everyone else- as they do now.

Give them what they really need so that they leave the rest of us , many of whom are practical everyday utilitarian cyclists, in peace.

by w on Nov 25, 2009 11:40 am • link • report

As a 48 y.o. mom and skateboarder in Silver Spring, who has spent the past year skating with and building relationships with the kids who skate in this area, it has been incredibly depressing to hear their frustrations on an almost-daily basis, and to also regularly hear about and see how much of a positive impact skating has on their lives, while also seeing them get kicked out from one spot to the next (and when I'm with them, I'm getting kicked out too.)

It has been a very lonely battle trying to advocate for these kids, and Dan's post represents the first time someone who is listened to in our community (that definitely ain't me) has forcefully, persuasively, and publicly argued in favor of a full skatepark.

As an adult it's easy for me to go other places to skate -- I can get on a Metro and go anywhere to skate. But teenagers want to be with and skate with their friends, and so they keep going back to the same lousy, illegal, unsafe spots hoping they'll get a little bit of skating in before being chased out. It's a ridiculous game of cat and mouse that comes with huge costs to our community -- it costs in damage to property, in marginalizing and alienating our kids, and in police time when they're called to chase away skaters, rather than focusing on actual crime.

by Skateboard Mom on Nov 25, 2009 11:43 am • link • report

Sounds like somebody's running for the coolest Mom of the Year award. Good on ya SM!

I've always thought it was awesome to see Freedom Plaza filled with teens every night with their boards. And not for nothing, it's about the most racially integrated social scene that I regularly see. How awesome would it be to hold a skate festival with a gigantic half pipe right on Freedom Plaza?

I recall reading something many years ago about how DC actually played an important role in the early development of skating. I think it had something to do with pioneering the use of polyurethane wheels.

"Urethane Baby!" - Johnny Rad

by Reid on Nov 25, 2009 12:05 pm • link • report

Skateboard Mom ... awesome!

One question, though.

"As an adult it's easy for me to go other places to skate -- I can get on a Metro and go anywhere to skate."

Last time I checked, teenagers were allowed to use Metro, too. I'm not sure I understand this statement.

by mccxxiii on Nov 25, 2009 12:27 pm • link • report

None of you people sound like you have been or currently are skateboarders.

Just because you build a park doesn't mean you will contain the skateboarders in one area, and keep them off the streets.

What will happen is the park will be a gathering place for skaters. And that in turn will only increase the # of skaters in the local area. It will make it worse.

And putting an inaccessible, unmaintained ill thought out skate park in the middle of the city (like DC did on Rhode Island) doesn't work either.

The skate action is @ Freedom Plaza and by the monuments, where there are natural things to skate.

Think it through.

How will they get to the park itself?

They will skateboard.

And every route from the Metro/Bus Stop to any proposed skate park will be via the streets and sidewalks.

Much of the landscape on the way to the park will be skate-able.

Planter box?
Steps?
Handrail?
Bench?
Painted Curbs?
Ramps for the handicapped/deliveries?

^^^all of these scream to the skateboarder, "skate me".

Skateboarding is not like a traditional sport (if you even want to call it a sport, X-games notwithstanding).

You don't need a special field, nor are there any rules.

You just need your skateboard and some concrete/cement/asphalt.

If you watch skate board videos, you will see what attracts skateboarders, and what they find attractive.

At that point you will understand that trying to cordon off skateboarders like you would basketball players is pretty much impossible...unless of course you want to spread sand/gravel all over your downtown.

By all means do build a skatepark, but don't do it to "contain" the problem.

by anonymous frustrated lawyer on Nov 25, 2009 1:50 pm • link • report

Thank you Johnny Rad and mccxxiii!

Johnny you're absolutely right, skateboarding's an incredibly integrated social scene, and I'm also constantly amazed by how little fighting and arguing I see when I'm with a group of skaters.

And yeah, teenagers can ride the Metro (and we often do ride it together, i.e., when going into DC to skate), but they tend to have VERY limited money as these days a whole lot of skaters are minorities and poor (not that all minority skaters are poor, but a lot of the skaters I know are.)

But beyond money I think the bigger issue is the desire to skate with the people you know. Silver Spring skaters are like a family -- some of them have said that, and it's easier, for instance, to roam around Silver Spring checking the usual spots for other skaters, than to go all the way into DC and maybe not find anyone they know. And also, these days teens are hyper-aware of the dangers of moving through 'hoods' other than their own -- you never know what you'll run into, even on the Metro.

by Skateboard Mom on Nov 25, 2009 2:01 pm • link • report

Thank you for the clarification!

I should point out that ...

a) I'm not really bothered by kids skateboarding in public. I always like to stop and watch and be impressed with the athleticism and the fearlessness. But I understand that what's okay if there are just a few kids skating can quickly get out-of-hand if too many show up.

Also, I know we have to have rules because you can't just arbitrarily go around on some days and run people off whenever you feel like it or they "look sketchy" to somebody. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

b) Skateboard Mom, I seriously am jealous. I am younger than you (though not by a whole lot) and I have frequently had flashes of thinking that it would be cool to learn how to skateboard. But they were *very* brief flashes, followed by long, intense moments of "Are you insane? Do you realize how old you are?!" Good for you for not listening to your inner downer the way I do.

by mccxxiii on Nov 25, 2009 2:16 pm • link • report

To mccxxiii, for me, one of the most powerful arguments Dan makes in his post is this:

"Give these kids a prominent place in the community and they'll show it respect. Push them aside and they'll act out..."

Yes, some people do judge skaters for simply looking 'sketchy'...but there is, at times, some antisocial behavior. But I've been saying for some times that if you continually marginalize any group of people they're going to feel alienated and at least some of them are going to act out.

We used to have an area that was nothing but a half-block's worth of flat pavement in the middle of downtown, where skaters were allowed to skate on weekends. It was such a small thing to give to these kids, but it made a HUGE difference in their lives -- making them feel safe downtown (they don't feel safe now, roaming the streets in search of other skaters), and by getting to skate in such a central location, there were lots of people who would stop and watch, taking pictures, videotaping...just generally appreciating what these kids do (which is hard as hell.)

And when we had that, there was a lot less antisocial behavior, and property damage in the area was almost nonexistent. There's lots of property damage now (because we don't have a single legal place to skate), and skaters don't feel safe, and they no longer feel like a part of the community.

And don't be jealous of me -- I am crazy to be skating at my age, but it's just SO much fun :-)

by Skateboard Mom on Nov 25, 2009 2:53 pm • link • report

@ Skateboard Mom

Speaking of this another example would be in front of the MLK library at first it was a concrete area with grass and tress and is now a street I remember people use to go there and skate and now where do they skate all around the area.

If we try to solve a problem we need to solve the problem where the problem is at; not try to move the problem some where else, shifting the burden etc.

As for antisocial behavior we have that all the time in the city and surrounding areas and nothing is done about it why single out one particular group (skaters)

Some of it is because of people not dressing the norm (goths)and discriminating against them

drunks are antisocial and we don't seem to do a damn thing about that we have people making loud noise, scream running in the street etc,

all the people going to and from clubs

the people leaving sporting games closing streets for them etc we didn't do it before the game why after make them follow the damn law and act accordingly

all these folks need to be judge to than.

by kk on Nov 25, 2009 3:31 pm • link • report

kk I agree with you that it's completely unfair to judge skaters as antisocial, and when you treat people badly on a regular basis, (as skaters often are) you can't really be surprised when some of them start behaving badly.

When skaters have good places to skate, I don't see any bad behavior, and in fact I see much better behavior than from most any large group of teens -- I see much more cooperation, more peacefulness, and more acceptance of people who are different.

And if we're talking about large groups of teen male athletes, I would NEVER want my 13 y.o. daughter to be in a large group of teen football players, for instance. But I feel completely safe (and so does she) if she's among a large group of boy skaters.

by Skateboard Mom on Nov 25, 2009 7:31 pm • link • report

I'll design that park, pro bono. Skaters are always being forgotten or given a bad public image and I am tired of it.

by chuck on Nov 25, 2009 9:29 pm • link • report

Oh my, Chuck...I saw your site -- just amazing.

I hope he'll correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Dan Reed is an architect by training, but that he does not currently work as one (although he does have a very good job.) It would be awesome if you two could get together on that.

I really hope something happens with Dan's idea because it's really, really bad for skaters in our area right now. The problem is not only the lack of a legal place to skate, but a very intense anti-skater vibe, and skaters are not just getting kicked out but also getting cursed out and threatened with bodily harm on a regular basis, and getting citations banning them from public streets, for skating in illegal spots.

Some of my young skater friends sometimes do dumb things, and sometimes skate in places they just shouldn't be in, but when you take away every legal option, it becomes hard for people like me who do have some influence, to convince them not to skate in the few places they can go.

by Skateboard Mom on Nov 26, 2009 12:01 am • link • report

In nearly every comment one thing seems to ring true- the kids are skating downtown. When the City put this to bid they requested steel modular ramps but I can assure you that this method will do little or nothing to satisfy the problem. These types of ramps are NOT the solution to the kids skating downtown, they skate there because of social stimulation, natural obstacles and the challenges of concrete terrain. Giving them a playing field of steel ramps is like telling basketball players to practice on a tennis court... possible, yes but very unrewarding without a hoop.

My company proposed to build a concrete plaza similar to downtown simply because of the research I did on the area and the problems you have. Concrete is the answer and I don't mean prefab... build a project that is similar to the downtown spots and that allows kids to hang out and be with their friends and please, let's not forget our own time as a youth when we were confused, misguided and under-directed... we were no different than these kids, at least I wasn't...

Tom Noble
Who Skates since 1987

by Concrete Advocate on Nov 26, 2009 9:06 am • link • report

Oh, I do also want to mention that although small, the skate spot proposed here is large enough. Many, many communities have similar square footage and although they can be crowded the kids simply learn the times when it's quiet. That's not to say that nearly every community could use two, three or more Skate Spots but at least embrace the first one and let the kids show they can handle it.

by Concrete Advocate on Nov 26, 2009 9:09 am • link • report

Tom, the skaters and I did embrace the plans for the Woodside Skate Spot. We supported it in every way possible, and about 30 skaters showed up for a community meeting. We want a legal skate spot badly, and just last night a bunch of skaters were telling me how happy they would be to even have some flat ground and a box -- that they won't get kicked out from.

But when you say it's large enough...it's large enough for SOME kids to skate, sure. But it's not large enough to keep loads of kids from skating where they're skating now...in very unsafe, illegal places. That wasn't going on when we had a legal spot a year ago. It was just a half-block's worth of flat pavement, but it was legal. And it could support a whole lot more kids that the proposed Woodside Skate Spot.

And what Dan is saying in his blog is that based on the data, this community really needs a skatepark the size of a Target. I seriously doubt that will happen, but what Dan suggested -- an entire floor of a parking garage, would be like a dream come true for these kids. I know -- I talk to them every day, and I skate with them all the time.

by Skateboard Mom on Nov 26, 2009 9:58 am • link • report

Oh, don't think for a moment that I disagree with the need for more and more legal skate terrain. When baseball diamonds only outnumber Skateparks 10:1 we will begin to see a difference.

My comment was more toward the TYPE of park that will be built and whether or not it will draw kids from downtown. Prefab ramps will be but a drop of water in the Sahara, drawing only the younger and less-experienced skaters to the park... and they're not the problem!!

Time and time again Cities across the country say "we're buying steel ramps to keep the kids off the steps to City Hall", to which I respond "then why aren't you building the steps to City Hall instead of a bunch of noisy quarter pipes and ill-designed rails?" Although they'll skate the steel ramps if there's nothing else to skate but for how long?

Natural terrain rules the landscape right now and this is what kids want to skate. Keep up the fight, it will get easier...

-tom

by Concrete Advocate on Nov 26, 2009 10:09 am • link • report

As a part of the DC metro skateboard community for the past 11 years I feel like I have some insight into the issue. Here's the problem. The cities never take into consideration the skateboarders themselves. They feel like they can design a proper skatepark with the aid of professional architects, who for the most part know nothing about skateboarding. This is insane, they have no idea what attracts skateboarders these days to skatepark. No its not ok to just put a jump ramp a couple of benches and half pipe, then call it even. In the same sense this would be like if you let a 5 year old (who has only played putt putt a couple times) design a golf course. The community really needs to work with the skateboarders in that community and outline all the things that those skateboarders would want in their park.
A good plan would be to almost replicate the old Silver Spring Armory, with a few minor changes, added embankments, etc....This would definitely capture the skateboarder's attention and get them to come to the park. I would be more than willing to work with someone to make sure that this park gets done right.

by Andrew Feldt on Nov 26, 2009 1:03 pm • link • report

Andrew,
The problem is that the City asked a group of prefab vendors to design the park and already has a pile of proposals that they are reviewing right now and have for almost two months, they may be awarding it any day now. You may be too late but I would encourage you to contact the powers that be and ask to review the proposals. I think some of them might scare you certainly given the sentiment here.

by Concrete Advocate on Nov 26, 2009 1:13 pm • link • report

Skateboard Mom, i appreciate everything you've done for us in the last year. if it wasnt for you this whole argument wouldn't have gone down and our voices wouldn't have even matter. and to everybody here cheering us on i thank you guys and i hope you help us all with the end of this doochebaggery and we get what we want. what we do is not a crime, it's a lifestyle. if you have a problem deal with it. i mean im not trying to seem disrespectful but im tired of being harassed. skating is the one thing thats kept me out of trouble for the last two years and i love it. im sure many people say such and such and that skating isn't a real profession but think about it. a teachers annual salary is between $25-30,000. most professional skaters make that in a matter of 2 months so who's the real winner in all this? the reason people skate is to get their thoughts out of their minds and escape reality. we love what we do. im pretty sure i've been babbling on about random things but look skating is our life and skateboard mom has stuck by us through all this and i just want to thank her. she's more of a mother to me than my own mom and i love her. Thank You Skateboard Mom and i hope to see you this weekend and to everybody reading please help us out.

by Terc on Nov 27, 2009 10:40 pm • link • report

@ Terc, I love you too, so much, and as a mother, it's extremely difficult seeing you and the rest of our skaters being treated so badly, so often. To know what kind of person you are, and to know the consideration that you deserve to have -- it's just depressing, having tried so hard for an entire year to get community leaders to pay attention to these issues, and having so little success in doing that.

And this is why I'm so incredibly thankful to Dan for writing this blog post. I just can't thank him enough.

You know all of the promises that have been made (and broken.) How when we first lost Ellsworth, we were supposed to get an area behind Whole Foods. That never happened. Then we were supposed to have the alley beside the DTSS security office. That DID happen -- for all of 2 weeks, before it was taken away. Then we were told we might get the pavement between Whole Foods and Hollywood Video. That never happened. And then we were supposed to have this big, exciting skateboarding event downtown. That never happened. Then we were told we're going to get the space where the library is now when that's torn down. Not gonna happen. Then we were supposed to get the TINY skate spot in Woodside. And now I seriously question if that's gonna happen.

And all the while I'm watching you and all of our skaters being harassed, kicked out, cursed out, threatened, grabbed, and banned from public streets. This isn't right. None of this is right. You and all of our skaters are valuable members of our community, and what you're asking for is so very little. And our community, which claims to care about kids, needs to start actually caring about kids. Your life, your welfare, your safety, your goals, your dreams...they matter. YOU matter.

by Skateboard Mom on Nov 27, 2009 11:33 pm • link • report

@ Andrew Felt and Concrete Advocate, I'm sure you guys are familiar with Mt. Rainier Skatepark. Even though it's small (6,500 square feet) that seems to be the one skatepark in the DC, MD, VA area that skaters seem to universally love. And that park was designed by a teenager -- a young man named Patrick Britton. That park is the manifestation of his dream, and he pushed and fought for it for 6 years. And I've seen pro skaters from across the country skate there and love it.

I don't discount the need for trained architects to be involved with designing skateparks, but it's absolutely critical for actual skaters to be involved too. I've seen pictures of "skate spots" that are pretty much functionally useless, where there's not enough run-up space to do tricks, or not enough landing space where needed, or where the flow of a park makes it impossible to skate a decent line.

@ Concrete Advocate, the civic association that represents the neighborhood by the park has sent a letter to the Parks Department requesting that the project be delayed "at minimum" until spring 2010. In that letter they also asked for answers to 17 categories of questions, with most categories having several questions each.

They even asked how Parks had concluded that a skate spot was the best use of that space, as opposed to other uses, such as a dog park. The construction delay was granted, and I'm not convinced this skate spot is actually going to be built.

by Skateboard Mom on Nov 27, 2009 11:53 pm • link • report

I'm looking at Mt Rainier. Compared to a lot of the other parks I've seen, this is a guideline for how the edge of a large park should visually interact with the surrounding area. If a ring of trees, flowers, 'benches', 'railings', stairs, etc are usable by both skaters and non-skaters, and they give way in the unseen center to some ramps, pipes, and maybe a pool... I don't see how one can complain, stylistically. From the POV of an automobile or "get off my lawn" type, it's just a park. From the POV of a skater, it's one big playground.

Now let's imagine that they had done this for The Turf, and in the winter the depressed skate area was frozen into an ice rink.

by Squalish on Nov 28, 2009 12:52 pm • link • report