Have you ever tried to park in that area of Bethesda at night or on a weekend? Even when the meters are in effect, it is an absolute nightmare, there are simply too few spaces. Bravo to MoCo for doing something to improve the area - If we can't get enough people in there to shop/work/play etc., what's the point?

by Local on Nov 30, 2009 2:06 pm  

that is why I never take a car to Bethesda even if I have a good reason for going there. I take the Metro or bike out along that Capitol Cresent trail.It is a lot easier. Plus- I can carry lodes of stuff on my bicycle if I want to take it back into DC.

Who needs a damn car anyway?

by w on Nov 30, 2009 2:23 pm  

While a noble gesture, the idea of going online to print out my metro riding history, and then sending it in all on the promise of eventually receiving a $1.35 check is not my idea of a smooth system. I'd be surprised if many people bothered.

by Reid on Nov 30, 2009 3:00 pm  

@Reid, you got it. But they can market it and I bet that it draws some people who wouldn't normally show up. If Andersonville experiences a 5 percent jump in sales b/c of the promo and of that only 4 percent redeem the transit/parking benefit, then the city not only sells more crap, they also collect more parking revenues.
captcha is 'Chicago,' btw

by JTS on Nov 30, 2009 3:19 pm  

At least the new portions of St. Charles could have interconnected streets, not cul-de-sacs, and shopping that is accessible by walking from houses. That would be some progress.

by Steve on Nov 30, 2009 3:37 pm  

The Bethesda Parking District runs a surplus that is used to fund, among other things, the Bethesda 8 Trolley, and road/sidewalk maintenance in the Bethesda CBD (why Bethesda CBD is so much better maintained than Ballston or Rosslyn). Parking spaces can make the County money, if done right. You only have to go to Bethesda Row on a Friday or Saturday evening, even daytime, to see that the parking situation is horrendous. The Betheda-Elm garage is undersized and poorly designed. Ideally, that would have been the major garage placed underground. But a new garage on Lot 31 will rectify the county's past mistakes with adequate parking for Bethesda Row, CCT users, and even Purple Line riders. You could consider this a multi-modal garage becuase of the users it would serve. Bethesda needs this garage in its full form, not some half-assed version like the current Bethesda Row garage.

by Cyrus on Nov 30, 2009 4:05 pm  

7 stories underground? $80,000 per space? Automated above-ground parking garages, even small inefficient automated parking garages spread throughout the city of Bethesda, are significantly cheaper than that. The time, energy, air filtration, construction expenses, and other costs pile up the deeper you go in a conventional garage. In an automated underground parking garage, all you're looking at is the digging - and you can fit 3x as many cars down there for the same size hole. I think this is a case where the nebulous costs of the robotics are obviously much less than the price of a conventional garage.

Automated parking doesn't suffer from the "Top floor empty" phenomenon noted in the PDF - 1000 spaces means 1000 spaces, not 300 that people are willing to circle around to get to.

Aside from that, $80 million would be enough for a significant chunk of another Metro station. How many cheaper spaces and how much TOD could we plunk down at a Woodmont station, where Woodmont intersects with 355?

by Squalish on Nov 30, 2009 4:13 pm  

Cyrus, the big kicker to the parking garage is its expense. It is expensive because it is currently planned to be SEVEN STORIES DEEP. That is a huge garage. That is more parking than what's available for both Nationals Park and the Verizon Center.

The extreme depth is what makes the parking so incredibly expensive. While I would be against it, I could see a reasonable plan involving replacing the surface lot with a comparable lot under the new development. No one will go beneath the first, or maybe the second level. I guarantee you that that the lower three levels would never be used. How many women would feel comfortable going that far into the ground into a parking garage? Anecdotally, the ones I brought it up with felt negatively about it.

That's just a lot of money to spend on something that won't be used. We should have learned from the District's mistake in Columbia Heights. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. By Einstein's definition, this proposal as it currently exists is insane.

by Cavan on Nov 30, 2009 4:13 pm  

From the NYT in 2003:

IN Baltimore, Ashbourne Properties is considering Mr. Haag's Robotic Parking system for a proposed three-building apartment complex that has street access only 60 feet wide. ''It is the only way we could provide on-site parking -- and we are happy to have the option,'' said Ashbourne's president, Crispin Etherington.

''The price we have been quoted is $22,000 per space, when conventional parking costs about $15,000 per space. We are studying the economics of our project, and the Baltimore market before deciding which way to go.''

Another developer, David Barry of the Applied Companies in Jersey City, said his company recently decided against automated parking for a 12-story apartment structure going up in that city based on cost, and also the general reluctance of lenders to underwrite ''something so new, and untested.''

Mr. Haag also noted that being on the cutting edge can cause problems for conservative lenders. In his view, the ongoing tests of the structural strength and reliability of the Hoboken garage being done to satisfy the construction bonding company are ''really overdoing it.''

But as developers in many metropolitan areas find themselves scrapping over sites they would have considered unbuildable even a year or two ago, Mr. Denda said, automatic parking garage proposals are increasingly coming into play -- and familiarity with the issues they raise will rise.

The four-level automatic garage in Washington, beneath the Summit Grand Parc, occupies a space measuring 60 by 106 feet -- smaller than many suburban yards. It is 32 feet floor-to-ceiling -- shorter than many power poles.

The Hoboken garage is situated in the middle of a block on a narrow street with metered spaces on both sides and is built on land that required considerable environmental cleanup.
Mr. Haag said that if a ramped garage could even have been built on the Hoboken site -- which is questionable in his view -- it would have provided only 95 spaces, compared with 324, and construction costs would have run close to $30,000 per space, compared with $20,000.

by Squalish on Nov 30, 2009 4:20 pm  

Even if Bethesda really does need an 1,100-space parking garage, seven stories deep -- is this really the best thing Montgomery County has to spend $80 million on, right now?

by Miriam on Nov 30, 2009 4:26 pm  

If Bethesda wants to keep growing, eventually it might think about rezoning at least a block into the single-family homes strangling the CBD. Maybe three hundred residents take up the same amount of space as thirty thousand do next door - which is why this insanity is even considered.

Hell, they even have eminent domain if they want to build a public parking garage.

by Squalish on Nov 30, 2009 4:26 pm  

Cavan writes: How many women would feel comfortable going that far into the ground into a parking garage?

Like a good progressive, he throws the women's liberation under the bus by assuming that they can't fend for themselves.

by MPC on Nov 30, 2009 4:29 pm  

those people in complexes with garages who do not have any use for the parking should be allowed to place storage containers on the parking spot. There is a big need for storage spaces in DC and the area and this would serve an unmet need .parking lot facilities need to be designed with modular / multiple uses in mind- and should not be thought of in terms as permenant parking only options. Developers and real estate people need to start planning for the real future and not just for the convienience of the more selfish people who are unwilling to walk or to use transit.
Also- the very best parking spots should always go to car or vehicular share, handicapped, elderly residents - or bicycle parking.

by w on Nov 30, 2009 4:31 pm  

MPC, I hadn't even thought of that at all when I read the proposal. A few (I know, purely anecdotal as I mentioned in my previous comment) women pointed it out. I hadn't seen it. I only mentioned it because that was what was said to me by a few (anecdotal) women.

by Cavan on Nov 30, 2009 4:44 pm  

Please, if you live in Ward 3 come to the next ANC meeting on the 10th, at 7:30 in St. Mary's Armenian Apostolic Church. Safeway seems to be caught off-guard by the calls for urban development, so getting support for that might revolutionize this project and Tenleytown's politics.

Fun fact

by Neil Flanagan on Nov 30, 2009 5:06 pm  

I can say with certainty that people thinking this parking won't be used, has never actually been in Bethesda from 5-9PM on any night, or Friday/Saturday. There is no parking.

"Gotcha" reporting really is the bailiwick of people who don't have much to say. "Ooo look, the top row of that parking garage isn't full, so the entire project is worthless". I'd like to know when that photo was taken. By the looks of the naked trees its either early spring or late fall. Since we know its dark at 4:30 then, this photo was most likely taken around noon. Not a very good indicator for the traffic that area gets.

by nookie on Dec 1, 2009 9:12 am  

I grew up in Iowa City, IA (university town, ~65,000 people when I lived there, 75 cent bus fair, 60 cent/hr parking) and downtown merchants there gave free parking/free bus passes with a certain sized purchase. The pass was the same for both, and they didn't expire, so we sometimes saved ours for later. Even the library gave out bus passes on certain days. The certificate was slightly larger than a business card and fed right into the dollar slot on the bus fare box. I thought it was a great way to encourage transit use, because you actually got more value for your pass if you used it on the bus.

by Beth on Dec 1, 2009 9:32 pm