The rendering of CityCenter only shows the part of the project south of I st. I presume the rest of the lot will be developed too?

by orulz on Dec 15, 2009 9:12 am • link • report

DC's cabs *are* iconic - iconically mismatched and iconically dilapidated.

by EdTheRed on Dec 15, 2009 9:13 am • link • report

We need someone to come up with an open API for real-time transit information. Google and Portland's Tri-met did this for schedule and routing information when they developed GTFS.

Either that or we need to agree on a standard that some agencies are already using.

by Michael Perkins on Dec 15, 2009 9:13 am • link • report

Let's worry about cab colors after we've ended some of the insane rules surrounding cabs in this area. For starters, all cabs should be hybrids. Secondly, all cabs should be able to pick up on street clients when returning from another trip in another jurisdiction. End the monopoly on Dulles. There should be one single fare system. Etc.

by Jasper on Dec 15, 2009 9:27 am • link • report

For starters, all cabs should be hybrids.

Who do you intend to pay for the switch?

by MPC on Dec 15, 2009 9:38 am • link • report

@ MPC: I don't care. Gas savings? Clients? How did NYC pay for it? Let's do the same. Why should I care? Why can't I just care about the massive polluting these guys cause by idling and driving around empty?

BTW: Where are the hybrid buses?

by Jasper on Dec 15, 2009 9:44 am • link • report

You really think that the Slate article suggested that Drive Thrus have passed their peak? I didn't get that from the reading. Seemed to me that the author focused more on them as a cultural phenomenon, paying specific attention to marginal cases (i.e., pedestrians suing drive thrus, etc.).

by JTS on Dec 15, 2009 10:01 am • link • report

How did NYC pay for it? Let's do the same.

The cab owners borrowed the money using the value of their taxicab medallions as collateral.

by cminus on Dec 15, 2009 10:09 am • link • report

Why target taxis? Just raise the gas tax across the board.

Of course, then people will just buy gas in Virginia or Maryland. Such is democracy....

by Eric F. on Dec 15, 2009 10:15 am • link • report

I know we don't like parking lots here for a number of reasons, but where will the low-cost bus services pickup and drop off without the old convention center parking lot?

by Tim on Dec 15, 2009 10:30 am • link • report

Where's the link to the Slate drive-thru article?

by Joey on Dec 15, 2009 10:38 am • link • report

Tim, I am sure a reasonable solution will be found...

by NikolasM on Dec 15, 2009 10:41 am • link • report

Joey: Oops, I've reinserted the link.

by David Alpert on Dec 15, 2009 10:52 am • link • report

Joey, here is the drive-through link:

http://www.slate.com/id/2238094

by Cavan on Dec 15, 2009 10:56 am • link • report

@Tim: As I recall, there were plans to incorporate the bus terminal into the new development. However, I have noticed that Boltbus now has some trips from the Greenbelt metro station which is definitely where I'm going to ride from next time I go to NYC. (It's 8 bucks cheaper and doesn't involve lugging your bags 3 or 4 blocks like that lame arrangement downtown.)

by Steve S on Dec 15, 2009 11:02 am • link • report

Now if Boltbus would drop off at the Newark or Journal Square PATH station (to save the 45 to 70 minutes queuing for the Lincoln Tunnel)...

by Steve S on Dec 15, 2009 11:05 am • link • report

Jasper asks Why should I care?

Because that sort of stuff is important. If you're told that your means of making a living (a petro taxicab) is no longer allowed, that's a pretty big deal.

My guess is that cabbies don't have large savings. Where will they come up with the means to take out a loan to buy a new car?

Either way, the cost will be passed onto the consumers, who will inevitably come to this website, complaining about how they have to pay higher fares.

While that may not be an issue for the regulars of this website, you should be aware of the fact that there are many poor people in the District. Obviously you enjoy the fact that the most poor will now have an even harder time getting around the area.

by MPC on Dec 15, 2009 11:12 am • link • report

My understanding of DC taxi policy is we have a lot of them and there isn't much of a cost to entry. The result is more taxis than a small city like DC needs. The taxi cab are all indy owned and aren't controlled by a few big chains. The taxi drivers like it that way, and fight anything that would increase the cost of entry (cc machines, hybrids, etc)

by charlie on Dec 15, 2009 11:22 am • link • report

DC Cabs should be safe, clean and competently operated. Then we can worry about iconic.

by Jacob on Dec 15, 2009 11:45 am • link • report

The question of uniformity was addressed in that total sham of a study that Graham put together a year or so ago. You know, the one that basically said that cabbies ought to be able to do whatever the hell they want and riders should just shut up.

They said that they shouldn't force one color because it would hurt those companies in DC that have build up a brand around their color. Frankly besides Diamond Cab, I can't think of another cab company that even has an identifiable look.

Hopefully that joke of a study will be disregarded due to Graham's cab bribery scnadal.

by Reid on Dec 15, 2009 12:12 pm • link • report

@ MPC: Poor people use the most expensive form of transit? That does not make sense.

By the way: I did not make any kind of statement on how to achieve the goal of only hybrid cabs. NYC gave everybody 5 years. That seems to be working. You could mandate all new cabs be hybrids. It does not matter.

Furthermore, I did not suggest that cabs should be outlawed.

by Jasper on Dec 15, 2009 12:42 pm • link • report

@ MPC: Because that sort of stuff is important.

On second thought, no. It does not have to be important. It depends what you value more important. The jobs of the cabbies, or the air that everybody breathes. The health of the many easily trumps the mechanics of the livelihood of the few. Cabbies are disproportional polluters. They may be expected to help cleaning up the mess they create.

@ Eric F: Sure gas taxes can go up. And they could go up for all jurisdictions. Or the Feds could tie the 18c/gal to inflation. I'm for it. But that's even more off topic than my remarks ;-)

by Jasper on Dec 15, 2009 12:54 pm • link • report

@ MPC: Because that sort of stuff is important.

On second thought, no. It does not have to be important. It depends what you value more important. The jobs of the cabbies, or the air that everybody breathes. The health of the many easily trumps the mechanics of the livelihood of the few. Cabbies are disproportional polluters. They may be expected to help cleaning up the mess they create.

@ Eric F: Sure gas taxes can go up. And they could go up for all jurisdictions. Or the Feds could tie the 18c/gal to inflation. I'm for it. But that's even more off topic than my remarks ;-)

by Jasper on Dec 15, 2009 12:54 pm • link • report

I cannot wait for that massive hole to be filled with some (hopefully) attractive and lively development and for 10th & I Streets to be reconnected. It is such a lifeless void in the urban fabric. Bolt & Mega can pick up/drop off on the street like they do in NYC and elsewhere. That lot is a hellish place to wait for the bus.

Looking at the satellite photo brought up another question that's been on my mind: why are some blocks (e.g. 1000 block NW) half the size of other blocks (900 block NW)?

by Matthias on Dec 15, 2009 1:44 pm • link • report

@Jasper, either way the consumer will get charged, which is actually probably a more fair way of doing it.

I presume that the presence of taxis result in a net loss in pollution, since if they didn't exist, many/most people who use them would use their own auto. So taxis are actually good for the enviroment.

by MPC on Dec 15, 2009 2:31 pm • link • report

I agree that taxis are probably good for the environment on net.

The happy middle ground is obvious: Grandfather existing cabs, but require new ones to be hybrids.

by BeyondDC on Dec 15, 2009 3:01 pm • link • report

Aren't new drive-thrus banned in Arlington? I thought I read that somewhere.

by sf on Dec 15, 2009 3:32 pm • link • report

I'll assume everyone that wants all new cabs to be hybrids really wants them to be used hybrids, similar to how most cabs are former personal or police vehicles today. New hybrid cars are by many measures no more 'green' than their compact peer. For one, they use, by far, more 'rare earth' metals (e.g., lithium) than any other vehicle in mass production today, and those metals that are extracted at an immense environmental cost. I have a hard time swallowing the argument that, on net, hybrids are greener than the average fuel efficient car of the same size.

So, I understand the spirit of what everyone is saying: cabs reduce the need for a POV, and can be even greener if they are hybrids. I, for one, would much rather see a bunch of Crown Vics that have 350,000 miles on them with another five years of useful life than a new fleet of hybrids. If we pass a law, I'd say we grandfather exisiting cabs, but require new ones to be of a certain efficiency, with that mileage requirement jacked up every five years. Let the cab owners decide whether or not to purchase a hybrid.

by JTS on Dec 15, 2009 3:44 pm • link • report

Poor people use the most expensive form of transit? That does not make sense.

Although the point is often overstated, there is some truth to the claim that taxi fare increases can generate a disproportionately serious problem for the poor.

In DC, housing prices are linked to mass transit access, especially Metrorail. As such, poorer people are more likely to live in areas with poor transportation options -- if they're lucky they may be able to get to and from work or other important appointments through some permutation of buses with schedules that may not mesh well, otherwise they may have to own a car but be unable to afford a new vehicle in good condition so they purchase a junker instead. If one day there's an unanticipated change in their schedule, or the junker breaks down, they may need a taxicab to get around, whereas better-off people are more likely to live in areas with redundant transportation options.

That said, it's easy to go overboard on this; it's an occasional expense, not a regular portion of the cost of living. But it can be filed under the general heading of "poverty tax".

by cminus on Dec 15, 2009 4:16 pm • link • report

CityCenterDC: More than 18 million housing units are vacant, office vacancy rates are around 16% and rising, and retail vacancy rates have hit new highs, over 10%. Who the hell is supposed to be moving into this development?

by Marian Berry on Dec 15, 2009 4:43 pm • link • report

Location, location, location. What does 18 million vacant housing units (obviously a national statistic) have to do with DC?

Furthermore, the developers are obviously betting on the future, not the present. If they start construction in 2011, earliest they'd be available would be 2013. Four years is a long time.

by Alex B. on Dec 15, 2009 4:55 pm • link • report

@JTS: New hybrid cars are by many measures no more 'green' than their compact peer. For one, they use, by far, more 'rare earth' metals (e.g., lithium) than any other vehicle in mass production today, and those metals that are extracted at an immense environmental cost.

Where did you get this mishmash of errors? Virtually none of the hybrids on the road today contain any lithium at all. And lithium is not a rare earth element. You've gotten some facts someone once told you all mixed up. Lithium is available in many places (can even be extracted from seawater) and lithium mining is not particularly bad for the environment. Some battery chemistries do use some rare earth elements (of which lithium is NOT one) that do have some significant environmental impacts from mining. But which of those will be most needed, and in what quantities, is very much an open question.

by David desJardins on Dec 15, 2009 6:21 pm • link • report

Fair enough. I equated lithium with hybrid batteries and apparently that is incorrect. My larger point still stands, though. There is no reason to require that all new cabs be hybrid when an equally efficient car - or pedicab! - would suffice (and at a lower price).

by JTS on Dec 15, 2009 6:32 pm • link • report

I agree it makes more sense to place a standard on fuel efficiency (and/or pollution levels) rather than the precise technology. In practice, though, the most efficient and least polluting cars in city driving are going to be hybrids, not just now but even more so in the future. Because regenerative braking makes a big difference in city traffic.

by David desJardins on Dec 15, 2009 7:52 pm • link • report

Four years is a long time.

Not during a depression.

by Nouriel Roubini on Dec 16, 2009 2:27 pm • link • report

@ MPC: So taxis are actually good for the enviroment.

That depends on your definition of good. If you put the bar low enough, I am sure you can get them in the 'good' column. But my car does not idle most of the day to keep me warm/cold. So, I think my car beats cabs. Cabs are surely better than helicopters though.

But hybrids would be better.

@ david desJardins: I agree it makes more sense to place a standard on fuel efficiency

YEAH! So finally, I can get with my civic and >30 mileage on the HOV lanes, while all those "hybrid SUVS" with a mileage <25 have to get off!

by Jasper on Dec 16, 2009 8:31 pm • link • report

Where are hybrids that get 25 mpg allowed into HOV lanes? In California, only hybrids that get 45 mpg can get a HOV sticker.

by David desJardins on Dec 16, 2009 8:43 pm • link • report

Given the obvious fuel advantages of hybrids as taxis, why don't taxi owners have incentives to buy them? Surely fuel is a substantial part of the cost of operating a cab.

by ah on Dec 16, 2009 8:43 pm • link • report

@ David: In Virginia. Everybody who bought a "hybrid" got special tags to get on the HOV lanes. Due to the popularity (and uselessness) the program has stopped.

@ ah: Hybrids are more expensive than the non-hybrid versions. It takes quite a while before you make that back. Estimating the age of the average DC cab parked in suburban Lorton, this should be a no-brainer. However, the lack of brains is a serious problem.

by Jasper on Dec 17, 2009 12:32 pm • link • report