Thanks for adding the info that should have been in Metro's press release. However does Metro establish bus shuttles for the above ground stations? Or will I just be stuck?

by Joshua Davis on Dec 18, 2009 4:06 pm • link • report

"Stranded" I think will be the operative word this weekend.

Metro makes no guaruntee that bus service will be available from the final station which is open.

It's all contingent on the weather.

by Matt Johnson on Dec 18, 2009 4:09 pm • link • report

since i can't seem to easily find this info on amtrak's site, i'll ask here:

anyone know what amtrak does in a massive snow event? i'm supposed to be leaving tomorrow at 7:30 from union station, heading south to GA. any idea what'll happen if the tracks between richmond and DC are under 2 feet of snow?

by IMGoph on Dec 18, 2009 4:11 pm • link • report

:(

by J.D. Hammond on Dec 18, 2009 4:11 pm • link • report

From what I know, they do run bus shuttles for the above-ground portions. I do have to take offense with the map for one reason though.

A former acquaitance who has lived here all their life once mentioned that she got caught in one of these mega storms and was taken off at Fort Totten. Since the lower level is half-underground and the "outside" portion is protected, I don't think there'd be that much of a problem terminating Green Line service there. There are a lot more provisions for shuttle buses to Union Station/Glenmont/Greenbelt from there too.

by Jason on Dec 18, 2009 4:15 pm • link • report

@IMGoph,
Amtrak is dependent upon the railroads it uses to run. In the past, snowstorms have disrupted Amtrak services, stranding passengers.

Seattle, one year ago: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2008-12-23-northwest-travel_N.htm

by Matt Johnson on Dec 18, 2009 4:18 pm • link • report

@Jason,
Feel free to take up any disagreement with the map with Metro. It's their map.

While Fort Totten's lower level is partially underground, snow could easily drift onto the tracks, and because they're below grade, cannot easily be removed.

by Matt Johnson on Dec 18, 2009 4:19 pm • link • report

Keeping the yellow line open solely for Pentagon to Crystal City, even if they are underground, seems rather pointless.

by Paul on Dec 18, 2009 4:23 pm • link • report

Haha I hope all you car-free transit losers enjoy not being able to get around for the next week.

by MPC on Dec 18, 2009 4:31 pm • link • report

@MPC; hey, as car-loving transit loser, have fun dealing with stupid mid-atlantic drivers who didn't spend their childhood doing donuts and learning to steer into the spin. And yes, I even have my snow tires on....

by charlie on Dec 18, 2009 4:38 pm • link • report

Have a good time in the car, eh? I have a car but am not counting on taking it anywhere this weekend. I have 47 rolls of toilet paper and 300 gallons of milk, so i should be fine until the thaw of 2010.

by Dan on Dec 18, 2009 4:39 pm • link • report

Second on the Pentagon-Crystal City portion. If Glenmont-Forest Glen isn't worth servicing, I can't see how the former is justified, even given the greater importance of Pentagon for the region's transit network.

And why even offer a "Blue Line" service at all?

by Reza on Dec 18, 2009 4:44 pm • link • report

snow?

I LOVE the snow

it is only the people that think that they need to own and drive cars that forget that there is a beautiful landscape and fun to be had in the wintertime .

Of course- I live inside the areas where Metro is going to be open. I made that choice just for this reason- so that I wouldnt have to spend all of my spare waking hours while not at the job driving to work and maintaining a car lifestyle.And the payoff is that I dont have to worry about adverse weather, and can actually enjoy the snow and have the time to enjoy it- since there is no 4 hour round trip commute like so many of my co-workers have chosen.

If I had to drive 4 hours every day, I probably would not like the snow, either.

by w on Dec 18, 2009 5:01 pm • link • report

another benefit of living in the city- almost all of our utility lines are underground- so we have far fewer power outages and problems associated with inclement weather.

by w on Dec 18, 2009 5:03 pm • link • report

Talking about 1982, on't forget what happened on Metro in the winter of 1982 (okay, in January, not December, but still) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Washington_Metro_train_derailment

That happened to be on the same day as a horrible snow storm, which caused: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Florida_Flight_90

The two fatal events happened within 30 minutes of each other, plus, the horrible snow meant that people were let out of work early, so the roads were all jammed.

Yeah, not a good day. Six years before I was born, though, so I don't say that having experienced it.

by Tim on Dec 18, 2009 5:04 pm • link • report

w, tell that to anyone north and west of RCP, where outages are legion.

Anyway, if I have nothing better to do I'm going to try to ride back and forth between Crystal City and Pentagon. All day for $1.35!

by ah on Dec 18, 2009 5:09 pm • link • report

This map can also double as a nuclear fallout shelter map!

by Eric F. on Dec 18, 2009 5:47 pm • link • report

I don't think this would be the worst storm since 1982.

They are predicting one foot this time. In 1996, we got three feet.

This storm would therefore be the worst storm since then.

by Jazzy on Dec 18, 2009 7:30 pm • link • report

DECEMBER storms!

Ok. Never mind.

by Jazzy on Dec 18, 2009 7:39 pm • link • report

This is really strange to me (someone who lived 5 years in Boston). Whenever a big one hits, the only train service that gets called off is a short streetcar section...because the road plows have issues. Tracks are never a problem. While buses get stuck in the snow, and the plows get stuck behind them, the trains are heavy enough to keep the snow away. What they do is run more frequent service to ensure that a train is coming by every 5 minutes to avoid any accumulation.

Ditto with commuter rail. While they own 4 snow plows, they havent been used since....2002? The trains are big enough to move the snow on their own.

When there is a blizzard, train service is the best way to get around because some roads become impassable.

(And when the temperature falls below 20 degrees, like yesterday, instead of storing trains in the yards theyre kept in tunnels whenever possible, and other sections of track have trains moving 24 hours so they dont freeze)

by J on Dec 18, 2009 7:42 pm • link • report

"This is really strange to me (someone who lived 5 years in Boston)"

It shouldn't be. This town is filled with self important idiots who think they might melt if they encounter a snowflake. Seriously - the grocery store was like something out of a disaster flick this afternoon.

by SNOW! Aieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! on Dec 18, 2009 8:37 pm • link • report

Speaking of 1982, and almost completely unrelated to this topic, it would be awesome to see a feature on here showing and comparing all the different Metro maps throughout the history of the system. The earliest map I have is a pocket map from the late '80s, pre-Green and (I think) Yellow lines. I'm sure someone out there has collected all of them.

by Jason on Dec 18, 2009 9:10 pm • link • report

This just goes to show that the region doesn't know how to handle snow (although the WMATA website, with its barrage of numbers, goes to great lengths to convince us otherwise). Places like Boston are used to it.

I'm wondering why the Blue line service from Rosslyn to Stad-Armory? Why not just make them all Orange (or Blue)? And why is the segment from Pentagon to Crystal City Yellow instead of Blue? Seems rather arbitrary. :-}

by Matthias on Dec 18, 2009 9:39 pm • link • report

The original green line route

Matter of fact why is the orange/blue above ground from the stadium parking lot to benning road + 34th street anyway why not just continue underground and come up for just the orange line.

When the system was built the blue line ended at stadium armory why didnt they continue underground when they were building the orangeline portion from there to atleast minnesota ave that way they could have served benning road, capitol hgts & maybe addision rd which is pretty covered when compared to the other outside stations before the extension the trains never went down the full platform they went enough for the train to fit which is the covered portion and just switched tracks in the tunnel as the portion beyond the station was a dead end.

by kk on Dec 18, 2009 10:12 pm • link • report

Matthias, while "not being used to it" may be an excuse for delayed plowing (and bus disruptions), it shouldn't be an excuse for rail, since the technology allows the trains to function. Metro shouldnt be concerned about keeping their trains safe and dry underground, they're in the business of transportation and should do everything possible to provide service to those who may be stranded.

Chicago is all elevated, anybody know if they have a snow schedule?

One note: In Boston (and I assume elsewhere) service has declined during storms because so many operators call in sick. Usually, this means bus runs are dropped in favor of rail runs.

by J on Dec 18, 2009 10:58 pm • link • report

Rail isn't an issue, but rail power is. Trams running via overhead wire don't have weather issues, but if snow drifts and covers the third rail, you've got issues. The thing with other cold-weather cities is that they've third rail heaters that prevent ice and snow build up. Since this weather is fairly rare in DC, the outdoor portions of the system were never installed with those heaters, thus the third rail can freeze up in the right conditions. Ice on the third rail means no contact, which means no power. To some extent, you can run trains often to keep the third rail free of ice, but that's not always going to be effective.

by Alex B. on Dec 18, 2009 11:18 pm • link • report

"Metro shouldnt be concerned about keeping their trains safe and dry underground, they're in the business of transportation and should do everything possible to provide service to those who may be stranded."

When the last big snowstorm hit (must have been about six years ago) Metro was hobbled for days. The railcars sit outside. Apparently there are some electronic components on the undersides of the cars, and those things suck in snow if it's a foot thick. The water then shorts everything out, rendering the cars inoperable.

For days Metro did not have very many railcars as they fixed the ones that sat outside in the snow. When the Monday morning quarterbacking was over, they decided that in the event of a really bad storm they might be better off cutting service to a bare minimum and stashing railcars in the tunnels. They also created that snow map, which I saw a lot in the years after that storm but have not seen recently.

I don't think there is a good choice that WMATA can make here.

by Omari on Dec 18, 2009 11:43 pm • link • report

stashing railcars in the tunnels

I'll bet that's why there's no service from Glenmont to Silver Spring, notwithstanding the tunnel.

by Steve S on Dec 18, 2009 11:53 pm • link • report

That Pentagon-Crystal City portion really does make zero sense, like you guys are pointing out. Likewise, Blue Line service is redundant and pointless.

Here's hoping they don't have to implement that map, though. I'm really not looking forward to figuring out how I'd have to get from Shady Grove to Medical Center. :(

by Justin..... on Dec 19, 2009 3:37 am • link • report

Considering we're already at 7 inches of snow here in Huntington, I don't expect Metro to stay "fully open" for much longer...

by Froggie on Dec 19, 2009 8:22 am • link • report

Can anyone remember if Metro has ever closed the underground stations due to snow? Trying to figure out if there's any chance of getting stranded if I travel from Union Station-Foggy Bottom this morning and need to come back around midnight tonight.

by JL on Dec 19, 2009 8:29 am • link • report

Okay. But does anyone know how the trains are going to get to the stations on the map? If trains are coming from the West Falls Church rail yard, for example, why can they keep West Falls Church and East Falls Church open, at least?

by Max D. on Dec 19, 2009 9:03 am • link • report

DC METRO: As reliable as a 1963 MG.

by JAY on Dec 19, 2009 9:30 am • link • report

JL:

I seem to recall that Metro closed all operations - including underground - for a day during a major snowstorm in the '90's. I think it was one of the March monsters.

They couldn't get their people in to work to service and operate the trains.

By the by, I wonder how many people won't be able to get back into Washington from the Global Warming Conference because of the massive snowstorm and freezing weather.

And I think it's a bit unfair to blame DC and Metro for not having the same response to snowstorms that Boston or Chicago or Montreal might have. Those cities need a major snow response infrastructure to survive. Here, we simply can't afford to spend scarce tax dollars to build systems and buy equipment for events that happen every couple of years. Last time I checked, Metro was financial trouble even when the sun was shining. Cut them a break.

by Mike Silverstein on Dec 19, 2009 9:58 am • link • report

I think the Pentagon-Crystal City bit is there for the convenience of DOD/DOD Contractors.

CAPTCHA Oracle says: Hunting to

by dcseain on Dec 19, 2009 10:56 am • link • report

@Max D:
Metro will not be able to use its rail yards if snowfall exceeds 8 inches. The service on the underground portions of lines will be done with trains already in the subway. They will not return to the yard at the close of the day, and new trains will not be brought into service.

Many trains will be stored in tunnels to keep them from being trapped in the rail yards or damaged through snow intake.

None of Metro's rail yards are underground. Only the Glenmont rail yard feeds directly into a subway, but it itself is not underground. Largo has room east of the station for underground train storage.

by Matt Johnson on Dec 19, 2009 11:04 am • link • report

The terminus of the Red Line in Glenmont is connected UNDERGROUND to the above ground Glenmont Rail Yard. No reason why they couldnt keep Glenmont-Forest Glen service going no matter how bad the storm. None of the three stations have escalators exposed to the elements either.

This may be DC's opportunity to explore its underground cities. Four malls and a major downtown department store on the Metro system are directly connected underground to the stations. You can say you were shopping during the blizzard of '09.

by Cyrus on Dec 19, 2009 11:08 am • link • report

Implemented as of 1 p.m. No Metrobus service either. Woe to anyone out and about.

by Adam F on Dec 19, 2009 12:21 pm • link • report

Yep. You've got 37 minutes. All Metrobus service will be shut down, too:

http://www.wmata.com/about_metro/news/PressReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=4196

by Alex B. on Dec 19, 2009 12:22 pm • link • report

Is there a logical reason why glenmont, wheaton and forest glen are closed because if pentagon, crystal city & pentagon city are open they should be also that is discrimination.

by kk on Dec 19, 2009 12:26 pm • link • report

NOOOOOOOOO *cries*

by Justin..... on Dec 19, 2009 12:28 pm • link • report

Wait wait wait, define "no metrobus". I thought they were using Metrobus to shuttle people to the closed above ground stations.

by Justin..... on Dec 19, 2009 12:31 pm • link • report

Justin, read Metro's press release. I'll cut and paste it here:

Metrorail trains will stop serving above-ground stations at 1 p.m. today, Saturday, December 19, due to heavy snowfall that is covering the electrified third rail, which is situated eight inches above the ground. The third rail must be clear of snow and ice because it is the source of electricity that powers the trains. Metro officials believe that by 1 p.m. the exposed third rail will be covered by snow. All Metrobus and MetroAccess service also will stop at 1 p.m. because roadways are quickly becoming impassable.

Metro has 86 stations and 106-miles of track. Forty-seven stations along 50.5 miles of track are located underground and 39 stations along 55.5 miles of track are above ground. All 39 above-ground stations will close at 1 p.m. The modified underground service will operate as follows:

Yellow Line – Service from Pentagon to Crystal City only
Red Line – Service between Medical Center and Union Station only
Orange Line – Service between Ballston and Stadium-Armory only
Green Line – Service between Fort Totten and Congress Heights only
Blue Line – Service between Ballston (extended to Blue Line)
and Stadium-Armory only

“We have been monitoring the snowfall and the forecast closely since last night,” said Metro General Manager John Catoe. “We ran trains throughout the night to keep the tracks clear of snow and ice, but we are fast-reaching the point where we risk trains becoming stranded on snow-covered tracks. To prevent that from happening, we will cease above-ground operations at 1 p.m.”

The announcement was made at 11:45 a.m. to give customers some advance notice.

“These are unusual circumstances with all forecasts calling for record-levels of snowfall. They are calling for more than a foot of snow, and we cannot and will not operate in an unsafe environment,” Catoe said. “Our first responsibility is for the safety of our customers and employees.”

Once trains are shifted to underground travel, some maintenance trains without passengers in them will travel on the exposed tracks to try to keep the snow and ice clear of the tracks. These deicer trains will aid in the return of service because once the snow stops falling, it will be easier to resume above-ground service if snow has been cleared a few times.

The underground Metrorail stations will remain open until 3 a.m., the normal closing time for a Saturday night.

Rail customers are encouraged to use station elevators from the street level into and out of the stations as they are safer than escalators in this type of heavy snowfall.

All Metrobus service will halt at 1 p.m. Metrobus service ceased in Maryland and Virginia at about 11:30 a.m. as vehicles were not able to drive on snow-covered roads.

MetroAccess will not start any new trips after 1 p.m. due to poor road conditions. If someone took a trip prior to 1 p.m., their round trip home will be honored.

MetroÂ’s customer call center also will close at 1 p.m. today.

Metro started the weekend with 2,200 tons of bulk rock salt to treat Metro roadways and parking lots and 18,000, 50-pound bags of de-icer for treating sidewalks and platforms. Hundreds of snow-trained employees and contractors have been working throughout the night and into today to treat snowy and icy surfaces at Metrorail stations including platforms, sidewalks and parking facilities.

Metro also is using “heater tape,” which has been installed on sections of track with significant grades/inclines and in critical areas in the rail yards. The heater tape is a cable clipped onto the electrified third rail that is turned on when temperatures dip below the freezing mark. It helps keep the third rail warm enough to prevent ice from forming.

by Alex B. on Dec 19, 2009 12:36 pm • link • report

Customer Service is closed now I called around 12:20 and got an message saying they were closed.

They need to get there s**t together; there phone system and website say two different things each should be using the same information to avoid confusing riders.

by kk on Dec 19, 2009 12:40 pm • link • report

Why is the Blue Line continuing to run at all? It will follow the same route as the Orange Line. Why not make all trains Orange? Won't this just cause more confusion when soemone gets on a Blue train and ends up in Ballston?

by James on Dec 19, 2009 12:41 pm • link • report

Does anyone know how do transit system operate in Russia, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Greenland & Iceland during this type of weather.

by kk on Dec 19, 2009 12:47 pm • link • report

kk,

In places where cold weather and snow is common, the third rail is equipped with permanent 'heating tape' which is basically an electrical coil that draws power and generates heat, keeping the third rail free of ice and snow. Combine the heaters with running trains (as Metro is doing) and you can operate in these conditions - not seamlessly, but it can be done.

by Alex B. on Dec 19, 2009 12:57 pm • link • report

@ Alex

What about buses; I've been to Greenland and im sure the snow was deeper than what we have now but iam not positive and they were running.

by kk on Dec 19, 2009 1:10 pm • link • report

Catoe fails again.

But a tunneling machine and start work to put these lines underground.

by Redline SOS on Dec 19, 2009 1:13 pm • link • report

It's all about equipment and experience. There are plenty of ski resort towns that get a lot more snow than this, but they've got buses with snow tires and experienced drivers, they've got public works folks that are better at clearing the roads because they do it more often, etc.

by Alex B. on Dec 19, 2009 1:13 pm • link • report

Ok, how could this possibly be Catoe's fault? If anything, it seems like Metro's proactive response will allow rail service to return to normal as soon as possible once the snow subsides.

Seriously, if DC got struck by a meteor, I would think people would find a way to blame John Catoe.

by Alex B. on Dec 19, 2009 1:23 pm • link • report

Forget tunneling we could just build shells over the tracks I know some system has it not sure which one at the time.

Its like the roofs of some of the newer metro stations and they completely cover the tracks around the train making them able to run in any type of weather.

Trains and buses can perfectly run in this type of weather by having other countries as examples the problem is that WMATA does not have the equipment and should maybe start investing in some.

There are people who still have to go to work hospitals, pet stores, zoo no matter what type of weather and they may not be able to get there today is basically a reason why the transportation system should be fully underground regardless of price which it would cost or to have a car even if you live in a transit rich area that doesn't mean you will be able to get where you need.

by kk on Dec 19, 2009 1:34 pm • link • report

OK, the explanation that Metro third rail does not have heaters while other systems do makes sense. That being said....they should have been included when the system was first built.

"But storms are rare" so are blackouts, but the system is full of emergency lights. Ditto with rare fires and sprinklers. Transportation systems should be designed to move people in an emergency.

From todays Boston emergency snow declaration:

"Mayor Menino urges everyone to use public transportation when traveling, as a citywide parking ban will be in effect through the duration of the Snow Emergency."

by J on Dec 19, 2009 1:46 pm • link • report

Is it really the best use of Metro's money, which is already $175 million short, to invest in equipment for a storm that only happens once every five years?

by David Alpert on Dec 19, 2009 1:50 pm • link • report

In Moscow, most of the system is underground, and they use bottom-contact third rail, which has less problems with snow. On lines with significant above-ground portions, they run snow clearing trains, and normal service is generally frequent enough that snow doesn't accumulate very much.

by anonymouse on Dec 19, 2009 2:01 pm • link • report

Its a benefit to the public, transit services are meant to transport people not make a profit.

A profit is a plus but is not expected it is a service for the people.

They are just like social services in the sense they are there to help the community.

People have to still go to work all don't have cars and what are they supposed to do all some may and some may not let people get off and some will get fired if they don't come, every job does not give leave.

by kk on Dec 19, 2009 2:09 pm • link • report

There's no transit system that has 100% uptime and is completely immune to weather. When planning a system, governments weigh the costs of installing equipment for the best uptime against the benefits of it. And almost every system is such that there is occasionally weather that will shut it down.

In Moscow, I'm sure that a storm happens every few years that causes large parts of the system to not work. Same with Alexandria, Egypt, I'd bet.

Think of it like snow days at school. Sure, in DC, a few inches of snow will cancel school, while in Anchorage, a few feet wouldn't cause any problems. But the infrastructure of the respective cities makes it so that school only has to be canceled a few days a year. I'm sure that Anchorage gets the occasional blizzard with 10 feet of snow, and even they can't handle it.

Don't invest in complicated snow removal equipment if you'd use it once every five years.

by Tim on Dec 19, 2009 2:51 pm • link • report

At the very least it might seem reasonable to install the "permanent heating tape" mentioned in this thread along the yellow line that runs over the Potomac. That way at least they'd be able to maintain the line's service into the District rather than having a tiny little active stub between Crystal City & Pentagon. Either that or install the heating tape along the portion of the blue line that runs through Arlington Cemetary. In either case, train service from that part of Arlington into the District could be maintained rather than having just a tiny little Crystal City-Pentagon stub.

by Aaron on Dec 19, 2009 3:50 pm • link • report

@Aaron: I agree that they should prioritize some above-ground tracks to connect disparate parts of the system and make it possible to get around.

by Adam F on Dec 19, 2009 3:57 pm • link • report

@Aaron. I was living here 5 years ago when this happened. Which means they've had five years to fix a glaring design flaw and have done nothing.

Catoe has been here for three years. He's had three years to fix a design flaw. Not done. Failed again.

I don't blame him for a record snowfall. I blame him for not managing the problem earlier.

He was also 36 hours late in announcing the possibility of closures. Metro communications fails again.

So he's failed twice this storm.

by Redline SOS on Dec 19, 2009 5:31 pm • link • report

$$$

It all comes to money. it's been said on this thread before, but the cost of making this system perform in snow akin to Boston or Moscow would be an irresponsible waste of money. To make that happen, we'd have to cut other things that, in perspective, most riders care more about. Suppose the trains all ran today - they'd still have record low ridership. So, riddle me again why it's good sense to take safety risks (another issue we hold Catoe accountable to) and financial risks to ensure the trains run in a once-in-a decade (if not 20 years!) storm.

Pause. Look outside. This didn't fall over the whole season (like in Moscow or Toronto). This fell in one day. 20" of snow even in Iceland would make 'em pause for a few hours to get it cleared and safe. I think the expectations here are a bit out of step with reality.

by Sophiagrrl on Dec 19, 2009 7:29 pm • link • report

DCers really are whiners. It makes no sense to run Metro like the MTA. A big snow storm is a rare occurence here. There was plenty of notice for employers, businesses, etc. to figure out what to do with employees, etc. I rearranged my schedule on Friday and drove home from Ohio a day early, working in a trip to the supermarket along the way. And I know how to drive in this stuff, even if surrounded by idiots who live under the delusion that this is Florida and that their inconvenience is a really, really big deal..

by Rich on Dec 19, 2009 7:43 pm • link • report

Did anyone get an e-mail alert that Metrorail was going to shut down large sections of the system at 1pm today?

by mike on Dec 19, 2009 8:10 pm • link • report

Metro is really incompotent. Philadelphia's SEPTA and Maryland's MTA have trains running normally (light and heavy rail in both cities) and they're being hit just as bad. I guess they have *special* 3rd rails and catenary that don't ice. I swear Catoe is the biggest idiot in DC, (after all the Repiblicans in Congress of course).

by King Terrapin on Dec 19, 2009 8:18 pm • link • report

King Terrapin must have a funny definition for both "running normally" and "just as bad". According to MTAMaryland, Light Rail is suffering "Major Disruptions", and two feet is still more than one foot of snow, which has started later than it did here. And I'm seeing a lot of "service advisories" on SEPTA's website, too.

And as David Alpert said, it's a matter of priorities. We don't have the money to supply normal levels of service on a clear sunshiny day, and you folks here want Metro to divert money to prepare for something that happens rarely in DC. We're more likely to get struck by a hurricane here than a blizzard!

And for all the whiny, why no hate to our highway departments. Our roads were a mess too, and unless all of our hospitals and pet stores were relocated to subway lines while I wasn't looking, those employees were still going to have major difficulty getting to work, whether they drove, transfered to bus or walked!

This is still the South.

by Wes on Dec 19, 2009 8:47 pm • link • report

If Baltimore can run their system, then DC has no excuse.

I also just remembered, someone mentioned the "snow intake" problem that the trains have. I remember reading how many many moons ago, the MBTA (Boston) had the same issue. Turns out, a staff member found a $2 fix (homemade filter). Now all the trains have them.

by J on Dec 19, 2009 9:17 pm • link • report

And if a train with passengers on it lost contact with the rail and got stranded out in the snow, people would crucify Catoe for that.

Hell, even if he were to resign, people would complain that he didn't do it soon enough.

Talk about your no-win scenarios.

by Alex B. on Dec 19, 2009 10:15 pm • link • report

And if a train with passengers on it lost contact with the rail and got stranded out in the snow, people would crucify Catoe for that.

Guess what happened today,

Go ahead. Guess

Tony Dorsey was on the Orange Line between the Dunn Loring and Vienna stations when the train stopped shortly after 1 p.m. The operator initially announced that they were returning to Dunn Loring, Dorsey said, then said no one was going anywhere; the train's brakes were frozen.

Dorsey said he and other passengers were stranded for nearly 2 1/2 hours until another piece of equipment arrived and dragged the train back to the station. Metro said 10 customers were stranded for about 90 minutes. Steven Taubenkibel, a Metro spokesman, blamed the stoppage on the weather, and said customers eventually were driven to their destinations by Metro supervisors.

Dorsey, 39, of Linden, Va., said he and his fellow riders bonded during their wintry ordeal. "In times of turmoil and deprivation, humans really become human," he said.

by Wes on Dec 19, 2009 10:58 pm • link • report

Yes, I read about that. That was a train they ran after 1 pm to specifically pick up folks after they had already 'closed' the system above ground. It was there to mop up stragglers, essentially.

by Alex B. on Dec 19, 2009 11:01 pm • link • report

For people talking about WMATA not having money; even if we were in the black they still wouldnt buy any of the stuff suggested. WMATA could have a billion extra dollars and I guarantee all of it would not be put to good use.

There are always a wait and see company

The icing equipment to keep rail lines in clear could be added to small portions of the line such as the eastern blue/orange line which could at least serve two stations in that part of dc & md benning road capitol hgts or the blue line between rosslyn and pentagon.

WMATA is an incompetent company but not for the reason above but because they don't follow there own information take today

There phone line at 637-7000 said things completely different than there website wmata.com.

They do things that defy logic and give no reason for doing so like the glenmont,wheaton,forest glen thing which is closed but reading there press release you would assume its open by saying metro is serving underground stations but then continuing reading the rest they list stations open and there aren't which would leave consumers confused.

They said there customer service would be open until 1pm it was closed well before then about 12pm.

When they announced the system was basically closing on the site they said Metrorail is closing in giant print whereas the parts for Metrobus and Metroaccess were in small print under it all should have been the same size.

Actually what they should have done was put up a new index page for the emergency and say Metro bus/rail/access will cease at 1pm except for rail in underground stations.

by kk on Dec 20, 2009 12:57 am • link • report

@Wes
I knew about the MTA light rail delay due to frozen switches and the few SEPTA delays, but that was just before I posted. Before noon SEPTA and MTA were running fine, and the Baltimore Metro, which travels above ground for about 2/3 of the line didn't have any delays.

"This is still the South."
Oh, you must live on that side of the Potomac.

by King Terrapin on Dec 20, 2009 3:51 pm • link • report

You know what the average annual snowfall for the Washington DC area is? Sixteen inches! We got that in a single storm on a single day. When people act as though we should prepare for *that* as though it was a normal regular occurrence here, I will gladly call them out as being unreasonable. KK and King Terrapin, you are being unreasonable. In the typical DC snowstorm, which is closing everything for 3 to 6 inches, Metrorail pretty much works. This is the first time I remember them resorting to their "snow map" since introducing it after 2003 when trains broke after trying to travel in snow. But to argue that Metro should prepare for Buffalo style weather when they barely have money for current levels of service, and when public priorities are for things like greater downtown capacity, service to Tysons, or something as basic as tunnels that don't leak and escalators and elevators that work, complaints that Metro has difficulty in as rare an event as a snowstorm that dumps two feet in twenty-four hours is divorced from the world in which we live.

Anyway, before noon KT, THERE WASN'T THAT MUCH SNOW IN PHILADELPHIA. There was about 3 or 4 inches on the ground up there then. And at about 8 or 9 am with comparable amount of snow, Metro was running fine, too. By the time the storm got going up in Philadelphia, SEPTA was reporting delays of 30-45 minutes. That laudable, but that doesn't win it awards for "near normal service". That said, I'd argue interior MD and Pennsylvania would get more snow than we do. We are further south, and close enough to the Atlantic Ocean that we deal much more often with sleet, freezing rain and just old fashioned rain. Snows do not last here as long. We frequently get winds from the east in these storms, which warms things up, again making it harder for major snow accumulations to happen here. Getting a big snowstorm here is akin to winning the lottery, given how much has to go right for it to happen. Yay, we won this year. The last time we did was back in 2003.

Oh, and of 2003. I was driving back here from my childhood home of Detroit, Michigan. I was there to attend a funeral. I drove into that blizzard as I was coming here. The snow started as I traveled into Pennsylvania. The roads did not get horrible until I entered Maryland. I grew up and lived in places that know how to handle snow. Maryland is not great shakes when it comes to heavy snow, but other than Western Maryland, I don't expect you to be. I hate to break it to you, but you're the South as well.

by Wes on Dec 20, 2009 5:20 pm • link • report

@ Wes

I understand what your saying

I'm saying that WMATA needs to do a better job at communicating there press releases often don't make sense; are confusing and are not the same as there spokespeople say on the news/radio and what is presented on the phone line. Like many companies you can call Wmata one minute speak to someone and get one answer and call again and get another answer thats totally different.

Some things could be done to make the system better such as taking preventive measures way before the start of any weather. or including things so that some stations above ground could be served so that large portions of the area are served with something especially places where there are not many car owners.

My main question was why were the 3 stations in va open while the 3 underground on the red line were not WMATA gave no answer to why it was done.

A company should be upfront about things and people would be more acceptable to things.

by kk on Dec 20, 2009 5:44 pm • link • report

I recall that Metro invested in de-icing equipment several years ago ( I think after the 1996 storm fiasco?). Does it not work?

by Lib on Dec 20, 2009 7:23 pm • link • report

Lib -

What kind of de-icing equipment? They had stuff they were using.

The point is, when you get this much snow, you're going to be scrambling no matter what. At its peak, snow was accumulating at 2 inches an hour - a rate that would make some ski resorts jealous. Even for permanent de-icing equipment, you're well beyond the design parameters by that point.

by Alex B. on Dec 20, 2009 8:14 pm • link • report

Well, obviously not too many commuters this morning, but everything seemed to be moving smoothly on the rails.

by Alex B. on Dec 21, 2009 8:59 am • link • report

Aside from one spinout I saw on the Inner Loop, Beltway was fine in the southeast quadrant. Ramps were crap, but that was to be expected.

by Froggie on Dec 21, 2009 9:07 am • link • report