Comments on Metro Rapid, or what we could've had if Catoe had stayed - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by Mike-in-Downtown-LA

Sun, 24 Jan 2010 11:49:09 EDT

@Calwatch: My understanding is that signal priority for Rapid buses was the main "substantive" improvement over the old limited service. In the end, I think that the speed improvements that can be attributed to signal priority are very minor (I think even the uber-advantaged Orange Line only goes about 2 mph faster than the on-street bus it parallels a block north.)

And I think you bring up a good point -- that a "triumph of marketing" has, more or less, happened -- and that it's a good thing! And that others can learn from it.

Comment by calwatch

Sat, 23 Jan 2010 05:58:55 EDT

While you saw the crown jewel of Metro Rapid, go out to Florence, Central, or Garvey, where Metro Rapid is basically comet shaped signs, or even worse, regular numbers, with little cubes that have a line and the stops on the line.

Note also that Rapid is definitely a triumph of marketing over substance. Almost all of the Rapid lines had limited stop service - where buses made stops every half mile to mile instead of every sixth to a quarter mile - prior to their Rapid conversion. When the lines became Rapid, they eliminated a few more stops, expanded the limited stop service from rush hour only to all day, and removed timepoints on the line, to give drivers an incentive to move faster (so they had a longer break at the end). Unfortunately, removing timepoints exarcebated bus bunching, so they're now back. There is now no difference between Metro Rapid and the old limited stop service, other than red buses.

Comment by LAlocal

Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:35:18 EDT

John Catoe did not invent Metro Rapid Bus. He was, however, quick to snatch it away once it proved successful. John Catoe's original idea for LACMTA was chrome wheels on the motorcoaches. It cost a few million.

I'm not surprised things didn't turn out in DC for him. He is not missed here.

Comment by Joseph Dunn

Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:42:28 EDT

Iam a resident of the Miracle Mile area in Los Angeles and take the 720 rapid bus from my house(I'm very spoild) around the corner to the Wilshire/La Brea stop to my Dad's place(he lives near the Wilshire/Bundy stop)in West Los Angeles and takes me 30-40 minutes at off peak, and 50 or more misnutes during rush hours. The Miracle Mile is like Dupont Circle and stretching it for a mile. There is talk after we approved ballot measure R to extend our Purple Line(heavy rail line) down Wilshire Blvd. to the beach(Santa Monica). I am very happy about all these new lines being built country wide, however Your town D.C. must start funding operations at transit authorities nationwide since all of these are cutting service and raising fares big time. Please contact your fellow politians to make sure how you feel about transit funding.

Comment by Ken R.

Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:15:29 EDT

I think my fellow friend and Southern Californian, Eric G. is correct.

The 720 and 750 started before Mr. Catoe joined METRO.

When I worked in Santa Monica and occasionally rode the Big Blue Bus #2 line, John Catoe would sometimes get on my run and we would have a pleasant conversation about the current transit situations, etc.

I of course knew him when he was at METRO and he was always friendly to me.

I do know that even though he went from #1 at Big Blue Bus to #2 at METRO under Roger Snoble, it was a salary increase for him. I don't unfortunately, remember the difference in the salaries.

Comment by Erik G.

Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:25:41 EDT

Umm, Catoe was the deputy CEO of LA Metro, not the head honcho. That was Roger Snoble who came from Dallas. Catoe was running the Santa Monica Big Blue Bus before Snoble convinced him to join LA Metro. Not sure how much Catoe had to do with the later development of the Rapid lines, but it was already begun with routes 720 and 750 before he worked at LA Metro.

Comment by Jason

Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:03:06 EDT

@Sam K: Half of the problem with the J4 is the traffic on University between Piney Branch and Riggs. From Riggs to College Park it's a fast ride and once it gets off University to Bethesda it's a fast ride too (discounting East-West & Connecticut). If there was some way to unclog that clog, especially between New Hampshire and Riggs where there aren't multiple Ride On services to fill the Langley Park-Silver Spring hole, it'd look a lot more appealing.

Comment by Sam K

Thu, 21 Jan 2010 01:57:25 EDT

Don't kid yourself. I've never been on a J4 that takes less than 65 minutes (will often be closer to 75). End-to-end you're better off taking Metro from Bethesda to College Park, but it does provide a vital service to Little Salvador in the University Boulevard area. The stops aren't the issue, it's the traffic. The purple line is the only thing that can improve that ride.

Comment by BeyondDC

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:49:21 EDT

Agree with the general sentiment. WMATA hired Catoe for his bus expertise. It's a shame that witch-hunt scapegoating pushed him to resignation.

The good news is that WMATA has other people who know how to make buses work, and the Priority Transit Network plan has picked up real legs over the last couple of years. It's slower to implement than we'd hoped, but it is still alive. Folks like Jim Hamre can make it work if given the opportunity.

Comment by ~sg

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 17:04:01 EDT

How is LA County's Metro system funded? How many political jurisdictions have a veto over its policies and actions?

I too was disappointed to see John Catoe resign. However, I suspect that he had some better raw material to work with in LA than he had here; I don't think he could have delivered the same service here no matter how talented he is. I take his resignation to be that of a very experienced, knowledgeable man sizing up a situation and deciding that it's unworkable.

Comment by Chris Loos

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:48:08 EDT

I relocated out here to LA from DC 2 weeks ago (but am still checking GGW daily of course!) I ride the 200 and 720 to get from Echo Park to my job at Wilshire + La Brea every day. The 720 really does MOVE. I've done the trip down Wilshire on my scooter and its not much faster than the Rapid Bus. The other nice thing they have on the buses are flat screen TVs that show programs, ads, and have a sidebar that shows the current location of the bus using Google Maps. The articulated buses are modern looking and painted a friendly orange. Having said that, they are BUMPY. Sure, Wilshire Blvd needs a resurfacing but I feel like there is zero suspension on the buses.

I feel the same way you do Dan- I was really looking forward to seeing what Catoe could do with Metrobus. The Rapid Bus service in LA as well as what they've done to market transit here is pretty remarkable. Check out this Vimeo clip for more info on LA Metro's marketing efforts:

http://www.vimeo.com/7984623

Its really a shame that last summer's crash dragged Catoe down before he could do what he was hired to do with DC's Metrobus system. If there's one silver lining its that the Why.I.Hate.DC dude can finally shut up with his Catoe Watch. I'm sure he's feeling nice and smug.

Comment by dan reed

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:57:46 EDT

@Steve S According to 2008 ACS, 67% of people in Los Angeles City drive to work, 11% carpool, 11% take public transit, and the balance (11%) walk, bike, or work from home. The percentage of transit-riders in LA County is a little lower.

@Ben you're absolutely right. LA's transit system is growing fast and I'm sure it'll surpass D.C.'s for length in not very long, but relative to the size of the city (4m people over 400+ square miles), 73 miles isn't very much.

@Reza I should write about Portland. Some guy was yelling my name on Portland State's campus when I was waiting for the streetcar and it was really confusing. Overall, it was a good time.

Comment by Bill Vincent

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:52:52 EDT

Metro was indeed sued by the Bus Riders Union and lost, and occupancy requirements were imposed by consent decree. However, based upon my conversations with Metro staff, that was not the primary motivation for Metro Rapid. Rather, it was an experiment designed to determine (1) whether bus speeds could be significantly increased (and thus operating costs reduced), and (2) whether and to what extent passengers would select the rapid service over local service in the same corridor. Metro Rapid was inspired, at least in part, by a trip that Mayor Riordan and others took to Curitiba Brazil in 1998, or thereabouts.

The success of the first two corridors led to the development of the existing 26 mile, 450-mile network. Further enhancements are underway, including roughly 12 miles of dedicated bus lanes on Wilshire Boulevard.

Among the lessons for the DC area, I believe, is that bus service can be improved quickly (roughly 10 years in LA to achieve the 450-mile network), and that these improvements offer very substantial benefits at a relatively modest cost.

Comment by MLD

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:29:29 EDT

@13th & Harvard:

What makes you say that the "express" routes like S9 aren't effective?

Comment by Jazzy

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:28:07 EDT

I agree with Lou. I never really noticed such dynamism in the works regarding buses - beyond Next Bus which yes was great, though it's suffering now.

Comment by Ben

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:02:31 EDT

Dan- Interesting posting but I would not call LA's rail system small. LA currently has 73 miles of light and heavy rail (http://beta.metro.net/news/pages/facts-glance/) and as can be seen from the link you posted, the Expo Line will open later this year. Additionally, LA County will have nearly $30B in revenue from the Measure R sales tax increase to spend on various rail projects countywide, including the important westside extension of rail to Santa Monica. Within the next two decades, it is quite likely that LA County will have a more extensive rail system than DC, although not on a per capita basis since Southern California has about 3.5 times as many people as the DC region.

Comment by Steve S

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:31:00 EDT

As a result, 1.2 million people ride the bus each day, or more than the subway and bus in D.C. combined

How does their regional transit mode share compare to ours?

Comment by kreeggo

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:02:30 EDT

I haven't been on the S-9 but have used the 79 on occasion to travel from Mt. Vernon Sq. to Silver Spring instead of using two trains. I've found that it is generally faster than Metrorail service if the bus is relatively close (which I get from my next bus phone app).

My only problem is I'm a relatively big guy and can't sit in bus seats that face forward. Sitting on the side seats inevitably results in someone tripping over my feet or stepping on my toes. But I shouldn't complain--the side seats are still better than airline seats and I can always stand in the aisle if bus seats are a problem.

Comment by Lou

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:33:23 EDT

Was this something that Catoe was proposing? I miss the connection between him leaving and this type of system not being implemented here, as the headline suggests. I guess I'm out of the loop.

Comment by Reza

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:26:06 EDT

Nice post, Dan. Look forward to your writeup on Portland.

Comment by 13th & Harvard

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:18:05 EDT

This express bus system in LA sounds like of like the Circulator (specially marked stops, no timetables needed due to relatively short wait times, good for short trips), which are awesome. However, I think the system should be kept simple like it is now so that people will continue to want to use it.
I definitely think there could be some improvement to routes on major residential streets in DC- ie Connecticut between Woodley Park and Chevy Chase, 16th Street (which is almost always a mess), 14th Street. I think it would be useful to have a city bus with the functionality of a Circulator route and timetable (at least on a limited schedule). The "express" routes- such as the S9- aren't very effective.

Comment by kreeggo

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:10:03 EDT

I would hope that the next GM and the board continue to support expansion of Metro Extra service and add to that bus priority treatments along the corridors.

I agree that service like that in L.A. does not take the place of high speed light or heavy rail, but can make a dramatic improvement fairly quickly and can work long term in areas that won't be served by rail.

Comment by Michael Perkins

Wed, 20 Jan 2010 12:57:49 EDT

Wasn't a lot of Los Angeles' improvements based on the transit agency losing a discrimination court battle with the bus riders' union?

From what I understand, the group of organized bus riders sued the transit agency, claiming that investments in rail transit had a discriminatory effect, and won. The court required LA to provide bus improvements, including a requirement that the bus load factors be kept below a certain level.