If I lived even within 2 miles of a metro station I'd probably walk just as much as I biked or rode the bus. Even in the more not so good for pedestrian stations. People need to start walking for the sake of walking. We should encourage more walking. You hardly need to go to the gym if you're walking enough.

by cmerchan@gmu.edu on Mar 19, 2010 11:43 am • link • report

I completely agree with a fare differential for paper farecards.

Currently, there's no cost benefit to using SmarTrip over farecards. In fact, SmarTrip cards cost $5. Instituting a cost differential would make it such that the SmarTrip card would pay for itself in 10 to 20 trips.

Also, the farecard system is more expensive for Metro, as Dr. Gridlock pointed out.

I could see how one could argue that it amounts to a tourist tax, but tourists aren't the only ones who use farecards. I know a lot of locals who use Metro so infrequently that they don't have SmarTrip. Plus, there's no financial incentive to get a SmarTrip, so why do it?

by Tim on Mar 19, 2010 11:59 am • link • report

@ Tim:

First of all. Your first line indicates that you are not a farecard user. And that because this measure doesn't hurt you, you don't care about the consequences for others.

If people need a financial incentive to use Smartrip, perhaps Smartrip is not as heavenly as it is supposed to be.

I never get all the fretting about the different cost of payment. I am sorry that cost is simply the cost of doing business. You have to give your customers a convenient way of paying for the product you are selling. Convenient for the customer that is.

Don't we all fume about the "convenience" fees that Ticketbastard and airlines charge for nothing else than paying for a ticket.

I understand fully why infrequent riders do not have a Smartrip card. Infrequent users may not be willing to carry their Smartrip card on the at all time. Wallets are full enough as it is. Infrequent riders may loose their cards (and money. Punishing those customers financially will only drive them away. That would not seem to be a good idea.

WMATA is in the business of transporting people, not in the business of picking and choosing customer by way of payment preferences.

If metro wants to encourage the use of Smartrip, it could drop the $5 fee.

Finally, people may object to having to pre-pay for trips they may never take.

Personally, it bothers me that more and more entities come up with ways to make me pre-pay for services. Metro does. My employer does for parking. What you end up with is a whole bunch of money that you have spent on specific items, with all kinds of strings attached while ending up with less actual money in your hands. The worst thing is that most of the time there's no way that you can get your money back in case you decide to not use the service to the amount you though you would.

by Jasper on Mar 19, 2010 12:47 pm • link • report

Your pre-pay objection is irrelevant, you can put as much or as little on a SmarTrip as you like - same as a farecard on the lower bound.

Long term, WMATA should shift to paper farecards that have RFID tags so they work on the SmarTrip sensors - I believe other systems around the world feature this.

I have no problem, however, with charging farecard users more.

by Alex B. on Mar 19, 2010 1:28 pm • link • report

Its easy to solve the elevator & escalator problem use ramps

They need to completely change the way the stations are designed so that you don't need no 500 foot escalators or 200 foot deep stations.

They need to get the stations as close as possible to the surface, but not close enough to be effected by pipes or construction above then figure out ways to build them without or without as many escalators or elevators.

Regarding smartrip & farecards WMATA is lethargic; everything should have been done when many things were converted to smart only such as transfers.

Th one thing that always gets me is how we have transfers on smartrip cards but no passes WTF; they both should have both been implemented at the same time.

They also need to quit being the first to try something out (smartrip cards) and not be a beta tester for the rest of the transportation industry. They should have been left that crap and went to the standard that everybody else uses.

The smart thing to do would be to make the smartrip cards more durable

I don't know how many of them have broke in my wallet or pocket because there made of cheap ass plastic, smartcards come in thicker plastic I have them for my house and job

Move everything on to smartrip cards that way you can get all locals to them and then charge for one time use farecards or paying by cash on the bus for tourist/visitors etc.

by kk on Mar 19, 2010 1:33 pm • link • report

KK - Metro didn't put the stations deep underground because they wanted to. The deeper you go, the more expensive it is so all of the stations are as close to the surface as was economically possible. Deep stations like Dupont and Wheaton are deep for a reason. Dupont, I believe, is deep because of the infrastructure already in place (i.e. the trolly station/underpass) and Wheaton because of the steep incline (trains can only handle a 2-3% grade).

Similarly, the most economical option for the silver line involved the short tunnel they are digging. because of the hill Tysons Corner sits on.

But, technical considerations aside, I wish stations were designed with stairs as the primary means of getting up/down instead of the focus on escalators.

~EZ

by EZ on Mar 19, 2010 2:00 pm • link • report

Yeah, the escalators are worsening, but at no time was the situation ever really functional.

by Jazzy on Mar 19, 2010 2:26 pm • link • report

KK - another follow up to your post...

A year or two back there was a page posted somewhere on the web (I know, not very useful but I just spent 10 minutes looking for it and couldn't find it) on how to deconstruct a smart card so you could pull the RFID chip out of it. Involved dissolving/delaminating it in acetone or toluene or something like that. You could then mount the chip in whatever you want - perhaps something more durable than the flimsy plastic WMATA provides (I agree with you - my card is cracked too).

~EZ

by EZ on Mar 19, 2010 2:36 pm • link • report

@ Alex B.: Your pre-pay objection is irrelevant, you can put as much or as little on a SmarTrip as you like - same as a farecard on the lower bound.

You have a point there. However, there is still the requirement to keep the thing on wit you at all times, as well as the fact that these cards are never compatible.

[There he goes again] In Europe, all debit cards (used there as credit cards here) have chips on them that you can use to pay with. For parking, transit etc. That's a good idea. Not having a separate card for every thing you buy.

Can you imagine theaters "going green" and requiring that you buy a $25 CineCard that will be the preferred payment method for theater tickets, whereas cash and credit card paid tickets will be $2 more? Very green, cuz they can get rid of all the paper ticket waste and cheap, because they can fire that high school student that takes your ticket. In stead, they will install nice CinePorts that you can use your CineCard to enter the theater with.

by Jasper on Mar 19, 2010 2:59 pm • link • report

Flawed analogy, Jasper. You don't pay more to ride Metro with cash or credit.

A more accurate analogy would be if you went to the movies and they wanted you to just buy a ticket from a kiosk and that would let you in without a stub. If you wanted the old nostalgia of an actual ticket stub, you'd have to pay a little bit extra.

by Alex B. on Mar 19, 2010 3:05 pm • link • report

I remember a few years ago there was a budget problems with the escalators -- too much overtime and outside contractors doing maintenance. WMATA said it was going in-house to save money. Is there an update on that?

My impression is the escalator problem is getting better, but perhaps I am just used to the pain.

by charlie on Mar 19, 2010 3:11 pm • link • report

Flawed analogy, Jasper. You don't pay more to ride Metro with cash or credit.

On Metrobus you absolutely do.

by AA on Mar 19, 2010 4:02 pm • link • report

Yes, I think that is right. Your transfer from bus to bus is embedded in your card, but since they did away with paper transfers, for those who don't have a card and pay in cash, they would have to pay two full fares. More if they are using more than two buses. I brought this up on this blog a while ago, but it's not a population that thinks much about that sort of thing since of course everyone would have a card.

by Jazzy on Mar 19, 2010 4:14 pm • link • report

@ Jazzy

Also those who have a rail pass have to pay the higher cash fare or either buy a bus pass also whereas they could used to be able to use the rail pass and then get a paper transfer and pay the 35 cents for them its worst than before.

by kk on Mar 19, 2010 4:23 pm • link • report

Can't understand what you're trying to say. Sorry.

by Jazzy on Mar 19, 2010 4:29 pm • link • report

Elevator and escalator outages on Metro are worsening. That's not much of a surprise given ...

... that Metro is finding increased success at getting passengers to stand along the edge of the escalators, while somehow wondering why the escalators break down on a regular basis. So long as they run at sub-minumum speeds, and make it a policy to push people against the sides, the escalators will break down at not-surprising-at-all frequency.

i.e., You can't break the equipment and not expect the equipment to break.

by skoozeme_skoozeme on Mar 19, 2010 10:38 pm • link • report

@AA,

We're talking about paper fare cards vs. SmarTrip, which is obviously only within the rail universe. Given the much lower cost to WMATA to process SmarTrip transactions, I have no problem in passing that cost on to the customer - particularly on the bus, where SmarTrip is also much faster and speeds boarding significantly.

@skoozeme,

What exactly are you proposing? That we not walk up escalators?

by Alex B. on Mar 20, 2010 2:55 pm • link • report

I think he's saying that we should stand in the middle and hold both handrails.

Not when the next train is in 12 minutes. I'm going to catch it.

Metro should ensure it's escalators are designed for static load on one side. Probably this means better roller bearings on that side, but I suspect the bearings are designed for two adults per step, so I don't see how that's the explanation.

He's also the guy who claims that the no coffee rule doesn't apply in Virginia due to a strange interpretation of the Dillon Rule and the WMATA compact.

by Michael Perkins on Mar 20, 2010 3:44 pm • link • report

Alex B,

Paper not only within the rail universe. There used to be paper transfers. I understood that was what AA was referring to. The old bus fare machines were infinitely faster in taking in dollar bills and change, including pennies.

Boarding was considerably slowed when the new machines came in (at least for cash fares).

by Jazzy on Mar 20, 2010 3:47 pm • link • report

That's certainly the case, but that doesn't change the fact that the earlier discussion was clearly about paper farecards, which are and always have been exclusive to Metrorail.

The older bus fare machines might have been faster than now, but they're definitely not as fast as an RFID card.

by Alex B. on Mar 20, 2010 4:58 pm • link • report

@ Alex

And the paper passes are faster than the RFID cards.

by kk on Mar 21, 2010 11:22 am • link • report

I know it is an expensive retrofit, but why not break up some of the super-long escalators into more manageable units? That way a single breakdown does not affect the entire passage from the station to the surface, it is easier to route around breaks, and the stress on each escalator is less.

by SJE on Mar 21, 2010 3:33 pm • link • report