Really, CFA?

by Chris Loos on Mar 22, 2010 2:40 pm • link • report

Well, I think CFA is wrong on this point, but I understand their concern.

And I can't say I'm too surprised, after all, Pennsylvania Avenue between the Capitol and the White House is one of the only (if not the only) streets in the country to use white paint for the centerline.

Would two yellow stripes (and some green bike lanes) completely destroy the grand avenue?

by Matt Johnson on Mar 22, 2010 2:43 pm • link • report

So we'll have a symbolic bike lane that used primarily as a parking lane for federal vehicles. Great.

by ontarioroader on Mar 22, 2010 2:44 pm • link • report

This sounds like a ridiculous view held by people looking backwards but not even seeing the past clearly. The streets of the city have to serve the city, consideration for the govt has to be a low 35th on the list of concerns.

by james on Mar 22, 2010 3:01 pm • link • report

I applaud the CFA for ensuring that the avenue remains the monumental place it is. I do question though whether leaving the cyclists in the middle of the avenue in such an unprotected manner is wise. Personnally, I'd have split the cycle track into 2 tracks (one eastbound and one westbound) and laid them adjacent to the sidewalk on either side of the avenue. Doing this would probably even have allowed curbs and other physical barriers to go in there. I suspect the problem is that DDOT wanted the cyclists in the middle of the avenue for 'symbolic' purposes and didn't give the CFA the option of commenting on a proposal for cycle tracks on the sides of it instead. And that is likely due to 'everyone' wanting to rush this thing through for "Bike To Work Day". Sometimes it just makes more sense not to rush things.

by Lance on Mar 22, 2010 3:17 pm • link • report

Reminds me of this book, The Future of the Past, which is (generally) about preservation (mostly historic preservation but also art and species). Big question: when we seek to preserve something what exactly are we seeking to preserve?

For example, take the Sphinx. It's been being preserved almost since it was built. The way they're preserving it now (or attempting to, losing battle, really) is to preserve/restore it to the state it was in in the 1920s. But....why? I mean, why then? Why not the way it was in the 1600s, or how it would have been to the ancient Greeks, or even to its original state? Basically, we seek to preserve things in the state in which we think they ought to be, and the way we think things ought to be is the way that we're used to them being (in the Sphinx case, the 1920s was the heyday of European interest in Egyptology which is possibly why they're trying to keep it/restore it to how it was then). Apparently CFA is used to Pennsylvania Avenue the way it is (traffic arrows, stoplights, carbon spewing cars in gridlock) and thinks that that's how it ought to be. And so it must be preserved.

I'm officially too bored at work today. I somehow just related Pennsylvania Avenue to the Sphinx in a way that made sense to me (and probably only me).

Either way, good book. Highly recommended.

by Catherine on Mar 22, 2010 3:20 pm • link • report

Well, if not poles, how about a curb separation like Lance alluded to?

Either way, complaining about green paint or even white paint is just silly.

by Cavan on Mar 22, 2010 3:24 pm • link • report

Given that they don't even have raised pedestrian islands in the center of Penn. Ave now (just flat areas with stone pavers near the stoplights), I highly doubt they'd approve any raised feature in the center lanes.

by Alex B. on Mar 22, 2010 3:35 pm • link • report

Why not belgian block dividers and islands. They're unobtrusive, attractive, and warn drivers to stay out.

by Neil Flanagan on Mar 22, 2010 3:37 pm • link • report

What about using granite cobbles to create a mini curb that cyclists can rid over, but would alert drivers that they are leaving the auto lanes kind of like rumble strips. more expensive than paint, but would blend with the existing set up.

@Neil: more info on these Belgian things please. I am not familiar.

by dano on Mar 22, 2010 4:12 pm • link • report

Why not just get rid of the stupid inaugural parade. Seriously, it's a pointless tradition. Instead the new President should just go to the White House and get to work. And no balls. And no ice cream until they've fixed the Middle East.

by David C on Mar 22, 2010 4:21 pm • link • report

I think it's funny that CFA is concerned about paint on the road when D.C.'s ceremonial core is covered in jersey walls, police barricades, and surface parking lots--not to mention the deplorable state of the National Mall.

by Adam L on Mar 22, 2010 4:41 pm • link • report

Belgian blocks are what most people refer to as cobblestones. Technically, cobbles are irregular or smooth stones. I don't think the term really matters outside of the specification for the project.

On the other hand, maybe using Potomac river stones for cobbles, such as at the Lincoln Memorial, could work and have enough cultural meaning to overcome any fears about coloration.

by Neil Flanagan on Mar 22, 2010 4:51 pm • link • report

Now if only the District can be as vigilant in regards to what is being proposed for I and L Streets. Look at what got done to 15th St NW, and it's in an historic district ... meaning it's supposed to be subject to review by HPO.

by Lance on Mar 22, 2010 5:28 pm • link • report

@David The original historic condition of Pennsylvania Avenue was dirt. Does CFA oppose retaining the turn arrows or dotted lines on the pavement? Pennsylvania Avenue also had streetcar tracks for many decades. Are tracks okay but painted lanes not? If not, why not?

You're making the common mistake of equating 'historic' with 'recreating the past'. That's really not at all what historic preservation is about. From what I've observed, it's really more about preserving the best of the past, making it work with the present, and in so doing so, ensuring that only the best of the future is allowed to co-exist with it. In that light, adding cycling tracks to Pennsylvania Avenue is a good thing (cycling = best of the future); putting up visually obstructive barriers and slopping bright distractive colors all over the pavement isn't. The former enhances the space to make it more special, the latter kidnaps it for its own purposes.

by Lance on Mar 22, 2010 5:34 pm • link • report

The CFA constantly makes ludicrous decisions about the color of things based on zero documentary knowledge. I'm paying more for new windows than would have been the case without this silliness.

by Rich on Mar 22, 2010 7:06 pm • link • report

As I am unaware, can someone explain what power/influence the CFA has over Pennsylvania avenue and/or the cycletracks on Penn.? In other words, what practical effect will their advice against separation and color differentiation have? Thanks!

by Mase on Mar 22, 2010 9:03 pm • link • report

@Mase,

They are the federal equivalent of the District's HPRB (Historic Preservation Review Board). I.e., the get the final say in areas of national significance (and in Georgetown), in the same way that the HPRB gets the final say in our historic districts throughout the city.

"The Commission of Fine Arts, established in 1910 by Act of Congress, is charged with giving expert advice to the President, Congress and the heads of departments and agencies of the Federal and District of Columbia governments on matters of design and aesthetics, as they affect the Federal interest and preserve the dignity of the nation's capital. The Commission consists of seven "well qualified judges of the fine arts" who are appointed by the President and serve for a term of four years; they may also be reappointed."

"Within the District of Columbia community, the Commission advises on design matters affecting the Historic District of Georgetown, under the Old Georgetown Act, as well as other private sector areas adjacent to federal interests, under the Shipstead-Luce Act. "

www.cfa.gov

by Lance on Mar 22, 2010 9:22 pm • link • report

I would love to know the average age of CFA member and whether any of them ride a bike even occasionally.

by ontarioroader on Mar 22, 2010 9:53 pm • link • report

from CFA site ... discussing one of the commissioners:

In her work at DPZ, Ms. Plater-Zyberk has been a principal in the creation of the Traditional Neighborhood Development (TND) ordinance, a prescription for pedestrian-oriented, mixed-use, compact urban growth which has been incorporated into zoning codes across the country. Her recent publications include The New Civic Art and Suburban Nation: The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream.

by Lance on Mar 22, 2010 10:02 pm • link • report

We could mount lasers on the buildings to 'paint' the lines in color on the pavement. They could be turned off for parades.

by shy on Mar 22, 2010 11:26 pm • link • report

A variation of rumble strip dividers should be be considered. Tastefully painted and angled for enabling riders to exit if needed. Without appropriate separation of the lanes there is no point to designating a lane as cycle track. Local drivers aside, the tourist drivers are distracted by the scenery, and need obvious obstacles to keep them from getting confused.

Or they could always line the tracks/lanes with food and t-shirt trucks. Are those stylish enough for the CFA?

Oh and I think the plan for future inaugural parades is the president will be riding in an armored pedicab.

by Max on Mar 23, 2010 1:19 am • link • report

okay CFA, you told us what means are not acceptable to protect the cyclists. now please explain by what alternative means you would find acceptable to meet this necessary requirement.

what kind of dividers or indicators does the CFA find acceptable?

how about we just pave the roads in bumpy belgian block and do the bike tracks in a smoother brick-work with a slight grade-separation? The brick/stone work could be done in any manner of fancy pattern or decoration. After all, it is a centerpiece where monumental beauty does matter. Copenhagen and Amsterdam - bicycle meccas - both have the majority of their paving in this manner.

Stonework and brickwork would be really pretty, plus the cars won't be able to go fast enough to kill anyone. the brick would last about 100 years, the belgian block possibly a thousand years.... good investment all around.

by lee on Mar 23, 2010 7:45 am • link • report

@David - Rather than throwing a tantrum and whining about the CFA's supposed love for historic dirt roads, how about offering them some suggestions.

As Lance pointed out, DDOT f'ed this plan up by trying to rush it through in time for a nice photo-op on Ride to Work Day. If DDOT didn't talk to CFA ahead of time, then they are guilty of being as pie-in-the-sky as some of the postings on this site. CFA has final say. If DDOT didn't at least reach out to CFA and give them a heads-up on this plan and get some initial feedback, then they were incredibly negligent.

The rush for a photo-op and accolades from the echo chamber seems to have resulted in this fumble. As anyone who has ever tried to building something in an area covered by CFA review, if you don't start discussions early on with them, you're proceeding at your own financial peril.

by Fritz on Mar 23, 2010 9:21 am • link • report

@Fritz:
DDOT has been talking with the Commission for Fine Arts. They didn't just spring it on them. But the CFA hadn't ruled in time for the public meeting on Thursday. That's why DDOT presented several proposals for what Pennsylvania Avenue might look like. But of course, the purpose of the meeting was to solicit feedback anyway.

Here are three of DDOT's concept renderings for Pennsylvania Avenue:
Note that two don't rely on painted lanes. Bollards are not shown in any of the renderings (but are in some cross-section drawings).

by Matt Johnson on Mar 23, 2010 10:36 am • link • report

I'm new to city cycling...do any of you seasoned cyclists have any comments on how full lane-paint, brick, or cobbles would perform in the rain? I ride a mountain bike and still worry about traction on road paint.

Also new to city cycling, I would be hesitant to make use of middle-of-the-street lanes without bollards (of which I bet there are non-fluorescent architecturally-shaped varieties)or some other off-the-ground separation or indicator.

by TJ on Mar 23, 2010 10:55 am • link • report

TJ, this paint is specially designed to not become slick in the rain. It isn't really paint at all, as I recall, but more chemically similar to a dye. So instead of putting a layer on top of the surface it changes the color of the surface.

by David C on Mar 23, 2010 11:11 am • link • report

@Matt: Thanks for the info. Having dealt with CFA, I'd say the top two photos you posted would be DOA with CFA.

I highly doubt they'd ever allow any permanent painting on Penn Ave that isn't related auto traffic lanes. Any sort of likely are also DOA.

DDOT has dealt with CFA long enough that they should know by now what CFA is likely to accept and what it's not.

by Fritz on Mar 23, 2010 1:07 pm • link • report

@Matt "But of course, the purpose of the meeting was to solicit feedback anyway."

They had their hearing with CFA earlier that same day. That hearing should have been the culmination of weeks/months of collaboration with CFA to 'get it right' and get an official stamp of approval at the hearing for a plan (or alternative plans) that would have been at least unofficially approved before any presentation in the public meeting. Why offer stuff up you don't have to offer up?

by Lance on Mar 23, 2010 4:14 pm • link • report

That green stripe looks like the TD-Ameritrade commercial.
I can see why the CFA turned it down. The pictures really point out how obtrusive the paint would be. Maybe the first few commenters would change their minds now?

by SA on Mar 24, 2010 11:26 am • link • report

Parade full of white power and klantics down Pennsylvania Ave.? Check.
Painted indicators for safety? Nope.

Well, we wouldn't want to besmirch the unblemished image of America's Main Street would we? What? The KKK? How many? Why are you bringing up old shit?

by horseydeucey on Mar 24, 2010 3:06 pm • link • report