Comments on Breakfast links: Big links on big stories - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by Bianchi

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:02:45 EDT

did Constance Holden regularly ride to work? Or was her regular mode taking the bus/train from Mt. Pleasant? Was she riding this week instead of bus/train b/c bus/train routes were disrupted? Were there public announcements encouraging people who work in the vicinity to bike instead of going by car/bus/train?

The answers to these questions can add detail to the texture of the narrative surrounding the circumstances of her death and perhaps inform prevention efforts for the next time a high security largest-summit-of-its-kind are planned for a workweek in downtown dc. I agree this summit should not have taken place in downtown DC during the workweek.

Comment by jcm

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 16:48:24 EDT

@ibc Or a metrobus for that matter. I'm no claiming I want to be hit by a deuce and a half, or any other truck. But referring to a it as a dangerous war machine is silly. An M1 is a dangerous war machine. An M35 is just a green truck.

Comment by ibc

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 14:44:47 EDT

@Eric F That "War Machine" looks about as dangerous as a GMC box truck or a dump truck to me.

Or a garbage truck. Like the one that ran over Alice Swanson when the driver failed to check his mirror before turning.

Comment by Matt Johnson

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 13:20:02 EDT

@ksu499
Haste does not equal Fast

The problem was the National Guardsmen kept being required to move the truck on short notice. That's haste.

The truck does not have to be moving 60 mph to be moving in haste.

Comment by ksu499

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 13:18:19 EDT

"...hastily moving such a massive machine..." You do not hastily move an Army 5 ton truck.

Comment by jcm

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 12:33:02 EDT

@Eric F That "War Machine" looks about as dangerous as a GMC box truck or a dump truck to me.

Comment by aaa

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:55:31 EDT

I dunno about the Geneva Convention, but Summit delegates definitely did not pay taxes while here. And if you've ever waited tables near the World Bank or UN, you'd know that they're lousy tippers also. (They usually feign ignorance on tipping customs despite having lived and worked in the area for several years.)

Comment by dynaryder

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:43:35 EDT

@Eric: the war machine in that photo is meant for carrying cargo and people. They have no armament or armor. The description in your next post pretty much describes every vehicle in the Baja 500.

Comment by Matt W

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:29:22 EDT

The comments at the WTOP article on windshield perspective are pretty alarming. Cars should rule the road simply because they're bigger? By that reasoning, since 18-wheelers are bigger than four-wheel vehicles, truckers should be able to crush those annoying little sedans with impunity?

Comment by Matt Glazewski

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 11:12:07 EDT

@Matt J - love the Sowjetischen Sektor comment, hahahah

Sources tell me that Chancellor Merkel was seen eating at the Chop't on 7th Street. Then again, those same sources also told me that I could use the Suitland Parkway with no fear of being mowed down by cars on bike to work day.

Comment by Eric F.

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:52:39 EDT

My mistake; wrong European city. It was the Vienna Convention of 1961.

Comment by Lou

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:50:38 EDT

Geneva Convention does not apply to local tax revenues, last time I checked.

Comment by Eric F.

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:27:36 EDT

It's a war machine when it's designed to successfully crush and run over anything in its way, hence the high ground clearance, high bumper, high driver position, rigid body frame, thick-tread tires. This is no ordinary vehicle.

As for the hotel receipts, I'm curious if the foreign delegations are exempt from paying DC hotel taxes under the Geneva Convention. That doesn't mean hotels don't benefit, but it might mean the city taxpayer is receiving a level of tax revenue far below what normal tourists pay.

Comment by Lou

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:22:06 EDT

@Matt, I bet if you could look at the hotel receipts for the downtown hotels where everybody was staying (because they were close to the Summit location), you would see that there was quite a bit of patronizing going on.

My point being, a Summit involving 47 foreign delegations is hard to accommodate outside of a city unless you can find a place with adequate housing facilities befitting heads of state.

Comment by Paul

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:16:11 EDT

So if a vehicle has a green camo color scheme it's a war machine...

Comment by Eric F.

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:11:17 EDT

"War machine" is no exaggeration. Take a look at the same intersection the next morning. It's no surprise that hastily maneuvering such a massive machine back and forth on a city street throughout the day might actually hurt somebody.

Comment by dynaryder

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:09:17 EDT

@Eric: "massive war machines"? They were using Hummvees and trucks,not tanks and APC's(rolleyes).

Agreed that holding the summit in downtown DC was a bonehead move,but the problem was they needed to have qualified personnel handling the traffic;police or Secret Service. Folks who are used to directing these kind of operations. This tragidy was 100% avoidable.

Also,WTF is with the kid in the distracted driving article? He kills someone because he's yakking on the phone,so now he doesn't do it as often? Killing someone isn't enough for him to change his actions?

Comment by Matt Johnson

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:05:53 EDT

@Lou:
Is there any indication that the Prime Minister of anything patronized a business near the Convention Center? For one, they'd have a hard time getting out of the ~~Sowjetischen Sektor~~ Secure Zone in order to patronize Subway on 7th or any of the other establishments in the area.

Comment by Lou

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 10:01:47 EDT

Andrews for the Summit? I doubt the Prime Minister from Belgium is going to appreciate the BOQ or Days Inn across the street. Get a grip people.

Comment by Fritz

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:55:08 EDT

Cities shouldn't hold summits because it causes traffic jams? Hmm...I guess that means the United Nations will be putting up a for sale sign at its NYC building and looking for some rental space in Iowa.

And "accidental murder"? That's a bit much. Does that make the Metro bus driver who hit a pedestrian yesterday an "accidental attempted murderer"? In the wake of the multitude of crashes and deaths involving Metro, is the system an "accidental mass murderer"?

And the criticism of the deployment of "military war machines" is equally over the top. If the military had deployed tanks and APCs, that's one thing. But they didn't. They deployed Humvees. If an unarmed transport vehicle used by the military automatically means its a war machine, does that mean the Dutch troops who use bicycles are also using war machines?

People need to stop exploiting a tragedy for their own ideological purposes.

Comment by Eric F.

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:41:26 EDT

Jason, I don't think this site is "blaming" the military. The fact of the matter is that the National Guard accidentally killed (but did not murder) a person.

The military has a useful and important purpose in protecting the nation and I am certainly not one of those naive peaceniks who wants to disband the Pentagon. However, just as it is inappropriate to water a garden with a firehose, it is inappropriate to deploy the military and war machines onto city streets. These machines are meant to kill (as they should, if they are deployed in a war zone), but this sort of firepower is unwarranted in a civilian city.

This was not a national emergency, despite what the Obama administration wants you to believe. Constitutional rights don't disappear just because the top officials at the Secret Service are watching too many episodes of 24.

The president gets around town just fine with armored limousines and SUVs; there was no need to call in these massive war machines to put on a theatrical spectacle.

Comment by Alex B.

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:33:20 EDT

@Jason -

"Accidental murder" is a contradiction in terms. The key element of murder is intent.

Regardless, assigning blame isn't the solution here. Regardless of who was at fault, the point is that such a situation is entirely preventable.

To me, that's not just a question of an in the city location. Timing matters (last year's G20 meeting was on a weekend, also held in the city), security procedures matter, transportation matters. For example, if you're going to use vehicles to barricade streets, perhaps using civilian trucks that are street legal is a better idea than using military hardware.

Anyway, I hope a deep review of these kinds of security policies comes out of this.

Comment by Jason

Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:24:45 EDT

If anything can come out of Constance Holden's accidental murder, it is the idea that the Convention Center should never hold a summit again. Cities are not the place for hyper-secure summits and they had many alternatives -- Camp David, National Harbor, Andrews AFB, Bolling AFB, Fort Belvior, any closed-for-the-season ski area, etc. etc.

I shared the WJLA article on her death on Facebook with a line about "is America really free". Cost me a relative in the military as a friend because all the cynicism pissed him off. Thanks snarky anti-military GGW commentators!