Comments on NCPC wants more power over streetcar wires - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by T R Hickey

Mon, 28 Jun 2010 10:21:38 EDT

Why wouldn't the feds want the capital to set the standard for the 21st century ... with wireless technology ... vs. falling back on soviet-designed systems?

@Lance: the overhead contact wire systems used worldwide by streetcars was invented in 1887 in Richmond VA. That's a bit before the dawn of the Soviet-era and a place---to the best of my knowledge---that has managed to resist then spread of Red Menace.

Maybe DC should catch up with the 20th Century before grasping at alledged 21st Century technologies that are costly and aren't ready prime-time. Making streetcars relient on esoteric technologies that were too expense to operate and maintain is how DC lost a world-class streetcar network in the first place (or was that the intent of your provocative misdirections in the first place?).

Comment by crin

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:55:01 EDT

Fenty appointing a jogging buddy with no planning experience to NCPC has nothing to do with NCPC's attitude towards Fenty. Yeah, right.

http://washington.bizjournals.com/washington/blog/2010/06/fenty_appointee_to_ncpc_a_retread.html?surround=lfn

Comment by rg

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 15:00:52 EDT

Paranoid? Perhaps. But it is naive to think that VA and MD elected officials have the best interests of the District in mind and at heart.

And yes, this is NCPC grasping for relevance. Here is what it's statutory authority is:

(e) Principal Duties.Â— The principal duties of the National Capital Planning Commission includeÂ—
(1) preparing, adopting, and amending a comprehensive plan for the federal activities in the National Capital and making related recommendations to the appropriate developmental agencies; and
(2) serving as the central planning agency for the Government within the National Capital region and reviewing the development programs of the developmental agencies to advise as to consistency with the comprehensive plan.

And here is what the next section of the US Code says:

(a) Planning Responsibilities.Â— The Mayor of the District of Columbia is the central planning agency for the government of the District of Columbia in the National Capital and is responsible for coordinating the planning activities of the District government and for preparing and implementing the District elements of the comprehensive plan for the National Capital, which may include land use elements, urban renewal and redevelopment elements, a multiyear program of public works for the District, and physical, social, economic, transportation, and population elements.

Seems pretty clear to me that NCPC is grasping......

Comment by rg

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 14:53:47 EDT

So you are suggesting that DC, alone among US cities, should forego all federal transportation funding (or perhaps all federal grant funding) just to prove a point?!? Seriously?!? I am sure that Virginia and Maryland would really love that!

Or are you suggesting that every US city, in exchange for any federal grant, should subject itself to the whims of NCPC?

As for planning, DDOT has been working on this project for over a decade. Have you read the hundreds upon hundreds of pages of detailed analysis and planning in the Alternatives Analysis?

Comment by Reid

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 14:36:50 EDT

Hey NCPC want some baguettes with that whine?

Seriously, this is a hollow threat. Like the Committee of 100, it's an organization grasping for relevance. As others said, there is no such thing as "the feds". Being one insignificant arm of the federal government doesn't give you the full force of the entire government.

Comment by oboe

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 14:30:47 EDT

@rg:

Call me paranoid...

Dude...That's pretty paranoid.

By the way, in case anyone is wondering who NCPC Chairman Preston Bryant is, he was the Secretary of Natural Resources for the Commonwealth of Virginia, with a Richmond mailing address and telephone number. Before that, he served in Virginia Legislature as Republican from Lynchburg (a city noted worldwide for its forward-looking urban planning and transportation policies). Guess what? While Bryant may have done some good and admirable things in those positions, I could really care less what he has to say about streetcars or anything else in the District until he moves here and starts voting and paying taxes here. And I fully support my elected officials pushing back against his interference in what should be a local matter.

Looks like Mr Bryant of the Lynchburg GOP was recently appointed to a 6-year-term by none other than President Obama. Thanks, Pres! Good to see that elections have consequences!

My hope is that, at some point in the next century or so, when a Democratic president is elected, he'll actually take a bit of time to *purge* all the assorted right-wing apparatchiks from various government agencies (say, for example, the MMS) rather than increasing their number in the name of bipartisan comity.

Sigh.

Comment by Alex B.

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 14:26:19 EDT

@Lance

No federal dollars? Do you realize how many federal dollars pay for transportation projects of all stripes in the US?

Comment by Lance

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 14:20:48 EDT

@rg ... Perhaps a place to start would be for DDOT to do some real planning ... including planning funding ... and not from federal sources ... to show the feds we really can do it all on our own ... What do you think?

Comment by rg

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 14:12:06 EDT

It is important to always remember that representatives from Maryland and Virginia sit on the NCPC Board. Theoretically at least, these are people who might not always want to see DC succeed, especially if that success comes at the cost of their own jurisdiction. For example, if H Street NE once again thrives, that could mean fewer Capitol Hill residents shopping and paying taxes in Arlington. A stretch, perhaps, but still. Call me paranoid, but I prefer not to take chances and assume that our suburban neighbors always have the District's best interests at heart. (Imagine the outcry if someone decided to give Mayor Fenty final say over whether Columbia Pike should have a streetcar!)

In short, NCPC is another indignity that DC and its residents have to live with. But we certainly do not have to roll over and take it with a smile or, god forbid, with gratitude, as some seem to suggest we should do. Yes, the federal governments has final say. Guess what? I think that (for lack of a better word) sucks. Really, really sucks. I am fully supportive of our duly elected officials fighting back as much as they possibly can. And I have absolutely no patience for those who say we should be thankful that our federal masters at NCPC or NPS or on Capitol Hill are there, ready to set us straight when we undertake misguided projects to promote economic development in our city or to improve mobility for District residents and taxpayers.

(Perhaps Byrant is open to some suggestions from District elected officials about how the Administration in which he served might have better addressed the foreclosure fiasco in Prince William County or the ongoing planning nightmare that are Fairfax and Loudon Counties............Or perhaps Bryant could set up a symposium in which District elected officials could give unsolicited advice to him and the Mayor of Lynchburg about that city's urban planning, economic development and transportation plans....)

Comment by crin

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 14:05:07 EDT

The city, and most here, have scoffed at NCPC all along, and they continue to scoff at them at the peril of the project. This could have all been cleared up years ago, but it's come to this: an office of the federal government will be reporting to another part of the federal government that a bunch of local yahoos shouldn't get federal money because they're thumbing their noses at the feds. Lots of congress-folk, with local yahoos of their own competing for this same federal largess, will be more than happy to take DC out of the running and do whatever it is the cranks at NCPC are asking for.

DDOT and the city need to play ball with NCPC now before it gets worse.

Comment by oboe

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:52:18 EDT

@Progress DC:

Here is a link to a street with Portland's streetcars. I almost didn't notice the wire. It is very minimal compared to the old thicker wires.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=portland,+or&sll=38.902538,-77.029143&sspn=0.012357,0.01929&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon&ll=45.525035,-122.681183&spn=0.022249,0.038581&z=15&layer=c&cbll=45.524934,-122.68118&panoid=csaCVh1BPsOPWIbcDxvnfg&cbp=12,32.64,,0,1.5

Please warn us before posting links to such horrifying photos! That treeless Hellscape, with the wires blotting out the sun! It will haunt me in my dreams!

Comment by Fritz

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:35:21 EDT

NCPC seems to be doing what the CFA has done for years: always trying to expand its authority outward, even if its enabling statutes don't give it such expanded jurisdiction.

Comment by TimK

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:34:06 EDT

The "feds" encompass a wide array of disparate interests, so it's a bit of a misnomer to say they will or won't do something

As it stands now, I have a hard time seeing Congress moving in any unified fashion on this. Why would any of them give a crap about overhead wires in DC, one way or the other? In fact, the only interest I see from Congress is the Oregon delegation being roundly supportive of streetcars, in the hopes of building them out there. And the Republicans will only care if the streetcars get gay married or smoke a joint.

For the executive branch, Sec. LaHood actually helped open the Penn bike path, so clearly he doesn't seem to care about the CFA/NCPC's objections too much. Why would he bother to get involved in a pissing match with DC about overhead wires.

So far as I can see, despite the antiquated Federal Law on these wires, the only interest on the Federal level on dealing with it is CFA/NCPC. They can throw a tantrum, but I don't see anyone else in the Federal government wasting political capital backing them up.

Comment by oboe

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:33:19 EDT

What Adam said.

The idea that NCPC is going to use their significant leverage with the FTA is pretty quaint. My guess is that the current administration, and its folks at FTA could not really give two shits about what the NCPC thinks on an issue like this. Pardon my French.

You basically lobby the White House (and/or LaHood). If you get permission you tell the NCPC to go get stuffed. If not, then you come back and talk to NCPC.

Contra Lance's earlier post, you certainly don't pull off your trousers before you've even been asked to dance.

Comment by William

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:28:21 EDT

@Lance

Don't you think, with a majority democratic congress and an administration that has been promoting mass transit funding and sustainable alternatives, that the doom and gloom you are forecasting is simply spun in your Committee of 100 colored glasses?

Really, can't we look beyond our noses, rather than down them, to figure out how to optimize our transportation options for the 21st Century?

@oboe - well played on the overlords!

Comment by Adam L

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:23:58 EDT

@Lance

Only if Congress cares enough to act. The truth of the matter is that most members of Congress couldn't care less about what happens in the District, as long as they introduce legislation to keep their constituents happy on issues like gay marriage and guns. If the city actually proposes a plan that has wires strung up across Pennsylvania Avenue or the National Mall, then you may see some movement. Until then, I doubt Congress will pay very much attention.

Comment by oboe

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:23:14 EDT

Why wouldn't the feds want the capital to set the standard for the 21st century ... with wireless technology ... vs. falling back on soviet-designed systems? With enough funding, anything is possible. Let's not bite the hand that feeds us ...

Shorter @Lance:

"I, for one, welcome our bureaucratic overlords."

(Incidentally, top-shelf provocateurism. Chapeau!)

Comment by Lance

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:19:12 EDT

@Adam, Are you new to DC? You must be if you don't understand that ultimately the feds will do want they want to do.

Comment by JRinDC

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:18:16 EDT

The comment by "Ward 6" is very insightful. Shows how useful these blogs are.

I guess if Lance was a Streetcar at All Costs person he would be much more respected.

Comment by Ward 6

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:16:19 EDT

Sometimes I wonder if Lance is as much of a turd burglar in person as he is on GGW. Then I move on, realizing he is actually C100's Meg Maguire in disguise.

Comment by Lance

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:15:30 EDT

@David NCPC is asking the DC Council to agree to give it a greater authority over the District's streetcar system than its federal mandate may currently provide.

Something to keep in mind ... The Homerule Charter was given to us by Congress ... who can rescind or amend it at any time. What the feds, and their representatives such as NCPC, want to be their mandate is what is their mandate.

If you don't think that is politically feasible, you need look no further back than just a little over 10 years ago when the Control Board was brought in.

I really think what the Feds are doing here is simply saying 'include us in the process so that we can guide you now to help you achieve what you're looking to achieve ... without going down the wrong road such as stringing wires everywhere.

Why anyone would object to that is beyond me. This is a costly system ... One that will be practically impossible to do with District funding alone. This is the national capital. Why wouldn't the feds want the capital to set the standard for the 21st century ... with wireless technology ... vs. falling back on soviet-designed systems? With enough funding, anything is possible. Let's not bite the hand that feeds us ... else we end up with just a single line over on H St NE ... and nothing else.

Comment by Progress DC

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:15:18 EDT

Here is a link to a street with Portland's streetcars. I almost didn't notice the wire. It is very minimal compared to the old thicker wires.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=portland,+or&sll=38.902538,-77.029143&sspn=0.012357,0.01929&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Portland,+Multnomah,+Oregon&ll=45.525035,-122.681183&spn=0.022249,0.038581&z=15&layer=c&cbll=45.524934,-122.68118&panoid=csaCVh1BPsOPWIbcDxvnfg&cbp=12,32.64,,0,1.5

Comment by to Lance

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:12:04 EDT

Indulge me with one federal law that has been broken to-date.

Comment by Adam L

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 13:10:55 EDT

@Lance

The Home Rule Act makes the Mayor the primary agent for the city's planning. The NCPC, CFA, and other federal agencies were relegated to advisory roles in the process, only retaining limited direct powers when it comes to federally managed properties. Federal agencies don't have the power to just "shut the whole thing down" unless Congress would like to act and overturn the explicit authority they granted to D.C.'s municipal government. NCPC knows they don't have any direct control over the streetcar plan and has thus resorted to trying to exert control by other means.

Comment by Lance

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:59:46 EDT

It sounds like NCPC is trying real hard to work with the Council so that it doesn't shoot itself in the foot by allowing DDOT to continue going down a road that will guarantee it neither gets the required funding for the project nor the wires exemptions it is seeking. This is a real positive step. They could have instead just shut the whole thing down. At least several federal laws have already been violated in the construction that's occurred to date. On that basis alone the feds could have sent the whole streetcar project packing.

Comment by aaa

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:46:02 EDT

How about the Council vote on a symbolic resolution to disband the NCPC instead? The whole situation with the NCPC is reminiscent of the Army Corps of Engineers when people finally figured out that a lot of their busy work was actually destructive to the environment.

Comment by Teyo

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:46:01 EDT

So let me just get this straight. NCPC is threatening to derail (pardon the pun) the streetcars by bitching about it to the FTA unless DC gives the NCPC the power to cancel it themselves? Maybe the FTA will have the wisdom to ignore NCPC when making that decision.

I feel like at this point, the wires aren't even an issue anymore. It seems more like a pissing contest.

Comment by intermodal commuter

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:41:20 EDT

"once the wires are up on H, everyone will look at them and realize it's all a tempest in a teapot and they aren't nearly as intrusive as some feared."

This really is more of a non-issue than many seem to realise.
Anybody who hasn't been to a city with a recent streetcar installation should take a Google Street View look at, say Salt Lake City UT or Portland OR. Then do the same for Benning Road or H Street NE and ask: is somebody going to assert that the Mormons are less protective of the viewscape around their temple grounds than we can -- and will -- be about those two streets?

Comment by Kevin M Diffily

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:39:19 EDT

Can you imagine the symbolic significance if somehow there was a streetcar running down Pennsylvania Avenue from Washington Circle Park to Eastern Market.

Comment by Dennis Jaffe

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 12:35:03 EDT

@Malnurtured National Capital Planning Commission http://www.ncpc.gov/

Comment by Adam L

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:44:37 EDT

@Malnurtured Snay

A Federal agency that apparently worships at the altar of McDonnell. Ladies and gentlemen, we have entered the era of government shakedowns.

But in all seriousness, the NCPC is struggling for relevance. Let them keep authority over the Mall and precious "viewsheds" if that is truly their primary concern. Any future streetcar routes will require substantial planning and support from a whole host of federal agencies anyway, even if just to get necessary federal transit funds. And if the plan is to move forward with wireless technologies as they become more widespread and affordable, then I don't see any real conflicts. It's all a bunch of puffery.

Comment by Tim

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:39:08 EDT

So let me get this straight. NCPC, a federal agency, currently doesn't have the power to meddle in a particular set of local DC concerns. So they're asking DC's locally- and democratically-elected government body to give up some of the power afforded to them and give it to a federal agency.

Or, put another way, NCPC doesn't have the power to stop the streetcar system from going forward, but they're asking the body that's currently in the process of allowing the system to be built to give them power to not allow it to be built.

That's like me asking a store for permission to steal merchandise.

Comment by Malnurtured Snay

Fri, 25 Jun 2010 11:34:14 EDT

What IS NCPC?