aww c'mon, you prefer MVX to my RACeR (Railroad Authority of the Chesapeake Region)?

Very nice.

by RIchard Layman on Feb 21, 2008 3:27 pm • link • report

I *love* it. Who wouldn't rather have this than one or two new Metro lines?

I'm working on my own version using GIS, showing lines I think would be good rather than actual proposals.

by BeyondDC on Feb 21, 2008 3:30 pm • link • report

Where's the Baltimore Metro? The map shows only the light rail.

by Fred S. on Feb 21, 2008 3:41 pm • link • report

Fred: Oops, I forgot about that. This reveals how I really don't know as much about Baltimore and its transit as I ought to. I didn't realize there were 2 separate systems (and the MTA Maryland Web site doesn't exactly make it easy).

I'll try to add it if I do a revision of this map. I can find a map of the Baltimore Metro itself; is there a map that shows both the light rail and Metro together, to make it easier for me to figure out where the stations are relative to each other?

by David Alpert on Feb 21, 2008 3:46 pm • link • report

> is there a map that shows both the light rail and Metro together

I made This one back in 2004.

by BeyondDC on Feb 21, 2008 4:01 pm • link • report

Oh, a notable omission: The Columbia Pike streetcar in Arlington.

by BeyondDC on Feb 21, 2008 4:05 pm • link • report

I don't think the MTA realizes they have two rail lines - Metro and Light Rail - that should be considered part of a system and not individual lines.

The best map that shows both is a baltimore rail plan that can be found here:

http://www.gbc.org/bta/Media/BRRSP_72.jpg

It shows many projected lines, but the existing lines can be found if you look for the gray stations and solid lines.

Also the orientation of the Baltimore Light Rail should be more north-south, while the metro is on a northwesterly orientation (until it heads east to Johns Hopkins Hospital).

Thanks for the quick reply to my comment.

by F. Shoken on Feb 21, 2008 4:09 pm • link • report

Another vote from Baltimore for more Baltimore-y stuff!

For one thing, MARC has vague future plans for infill Penn Line stations at Upton (between W. Baltimore and Penn Station, with a transfer to the Baltimore Metro) and and Harlem Square (east of Penn Station, with an even more tentative plan to extend the Metro by one stop to meet it).

Also, the Camden Line in Baltimore currently terminates at Camden Yards; any future plans to extend it (EXTREMELY tentative, but a guy can dream) would entail it going not to Penn Station, but north and east along the current all-freight Baltimore Belt Line.

by Josh on Feb 21, 2008 4:43 pm • link • report

Looks good.

My critique would be (and I realize that this isn't the point of this particular map) is that it's too busy. If this were a Metro map, I'd highlight the Metro lines, and only 'ghost' in the commuter rail lines and the streetcar/LRT lines. I wouldn't show any stations on those 'secondary' services except for points where you can transfer from the system your on (in this hypothetical, metro) to the others. (note - this is purely a graphical thing on my part)

As far as the overall concept goes, I like it a lot. The idea of upping the level of service on MARC and the VRE to something more akin to Chicago's Metra or some of the NYC commuter trains is a great one.

However, I wouldn't go so far as to eliminate any Metro expansion whatsoever, I just think it needs to be more focused. For example, despite the huge potential cost, a new Blue line not just adds that capacity to the system, it pretty much doubles the capacity of the Orange line, both within DC and in MD and VA.

Assuming that you can up the commuter rail service, those modes should be handling the long hauls out to distance suburbs. Metro's expansion should be in its core capacity. What that means (in the long term) is splitting the interlined portions apart. This will have the dual effect of adding station density and a higher level of service within the core (where transit can really be effective at moving people car-free), and also freeing up more capacity on the ends of lines. More or less, that would mean two new trunk lines through the core of DC - a new Blue going E and W, and some form of a new Yellow, going N and S.

I'd see streetcar service and LRT filling out the radial and more local serving transit needs, as you have shown above.

Great job. It's been fun to see you go through the iterative process here.

by Alex B on Feb 21, 2008 5:04 pm • link • report

Alex: thanks for the support!

You have a point that the map pretty busy. Still, I'm not sure that I'd go so far as to ghost out the rail lines and streetcars. Part of the goal of the MVX was to make the rail lines feel like express Metro lines. If Metro built an express Red Line with only a few stops between Rockville and downtown DC, wouldn't they put it on the map like NYC's express trains are? That's what the northwestern MVX line is, so I think it should be more visible.

As for the streetcars, I likewise think that they should be very visible. For example, I'd put the Circulator on the Metro map now. Tourists only see the Metro map, and so they know how to get to Woodley Park-Zoo to see the animals, but not how to get to Georgetown and so they take a cab. Same for a lot of residents, actually. Georgetown needs to have a circle on the map with a colored line that shows you what Metro station(s) you should go to in order to transfer to whatever vehicle gets you there. I'd also put the H Street streetcar on the Metro map.

In fact, maybe I should do a map that's just today's Metro with the Circulator.

Once we get a lot of lines, you're right that it gets busy. Maybe that calls for a different map approach, like a DC based Metro map that has the Metro lines more ghosted and emphasizes the streetcars. After all, Metro, like BART, is sort of a hybrid between commuter rail and urban subway, largely designed to move commuters from the suburbs into the center city (the real reason there's no Georgetown stop).

by David Alpert on Feb 21, 2008 5:27 pm • link • report

I don't think it's too busy. I think we're just used to seeing a map with only three trunk routes. Look at the maps for London, Paris, Toyko, Moscow... All far busiesr than this and all perfectly workable.

That having been said, I do think by the time the system is this big we will be using narrower lines. It might also make sense to combine Orange/Blue and Green/Yellow into single colors that just have multiple tails.

by BeyondDC on Feb 21, 2008 6:14 pm • link • report

My comment about it being too busy wasn't so much from a purely visual standpoint, but from an end user's point of view. That, of course, depends on what the end use is. For the purposes of talking about future transit improvements, it's fine. However, I don't know that it conveys (or emphasizes) the right information for other purposes - that was my point.

For example, the commuter lines read as the equivalent to Metro lines. Even with the hypothetical increases in service, that won't be the case.

The streetcar lines are better, I think, because it shows more that they are there, rather than the full details of the system. The line width differentiates them from the Metro lines. If I'm riding Metro for the first time, I'd want to know that those services are there, but I wouldn't want to be confused as to what exactly that means - they are and will be complimentary systems, not equivalents. The routes that should be emphasized will vary by the end user.

In the end, you'd still have a largely separate streetcar map, Metro map, and Commuter Rail map. Either way, that's all sort of beside the point - this version effectively conveys what it's supposed to - I'm jumping about 14 steps ahead.

Also, I wouldn't sell Metro short. It's far superior to BART in terms of traditional subway operations. The hybrid nature of the system is really apparent out in the suburbs, but the core is far more of an urban network than BART's.

by Alex B on Feb 21, 2008 7:21 pm • link • report

I agree with most of the people here, that Metro should be the highlight and focus of the extra-regional system. For years, metro has stood out solely because of its superior fixed heavy line status for the region.

Highlighting MTA track the same as metro line track falsely makes the lines one of the same brand, which is clearly not the case. Of course, I'm sure the rendering can be easily retraced and fixed up according to all these details that have been mentioned some too many times by now. Sorry if this is starting to irk the author.

These plans are nice and all, if I may nitpick for a second, I couldn't help but notice the lack of a Southern Maryland corridor. The region's transportation options are stretched grossly thin, only having 210, 301-5, overcrowded controlled access highways, to rely on in order to commute into the DC area with average commutes already in the 30-60 minute range. The support is definitely there. Nearly 80,000 commuters come out of the area and the place is only expected to grow and all are looking for an easy out. I'm glad it's been considered, and even recently there have been steps to fund a mass transit line down through Waldorf. In most plans, I don't see this plan stressed often enough so I'd just like to be up front here and now for any future considerations.

by Andrew on Feb 21, 2008 11:28 pm • link • report

I would mention that in addition to leaving out the Columbia Pike streetcar you also left out the Potomac Yards transitway (planned to be originally BRT; could be changed to light rail/streetcar if Columbia Pike streetcar is built). As for long-term proposals for NoVa (from the 30 year plan), there is the light rail line from Tysons to Skyline going down Rt 7 (I personally think it should go by Merrifield in between), BRT or light rail for Rt 1 from the Huntingdon Metro station to the Mount Vernon area, and a light rail line from Dulles Airport to Manassas Airport going down Rt 28 (this last one seems a bit pointless to me).

by Mario on Feb 22, 2008 2:25 am • link • report

Not to nitpick too much, but the Engineering Proving Grounds are located directly West of the Franconia Metro on the other side of 95.

by RJ on Feb 22, 2008 9:00 am • link • report

this is great. thanks!

what about metro to dulles? is that seen as so dead that it's not even worth putting it on?

by Toby on Feb 22, 2008 10:35 am • link • report

Andrew: Actually, my explicit point of doing the "MVX" lines on the map is that I think they should be part of the same brand. Separating it means that Metro riders don't know about the rail lines. If a tourist takes Amtrak in to Union Station and wants to get down to L'Enfant to go to their hotel, why shouldn't they look at the Metro map, see a line going directly there, and hop on the next MVX train? Or a student at UMD who wants to shop at Crystal City taking the Purple Line to the College Park Metro station and riding MVX to Virginia? These people wouldn't be commuter rail commuters and so they'l look at the Metro map, not the commuter rail map.

BeyondDC, Josh, Mario, RJ: Thanks for the suggestions of other lines and/or corrections. I'll put them in when I have time to do another version of the map. I'll also try to get as much of the MARC/VRE proposed expansion and the Baltimore Metro/Light Rail proposed expansions in too. It'll involve making the map a lot bigger I think :)

Toby: I just didn't have time to try to make the line from Rosslyn to Stadium-Armory 3 lines (that's pretty thick) and fit everything in. Maybe I can just make it another branch of the Orange Line. I'll try to do that on the next version.

by David Alpert on Feb 22, 2008 10:55 am • link • report

A metro line from a VRE station near Potomac Mills past the P. W. County goverment center and baseball park, across Occoquon, past Burke VRE station, and down Columbia Pike to Pentagon City and across Potomac could have a profound effect on traffic on both I95, I66, and commuter traffic within P. W. County.

Please extend VRE to Haymarket and Brandy Station.

by Steve McLeod on Feb 22, 2008 5:08 pm • link • report

What about light rail out US 29 to Burtonsville? All the bridges over 29 in Montgomery County are designed to accomodate light rail underneath.

How you get to White Oak is your choice. Branch off Purple Line and go out University Blvd to 29, or out New Hampshire Ave.? Go out 29 from Silver Spring Metro?

by Ben Ross on Feb 22, 2008 5:47 pm • link • report

not a very ambitious map. The Corridor Cities Transitway stops are mislabled or completely wrong. There is no change in the exisiting condiitons of Baltimore. Not even the approved Columbia Pike light rail. Man you New Yorkers trying to become Washingtonians really don't know this city.

by Sanjay on Feb 23, 2008 3:22 am • link • report

Sanjay: Can you point me to the correct info on the CCT? These are from the most recent government planning document I found.

Steve, Ben, Mario, others: if you can point me to a detailed PDF from a government planning agency or something, that would be very helpful for me to know the correct route and stops or at least what's been proposed so far.

I've got the next version mostly done, which so far has the Columbia Pike streetcar, Potomac Yards transitway, Dulles Metrorail, Baltimore Metro and Baltimore light rail/Metro expansion.

by David Alpert on Feb 23, 2008 9:06 am • link • report

Steve, Ben, Mario: can you send/post a link to the official proposals for these transit suggestions? It's helpful to see something concrete I can use. I want this map to cover what governments or organizations have seriously proposed, rather than making something up myself.

Sanjay: can you point me to the "right" stops for the CCT? I tried to find the latest official map and use that.

I've got another version coming soon that will include the Columbia Pike light rail and the Baltimore proposed expansion.

by David Alpert on Feb 24, 2008 11:18 pm • link • report

You are leaving out way too much on the Virginia side, even if they are only glimmers in planners' eyes. Columbia Pike light rail to Rte 7, meeting with light rail from King St Metro up Rte 7 all the way to Tysons. There should be some light rail connections considered with the Manassas area to Dulles Airport up Rte 28 hooking in with the Silver Line. And as much of this is pie in the sky, how about extending the orange line out some as well.

by NikolasM on Feb 25, 2008 10:43 am • link • report

I see your point about the MVX. Let's just hope Maryland and VA follow though on buffing their systems. Any modes of transit that can be maximized would certainly be a boon to everyone.

Since you're asking, I guess I may as well include this St. Charles sub-area plan if it helps.

by Andrew on Feb 25, 2008 1:35 pm • link • report

The Yellow Line should be extended southward, to include a stop somewhere between Huntington and Fort Belvoir, along with a stop actually on Fort Belvoir (which would need security).

by Eric P. Roos on Mar 3, 2008 1:58 pm • link • report

when are you going start a metrorail service between clinton, brandywine, waldorf, prince frederick, and lexington park?

by priscilla on Feb 22, 2010 3:32 pm • link • report

You are making Washington as twice as big as Baltimore

by Alex on Feb 28, 2010 3:44 pm • link • report

I like this map - it extends into Northern Virginia!

by G.B. on Jul 13, 2010 5:49 pm • link • report