Speaking of SmarTrip cards,

I recently found out that even though I am getting charged $5 to go from E Falls Ch to Branch Ave in the AM, I am only getting charged $4.50 to travel the reverse!

by Matt Glazewski on Jul 8, 2010 11:25 am  

Re: Smartrip cards costing about $3.50, we knew this about 18 months ago. http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post.cgi?id=1496

by Michael Perkins on Jul 8, 2010 11:25 am  

So staff gives the Board totally incorrect information on a basic mathematical calculation as to the cost of a major new initiative.

Has that staffer been fired for incompetence?

Oh wait. It's Metro we're talking about. Of course they won't be fired or disciplined.

by Fritz on Jul 8, 2010 11:44 am  

A whole lot of analysis amounting to very little on the smart trip cards, since it's only one side of the equation. I wonder how much money metro SAVES with SmartTrip users, in terms of savings in maintenance on all those old-timey fare card machines that don't get used dozens of times for each smart trip card purchased? Not to mention all the juicy information they get about travel habits of individual users.

I would think it would be pretty easy to justify just giving them away from a purely economic standpoint alone, not to mention the improved efficiency that benefits everyone, the more people use them.

by Jamie on Jul 8, 2010 11:52 am  

The cards should just be kept at $5. It saves a lot of hassle with the negative balance issue and Metro won't be losing out on the cost of each card. People will more than make up the difference for the cost of the card. And, honestly, if you couldn't afford the $5 card, chances are you wouldn't be able to afford Metro fares at all.

by Adam L on Jul 8, 2010 11:56 am  

A. Why would Benjamin not know about the reserve fund that was being used to offset the costs?

B. According to that presentation, there will still be $2 million in reserve by end of FY2012. I assume that is forecast based on the $2.50 consumer price. Why can't they proceed with the planned cost reduction to the consumer? Is that reserve fund used for any other costs?

by Lou on Jul 8, 2010 12:01 pm  

Will travelers still be able to enter the system with any positive balance and leave with a negative balance?

by Janet in DC on Jul 8, 2010 12:02 pm  

@Janet

Metro hasn't declared anything to the contrary. If Metro doesn't start to require exit fare or requiring a minimum balance, the cheaper SmarTrips invite users to simply get a new card if their negative balance is over $2.50. Obviously, little thought went into this recent Metro decision.

by Adam L on Jul 8, 2010 12:06 pm  

The add-fare machines don't handle SmartTrip, that was my understanding at least. You have to let those people out.

by Lou on Jul 8, 2010 12:09 pm  

So will someone be able to buy an empty card for $2.50, put $1.50 on it, then take a $5.00 maximum trip, which would leave them with -$3.50 on the card? Metro will lose money this way. With a $5 price, this didn't make sense to do, but it now will make Metro lose out.

by inlogan on Jul 8, 2010 12:10 pm  

Why allow a negative balance? Sure, it's a nice convenience. But perhaps one worth sacrificing to increase smarttrip usage.

by ah on Jul 8, 2010 12:15 pm  

Does anyone really see droves of people buying a new smart trip card for every metro trip for the purpose of gaming the system on the order of, er, a dollar? Really?
Have you even been to a CVS before? That would effectively double the time involved in any given trip.

You know, you can just jump the turnstile if you are among the tiny portion of society that gets off on small-scale heists. People do that often enough without having to go to CVS, and they save as much as $5 instead of just a buck!!

What would be far more useful is if sometime this decade Metro could actually enable us to link a credit card to our SmartTrip card so we never have to visit a machine again.

by Jamie on Jul 8, 2010 12:19 pm  

I agree with Jamie, I just don't see this happening.

by MLD on Jul 8, 2010 12:21 pm  

I'm sure whatever saving WMATA sees from SmartCard usage is more than offset by the ridiculous pricing they paid for new machine, new bus fare readers, and bad contract management.

by charlie on Jul 8, 2010 12:24 pm  

Jamie - a cynic would suggest buying in bulk at CVS.

by ah on Jul 8, 2010 12:57 pm  

I thought about that after I posted my comment, but I don't see someone trying to save a dollar on metro fares laying down $100 or so in advance for that purpose. Totally conflicting mentalities.

Metro would almost certainly win, anyway, given they are holding that cash for some time and some of them will likely end up unused.

by Jamie on Jul 8, 2010 12:59 pm  

@Jamie

It's just silly implementation. Metro made things more complicated by making an unnecessary change. Actions like this are just a symptom of Metro's poor decision-making more than a serious problem.

by Adam L on Jul 8, 2010 1:00 pm  

@Adam L - no argument there. Though i still think that, in the big picture, there would be a lot for Metro to gain by, say, giving them away for free with a $25 or $50 advance purchase.

Anything that increases adoption seems likely to offset the small cost of a card both in terms of cost and efficiency for riders.

by Jamie on Jul 8, 2010 1:03 pm  

Do we have any data on what percentage of metro trips are taken with SmarTrip vs other methods? For bus too?

by MLD on Jul 8, 2010 1:16 pm  

Was there any cost point analysis provided to show that METRO will actually sell more cards at the reduced price? I thought it was more a problem of lack of vending locales, as opposed to price / incentives to use the card...

by S.A.M. on Jul 8, 2010 1:19 pm  

Among all the discussion about the budget, I don't remember seeing any justification for lowering the SmarTrip price. Why do it?

by Gavin on Jul 8, 2010 1:20 pm  

Smartrip cards should be free. WMATA can make the "cost" of the Smartrip card up because Smartrip users are cheaper than paper fare cards. If WMATA can not make up the "extra cost" of the Smartrip card, then that is proof that the Smartrip card is not cheaper than paper fare cards.

by Jasper on Jul 8, 2010 2:11 pm  

@Gavin: because people keep whining about raising the cash price based on the cost of the smartrip cards.

@jasper: they can't be free. If they were, people would use them until they're empty (or worse) and then throw them away. They're not cheap, at more than $3 each.

by Michael Perkins on Jul 8, 2010 3:15 pm  

What happened to the DC resident cards that were supposed to be free and include a smartcard chip? The cards were to be used for metro, library withdraws and access to pools.

Did these get rolled out? I know there was a delay last summer.

by J on Jul 8, 2010 6:14 pm  

I don't know about the smartrip+library etc. cards, but my daughter's last DCPS high school ID card -- she graduated a year ago, so this was for the 2008-2009 school year -- was also a smartrip card and she (says she) can still use it as such.

by davidj on Jul 9, 2010 12:10 am  

That's correct - the AddFare machines don't support SmartTrip cards.

I found this out in a sort of roundabout way. I was leaving Nationals Park after a ballgame and entered the station amongst a huge crush of people. Usually the gate just stays open as one person after another touches their card to the machine. I had this vague sense that the gate had closed behind me after I went through, but it would have been damned near impossible to work my way out to a machine to add any money to the card - even if I had been aware of the problem.

When I got to EFC, the gates wouldn't let me out. And the AddFare machines don't support SmartTrip cards. The attendant was busy talking to someone else and when he finished he just wandered off, so I just ended up walking through the gate.

It was only when I went to the machine to add money to the card that I realized that the balance had gone negative. It never dawned on my that it was even possible - I sort of assumed it was like the paper tickets that can only go to 0. I suspect that when I had gone to the ballpark, that I saw the number there on the display on the gate, saw that the balance appeared to be a couple of dollars, and figured that I had enough to get home.

by Jack Russell on Jul 9, 2010 7:40 am  

@jasper Smartrip is not cheaper than the mag stripe card but it does provide the rider seamless payment and transfer between providers and modes as well as balance protection. The Metro systems magnetic cards are ancient technology which is prone to fraud. The vast majority of daily riders on bus and rail use smartrip already(65%bus and 80%rail). The Board decision to reduce the cost of the smartrip card is unfortunate and unnecessary.

by Interested on Jul 9, 2010 8:28 am  

An important and useful benefit of the smartrip card was the ability to allow people to go negative once in bus and rail mode before having to reload. Sort of a guaranteed ride home. One unfortunate result of this price reduction maybe the elimination of this feature.

by Interested on Jul 9, 2010 8:34 am  

@Interested

Wow, I'm surprised that bus number isn't higher given the fact that you can't get a transfer w/o SmarTrip. Though I would guess a larger percentage of people use bus passes so those together might bring the percentage using cash down to the rail level.

by MLD on Jul 9, 2010 8:37 am  

@MLD Yes about 20% of regular bus riders are using the weekly pass. Additionally smartrip usage lags in Montgomery Co. where Ride On fare policy has resulted in lower smartrip penetration. Metro provides a number of rides from its Montgomery bus division. Pass use increased about 5% when transfers became available only on Smartrip.

by Interested on Jul 9, 2010 9:35 am  

The reserve fund for Smartrip does not represent a net between the cost of the card and the fee charged. The entire charge is credited to the reserve and new inventory is purchased by using the reserve. That is slightly different from the way the account is being portrayed although the net result may ultimately be the same.

The Metro Board would have you believe that using a so called bank card/open system card will be a panacea for Metro. That is far from the truth. The current system upgrades will enable the metro system to accept additional 14443 contactless cards. However, that acceptance is not automatic or free . The Smartrip is a 14443 card, very fast and durable. Re-formating and the addition of multiple products on the Smartrip will likely slow the functioning of the card and increase the error rate.

by Interested on Jul 9, 2010 9:51 am  

How much would it cost to trash the whole system and start over with a system comparable to that of london or berlin ?

What ever happen to paper smartrip cards.

WMATA could also come up with new good looking designs or form factors (rings, watches etc.) for smartrip cards and charge a premium for them and thus that premium could subsidize the cheaper ones.

I for-one would love a new design, I had the nationals ones and they broke; I would pay a premium to get a new design that does not include the face of a person or the current ugly ass design. My family has ended up painting the cards so we could tell which card is who's they should have atleast 3 to 4 designs to give people a choice.

If they want the penetration of smartrip cards to go higher they will have to either lower the cost of them or give a true benefit and right now the only benefit are transfers and discounts.

They will either have to get all passes and perhaps open the cards up to more than just transit fares like what is done in many Asian cities. You will should be able to buy/add fare to the cards at more convenient locations which are not a grocery store, bus, train station their should be places on the street like with lightrail and tram systems.

by kk on Jul 9, 2010 10:38 am  

If the aim of the smarttrip cards is to keep costs down and to incentivize use of the Metro system, then the cards should be free (in that you pay $5-10 for the card and it comes with that value on the card). The individual cost of each card will made more than covered by the use of the card over the long term. This a basic business strategy of selling something below cost, so that customers will spend more (and more often) on other things. Also, Metro should try to expand use of the cards beyond its system, similar to the Octopus card in Hong Kong, where you can use for transit and to buy things at 7-Eleven or fast food establishments.

by Ryan on Jul 9, 2010 10:42 am  

If Metro is serious about pushing SmarTrip cards, I would like to see a fee on paper cards. They're mostly used by tourists, who wouldn't know or care about paying an extra $.50 or so per ride. And locals who use them would be encouraged to switch over to SmarTrips.

by Kal on Jul 9, 2010 11:45 am  

@Kal the current fare increase imposes a higher base charge for a paper farecard user and is therefore taxing the occasional user.

Point of sale(POS) terminals in most retail locations are not equipped to recognize any contactless cards. CVS stores will recognize mastercard paypass and some CVS stores have a Metro (POS) device to handle smartrip.

@Ryan The US corporate and regulatory environment make the Hong Kong model or Japanese models impractical for US application. Introducing a cash purse for non transit applications opens the transit system to direct Federal Reserve Regulation and would put Metro in direct competition with Visa and Mastercard. In the long run thats a bad business move.

by Interested on Jul 9, 2010 4:11 pm  

@ Interested

How is WMATA having a smartcard that could be used for non transit purposes any different than any major corporation that has a giftcard that is accepted throughout all their properties which may have all types of business interest and is not a card issued by MC, Visa, Amex, Discover or JCB.

Would you have a problem if WMATA opened retail in the stations and only accepted cash or smartrip its their property they should be allowed to do what they wish.

WMATA could also go after getting local business to accept it with better deals than the credit companies offer small business.

by kk on Jul 11, 2010 6:07 pm  

@kk The value on the Smartrip card is considered to be transportation value not cash as you are interpreting the value. Metro's legal authority is to provide public transit not banking/financial services. Much like the banks found that they could not make money offering there own credit cards. Metro would be hard pressed to compete against Visa and Mastercard.

I'm not familiar with the type of gift cards you are referring to. The gift cards I have used where basically stored value cards used for books, restaurants, or coffee shops.

Smartrip is fare media which is governed by rules called the tariff. Your use of fare media is governed by those rules.

Metro has had great difficulty convincing retailers to accept their POS terminals which take-up space, can be complicated to use, and have little demand.

by Interested on Jul 12, 2010 8:39 am  

@ Interested

You can have separate purses on smartcards; it would require new fare machines all throughout the WMATA system but it can be done.

There are smartcards that act as digital wallets, inwhich you can have 5-10 accounts linked to the card.

When you purchase something you will be asked do you want it taken from (credit card a , debit card a, credit card b, debit card b, other account a, other account b) with that one of the accounts could be just for transit and nothing else; you could add funds to the transit account from the others but not the other way around.

That could used and would not compete with anything because each would be separate but on the same card.

They work find but the only problem comes if/when you lose it.

by kk on Jul 12, 2010 3:03 pm