I had gone to Lobster Truck that day.

A few other points:

The linked article also says they were ticketed for staying 5 hours in a 1 hour spot. They generate a tremendous amount of trash which goes into public bins. 2 police officers were hanging around for "crowd control" or free food.

That's on top of the $18 rolls which they aren't paying sales tax on.

The operators did try to verbally warn the line and the wait, but clearly they could have picked a better location.

by charlie on Oct 7, 2010 8:45 am  

I attribute the increase in DC public school enrollment to the increase in Maryland residents illegally enrolling their kids in DC schools so they can drop them off on the way to work downtown. At Tyler Elementary on the Hill, one sees more Maryland plates dropping off than DC plates.

Regarding the food truck, Tommy Wells is anti-business, big or small. He couldn't create wealth to save his soul.

by Steve on Oct 7, 2010 9:13 am  

@Steve

Tommy's issue was that the food truck was parked right in front of a local sidewalk cafe, and that the food truck's patrons were using the seating for that cafe, and creating a crowd thick enough that the usually-busy cafe was doing virtually no business.

Had the truck parked across the street, there would have been far less of an issue.

by andrew on Oct 7, 2010 9:29 am  

I also patronized the Lobster Truck that day. Like charlie, I think they really could have picked a better location.

by Alex B. on Oct 7, 2010 9:31 am  

Tommy's issue was that the food truck was parked right in front of a local sidewalk cafe, and that the food truck's patrons were using the seating for that cafe, and creating a crowd thick enough that the usually-busy cafe was doing virtually no business.

In Steve's libertarian utopia, vendors would be able to set up food stands on the front steps of your home, and send their clients into your house to use the toilet.

FREEDOM!!!

by oboe on Oct 7, 2010 9:32 am  

@Charlie - How do you know they're evading taxes?

by ah on Oct 7, 2010 9:33 am  

Just a note that you misspelled former Governor Ehrlich's last name.

by Aaron on Oct 7, 2010 9:34 am  

I am still conflicted on the food trucks. On one hand you have convenient food options and on the other you have money being taking away from establishments that have invested into an area and donÂ’t disappear at 3pm (noted exceptions).

by RJ on Oct 7, 2010 9:36 am  

@Ah; they pay a flat 1500 a year in lieu of a 10% sales tax.

Lobster roll at 15 a pop; sell 100 of them a day and that is $1500 in taxes.

by charlie on Oct 7, 2010 9:40 am  

@ charlie Do you know why they only pay a flat $1500? That seems ridiculously unfair.

by jcm on Oct 7, 2010 9:46 am  

Thanks Aaron, corrected.

by Erik W. on Oct 7, 2010 9:48 am  

I gave up with Unsuck after they said that people with epilepsy and other chronic illnesses shouldn't ride Metro.

by Max D. on Oct 7, 2010 9:50 am  

@ jcm; um, that's the law.

policy reasons: this is a cash business, hard to keep records, usually food is cheaper, and you'll settle for a flat fee.

by charlie on Oct 7, 2010 9:54 am  

Look, I'm pretty sure the Lobster Truck could collect sales tax on every purchase and still make money. But the law says they don't have to, and it's been that way since long before food trucks were popular. What are they supposed to do, collect the tax anyway because people complain?

If anyone has a problem with the sales tax inequity between food trucks and brick-and-mortar businesses, the object of their ire should be the DC Council not the food truck operators.

by Phil on Oct 7, 2010 10:02 am  

BTW, I don't know the history but it would not surprise me at all if the food truck exemption were a result of some rent-seeking behavior from the half-smoke truck operators back in the "good old days" of DC politics..

by Phil on Oct 7, 2010 10:04 am  

@Phil, please. Don't be stupid.

This is a tax loophole, and LT is taking full advantage of it by charging a premium price. And if you think any cash business is actually reporting their actual earnings, get real. Do you collect sales tax on craiglist?

The real answer is to exempt food sales under $10 from all sales tax.

I'm sure LT generated more trash than ended up in the river..thanks to people throwing things into the street and getting swept into the sewers...than the bag tax saved.

by charlie on Oct 7, 2010 10:10 am  

Having worked in a few cash businesses, I can anecdotally confirm that they all cheat on their taxes. Mercilessly.

If you hang around places like the Florida Market, you'll notice that *tons* of large wholesale transactions take place with cash. The foodservice business are a particularly notable offender, and in the case of the Florida Market, it's creating some very real safety implications to this way of doing business. A few months ago, two shop owners were shot and killed because of the large amount of cash thought to be on the premises.

by andrew on Oct 7, 2010 10:25 am  

Read Carman's article http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/articles/39815/inside-dc-food-truck-wars/full/ for the $1,500 flat sales tax figure. I definitely think they should level the playing field with restaurants with 10% tax on sales, but my guess is that the current hot dog stands would protest

by Mony on Oct 7, 2010 10:26 am  

No tax system is perfect. You have to balance enforcement with the revenue.

However, charging them more for a license is a way to get around that.

LT probably, as I said, should generate at least $1500 a day in sales tax. That is at least $150K a year. I'd say let them buy a license for $100K a year.

Or charge them for the parking. Say $1000 for the right to park for 5 hours. I wonder what Shoup would say about food trucks.

Theoretically they will pay some corporate and/or individual taxes depending on how it is structured. So the revenue isn't completely lost. Although, as andrew said, cash business can under-report those numbers as well.

My preferred solution is to have DC exempt all food sales under $10 for sales tax. Then do a Roberto Donna on the few food trucks that charge more than $10 a head.

by charlie on Oct 7, 2010 10:45 am  

After spending a month away from DC (on the ocean, actually) I've come back with a set of fresh eyes. There are a lot of things here that can easily frustrate a denizen after repeated exposure - such as the metro's safety problems. For those who haven't had to time breathe, un-clench their jaws, and look around themselves in retrospect, unsuckdcmetro is the best place to find others who are just as miserable and angry about things they have in common - commuting.
I ride metro every day, a very long distance in fact. I experience crap on there often, but I also remind myself I'm not getting cut-off on DC roads and risking my life around a bunch of people who are rushing to get places because it takes so long to drive around here. I pity the poor slobs on unsuck that are so angry that they can't even appreciate a simple glimmer of progress aimed to help them feel better on a daily basis. Are there horrible station managers out there? Oh god yes, such as our buddy Khalil @ EFC. However, it's up to us to choose what to focus on every day - the good things, or the bad.
If I posted this on unsuck, I'm sure I'd have about 20 minus signs next to the post right now because the miserable people that bitch there would disagree because I'm not miserable.
Thanks, Erik, for pointing this out. Let's all hope those folks over on unsuck, including Mr. Unsuck himself, can learn to appreciate the simple improvements. Greetings make metro suck a little less, even if they have a long road of other improvements to make.

[end soap box rant.]

by Matt Glazewski on Oct 7, 2010 10:49 am  

@ charlie Your solution to a problem with a tax loophole is to create a different loophole? How about this: make food trucks collect sales tax just like any other business. Your $10 loophole wouldn't apply to the lobster roll truck anyway, since they cost more than $10.

Sure, lots of businesses cheat on their taxes. That doesn't mean you should stop levying taxes on them. It means you should audit them.

by jcm on Oct 7, 2010 10:55 am  

I think that food trucks should only be allowed to serve areas where there are few to no restaurants. Zones, if you will. That way they will not directly compete with restaurants.

by Thomas on Oct 7, 2010 11:02 am  

@ charlie Also, FYI, assuming you're just selling a one off item on craigslist (and not making a business out of it), you're under no obligation to collect sales tax. You have to declare any profit as income, but there's a sales tax exemption for "Casual and isolated sales by a vendor who is not regularly engaged in the business of making sales at retail;" Check DC ST § 47-2005 (7)(A).

by jcm on Oct 7, 2010 11:02 am  

@Matt:

There are a lot of things here that can easily frustrate a denizen after repeated exposure - such as the metro's safety problems.

Have you really been repeatedly frustrated by Metro "safety problems"? I would've assumed that being involved in a Metro "safety event" would be a once-in-a-lifetime event. You must be incredibly unlucky.

For those who haven't had to time breathe, un-clench their jaws, and look around themselves in retrospect, unsuckdcmetro is the best place to find others who are just as miserable and angry about things they have in common - commuting.

Yeah, that would suck. I'm just glad I live in the city, and can commute in 15 minutes by bike. I can't even imagine having an hour-plus commute.

by oboe on Oct 7, 2010 11:09 am  

@charlie wrote:

LT probably, as I said, should generate at least $1500 a day in sales tax. That is at least $150K a year. I'd say let them buy a license for $100K a year.

Also--and I'm no economist or authority on tax and revenue--but levying a massive tax on start-up introduces (to my mind obvious) problems that taxing on actual sales does not.

I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to puzzle out the issue.

by oboe on Oct 7, 2010 11:15 am  

We can argue about negative incentives for those engaged in criminal activities, but my bet is that when it comes to normally law-abiding people who have no intention of killing someone with their car, a negative incentive or deterrent such as mandatory jail time of at least one year and lifetime revocation of a driver's license would do absolute wonders for increasing the amount of caution on the roadways. Other drivers would understand eventually, and if not, too bad. This is three deaths now, two on DC streets. It's just getting to be about time to take some drastic measures.

Having said that, I also think these pedestrian deaths at the hands of drivers represent a collective failing of a few entities: DC police; metro; and our political leaders. I have long complained that DC police need to seriously get more involved in traffic .... facilitation for lack of a better or more precise word. That they have abandoned traffic control is an abandonment of their responsibilities. First there was DC schools that received a massive overhaul. Now without question it is time for MPD. Next, Metro.

Our leaders have failed for not pushing this to the forefront. There has been a massive shift in priorities on DC roads, but there has been almost zero accompanying effort to publicize and communicate what these changes mean to everyone who uses DC's roads. I'm talking about the shift in importance to cycling. Pedestrians have not had that wonderful push, but we will I hope. Meantime, drivers have been left to seethe with anger. Nothing was done to communicate to them the changes. Big mistake.

by Jazzy on Oct 7, 2010 11:27 am  

@charlie: with 100 rolls, $1500 a day in taxable income, or actual tax? Bit of a slip there, no? Especially when you want to base licenses off your projected number.

I'd say the non-dog food trucks are an 'infant industry'. Coddle them for a while and then get real on income expectations, location requirements etc.

by HM on Oct 7, 2010 11:29 am  

@HM; my bad, quite right. Order of magnitude off. $10K a year for a license.

The problem with the "infant" industry exception is it tends to stick around. See internet sales tax.

So should the policy goal be balance the playing field, recover lost revenue, or try to get new and better options for the consumer?

Given the other externalities (parking, trash, taking advantage of BID improvements) the improvements in food quality seem less important.

by charlie on Oct 7, 2010 11:36 am  

Erik, FWIW, there is a more up to date TBD link on the Dupont Circle death.

by Jazzy on Oct 7, 2010 11:44 am  

Pedestrians have not had that wonderful push, but we will I hope. Meantime, drivers have been left to seethe with anger. Nothing was done to communicate to them the changes. Big mistake.

I don't disagree with the general thrust of your comments, but I'm not sure what driver anger has to do with anything here. Seems to me, the folks doing the killing were just shitfaced drunk or distracted. So drivers can be as angry as they like, or not as the case may be. It's irrelevant.

Only a psychopath kills intentionally, there just aren't a whole lot of those out there, and the ones that are prefer methods a bit more intimate than running someone down with an auto.

by oboe on Oct 7, 2010 1:20 pm  

Right the Adams Morgan death and this one might not have to do directly with the things I talked about in my first comment. But what I meant by my comment is that the lack of publicizing and the lack of communication about the change of priority and the police abandonment of their responsibility on the roadways contributes to a very very lax experience driving, and contributes to general lawlessness and demonstrations of impatience and anger. But the whole drinking thing yes, that does factor in to our leaders' roles.

by Jazzy on Oct 7, 2010 1:39 pm  

Right, and because we the drivers are not psychopath, even when we kill, a negative incentive, a deterrent WOULD have an impact on us. It would work. I have no doubt.

by Jazzy on Oct 7, 2010 1:41 pm  

I think the most effective deterrent would be to impose a lifetime ban against first time offenders caught blowing DUI levels. No one thinks they're going to kill someone drunk behind the wheel--they're especially unlikely to think this *while* they've been drinking.

Of course, many Americans feel that the privilege of driving is the most sacred right that we hold, all others being negotiable. So I won't hold my breath on that happening any time soon. We'll probably see an imposition of the death penalty for DWI/DUI before we see mandatory license revocation.

by oboe on Oct 7, 2010 1:59 pm  

I'll offer an off-the-cuff commendation for the morning-shift station manager at the NY Ave station. He's usually up and about by the turnstiles during the morning rush, and greets/helps riders as they arrive.

by andrew on Oct 7, 2010 2:39 pm  

All I can say is, I'm glad the hit-and-run wasn't caused by a food truck.

by A. Non on Oct 7, 2010 3:46 pm