Comments on What's wrong with 17th Street? - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by Mark

Wed, 02 Jul 2008 16:54:07 EDT

A lot of this has already been said, but: The sidewalk width is too small and out of scale with the width of the street, the rents are too high ($75/sf triple net?!) to allow business diversity, the CVS and Safeway anchors suffer from bad architecture and don't engage the street, and there's a lot of design/finish discord which reads as visual clutter.

Comment by MZ

Wed, 21 May 2008 14:35:28 EDT

Safeway doesn't get it. It's too bad. They did a horrible renovation two years ago. I feel that 17th Street property owners (there are really only like three) need to embrace retail encumbation as their niche. This is what happened with Universal Gear, Reincarnations and Circle Boutique. They made it! They started retail businesses and survived the painful early years. They then moved to better retail spaces on 14th Street. The spaces are better on 14th. Period. Any successful retailer would rather be located there. Especially now with all the press that cooridor gets. An encubator type street would be awesome! The excitement of new start up businesses is immense. Entrepreneurs can cut their initial risk by leasing smaller spaces and if they take off they can move. 17th Street could sort of be inbetween vending at public markets and having an inline location in a commercial district with better buildings and accessability to the rest of the city. I think that would add buzz and foot traffic to the street.

Comment by David Alpert

Wed, 21 May 2008 11:16:10 EDT

Maybe instead of opening the wall, Safeway could put produce outside, like the grocery stores in New York do. That would make the sidewalk inviting, draw casual shoppers into the store, and even give them more room to sell more food.

Comment by Heather

Wed, 21 May 2008 11:01:46 EDT

Don't forget about Floriana's and Hank's, two great restaurants that keep the neighborhood active during warm weather. As for the narrow sidewalks in some pockets, look at Adams Morgan - they have the worst sidewalks ever - & it doesn't seem to have slowed that neighborhood down. Not to say that I wouldn't appreciate improved sidewalks on 17th, I just don't think it's the downfall of the strip :) As for Safeway, it would be wonderful if it looked as pretty as WFM on P St., but where preytell would they put all the dairy if they opened up that wall?

Comment by pt

Wed, 21 May 2008 08:17:17 EDT

the 17th street strip has really become dumpy - there used to be a time when retail like Reincarnatinos, Universal Gear were anchors. CVS as an anchor? Who cares ... and how long are those crappy restaurants going to survive? It's either high end Komi or losers like Cantina Frontera. I agree with the article that the architecture makes it all seems like an afterthought ...

Comment by Richard Layman

Sat, 12 Apr 2008 22:12:23 EDT

Re: 17th Street may be a fine size, and I like having neighborhood-serving retail. But it also seems to be the constant neighborhood problem area. So what are the problems? Having worked at 16th and P 17 to 20 years ago, I imagine it has to do with the nightlife establishments, noise, etc. And the disconnect in demographics between the people who live in the area, generally people with a lot of money, and people who age, vs. the people who patronize the nightime economy, who age out too, but "stay the same age and behavior" because the demographic gets replenished. Anyway, working a block away, I always liked the strip. But Alex and others are correct, it's a neighborhood serving retail district at its heart, not a regional retail district. I don't know about the suggestion for 2 way traffic. Generally I favor such proposals and such seems in order for 15th st. But 17th St. feels pretty narrow. But 2 way would definitely slow down traffic, although like on South St. in Philly, I don't think it is all that fast now (although it is 2 way).

Comment by David Alpert

Fri, 11 Apr 2008 08:18:46 EDT

I'm not saying it has to be bigger, but I do keep hearing in ANC meetings and the like that 17th Street has its problems. Storefronts are staying vacant, which isn't happening elsewhere; businesses say they are having trouble staying in business; and there's constant fighting between neighbors and businesses. 17th Street may be a fine size, and I like having neighborhood-serving retail. But it also seems to be the constant neighborhood problem area.

Comment by Michael

Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:37:07 EDT

Agreed! It could change not a whit and I would still love it. But if I nitpick it's because it's MY neighborhood-serving retail corridor! Since I'm sure Safeway's CEO reads this blog, I have to remind him to put windows on his store's 17th St facade :) I would also like to see better signage for smaller businesses, especially the restaurant space below Cobalt, and for something to finally open up in the Angie's space next to JR's! More 17thSt pix at http://www.flickr.com/search/groups/?q=17thst&m=pool&w=61419054%40N00&s=int

Comment by Alex B.

Thu, 10 Apr 2008 21:07:52 EDT

Michael, my point wasn't to find what's wrong with 17th, but to ask if anything's 'wrong' at all. Sure, there are storefronts that could be improved, as well as traffic flow, etc. You can make those points about any area. There are plenty of struggling commercial nodes in DC that would kill to have a full service grocery, pharmacy, restaurants, bars, and a hardware store within walking distance from their houses. I guess I would disagree with David's initial characterization of 17th - it's not a major retail corridor, it's a neighborhood-serving retail corridor, and when looking at it through that lens and comparing it to other similar strips in DC, I think it's a great asset, flaws and all.

Comment by Michael

Thu, 10 Apr 2008 18:29:42 EDT

Well, the question is "What's wrong with 17th Street," not necessarily "Why isn't it more like 14th St." The two corridors have different design parameters: different widths, different traffic patterns, different zoning, and different anchors. 17th St's anchors are CVS and Safeway, for better or worse. That's where I would look first to address what's wrong. And the first observation would be that neither has windows on the sidewalk; they aren't "permeable." Safeway has windows along Corcoran St, albeit paritally obscured with shelving, but passers-by can observe activity and feel connected. But from 17th St there is only a blank brick wall. Compare to WFM on P St, with its huge expanse of glass - it's more theatrical than Studio Theatre's facade. And CVS (http://flickr.com/photos/mvjantzen/524385363/) has small windows above the two stairwells, but they are completely pasted over with ads. Both buildings need windows facing 17th St. The next thing I would change would be the street design. Make 17th St two-way, to calm the traffic and to increase the "connectivity index." Improve the alley east of 17th St to enable its use for loading. Add bike lanes. The sidewalks need to be widened. The sidewalk cafes are great resources, but there are parts where folks have to squeeze between a cafe and a treebox. And the intersection of 17th & R is way too big; it needs to be shrunk, with more room for pedestrians.

Comment by kk

Thu, 10 Apr 2008 17:25:36 EDT

I'm gonna have to agree with Alex, not every street has to be full of retail there have to be some neighborhoods in the area. If every street was like U, 14th or 18th streets there would be no people there, We don't need have everywhere with a bunch of bars and some restaurants like 18th street or an endless sea of retail like around 14th street. From the way stuff is going now there wont be any neighborhoods around there with in 5 years anyway just a mass of 8 blocks of bars, restaurants and some retail, and within 10 years dc will look like a small City of New York.

Comment by Alex B.

Thu, 10 Apr 2008 15:18:35 EDT

I don't think there's anything wrong with 17th exactly, it's just more of a neighborhood commercial district. And that's not all that surprising, as it's not in nearly as high-traffic of an area as the other places you list. 18th both connects to Adams Morgan and is that much closer to Metro. 14th and U is right on top of Metro and is a much more important crossroads. Connecticut is a major thoroughfare. 17th is just a little neighborhood strip, providing more local services. Really, it's got everything you'd need for local shopping - grocery, pharmacy, etc. I think it's great for what it is. I remember when I first found it being kind of surprised that there was so much retail at that location - it's not a place where I expected to find so much retail, as it's not intuitively located on a high traffic corridor, nor is it co-located with metro very well. But it's a great local-serving hub, and it's great that there's enough local density to support it.