I ride the 70s between Park View and Silver Spring several days a week. 79 is a dream; 70/71 quite the opposite.

If they were enforced (unlike the downtown 7th/9th street lanes), dedicated lanes for Georgia Ave buses around Howard (or all through the corridor) would be a dream. Given that half of the neighborhood is HU surface parking lots, it seems we could probably forego the metered parking along Georgia.

Where do I sign up?

by Patrick on Nov 18, 2010 10:52 am  

What, exactly, is "passive traffic signal priority?"

by Stanton Park on Nov 18, 2010 11:07 am  

@Stanton Park

Passive traffic signal priority means doing things like timing lights on a traffic corridor to correspond with average bus speed (rather than average car traffic speed), prioritizing heavy transit corridors over other roads using signaling, etc.

ACTIVE traffic signal priority would be something like a traffic signal that detects that a bus is approaching and can give an early green light or hold a green light for longer to allow the bus to go through.

http://www.fta.dot.gov/research_4359.html

by MLD on Nov 18, 2010 11:23 am  

On one hand I agree with signal priority on the other hand I dont.

1 It will cause people to run across streets trying to cross before the bus passes the stop when before they would have the traffic light turn red for the bus. This happens a lot on streets where lines cross each other.

2 What will stop a bus from blowing pass a stop when people are there I have seen it done many times.

by kk on Nov 18, 2010 11:30 am  

@kk

You move the bus stops so they are AFTER traffic lights rather than before them. Any intersection where you have active signal priority would have to have the stop be after the light rather than before it.

by MLD on Nov 18, 2010 11:38 am  

@MLD

And what about the next light some blocks have lights every block.

by kk on Nov 18, 2010 11:51 am  

@MLD

Thanks. I've heard of signal priority before, but I hadn't heard of passive signal priority. When I Googled it, I got abstracts of articles I would have had to pay to read.

Does passive signal priority work? It would seem to me that when buses stop to drop off and pick up passengers it adds a huge amount of randomness to the travel time. This can average out over a bus route, but I'm not sure how this would work intersection to intersection.

I know where signals are timed so non-stopping vehicles can hit a wave of green lights if they travel at the speed limit, but how does this work with vehicles that stop for random amounts of time along the way?

by Stanton Park on Nov 18, 2010 11:51 am  

@ kk

Some streets have lights every block.

by kk on Nov 18, 2010 11:54 am  

What happened to our express bus on the 90/92 routes?

by ez on Nov 18, 2010 11:56 am  

Ricks described frequent complaints DDOT gets from drivers who see Pennsylvania Avenue's bike lanes largely empty while traffic clogs the other lanes. She admonished cycling advocates to work just as strongly to defend (and encourage use of) existing bike lanes as in calling for new ones.

What you talking about Willis? Those bike lanes didn't even take road space away from drivers (after the redesign). So any argument that they've made congestion worse is absolutely ridiculous. If anything they've moved cyclists, pedicabs and segways out of the travel lanes. That drivers call in to complain is proof that some drivers are ignorant, selfish and whiny.

And what more does she expect cycling advocates to do to defend and encourage the use of bike lanes? The fact is that bike lanes aren't really under threat. When has DDOT removed them? If the only threat are a few drivers who ignorantly think the bike lanes on Penn (which replaced a median) threaten their driver then no defense is needed. Ricks can sit on it (or possibly kiss my grits).

by David C on Nov 18, 2010 12:03 pm  

Two improvements I'd like to see:

Enforce bus lanes better. I liked the idea I heard the other day about putting enforcement cameras in the front of the bus. That way people will know that if they get in front of a bus in a abus lane, they'll get a ticket.

The second is: fix Nextbus! Ghost buses continue to be a big problem. This system should be self correcting, ie they should realize that a bus disappeared off the network. Plus it ought to be able to change it's algorithms to better predict actual arrival times, but they have simply not improved on either offbeat accounts since roll out.

by TM on Nov 18, 2010 12:06 pm  

@kk

Which problem are you talking about? The people crossing streets problem (though I haven't seen people just run out into traffic to catch a bus)? Or the bus blowing past a stop to make the light?

If it's #1, I don't see how prioritization will make things worse. If you are waiting on the other side of the street, then the bus goes through, the light turns red, and the bus is stopped at the stop AFTER the light, you can still run across (you now have a walk signal) and catch it. This is also lessened by the fact that if you have prioritization, then you can run more frequent service with the same number of buses (because the buses are running faster). But again, I haven't seen people just brazenly run into heavy traffic to catch a bus. If you could clarify the situation you're thinking of that might help.

If it's #2, that shouldn't be happening now and it shouldn't happen in the future. That's a problem that can be solved through people complaining and driver training. If a driver is prone to doing this without signal priority I don't think priority is going to make it worse.

by MLD on Nov 18, 2010 12:20 pm  

having some sort of electronic next bus sign would be priceless. (assuming nextbus works).

Far more important to have that than a fancy signing system as described.

I can't imagine "passive signaling" is going to work well.

What about "board in the front, get of in the rear" announcements instead of those stupid security ones?

by charlie on Nov 18, 2010 12:30 pm  

I don't know about the mornings but I find PA Ave consistently has what I would describe as light automobile traffic during the evening rush hour. Some days I can cycle the length of it and probably count a dozen cars or so going my direction.

by JeffB on Nov 18, 2010 12:52 pm  

Question or those familiar with Nextbus and the DC Metro App: I ride the S2/S9 route daily for my commute. Electronic displays are slated for this line and would be awesome if accurate. The problem is, I find Next Bus to be virtually worthless on this route. I have stopped using the android app all together. I've complained a few times but it's clear they fall on deaf ears. Countless times I have checked the app to see that no S2 is coming anytime soon to the non-express Stop closest to me. So I set out to walk to the S2/S9 route a few blocks away only to have the S2 fly by me 8 minutes ahead of schedule. I could go on and on about how comically bad the service is for this route but I'll spare you. Now a lot of riders don't use next bus so they remain blissfully ignorant that the projections are never right. What happens when the displays go up for all to see only to be consistently inaccurate? How hard is it to track the buses with GPS? Are they even using GPS or is it all BS? I would settle for accuracy within a 2-3 minute window even. I'm not looking for to-the-second accuracy here. I just don't want to be passed by buses I could have caught.

by John on Nov 18, 2010 12:57 pm  

@ez: The express 99 bus on the 90/92 route has only been recommended to the WMATA Board of Directors, which has yet to act on the recommendation. Implementation is not expected until late next year at the earliest, but it's a pretty safe bet that it will happen eventually.

@TM & John: Although I believe people who say that NextBus is inaccurate, I find it to be about 90% accurate for the trips I take (mostly on the 90/92, 80, P6 and G2 routes). Ghost buses are the most frequent problem I run into, and the algorithm it uses to show how many minutes till the next bus needs tweaking to account for traffic conditions on certain routes. However, i find NextBus to be a much better guide than the printed schedule.

by Malcolm K. on Nov 18, 2010 1:22 pm  

I find the Pennsylvania Ave bike lanes to be awesome. You don't have to worry about traffic getting in your lane, drivers don't have to worry about navigating around you, you don't have to worry about being doored, and making turns off of Penn is safe and easy. Where possible, all bike lanes should be like this. If you are biking in either a northwesterly or southeasterly direction and cross Pennsylvania Ave, I recommend staying on it as long as possible.

So there, I encouraged bike lane use on Pennsylvania Ave.

by Steven Yates on Nov 18, 2010 1:24 pm  

I have not experienced many of the NextBus problems that others have. For school, I constantly took the H3/H4 across town and NextBus was a revelation to me. It may not have been accurate down to the exact minute, but if I went outside with 3-4 minutes to spare, it was accurate enough to catch the bud daily.

I have found that the system is much more accurate later at night when traffic is lighter. It's been great when catching a late night bus that only runs every half hour. I would contend that the vagaries of traffic are the root of some of the inconsistencies of the system...but that is purely speculation.

by 80p on Nov 18, 2010 2:14 pm  

I always see at least one cyclist every block or two when I ride the Penn Ave lanes. The things I worry about are the taxis, buses, and drivers making illegal left turns and stopping in both bike lanes in the middle of an intersection. This happens at least once a month. Also, the timing of the lights could be better for us cyclists.

by Shawn Gallagher on Nov 18, 2010 2:16 pm  

@John

Regarding Nextbus, I have noticed what people call ghost buses happening. I think it might have something to do with the run schedules not being properly configured for Nextbus and the AVL system or just not being properly read. Most notably was Columbus Day, the first day of the special modified service. I think they had the regular schedule loaded into the system but not the special holiday schedules yet. I did see that change this past Veteran's Day. Friday and Saturday late night services are still hit and miss (mainly after 1am). I've been using the GTFS data and trying to par it up with the Nextbus data to figure out which runs don't show up.

One example is the late night 7A service. On Friday nights, I think those trips after midnight do not show up. On Saturday night, a couple of those trips come up as 7E trips (Someone must have confused the 7E for the rest of the Virginia evening routes). I think generally the problem might be tied to the scheduling data not being properly read by the AVL or the porting of it to Nextbus on certain days. I wish I had access to the data but I can only guess it might be one of these factors (or maybe its the run assignment data being used that's incorrect).

As for the AVL itself, there have been times where it has been down for the entire system (I think it happened one time last week) or buses that have broken radios or login issues.

Hopefully in the near future, system updates can happen to where alot of runs show up in Nextbus and maybe some improvements to Nextbus itself (internally) to where the algorithm and processes are improved. I mainly look at the prediction data in XML to get a general feel for what is running and what isn't showing up. I have a set of instructions on the commands that can be used to get prediction, vehicle, stop, route data if you want.

by Ken Conaway on Nov 18, 2010 2:17 pm  

Any word on the "Talking 'n' Turning" bus pilot project? Can we expect more of them in our future?

by mark on Nov 18, 2010 2:32 pm  

One helpful hint when using NextBus: If you know about how often a given bus runs at a given time of day, you can assume that one may be coming sooner than the ones shown, but for some reason isn't showing in NextBus. For example, I know that 92 buses generally run every 20 minutes. So if NextBus shows the next one to be arriving in 28 minutes, I can assume that there will also be one in 8 minutes that's not being tracked.

The P6 runs every 35 minutes throughout the day, and a lot of times NextBus says the next one is in 50 or 60 minutes, which means there will probably be one in 15 to 25 minutes.

by Malcolm K. on Nov 18, 2010 2:36 pm  

How about getting the basics right first instead of introducing fancy new improvements?

ie:

- Bus timetable at every bus stop (Clear and informative please)
- a decent map of the system (ie a bus stop in the NW of DC should have a map of DC + NW region, not a map of the whole system or limited neighbourhood
- Bus Shelters at most if not all stops
- Clear indication of where the buses passing at any bus stop are going (ie connecticut av via x, Y & Z)
- Route branding (ie differnet colour, same type of bus on routes...)

Not saying it's a bad idea, just saying that some money is better spent on little things first. Get the basics right first please!

I'm in Brussels now: What i've described is pretty much implemented. About a year ago they started introducing lcd screens in buses showing the next few stops. Each bus line is also now color coded from the outside as well thanks to pretty awesome direction displays that also show colors!

Is that great? Do I want Dc to have the same system yes? Do I think it is worthwile? No not yet. Why can't u focus on the little thing DC please!!!

by Vincent Flament on Nov 18, 2010 6:53 pm  

Is the list of stops for the new X9 available yet?

by Kate on Nov 18, 2010 7:49 pm  

"biking the mode of choice for trips under 3 miles."

Is that feasible? There are a lot of people who won't get on a bike. In fact probably close to 80% of people. To make bicycling the mode of choice for short trips -- rather than continuing to provide transit -- seems like a cop-out.

by charlie on Nov 18, 2010 7:56 pm  

charlie, where did you pull the 80% number from? Certainly there are some people who can't or won't bike, but why 80%? If we're just making up numbers, why not use my made up number of 43%?

And who said anything about ending transit....?

by JJJJJ on Nov 19, 2010 1:54 am  

She admonished cycling advocates to work just as strongly to defend (and encourage use of) existing bike lanes as in calling for new ones.

Isn't Ricks the person I said 'was a gubment official who got it' just a day or so ago? Damn.

Proof that I can be very very wrong.

What an idiotic statement for her to make, on multiple levels. It's like saying during the 1960s, "Why don't black people stand up for the rights they do have instead of just fighting for new ones?" It really is a disgusting sentiment.

And, as a previous commenter pointed out, the bike lanes didn't carve out space from cars, so, what do bikes have to do with this? Might as well blame the LA Clippers while you're at it -- they have as much to do with car traffic on Pennsylvania Ave as bikes do. I guess it's easy to pick on bikers, and pick on minorities, generally. Good job, Ricks. Well played.

And if it turns out that bikers are not using the bike lanes in the middle of an umpteen-lane highway, aka Pennsylvania Ave, then maybe Ricks should, you know, ask why that's the case? If that's the case, and I don't know that it is, then there's probably a reason for it -- probably even multiple reasons for it -- and I suspect some common sense would explain it.

Boo. Hiss.

There are a lot of people who won't get on a bike. In fact probably close to 80% of people. In fact probably close to 80% of people.

If we continue to paint small bike lanes in the middle of large avenues without safety barriers to protect cyclists from very large and fast moving motor vehicles, then yes, i'd agree with that 80% number -- in fact, I'd say it was very conservative -- I'd put the number closer to 95%.

Of course, if you _do_ have appropriate bicycle infrastructure, I suspect the percentage of people who would use a bike for at least some of their transportation needs (as opposed to their primary mode of transit) would be at least 80%, probably closer to 95%. I'd be curious to get those rates from Copenhagen/Amsterdam/Assen/etc.

by Peter Smith on Nov 19, 2010 5:06 am  

I ride the bus every day. And while a lot of the proposed improvements would be nice, I'd like them to get the really basic things right first:

#1 Safety - get drivers to stop texting or phoning while driving; get them to actually stop at stop lights; get drivers to pull up to the curb or, if it's not practical, to lower the bus so passengers can get on.

After that, I'd say they should make sure there are enough buses on heavily traveled routes and get them to stop bunching up. If they're going to post a schedule, it'd be nice if it came close to being accurate (some are, some posted schedules bear no relation to when the buses actually come). It'd be nice if drivers could/would act as referees, so to speak - i.e., call the transit cops when they get an aggressive panhandler grabbing people, telling people to move off the front seats when there's an elderly or disabled passenger standing, etc.

by Todd on Nov 19, 2010 9:31 am  

Regarding the Penn ave bike lanes, I think that the biggest thing hampering use is a lack of connectivity on both ends. On the east end of the lanes, the area around the Capitol building is a disaster for cyclists - security barriers, one way roads, and the crazy traffic on constitution and independence make it a bit harrowing to get to the lanes at all. I ride them every day and the only good way I've found to get there is to go over the Capitol plaza and parking lots themselves, to some degree of consternation from the Capitol Police.

As for the west end of the lanes, they abruptly end, dumping you into the left lane of traffic just before you hit 15th st. At least on this end, things will hopefully improve once the 15th st lane is extended south. (Does anyone know how it is planned to connect to the Pa Ave lanes?)

The point is, the lanes are undoubtably a good thing, but for there to be any serious increase in bike traffic, the DDOT needs to sort out connectivity issues, particularly in the area around the Capitol.

by David F. on Nov 19, 2010 11:48 am  

David F: The PA Ave lane is going to be extended west to meet the 15th Street lane.

by David Alpert on Nov 19, 2010 12:05 pm  

Regarding the Penn ave bike lanes, I think that the biggest thing hampering use is a lack of connectivity on both ends.

I'll second this observation. Rode CaBi from Lincoln Park to Washington Circle last Monday, and this really was the only "dead spot". I rode East Capitol to 1st St NE, then north to Constitution, then took the right-most lane all the way to 3rd and Constitution, NW.

It's quite problematic to get over to the left-hand lane in order to enter the bike lanes, so I was forced to "go pedestrian" and cross into the bike lanes that way.

Rode those all the way to the west terminus at 15th St where I turned north, and took the right travel lane to the closed section of Pennsylvania between Lafayette and the White House.

by oboe on Nov 19, 2010 12:19 pm  

Oh, and yes, I had to jump out of the bike lane and merge right over the final block before turning right on 15th. I saw several other cyclist do the same thing, I'm sure to the eternal outrage of our driver friends.

:)

by oboe on Nov 19, 2010 12:21 pm  

I agree with Patrick. I'd love to see some enforcement on the Georgia-7th and 9th street bus lanes, both new and old - right now it's a nonstop double-parking block party.

I'm not sure we're going to, tho.

by J.D. Hammond on Nov 22, 2010 4:44 pm  

There are a lot of people who won't get on a bike. In fact probably close to 80% of people.

According to a study done in the U.K., the upper limit for trips done by bike if facilities were built everywhere is 47%. After that you have to start paying people to bike. That certainly seems like more than 20% of people will bike.

by David C on Nov 24, 2010 10:18 am