Comments on Weekend links: Be thankful - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by David desJardins

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:51:15 EDT

When I ride a bike, I do stop at stop signs. It certainly is "practical". You just have to want to do it.

(I don't think a full stop requires putting a foot down. Just reducing your speed to zero before starting again.)

When I drive a car, I know which 4-way stop signs can be treated as "yield" signs, thanks to good visibility. But I still stop anyway.

Comment by andrew

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 23:44:01 EDT

Just to add my own set of anecdotes:

I bike to work every day. I know which 4-way stop signs can be treated as "yield" signs, thanks to good visibility. You can debate this all you want, but coming to a complete stop at every intersection simply isn't practical on a bike, and does little to add to safety. (Note that I'm not advocating blowing through 4-way stops at 10+mph. That is legitimately dangerous). I don't encounter any stop lights that are safe to cross against a red in the course of my commute. (One could quite legitimately argue that the light probably shouldn't even be there if you can do that during rush hour)

I only occasionally have problems with drivers (usually failing to signal), but *frequently* see pedestrians look, acknowledge me, and then step into the crosswalk against a "Do not walk" signal, directly in my path! It's as if they don't understand momentum!

Comment by David desJardins

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:36:18 EDT

@oboe: I'd like you to meet Lance!

Really? Why do you hate me?

Comment by David desJardins

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:35:50 EDT

The manner in which Eric dismissed the real story the Post was reporting was flippant and immature.

No, your trolling here is flippant and immature.

Of course I will defend what Erik wrote. He's right and you're wrong, it's as simple as that.

Did Erik imply that bicycles are less dangerous to pedestrians than cars? Not really, he didn't say anything about it one way or the other. Is it true that bicyclists are less dangerous to pedestrians than cars? Certainly it is.

Did Erik say or imply that bicyclists are 'benign' or imply that they shouldn't be responsible users of the roads? No, of course he didn't. At this point we are in the realm of pure figments of your imagination, where you attack people for something that never happened.

Comment by Lance

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:25:34 EDT

@David d, Eric flippantly dismissed the subject of the story - an irresponsible cyclist critically injuring an elderly pedestrian - by attempting to make a comparison between what he considers a more dangerous vehicle and a bicycle which he apparently believes more of a benign nature. Do I really have to spell it out for you, or is it just more convenient for you to attempt to take the focus off of the subject at hand. The manner in which Eric dismissed the real story the Post was reporting was flippant and immature. Do you really want to put yourself in a position of defending his actions here? If you do, then please do so and stop pretending you didn't understand what I meant.

Comment by oboe

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 21:06:03 EDT

@David des Jardin:

It is grossly dishonest to put the word 'benign' in quotes, as if you are referring to what he said, when in fact he said no such thing.

Welcome to the blog, David! I'd like you to meet Lance!

Comment by David C

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 18:08:25 EDT

According to Struck in DC, the last time a ped was hit by a cyclist was July. By a driver was Nov 11. And the EMT feed has been down for a little while.

Comment by Fred

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 17:36:43 EDT

How many times do cyclists hit and seriously injure pedestrians - compared to autos?

Comment by David desJardins

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 15:52:10 EDT

If one is emphasizing that Erik called hit-and-run bicyclists 'benign', when in fact he said nothing at all like that, does that make the writer emphatically wrong?

Comment by aaa

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:01:15 EDT

Quotation marks denote emphasis? Ha.

Check out the "Blog" of "UnnecessaryÂ” Quotation Marks for a good laugh (or for some fine examples of emphasis):

http://www.unnecessaryquotes.com/

Comment by David R.

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 11:02:16 EDT

@Lance

So do the single quotes indicate emphasis, or do they indicate irony? Which one? When you say:

What part of 'critically injured' don't you get as you flippant and childishly try to continue to paint the irresponsible operation of a bicycle as 'benign' and not in dire need of being addressed?

are you using the phrase "critically injured" in an ironical way?

In formal English, we do not use single quotes for emphasis. Those would be "Grocer's Quotes," and the usage is wrong. It's not supported by the MLA, Chicago, or APA. What style guide is it in, then? The house style guide for the American Association for the Gross Misuse of Punctuation Marks?

The Chicago Manual of Style does have this to say about quotes to indicate ironic intent:

6.63. Other devices, notably the use of italics and quotation marks to achieve special effects, are not outmoded but are used less and less as time goes on, especially by mature writers who prefer to obtain their effects structurally.

And if you'd followed that Wikipedia article on "scare quotes," instead of just dredging up the first piece of third-party documentation that vaguely excused your usage:

As political analyst Jonathan Chait writes in The New Republic, "The scare quote is the perfect device for making an insinuation without proving it, or even necessarily making clear what you're insinuating."

Don't try to wheedle your way out of your own words by flinging around comments about bad punctuation. Either you're being willfully ignorant or you're just making stuff up because you feel like it.

Comment by rg

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 10:41:47 EDT

I might not know a lot of 'simple and basic stuff,' but I do know that the Washington Post article about bicycling taking off in the District and the popularity of DDOT's bicycle policies must have driven the "real stakeholders" nuts. After all ,if people keep giving up their cars, we are really going to have some serious motor vehicle congestion in this city! (I apologize if I used quotation marks incorrectly in this comment. But, if everyone were as the "real stakeholders," how would they gauge their brilliance?)

Comment by TimK

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 09:56:41 EDT

Eric, I agree that the Post has a hard time differentiating between cars and drivers.

But, more to the point of this incident, bikers in the Washington area (certainly not all of them) have a hard time respecting pedestrians. In fact, if I was going to overgeneralize, bikers treat pedestrians here the way drivers treat bikers.

I say here, as I just spent a week in London. It had been nearly ten years since I was last there, and I was impressed with the explosion of bike riders and bike infrastructure. I was also impressed with how often bicyclists and auto drivers routinely stopped for pedestrians.

This incident is a tragic reminder that this is not the case in Washington. That's a far more important and immediate issue than GGW's (quite legitimate) beef with the Post and other major media outlets persistent refusal to acknowledge cars don't drive themselves.

Comment by Lance

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 08:29:14 EDT

From Wikipedia:

Irony
Main article: Scare quotes
Another common use of quotation marks is to indicate or call attention to ironic or apologetic words:
He shared his "wisdom" with me.The lunch lady plopped a glob of "food" onto my tray.The person used "intellect" to speak.To avoid the potential for confusion between ironic quotes and direct quotations, some style guides specify single quotation marks for this usage, and double quotation marks for verbatim speech. Quotes indicating irony, or other special use, are sometimes called scare, sneer, shock, distance, or horror quotes. They are sometimes gestured in oral speech using air quotes.

Comment by Lance

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 08:12:10 EDT

*Tregoning

Comment by Lance

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 08:10:55 EDT

@David d, Single quotes denote emphasis. Double quotes mean verbatim quoting. I'm constantly amazed at how some of the folks on here who think they know what is best for the rest of us - like their heros Fenty, Klein, and Training - don't know simple and basic stuff ... like this.

Comment by David desJardins

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 05:02:46 EDT

you flippant and childishly try to continue to paint the irresponsible operation of a bicycle as 'benign' and not in dire need of being addressed?

This is a lie. Erik never said any such thing. It is grossly dishonest to put the word 'benign' in quotes, as if you are referring to what he said, when in fact he said no such thing.

Comment by Lance

Sun, 28 Nov 2010 02:00:27 EDT

@Erik, Mike is right . And your standing by your earlier flippant and childish statement just shows you really don't get it. What part of 'critically injured' don't you get as you flippant and childishly try to continue to paint the irresponsible operation of a bicycle as 'benign' and not in dire need of being addressed?

Comment by Erik Weber

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 23:20:20 EDT

@Mike: My comment was in no way intended to make light of a very serious situation. Quite the opposite, I'm very glad to see that the Post is willing to recognize the culpability of an individual who was steering a vehicle, and only wish they would do the same with individuals steering significantly larger, more deadly vehicles.

Comment by Matt Johnson

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 23:01:47 EDT

@David C:
Jay's comment has already been deleted.

Comment by David C

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 23:00:24 EDT

So is it just me or is Jay's comment wildly inappropriate?

Comment by Mike Silverstein

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 19:53:08 EDT

"A man on a bicycle struck an elderly couple walking in an alley, injuring them both, the man critically. The Post acknowledges that Police are "seeking a bicyclist." Now if only they'd acknowledge that cars, too, don't drive themselves."

Eric, an elderly man is in critical condition because some damned fool on a bicycle hit him and his partner and then fled the scene. And the only comment you have is some vapid observation about the Washington Post. You can do better, and can start by showing either maturity or compassion. Maybe even both.

Comment by David desJardins

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:45:04 EDT

Some people are thinking he's deliberately delaying decisions that he knows will be unpopular with a significant number of people who voted for him.

Comment by TM

Sat, 27 Nov 2010 16:33:39 EDT

"Some officials say this is a problem, others say it's just a manifestation of his different leadership style."

Those are not mutually exclusive observations.