Transit
ANC making unfair demands on Georgetown transportation
Monday night, Georgetown ANC approved recommendations concerning the University's 10 Year Campus Plan. This includes the usual complaints about students living off-campus, but also dedicates four pages to concerns about transportation-related issues including objections to campus shuttles traversing the neighborhood.
GUTS bus. Image from Georgetown University.
Neighbors have long complained that the free Georgetown University Transportation Shuttle buses to Dupont Circle rattle their houses. In response, some neighbors have lobbied the university to keep the GUTS buses off Reservoir Road and Q Street, the most direct route to Dupont, even though Metrobuses run on the same streets.
Instead, neighbors have asked the university to route all Dupont shuttles through the Canal Road entrance, which requires construction of a north-south roadway on campus so that the buses can turn around.
The university included this construction initiative in the Campus Plan. But the ANC's draft proposal asks that the university begin making changes immediately, while also limiting student parking in off-campus neighborhoods. These demands are excessive, and even previous compromises seem to have been made without student and staff transportation needs in mind.
Canal Road entrance
Routing the Dupont GUTS bus out of Canal Road makes it far more difficult to get to Dupont in a reasonable time. When the University Office of Transportation Management devised new routes in 2009, it tested routes down the Whitehurst Freeway.
This route is not only longer than the current rush-hour route on Q Street, but it also traverses some high-traffic areas. Of course, the current compromise route, which sends buses up Wisconsin Ave during non-rush hour traffic, is also circuitous and inconvenient. But routing the buses down Whitehurst would be even worse.
Q Street GUTS route (blue), detour up Wisconsin (red), and proposed Whitehurst route (purple).
Much larger Metrobuses also run on Reservoir Road and Q Street, and neighbors tolerate those buses on their streets. But as ANC Chair Ron Lewis told the Voice on Thursday, "The only reason the Metrobuses are on [residential] streets is that they serve stops along those roads, which are very valuable to the community."
GUTS buses are valuable for other reasons. GUTS buses are an extensive enough fleet with a short enough route that they're remarkably punctual. They run every 20 minutes during calm times and every five minutes during rush hour.
Also, they're free. Taking a D6 to and from the Dupont Metro stop every day of the workweek is $60 a month The rest are MedStar Employees (32 percent), staff (29 percent), faculty (10 percent) or other (2 percent). Of the respondents, 53 percent rode the GUTS bus five times a week. I ask Mr. Lewis to expand his definition of "community" to include the people who staff his hospital, the people who work at his neighborhood's largest employer, and the 6,000 students that make up about 40 percent of his constituency.
The inconvenience of GUTS buses on residential streets pales in comparison to the inconvenience that the ANC's demands cause for students, staff, hospital workers, and community members who benefit from the shorter Dupont route. Another possible compromise would be to combine the Dupont GUTS route and the D bus, if WMATA could work out a way for Georgetown to pay for its students and employees to get a free ride and add more frequency on the D. This would make the current shuttles also serve the community, and thereby become valuable in Mr. Lewis's eyes.
However, the GUTS buses are more on-time than the D, and run every 5 minutes during rush hour. Merging the Dupont shuttle with the D bus could be better than rerouting the Dupont shuttle down Whitehurst, but still worse than the current buses running down Q Street.
Additional demands Unfortunately, the university conceded the arguments about Canal Road early in the negotiations. The Campus Plan already does exactly what the ANC is proposing However, there are some complications. For example, the ANC is unhappy with the actual blueprint of the western portion of the north-south roadway, fearing "environmental concerns and a lengthy and uncertain National Park Service approval process." The commissioners ask the university to consider another location for the loop road or a north-south road with a turnaround at the northern end. Also, a year is still too long to wait. In the meantime, the ANC asks the university to find ways to route buses out of the Canal Road entrance using existing space. They suggest, "If necessary, buses with a relatively short turning radius could be obtained; or turntable technology is available to turn buses around in a space not much larger than the length of a bus. See, for example, http://www.carousel-usa.com/large-turntable.php." The suggestion speaks for itself. It makes little sense for the university to invest in such extensive infrastructure when it already plans to undergo construction to implement long-term changes. The GUTS buses also have five different routes, two of which (Rosslyn and Dupont) run every 5 minutes during rush hour. To route everything out of Canal Road, any north-south road or carousel would need to handle heavy shuttle traffic and turn buses around very quickly, or else the University would need to significantly cut service.
Students have expressed frustration that the university seems to concede on almost every argument, often to the detriment of students, and yet the ANC continues to fight the Campus Plan tooth and nail. This is exactly what we're talking about. Student parking The ANC adds insult to injury with its next recommendation: prevent students from parking anywhere in 20007. The commissioners write, "GU should provide students who live on campus or in the surrounding community First, making GUTS bus routes more inconvenient gives students far less of an incentive to use University transportation. To suggest that the University both reroute the GUTS buses and encourage students to use them more is disingenuous. Second, students are highly discouraged from bringing cars to school in the status quo. The University already refuses daily or monthly parking to students who live on-campus. City law creates additional difficulties for off-campus students.
In 1996, the DC Council passed a law preventing only students in certain ANCs Georgetown students must get a DC driver's license and register their vehicles in the DC to park within the ANC 2E boundaries. (Frustration about this law, which is still in effect, was one major impetus for Campaign Georgetown, the mass student voter registration drive that got two students elected to the ANC in 1996.) As a result, I don't personally know any undergraduates who have a car in DC. Regardless, once students move off-campus and pay rent to a landlord, the University should not interfere to further prevent them from parking their own vehicles. It's good policy to encourage everyone to use smart transit in order to reduce the number of cars on the road. But if the ANC were actually concerned about parking congestion, we could have a productive discussion about how to improve public transportation options. (The Campus Plan brags that GUTS buses keep 7,750 cars off residential streets every day.) Instead, the ANC only wants to discourage students from living in the neighborhood, by any means possible. The big picture The Campus Plan transportation proposals should give people real incentives to use public transit that is safe, convenient and environmentally friendly. The ANC's suggestions go to great lengths to prevent the GUTS buses from operating in an efficient wayKara Brandeisky is a student at Georgetown University majoring in government. She writes for the Georgetown Voice, recently as campus news and politics columnist and currently as its features editor. 
Comments
@ggwash
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by aaa on Mar 2, 2011 10:07 am
by Eric Fidler on Mar 2, 2011 10:10 am
It's the law: http://dmv.dc.gov/serv/parking/Reciprocity.shtm
Like the article says, they'd have to become "full-fledged" D.C. residents (transfer their registration and license to D.C.) in order to get a permit.
by Adam L on Mar 2, 2011 10:14 am
by canaan on Mar 2, 2011 10:20 am
by Lance on Mar 2, 2011 10:20 am
That law doesn't apply to students who officially change their residency to DC. The ANC wants the university "to assure that GU students will not have cars in zip code 20007." I don't see how the ANC can require that for students who change their licenses and car registration to DC.
by Eric Fidler on Mar 2, 2011 10:21 am
Ahh gothca. Yeah... I doubt that such an action is legal, but I'm pretty sure the ANC doesn't care about such inconsequential matters such as the law. In any event, the ANC only gets to make recommendations, correct? I don't believe city officials or Georgetown University are required to adhere to their opinions.
by Adam L on Mar 2, 2011 10:35 am
I think there was a post on here about subsidizing the D buses to get to dupont. But there is something to be said that more/easier to use shuttles cut down on cars coming in.
by canaan on Mar 2, 2011 10:36 am
Why not just have WMATA institute a new D route, which travels on the route of the rest of the Ds but just from GU Hospital to Dupont, paid for by Georgetown but open to all? In exchange, students and employees with special GU-issued SmarTrips get free rides on all D buses.
by David Alpert on Mar 2, 2011 10:40 am
Given the volume, and if GU can subsidize, just pick up everyone at those stops for free, or flash a GU pass to get on.
A big part of the problems are the GUTS buses are far less city-friendly than even WMATA buses. Size, noise and turning.
by charlie on Mar 2, 2011 10:45 am
A. Continuous physical presence—defined as no more than a three-week absence from the state of Illinois—for at least one calendar year as described above.
B. Domicile in Illinois of parent(s) or guardian legally responsible for the person. Domicile in Illinois of spouse.
C. Voting or registration for voting in Illinois.
D. Illinois driver's license or identification card and automobile registration.
E. Financial independence and payment and filing of Illinois income/property taxes and/or ownership of property in Illinois during the tax year or partial tax year immediately preceding the term for which the person is requesting resident classification. Just the filing of an Illinois state income tax form, or filing a form without substantial Illinois income earned, will not be judged as a significant criterion for reclassification.
F. One calendar year of gainful employment in Illinois or prove reliance upon resources in Illinois for more than fifty percent of the income sufficient to provide for tuition, fees, and normal living expenses, e.g., food, clothing, housing, and transportation. Reliance upon income earned from loans is not viewed as evidence of intent to establish residency. Employment in Illinois must be in other than graduate assistantships or student employment.
G. The lease of living quarters and payment of utility bills in Illinois.
H. Former domicile in the state and maintenance of significant connections therein while absent.
I. Admission to a licensed practicing profession in Illinois.
J. Long-term military commitments in Illinois and/or proof that Illinois is the home of record. The petitioner must complete a Military Certification Form which can be obtained at the Office of Admissions and Records [now called Office of Admissions or Office of the Registrar].
K. A one calendar year period of presence in the state for other than educational purposes.
L. Establishment of financial accounts at Illinois institutions.
M. Public records, for example, birth and marriage records.
N. Other official documents verifying legal, official connection with Illinois or with organizations or institutions within the state of Illinois.
O. Exclusive use of the Illinois address when home or mailing address is requested.
While this is specifically for In-State Tuition related purposes, I'm sure it could be adapted to fit DC's needs.
I don't really have a dog in this fight, but it's not unheard of to require more than just "attending college" to establish residency.
by eb on Mar 2, 2011 10:45 am
Sorry if that was unclear - there is still a Rosslyn shuttle as well that runs just as frequently. (And periodic shuttles to WIsconsin Avenue, Arlington and the Law Center.) The Rosslyn route will also be routed out of Canal Road. Right now it's routed down Prospect Street, where it stops at a major classroom building, but the neighbors have asked that shuttle be moved off Prospect as well.
I still think it's important to have shuttles to both Dupont and Rosslyn. I often take the shuttle to Dupont and then walk 10 minutes to Foggy Bottom or Adams Morgan. By the time I take the shuttle to Rosslyn, wait in traffic on Key Bridge, and then wait for trains/buses to get to Dupont, I might as well just walk to Dupont.
@Adam, Eric Fidler
My reading of the plan is that the ANC wants no student parking, period, even if students get DC registration. Unfortunately, there is a precedent for this. In community meetings, some people have said Georgetown should adopt American University's plan. At AU, students can get $75 tickets for being "illegally parked in the neighborhood" "in accordance with ... the University's 'Good Neighbor' policy."
http://www.american.edu/finance/publicsafety/parking/enforcement.cfm
Again, I much prefer public transportation options. But the University shouldn't both limit public transit options and prohibit students from parking.
by Kara Brandeisky on Mar 2, 2011 10:46 am
by Ryan on Mar 2, 2011 10:47 am
by dc_chica on Mar 2, 2011 10:51 am
I can see, although not neccesarily agree with, the idea that people claimed as someone else's dependent might not be legal residents. However, I can't see any reason to treat an independent adult with no other plausible legal residency differently just because they happen to be attending school.
If a long-term Georgetown resident decided to get an MBA at Georgetown would he or she need to get rid of his or her car by the ANC's logic?
by Kate on Mar 2, 2011 10:58 am
But AU's own policy has an exemption: "If you were issued a ticket with this violation while parked on a neighborhood street, and you are a resident living on this street, a visitor to a resident, or not on university business, this ticket will be voided."
So if you live in the neighborhood you obviously get to park there. However, the Georgetown ANC apparently wants to take away that ability as well.
by Adam L on Mar 2, 2011 10:59 am
Note that the 2009 study (follow that link) proposed a very different route that went out reservoir, down Foxhall, and then along Canal. It did not use the new Canal St. exit. So it was a much longer route than that proposed by the ANC and illustrated on the map contained in this post.
by ah on Mar 2, 2011 10:59 am
Interestingly, there is an exemption for students and employees who are residents parked on their own streets or who are not on university business.
eb,
Section D suggests that you must register (and thus own) a car to be resident of Illinois. What a bizarre requirement.
by Eric Fidler on Mar 2, 2011 11:01 am
I say mow down all their houses and put in a freeway just for spite.
by spookiness on Mar 2, 2011 11:01 am
Nope. There are Masons and Catholics in Georgetown. It would never fly.
At least that's what Willinger is going to say.
by Matt Johnson on Mar 2, 2011 11:03 am
by thump on Mar 2, 2011 11:04 am
by Patrick on Mar 2, 2011 11:16 am
by Steven Yates on Mar 2, 2011 11:32 am
by Steve S. on Mar 2, 2011 11:46 am
by Phil on Mar 2, 2011 11:57 am
Why not just have WMATA institute a new D route, which travels on the route of the rest of the Ds but just from GU Hospital to Dupont, paid for by Georgetown but open to all? In exchange, students and employees with special GU-issued SmarTrips get free rides on all D buses.
Sounds great. Except that this solution would not reduce the number of buses going through Georgetown streets. It's not that they're opposed to buses they can't use (the people leading up the pitchfork brigade would never be caught dead on a bus. Maybe - maybe - the Circulator.) - they're opposed to buses not on Wisconsin or M Street, period.
Georgetown Voice: A lot of city buses use the same routes as GUTS buses do currently. Do you ever lobby for those routes to be moved? Why is there so much pressure to move GUTS bus routes?
CAG President Jennifer Altemus: It’s just the addition the toll [GUTS buses] take on traffic on Reservoir Road and small neighborhood streets. In the past we’ve asked WMATA to use smaller buses rather than the big giant ones [on those routes]. CAG has been very active on transportanion with WMATA, but I’m not sure what the focus was before I came here. Right now we’re in talks with the mayor’s office about not shutting off the Circulator route along Wisconsin Avenue, [because] it services a lot of the neighborhood.
They don't want buses on their residential streets, gumming up their commutes (by car) to work and making noise when they're out walking their dogs. Not GUTS buses, not D buses, not G buses.
Also, the biggest draw of GUTS is its relatively short headways. Even if WMATA were willing to create a new, high-volume route (which I doubt) and the ANC were willing to support it (which they wouldn't), what's the likelihood that they could approach the sort of headways enjoyed now?
@charlie: A big part of the problems are the GUTS buses are far less city-friendly than even WMATA buses. Size, noise and turning.
Please explain how this is true. The full-size GUTS buses are not any bigger than a WMATA bus, and I've never seen any difference in turning radius. If anything, it's easier to drive a GUTS bus because the inside is not lit during dark hours, the way a Metrobus is, which makes it easier for the driver to see. Not sure how to compare noise - do you have an average decibel comparison? Also, note that Georgetown uses a number of rented Abe's Transportation buses on the Dupont Circle route that are far smaller than WMATA buses.
@dc_chica: Why not change the Dupont stop to somewhere by the Farragut North metro? That way it's still next to a red line metro, and only has to go a few blocks before connecting to the WhiteHurst Freeway.
A significant number of Georgetown graduate students, faculty, and staff live within walking distance of Dupont Circle. That is not at all the case for Farragut North.
@ah: I don't see why the revised route along the Whitehurst is so horrible--The GW shuttle takes that route as well. Perhaps it's a bit slower, but not clearly given the Whitehurst flows well except at rush hour.
The problem isn't Whitehurst - as you noted, The Vern does ok shuttling between GW and Mount Vernon along this route. The problem is New Hampshire Avenue. Have you ever been on the L1 or L2 during rush hour on those streets? At that point, the trip takes so long that it wouldn't be any quicker than going to Rosslyn and transferring at Metro Center.
by Dizzy on Mar 2, 2011 11:57 am
While I would strongly support an additional D line (the D-1789, perhaps) running from the University (either the main gates or Hospital), I think the catch is capacity and frequency.
Part of why GUTS is successful for GU folks is its frequency and consistency, and the rush-hour trips are consistently full, as evidenced by the lines each morning in front of the stop at 20th and Mass Ave. This traffic level seems manageable to transfer to a Metrobus, but it would have to offer the same frequency during rush hour in order to handle the number of commuters. (The G2 picks up some of this traffic, but the length of the route reduces the frequency and on-time performance of that bus).
@Lance -- the two major obstacles to routing all shuttle traffic to Rosslyn are passenger traffic and location. The sheer number of passengers at rush hour, which would require buses to leave campus and Rosslyn every 2-3 minutes in the morning. Also, Rosslyn is great for people who live on the blue or orange lines, but for anyone on the Red Line, or especially the Yellow or Green line, a commute to Rosslyn would add 10 to 30 minutes to their daily commute, not to mention increasing the fares of some passengers.
I am intrigued by the Farragut suggestion, which could save some time by avoiding Washington Circle, and would provide a more central red-line stop, if not one with the neighborhood amenities of Dupont.
by Jacques on Mar 2, 2011 12:02 pm
While their rhetoric is extreme (find an advocacy group that doesn't use extreme language), their goal of not allowing the University to use the neighborhood as part of their expanded student body is not unreasonable. it's not anti-student as it is anti-university. Harvard has a similar problem trying to expand in Cambridge, which is why they developed a satellite campus in Allston.
And I'd definitely make the requirements city wide, not just wrt G'town.
by eb on Mar 2, 2011 12:07 pm
In terms of turning radius, you'd have to be a bus driver, but I usually see the large GUTS bus struggle on turns. Layout inside isn't conducive to visibility. As I said, they are converted intercity buses.
The leased Abe's vans -- which I sometimes see in Rosslyn -- obviously don't fall into that category.
Someone told me you can ride GUTS for free, which would be nice for me since it stops just by my apt. However, never have done it.
by charlie on Mar 2, 2011 12:08 pm
@thump: It is, in fact, discrimination. Matriculation is a protected class under the DC Human Rights Act. Unfortunately, in 2006 the DC Court of Appeals essentially said that students' rights can be diminished in light of university zoning requirements. The precedent is ridiculous. Would we ever say that African Americans can be banned from parking on certain streets? Maybe in the 1960s, but certainly not today. At any rate, the jurisprudence is here if you'd like to check it out: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/dc-court-of-appeals/1183637.html
by Jake on Mar 2, 2011 12:10 pm
by Colleen on Mar 2, 2011 12:17 pm
But the student parking issue is getting misrepresented here. The ANC is not requesting to prohibit students from parking on the street as is the case for AU students. They are merely requesting that the school do more to discourage students from parking in the neighborhood. I agree that it's hypocritical to diminish the transit option while simultaneously discouraging driving. But setting aside the shuttle issue (which isn't really an issue for students living in the neighborhood), what's wrong with trying to discourage (but not prohibit) students bringing cars to DC? Isn't this GGW? We advocate aggressive car-ownership dissuading policies all the time, even ones that target specific populations (e.g. employees of a particular company). Do we give up on that simply because we are more sympathetic to this particular population?
@Dizzy
Your stereotypes are just flat out wrong. Over 60% of Georgetowners get to work by some means other than driving. That's pretty high for a neighborhood without its own metro stop. And I can tell you that with the exception of this mistaken position over shuttle routing, the ANC and CAG are very pro-transit. And I say that as someone actually involved with both organizations who is an absolute transit nut.
I think the biggest flaw in the ANC's position is the one that Kara identifies: their impatience. I think there is probably some resolution that would satisfy the neighbors while maintaining an efficient bus service, but it won't be found by rushing. One idea I can think of is that could be added to the mix would be to make all Georgetown bound routes (D1, D2, D6, G2, Circulator) free for GU students. The G2 in particular has a lot of over capacity. Perhaps a G3 that follows the G2 route between the school and Dupont would help everyone. It would take a technology improvement and that takes time. That's why I agree that rushing is misguided.
by TM on Mar 2, 2011 12:45 pm
The shuttle IS a major issue for students living in the neighborhood. When I was a Georgetown student, I relied on the GUTS buses to get to internships. I also relied on the GUTS bus to get groceries when the Safeway was closed. The university uses the GUTS bus routes as a major selling point to prospective student. They never told me they would change the route so that it would take over 40 minutes to get to DuPont Circle.
Also, not all students like to do their evening socializing in Burleith group houses or in the bars on M/Wisconsin. The GUTS bus on Friday and Saturday evenings helps get students out of the neighborhood.
by Colleen on Mar 2, 2011 1:01 pm
I went to Georgetown for my undergrad degree, and finished in 2008. I lived on campus for almost my entire time as a student, but during my last semester I lived in Columbia Heights, so I commuted by bus every day.
I was on the bus the first time it re-routed all the way around the Naval Observatory and the British embassy, and it was ridiculous (maybe it was a test? I’m not sure). Everyone on the bus was upset, since everyone knew exactly why the unannounced re-route had happened. Georgetown is already cumbersome enough to reach by public transportation, especially considering its rather central location in the city, and frazzled bus-riders really should not be punished, especially when the inconvenience is so insulting. We all knew exactly how to best get from Dupont Circle to Georgetown, yet we had to stand an extra ten minutes, while hundreds or thousands of drivers zoomed down Q and P Streets. As you can see from the map, the change was not minor – I invite anyone who trusts the wisdom of the new map to traverse it during rush hour, and the nonsense should become apparent.
The ANC is not completely irrational, but I think many Georgetown residents (non-students) don’t see the benefit they receive from the university, nor do they realize that the university is rightfully a stakeholder in the neighborhood as much as they are (can you imagine the reaction to the idea that the neighborhood is actually a nuisance to the institution?). I can understand exactly why they don’t like drunken, roudy, crass, spoiled students (I was embarrassed by them myself…the “lacrosstitutes” we called them). I remember the push by the ANC for residents to videotape students in front of their houses on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights, and I supported it, because students don’t have a right to public intoxication or disorderly conduct any more than anyone else. And while none of this has anything to do with buses, the university and its students are inextricably linked, so push-back occurs reflexively to any sign of the institution anywhere.
I can even understand the desire to keep buses out, because I used to think like the ANC. When I got to Georgetown, I had grown up in the suburbs, with absolutely no interest in urbanism. I thought that all buses were bad, cars were good if they were mine but bad if they were anyone else’s, and pedestrians were generally suspect. Of course, this logic is problematic even in suburbs, but I have no sympathy for residents who espouse it in Georgetown.
Because it’s not a suburb. What’s more, that’s a huge part of what makes it attractive enough that people are willing to spend $3 million to own a townhouse there. And it’s largely because of the neighborhood’s discrete boundaries that it stayed that way and became so fashionable and exclusive. A quick look at the map will show that it really is bounded (only with Burleith is it kind of fuzzy, and even then, Burleith itself is clearly defined). The university provides a rigid western edge, which is in the direction the neighborhood might have otherwise expanded into less dense and less valuable use.
The university is also largely responsible for the neighborhood’s brand, as well as its vibrance. Everyone can see the Healy Tower spire, which is the visual symbol of the selective institution, and then the area (both called “Georgetown”). Students can be offensive, but they usually aren’t, and they provide valuable foot traffic around the clock. As already mentioned, very few student own cars, so the rest walk. It makes the setting seem safe and lively, which is important in keeping Georgetown’s image the way it is. I contend that the neighborhood would not be nearly as desirable without the university. It’s also a community stakeholder in its own right by virtue of its location and permanence.
In any case, the debate over whose right it is to control bus traffic becomes moot when reality is considered – rush-hour traffic in Georgetown will be intense regardless of whether buses drive on its streets. Thousands of car-dependent commuters ensure that reality. Plus, P Street already has stoplights and a double yellow dividing line! No pristine cul-de-sac will be tarnished by an angry bus.
With so many legitimate issues it can tackle, I really don’t understand why the ANC wants to cause the university such a needless headache.
by Thomas on Mar 2, 2011 1:03 pm
Currently, the Georgetown ANC behaves like it's an old village like Middleburg or Occoquan. The ANC should represent the entire neighborhood, or be dissolved. For the life of me, I do not understand why the University deals with these clowns. And I certainly do not understand why the DC universities do not step to the city together to deal with this BS.
by Jasper on Mar 2, 2011 1:13 pm
The reason the school deals with the ANC is that it has to. The rules on the books under the zoning regs and the comp plan direct the zoning commission to consider the spillover effect the school has on the neighborhood. That's the law. If the schools don't like that, they should have made their voices known during the comp plan rewrite.
by TM on Mar 2, 2011 1:41 pm
In terms of turning radius, you'd have to be a bus driver, but I usually see the large GUTS bus struggle on turns. Layout inside isn't conducive to visibility. As I said, they are converted intercity buses.
The GUTS buses all run off of a biodiesel blend - B20 when available. They are not any bigger than WMATA buses, so any perception of more problems with turns would have to be backed up by some specific evidence for why this would be true for GUTS but not Metrobus. And I mentioned the lighting inside as being more conducive to visibility than Metrobus. Also, the inside layouts are different on different models, but from my experience, there's only a couple that have a true "intercity" layout, e.g. separated seats with armrests. The rest are an "upgraded schoolbus" setup.
Anyway, the Rosslyn shuttle isn't a major concern, aside from getting it off of Prospect (which the University plans to do, if they could get the West Road completed), because it only travels a short stretch on a Georgetown street.
@Topher Matthews Your stereotypes are just flat out wrong. Over 60% of Georgetowners get to work by some means other than driving.
Citation please. In any case, I was not talking about all Georgetowners, I was specifically referring to "the people leading up the pitchfork brigade." Them I know well enough to make that assessment.
Also, I can't help but point out here than even if we grant 60%, that is far far lower than the % of Georgetown employees who commute to campus by non-automotive means.
And I can tell you that with the exception of this mistaken position over shuttle routing, the ANC and CAG are very pro-transit. And I say that as someone actually involved with both organizations who is an absolute transit nut.
How, exactly? They're ostensibly in favor of a streetcar that won't come to Georgetown before 2020, if ever? They supported the Circulators, so long as they stuck to Wisconsin and M? They agreed to allow a bike lane?
Now, compare that to their opposition to GUTS here and in the past, resulting in the ridiculous Massachusetts Avenue route for the Dupont shuttle; their lobbying (taking Jennifer at her word here) of WMATA to use smaller, lower-capacity buses on the G and D routes; their opposition to having a CaBi station at the Car Barn due to "noise concerns;" their strongly stated preference for having graduate students live elsewhere, rather than at a walkable distance; their opposition to making West Road on campus a complete street, allowing for greater on-campus transit connectivity and circulation, etc.
If that's very pro-transit, I'd hate to hear what you would consider to be an anti-transit stance by the denizens of "the village."
I think the biggest flaw in the ANC's position is the one that Kara identifies: their impatience. I think there is probably some resolution that would satisfy the neighbors while maintaining an efficient bus service, but it won't be found by rushing. One idea I can think of is that could be added to the mix would be to make all Georgetown bound routes (D1, D2, D6, G2, Circulator) free for GU students. The G2 in particular has a lot of over capacity. Perhaps a G3 that follows the G2 route between the school and Dupont would help everyone. It would take a technology improvement and that takes time. That's why I agree that rushing is misguided.
I think they've been perfectly clear that they oppose buses - GUTS or WMATA - using residential streets the way that the G2 does. That makes a G3 or any other similar solution a complete non-starter. Moreover, the biggest users of GUTS aren't students, they're employees. The G2 may have extra capacity, but not enough for the thousands who commute to and from work each day. Nor does it have the sort of frequency required. Splitting this up into
On top of that, can you imagine what the reaction would be if hundreds of employees started congregating on Georgetown residential streets waiting for the bus? How do you think the residents of Q Street between 35th and 34th would respond if the D2 became a primary means of getting to campus? Remember, this service would have to start very early and end very late - and run reasonably frequently - in order to accommodate hospital employees and patients. Or would they all have to use the notoriously irregular and mistimed D6?
I'm not sure what "impatience" it is you're referring to. It's not that they're looking for a mutually acceptable solution and are just so impatient to find it - they're looking to shrink the university because they find its existence to be an imposition on their landed gentry lifestyle. That much is made perfectly clear in the resolution.
by Dizzy on Mar 2, 2011 2:08 pm
by DCstudent on Mar 2, 2011 2:17 pm
I agree that the ANC should allow the more direct GUTS route to Dupont, but you've painted a pretty one-sided picture of the transportation situation that lets the University completely off the hook.
The ANC has not proposed to "prevent students from parking anywhere in 20007". Please tell us on what page of the ANC resolution any such recommendation is to be found.
Rather, they propose "a combination of incentives, better transportation arrangements, and satellite parking to assure that GU students will not have cars in zip code 20007".
That sounds like something that any GGW contributor would write. How is this "adding insult to injury"?
GU's two satellite parking facilities have had waiting lists for years, yet no new satellite parking facilities are being built.
Instead, 250 more University parking spaces are being added on campus and heavily subsidized. Night graduate students can use them for only $3, less even than the cost of using transit.
Why isn't the Georgetown Voice questioning GU administrators about this?
For a balanced view of the GU transportation situation that calls all sides to account fairly, read TM's excellent post.
by Ken Archer on Mar 2, 2011 2:25 pm
But they are part of the community. A community that the ANC is supposed to represent. Those landlords are not part of Georgetown University. So you can not hold Georgetown University responsible for the actions of those landlords. Legal actions by the way. It is perfectly legal to rent property out.
To summarize: The ANC is holding the Uni responsible for the legal actions of their own neighbors.
@ Dizzy: hey oppose buses - GUTS or WMATA - using residential streets the way that the G2 does.
This is lie-speak. They do not oppose buses on residential streets. They oppose buses. But since that's a silly statements, they pretend that those buses drive on "residential" streets, because that sounds more sympathetic. Not that it is, in a major city, but that's another point. However, Reservoir Rd, WI Ave, P, Q & M Sts are not residential streets. They are major connections to the rest of the city.
by Jasper on Mar 2, 2011 2:42 pm
Assuring "that GU students will not have cars in zip code 20007" sounds even worse than Kara put it. The way the ANC put it, it sound like their going to set up check points to ensure student's can't enter their exclusive neighborhood. It is truly insulting.
by Patrick on Mar 2, 2011 2:42 pm
Kara has already pointed out that the shuttle is a big issue and its convenience is a MAJOR reason why more students don't try to bring or keep cars.
The greater hypocrisy is in attempting to throw up all sorts of hurdles to students utilizing neighborhood streets while doing nothing of the sort for anyone else (namely themselves, but also all other non-students). It's not about being "more sympathetic to this particular population," it's about neighbors trying to keep students, staff, and other university patrons off of public roads, whether in car or bus, while making zero effort to curb their own auto usage.
Simply put: if we were to eliminate GUTS buses and any University-affiliated vehicle from the streets of Georgetown today, would we see any meaningful difference in traffic or congestion or parking? No. For as many people as rely on the university, it's traffic footprint is commendably small. The same cannot be said for the residents.
GU's two satellite parking facilities have had waiting lists for years, yet no new satellite parking facilities are being built.
Satellite parking is just trying to make parking and associated traffic someone else's problem. 'Georgetown is too good for your car, leave it over in Rosslyn with the rest of the rabble.'
@Archer: Instead, 250 more University parking spaces are being added on campus and heavily subsidized. Night graduate students can use them for only $3, less even than the cost of using transit.
After 5:00 p.m., there is already plentiful parking to be found in the Southwest Garage, for the same rate as would be charged for the new spaces. Despite this, a very small number of graduate students drive. Adding 250 spots would not change this, there's already sufficient supply and the rates would stay the same. What it would help with is occasional high-capacity events (including those, like move-in, where vehicles are necessary). The total number of spots, even with the increase, remains far far lower than the amount of dedicated parking found at other DC agencies, especially given that GU is the biggest employer in the city. Would that the residents and business of Georgetown were able to make due with such a small number of parking spaces per person.
Also, $3 plus the costs incurred by driving are indeed greater than transit and do add up (plenty of posts on here discussing why transit is cheaper). A Georgetowner may see a $3 charge and think "piffle! The cost of one Whole Foods organic doggie treat for Lancelot," but for many students, these costs are a big deal. That's why almost all evening graduate students already take transit!
by Dizzy on Mar 2, 2011 2:43 pm
@Ken Archer, are you the same person who wrote the article entitled something like "GU likes the student ghetto approach to housing/transportation"
If it were you, your post suggesting that Kara's article is one-sided sounds a bit odd.
by HogWash on Mar 2, 2011 2:48 pm
TM and I have criticized the University and the ANC with regard to transportation, unlike Kara.
My article was on housing, in which I criticized the University for not developing to support density, but parted ways with neighborhood leaders who want to reduce density through enrollment caps.
by Ken Archer on Mar 2, 2011 2:54 pm
by Jasper on Mar 2, 2011 3:33 pm
Yes, we should discourage but not prohibit students bringing cars to DC. I agree we should offer many viable alternatives so that as few people as possible need their own cars. But that's the exact opposite of what the ANC is demanding. The new routes are much less efficient and much less convenient, and I worry that an alternative shuttle loop on campus wouldn’t be able to sustain high shuttle traffic. I’m encouraged by your characterization of the ANC and CAG as pro-transit, but I’d like to see it in action on this issue.
I also want to echo what Colleen said about GUTS not being an issue for students living in the neighborhood—a lot of people use GUTS buses for a lot of different reasons, not only to commute home from campus. Georgetown can be isolating for people without cars, and GUTS is an extremely reliable connection to the rest of the city. Last semester, I took the GUTS bus to Dupont then walked 10 minutes to my internship in Foggy Bottom. On Friday nights I frequently shuttle to Dupont and walk 15 minutes to Adams Morgan. And like I said, only 32 percent of riders are students. The rest are mostly University/hospital employees. So this issue affects a much wider group than just students, even though my (admittedly biased) sense is that opposition to GUTS buses reflects a larger opposition to students in general.
A quick tangent: I’m very interested in solutions to landlord problems, but just as a visceral reaction, requiring the homeowner to live in the building sounds absolutely awful. With little supply and little demand for such houses, that’d be a great way to collapse the rental industry in Georgetown—though I guess that’s the point. Food for thought.
@ Ken Archer
Recommendation #8 is titled "No student cars in the surrounding community." It says, "If GU students living on or off campus in zip code 20007 insist on bringing cars despite GU incentives and alternate transportation arrangements, those cars should be parked elsewhere" and "GU students who commute to campus by car from outside of zip code 20007 should not be permitted to park in the surrounding community." I still contend that my paraphrase is an accurate reflection of the ANC's recommendation.
http://anc2e.com/docs/ancguplan.pdf
What's insulting is that the ANC's recommendations actually worsen alternative transportation arrangements and remove incentives. The ANC is asking the University to undertake an on-campus construction project to make GUTS buses less efficient and less convenient, just so campus plan opponents don’t have to hear them drive by. And that's STILL not enough.
I don’t want my position to be mischaracterized—I am criticizing the University, I just don’t have the same criticisms as you. The University agreed to the north-south roadway to send shuttles out the Canal Road entrance during early meetings about the Campus Plan back in November 2009. The Dupont shuttle currently runs on the ridiculous Wisconsin Ave detour route. These are serious concessions that affect students, staff and hospital employees who rely on the buses.
The ANC can recommend all kinds of things. The University doesn’t have to put them in the plan. The University should have fought for us. At the very least, administrators didn’t have to concede so early.
by Kara Brandeisky on Mar 2, 2011 3:36 pm
It does not say "to discourage GU students from having cars," or "to lessen the impact of student cars."
It sounds like a zero-tolerance goal to me, particularly when coupled with the next paragraph, which says, "If GU students living on or off campus in zip code 20007 insist on bringing cars despite GU incentives and alternate transportation arrangements, those cars should be parked elsewhere."
I am fortunate to live in a part of the neighborhood (near Duke Ellington HS) that typically has ample parking, except when big events are happening at the high school, but I would never presume to suggest a policy stating that incentives and arrangements should be in place to "assure students, employees and parents attending events at Duke Ellington do not park in 20007."
Frankly, while the "fewer buses but no parking and no traffic in the neighborhood streets" approach seems illogical, it's nowhere near my biggest problem with the recommendation.
I continue to be amazed (if not surprised) at the logical
fallacies and inaccurate information riddling the ANC recommendation, with the way that graduate students and/or employees are lumped in with undergrads when convenient for numerical ends and separated out when trying to focus on behavior of a minority of undergraduates, and with the way that the questionable math and projections of CAG's report and "fact sheets" seems to be accepted at face value while the University's proposal is cherry-picked for potential problems. But after several years in the neighborhood, I'm hardly surprised.
by Jacques on Mar 2, 2011 3:54 pm
by DC John on Mar 2, 2011 5:48 pm
Ironically, many of the current commissioners rent out their basements.
by Renter on Mar 2, 2011 6:57 pm
1) the map above is wrong in that going to GU the GUTS takes a right in 35th and goes South until Reservoir, I think. That adds to the congestion on 35th north of Reservoir with D1, D2, GUTS, the Hardy School buses, long distance buses, + the shortcut for "not in service" WMATA, circulator....as a side point i think that street has to reduce the number of buses. What leads me to 2)
2) Im a Burletih resident, that likes the University in the area and wants to reduce traffic (I take WMATA every day, so i guess im part of the 60% quoted above). At the same time, the benefits and costs of traffic should be shared by all. Seems that by diverting GUTS to wisconsin we make it hard for students and relief Georgetown of traffic but load Burleith more. So I'll support more public transportation (G3, D6.5 or similar) free for students (look at the Ellington HS students, they ride D2, D6 for free). Maybe a way to make it more palatable for Gtwon (south of Reservoir) is to not have stops in the area and make it a Express to Dupont.
by R on Mar 3, 2011 9:40 am
by R on Mar 3, 2011 9:51 am
by Phil on Mar 3, 2011 10:08 am
GUTS buses are already express to Dupont, because the license under which they operate in the District restricts the stops they can have (essentially limited to campus buildings and the transit station). The objection isn't a lack of stops - it's the existence of buses, period.
by Dizzy on Mar 3, 2011 11:16 am
Additionally, look at traffic patterns. D1,2,3,6 are packed in the mornign rush hour going to Dupont but empty on the way back when G2 is the opposite, why not combine them? (and yes, I take both lines almost twice everyday, I know what im talking about). Making current WMATA buses more appealing to students (with cheaper/free rates, express, new combined lines...) may increase its use without necessarily adding to the traffic congestion on Gtown.
Again, from a neighbor that supports GU perspective and without retorting to the pitchfork brigade, you have to agree traffic can be infernal and noisy in a "residential" neighborhood in rush hour (try 35th or 34th at 5-6pm or 35th and Whithurst at 3-4). Point is, its not "loud unruly" students vs. "white rich" Gtowners but how we optimize the transportation, reducing traffic and improving public options while keeping the neighborhood atmosphere. If we generalize positions and dont see each side has a point we will not go anywhere.
by R on Mar 3, 2011 11:38 am
One of the major problems with traffic in the area, specifically 35th Street, is not students or buses but the fact many people use it as a way to cut around traffic on WI. In my time living in Gtown, both as a student and a permanent resident, I noticed the majority of the cars just passing through the area. I am not sure how this could be regulated, but am certain it would reduce traffic.
The best solution to all of this would be a Metro stop. I would love to see the reaction of the ANC if the city tried to propose one.
by Lk on Mar 5, 2011 9:44 am
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