Where would the Washington-to-Annapolis rails run? There's no ROW right now is there? Certainly that would be a great line, but that would be crazy expensive without an ROW.

Also, I'm a bit confused about the streetcars. I understand that DDOT has been rather coy and uncommital about what would be a streetcar and what would be a BRT, but they seem pretty sure about the H St. line, but that doesn't show up on this map (or is the idea that it would become unnecessary with the opening of the split Blue Line? Personally, I'm not against some redundancy there.)

To the larger point, it would seem to me that we all ought to keep the pressure up on DDOT to build ALL the cooridors as streetcars (particularly the K St. cooridor). It probably won't happen, but there's no need to let them off the hook too easily. Particularly when the rest of the map is so ambitious.

by reid on Jun 12, 2008 5:51 pm • link • report

I had been wondering what would be the best way to run light rail or streetcars from New Carrollton to the Woodrow Wilson Bridge. It appears that you took the option of going through Largo Town Center and Branch Ave Metro stations. When looking at it it seemed to me that out there it's a bit too sparse and without a good corridor (you'd have to keep changing the streets you run on, making a lot of turns). It seems to me that the easiest path would be to go either down MLK Hwy to Southern Ave to Indian Head Hwy or to follow parallel to the Orange Line to Minnesota Ave and join the planned DC line there to National Harbor (or some combination: going down MLK Hwy to/towards Southern Ave and then going west at some point to join the planned DC line to National Harbor) There are also some other somewhat parallel routes to that. But basically it seems to me that going out to serve the terminal stations on the blue and green lines is not the lead to the best route (the Brach Ave Metro station in particular seems rather isolated).

by Mario on Jun 12, 2008 7:03 pm • link • report

I mean "does not lead to the best route"

by Mario on Jun 12, 2008 7:05 pm • link • report

So there would be a streetcar running somewhere down Route 7 to Falls Church? That would be better than nothing, but still it might be a mess, not that NoVa isnt a complete mess already. Are there any decent long term plan maps out there for development in Arlington? Just curious, if not I suppose I'll try to get one going.

I wonder too, has anyone done an overlay for this over a street map? I'd like to see how the system would actually look true to scale.

Re: Annapolis. Isn't there an existing ROW going there? I would assume that before 1950 there was probably a train going there.

by Boots on Jun 12, 2008 7:51 pm • link • report

Reid: The ROW to Annapolis was removed long ago, mostly converted to highway. But this map thinks a little more broadly.

As for the H Street streetcar, you're right, I left that out. I've put it back.

Mario: Good point. It looks like it'd make more sense to go a little more inside the beltway and hit the Green Line at Suitland; then I'd want to extend the line to White Plains, but running it up Suitland Parkway doesn't make sense, so it could go to Naylor Road and join with the DC streetcar line. I've made this change. Since PG County wants to have a line to PG Community College, I put that in as a separate spur.

Boots: The only thing I've seen for Arlington is their study of the Columbia Pike streetcar line.

by David Alpert on Jun 12, 2008 8:57 pm • link • report

can we bring the red line down across the anacostia and go up good hope road to skyland town center?

by DG-rad on Jun 13, 2008 9:50 am • link • report

DG-rad: I think that's where the line connecting Naylor Road on the Green Line with Eastern Market goes - the logical route would be Naylor to Good Hope to the 11th Street bridge.

by David Alpert on Jun 13, 2008 10:36 am • link • report

This is a great map. Thanks you for making it. When it's implemented it will be a big improvement. Still, our area tranportation could be even greater! For inspiration look at this map, for a metro area with 1 million people, like DC.

http://people.reed.edu/~reyn/Zurich.zueri_linie.GIF

This network of public transport has traffic density ratings among the highest worldwide. If you add frequency, which can be as often as 7 minutes, it becomes the densest across all dimensions. Three means of mass-transit exist: the S-Bahn (local trains), trams, and buses (both diesel and electric, also called trolley buses). In addition the public transport network includes boats on the lake and river, funicular railways and even a cable car between Adliswil and Felsenegg. Tickets purchased for a trip are valid on all means of public transportation (train, tram, bus, boat). (from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z%C3%BCrich)

by Bianchi on Jun 13, 2008 10:41 am • link • report

David, what are the stops you propose on the Annapolis-D.C. commuter rail line? Is it following the old ROW? It seems to me it would be cheaper to build and probably not add too much to the overall travel time if it followed the Baltimore branch and split and traversed over to the Penn line near Ft. Meade. Of course, this map isn't to scale so I could be way off. This map makes me happy.

by NikolasM on Jun 13, 2008 10:44 am • link • report

NikolasM: I was basing it off BeyondDC's old regional rail map. But that's a great idea.

by David Alpert on Jun 13, 2008 10:50 am • link • report

thanks.. yep you're right. But that's "just" a light rail line, and I argue that east of the river should have more than one actual Metro line. If you think about it, the fact that the first metro came in the 1990s, and that there is only one line (in SE, not counting the E Cap line) is pretty ridic.

one can hope, right?

by DG-rad on Jun 13, 2008 12:12 pm • link • report

You missed out on extending the Orange Line to Centerville again. Please add it, thanks.

by Zac on Jun 13, 2008 3:03 pm • link • report

Zac: I don't think we should be extending our heavy rail out to remote low-density areas. That only encourages more sprawl around park-and-rides, which is better than sprawl taking freeways into the city but not that much better.

Extending Metro to places where the jurisdiction is willing to build a high-density urban environment, like at Tysons, makes sense. If they want to do the same around Centreville, maybe; but I don't think they do.

by David Alpert on Jun 18, 2008 12:48 pm • link • report

"I don't think we should be extending our heavy rail out to remote low-density areas. That only encourages more sprawl around park-and-rides, which is better than sprawl taking freeways into the city but not that much better."

The same argument could be made for the rail line to Dulles then. Besides there being an airport, there is fundamentally no difference between Herndon/Purcellville and Manassas/Gainesville. That being said, I do agree with you in principle, but we have to live with the reality that these sprawl communities are not just going to go away. We should be encouraging people to take transit, not slapping them on the wrist for moving so far away. Also, I doubt the sprawl would push out even further than it already has, for several reasons.

First off, for people who need to commute into the city, it is still going to be a long trip, whether they drive or take transit. Folks who work further out probably live further out already anyway. Secondly, the current financial crisis is a vastly different situation than the one we were in just 3 years ago, when loans were easy, home prices were peaking, and people were constantly "upgrading" to newer, larger homes. Today, most people are sticking with what they've got, or downsizing. Plus there has been increased interest in living closer to work as a means of saving on the high fuel prices and cutting commute times. Finally, there have been new laws enacted since the sprawl growth happened in places like western Loudoun that are designed to keep the unbuilt areas low density. One could argue that this only encourages sprawl more, but given that the landowners there are tending to be more reluctant to sell due to both the undesirable forms of growth and the financial crisis, and the fact that the homes that go on those larger lots will likely cost a lot more, brings us full circle back to the financial crisis, which is a huge deterrent for a lot of people who may have considered moving there just a few years earlier.

Perhaps having rail service to places like Herndon and Manassas will coincide with renewed enthusiasm for bringing back "Main Street" in cities and towns, and encourage those places to reclaim their identities from the clutches of noplace (thanks Kunstler for such a great word).

by Jeff on Oct 2, 2008 3:24 am • link • report

I should give you my own idea for Centreville.

Airports tend to be particularly bad for having a large proportion of journeys to and from flights made by car; and large hubs suffer furthermore from connecting flights unnecessarily carrying passengers from nearby regional airports to connect with longer distance flights; both things are very much the case for Dulles. When I wanted to reach Frederick, MD, I was forced to take my luggage on one bus, two metro trains and only then the MARC train to Frederick.

And so, a solution I envisaged to this was a single track with passing loops, sufficient for a 15-minute service at peak times, splitting off from the VRE Manassas line and following the Bull Run for a short time, before running in the median of VA28, with calls in Centreville and Chantilly, to Dulles. The service would run as extensions of the MARC Camden and Brunswick lines.

This would allow extremely good regional connections to Dulles, and forms a decent solution, it seems to me, for the intermediate areas where development is too sparse to justify frequent metro service. Hopefully some denser, transit orientated development would be undertaken around some stations on the route.

by Zoltán Connell on Dec 22, 2008 8:24 am • link • report

I would add to the above that this would have to go hand in hand with an improved off-peak service on those lines, with an ideal view to hourly services on both MARC lines, forming a half hourly off-peak service from Union Station to Dulles; evenings and weekends at least a two-hourly service on both lines and an hourly service to the airport. That would be a big challenge that would have to be faced alongside the new line.

by Zoltán Connell on Dec 22, 2008 8:27 am • link • report

And what of the High Speed Ferry? Aberdeen is slated for big growth and a water connection to the Eastern Shore (Galena, Betterton, Rock Hall,Kent Narrows, St. Michaels) and maybe even Annapolis makes sense...

by Craig Purcell on Jan 10, 2010 12:21 pm • link • report