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Breakfast links: What's on your Metro?


Photo by FredoAlvarez on Flickr.
Are cloth seats wise or germ havens?: BART is considering switching from fabric to vinyl for their seat coverings because the cloth sometimes harbors bacteria. Meanwhile, WMATA has been leaning toward cloth on new cars. Is that wise? (NYT via Kytja Weir)

McDonnell finally backs Metro funding: After more than two weeks of vague non-promises and "telephonically" communicated mixed messages, Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell finally actually asked Congress to save WMATA funding. (Post)

Henderson getting the job: Mayor Gray is expected to name Kaya Henderson as permanent DCPS chancellor. He apparently never seriously considered any others. The union head is displeased, but those who feared Rhee leaving should be relieved. (Post)

Gray calls for investigation of Gray: Mayor Gray acknowledged "missteps" in a press conference yesterday afternoon. He denied allegations from Sulaimon Brown that he had a deal to attack Adrian Fenty and receive a job in return, but called for an independent investigation to clear up the matter. (Post)

Questionable tactics against Oregon bag bill: Like Maryland, Oregon is considering a bag fee bill. According to one state senator, a plastics company offered to build a new recycling plant, provided they kill the bill and replace it with one prohibiting local governments from imposing bag fees. (Anacostia Watershed Society, Oregon Live)

Ga. driver assaults 13-year-old for asking him to put away a phone: A driver on a cell phone, with his daughter in the car, almost hit a 13-year-old cyclist. The cyclist asked him nicely to be careful and "put the phone away." The driver responded by physically attacking the cyclist. (WSB Atlanta, Geoff Hatchard)

Maybe transit advocates are being honest: George Will says transit advocates are secretly trying to "diminish American's individualism." Ezra Klein asks why he can't just believe that advocates really think trains are useful as one of several transportation modes. As it turns out, one of those advocates used to be George Will. (Grist, Post)

And...: WashCycle makes its own pie charts about bike space versus car space ... Patrick Mara appreciates walkable retail and wants DC to encourage more small businesses (Borderstan) ... DC Water is hosting town halls on planned rate increases to pay for infrastructure upgrades, starting tomorrow at UDC (AP, Cleveland Park 2.0) ... Several GGW contributors attended "Transportation Camp" this past weekend. (Huffington Post)

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David Alpert is the Founder and Editor-in-Chief of Greater Greater Washington and Greater Greater Education. He worked as a Product Manager for Google for six years and has lived in the Boston, San Francisco, and New York metro areas in addition to Washington, DC. He loves the area which is, in many ways, greater than those others, and wants to see it become even greater. 

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@Bag Bill

I am not so sure how questionable that tactic is. Most people are generally against a bag bill so I see the recycling plant as a win-win. Yes there are still bags out there, but the state gets a free recycling plant out of keeping them and at the same time does not anger voters.

Unless the state sees bag fees as a way to generate income, rather than reduce plastic bags which is questionable.

by Matt R on Mar 7, 2011 9:07 am • linkreport

Mayor Gray is expected to name Kaya Henderson as permanent DCPS chancellor. He apparently never seriously considered any others. The union head is displeased, but those who feared Rhee leaving should be relieved.

Feeling quite a bit of schadenfraude this morning. Given that a major block of Gray supporters voted for him no the basis of rolling back the Rhee reforms of the last several years, this is a bit of a middle-finger at the folks who were hoping for a change of course. Kaya Henderson is essentially Michelle Rhee with a better community profile. She headed the effort to design and implement IMPACT, and headed the negotiations with the WTU to get it into the new contract.

Great news for DCPS. Wonder which group of core supporters Gray's going to alienate next? Maybe he'll ask Gabe Klein to grow a mustache and rehire him under a pseudonym?

by oboe on Mar 7, 2011 9:30 am • linkreport

re : Metro Seats.

I really shake my head in amazement at the constant "reinvent the wheel" mentality at Metro. I mean, are they actively trying to be ridiculed, or are they really oblivious.

OF COURSE cloth seats are a bad idea. How many industrial designers do you have to hire, how many great existing metro train designs do you have to ignore from around the world before you just admit that something is a bad idea.

Cloth seats are a bad idea for the same reason carpet floors are a bad idea. They ABSORB stuff. Spilled liquids, vomit, gum, odors, etc.

Which brings us to the second bad thing about them...they would need to be cleaned frequently. Cloth seats is just setting Metro up for higher maintenance and O&M costs, just like it currently costs them a fortune to continually have to clean and replace the carpet on the floors.

I mean, geeez...is metro really thinking about this? This should have been a 2 second decision made in the first meeting they had.

by freely on Mar 7, 2011 9:31 am • linkreport

cloth seats? how can someone even consider this??? Why even vinyl? make them steel or plastic. Anything else is disgusting. I guess wmata doesn't have enough to maintain or spend their money on?

by wd on Mar 7, 2011 9:35 am • linkreport

The issue of germs and seat coverings is something the healthcare industry is way out in front of the curve on. I'd hope transit would study what they're doing. You can absolutely have fabrics that resist bacteria growth and are highly durable and low maintenance. Newer nano fabrics and the older Crypton types are excellent.

by Lou on Mar 7, 2011 9:35 am • linkreport

re: cloth seats. Has Metro actually done a survey of its riders about this issue? I' fairly certain that the majority, if not overwhelming majority, of riders would be against this idea. The current vinyl is fine (I could probably get used to metal or plastic as well).

by grumpy on Mar 7, 2011 9:42 am • linkreport

Totally agree with freely and wd re: cloth or vinyl seat coverings - and while we're at it, get rid of any and all carpeting!

by Shipsa01 on Mar 7, 2011 9:42 am • linkreport

The problem with the recycling plant idea is that nobody actually recycles plastic bags. Rates are currently at something like 3% because you have to recycle them separately from your regular recycling.

Personally I think there is a small vocal minority who are really against bag taxes. I think there is a large proportion of people who may be against it initially and then realize that it doesn't really affect them. The rest of us understand that reducing bag usage by 50%+ is better than increasing recycling rates 10%. It's better just not to use them in the first place.

by MLD on Mar 7, 2011 9:44 am • linkreport

People with babies know that poop washes off of vinyl and smooth surfaces much better than it does from something porous. If we think of Metro as a giant underground diaper, it will be much easier to see the solution here.

by aaa on Mar 7, 2011 9:45 am • linkreport

Talk about bacteria sort of misses the point. It's much simpler than that. If someone spills something, cleanup is much easier on the vinyl seats (or even the plain old hard plastic of other transit agencies) than it is on cloth.

If people have to make a bacteria argument to convey this simple and intuitive point, so be it.

by Alex B. on Mar 7, 2011 9:49 am • linkreport

+100 to "if we think of Metro as a giant underground diaper..."

by Shipsa01 on Mar 7, 2011 9:57 am • linkreport

@MLD; I suspect bag rates as so low because of mandated minimums.

That is why cities engage is the useless "recycling" of glass -- it is heavy, and counts towards a 25% target. Plastic bags...well....I know my year's supply of bags weights far less than a box of empty wine bottles. So, no incentive.

And why doesn't Arlington promote better small metal item recycling. Scrap is a $250 a ton again.

by charlie on Mar 7, 2011 10:00 am • linkreport

How could George Will write such a simplistic caricture of liberals enamored of government subzidies for transit that put down individualization. Wasn't it conservative favorite Alexander Hamilton that championed government intervention in American Industry by jump starting American manufacturing and iron production in Trenton? Wasn't it the mid-19th century Republicans behind railroad subsidies that we should thank for helping to spread both industry and population through out the west? And where does Will think the funding for highways come from, private industry? Does the government funding during the whole Sputnik fear count as welfare, or picking winners?

George Will and his ilk like to romanticize the cult of the individualistic american enterpreneur, while conveniently omitting all the times it was America's government that gave the helping hand or starter capitol, whether direct or indirect. You are taught growing up that working together, one can achieve anything, only to grow up and hear that working together with the government is somehow taking a short cut. While we certainly don't have to ape China's "command" economy, we need to move on from the child like illusion that government working with industry will some how stiffle economic vitality.

by Thayer-D on Mar 7, 2011 10:13 am • linkreport

I'm pretty sure small metal either gets sucked out of the waste stream by a giant magnet, or it gets processed out once everything else is incinerated at the WTE facility that Arl & Alx co-own down on Ike Ave in Alex.

by spookiness on Mar 7, 2011 10:13 am • linkreport

bacteria live in everywhere. I don't know how vinyl seat can protect us.

by fuel on Mar 7, 2011 10:15 am • linkreport

Metro needs to get their heads out of the 1970s. The poorly-lit stations and the cars with carpeting on every conceivable surface don't exactly scream "welcoming" like they used to.

by tom veil on Mar 7, 2011 10:24 am • linkreport

@Thayer-D: Hamilton was a Federalist, the Big Government guys of the time. The Republican party used to be the big government, urban northerner party.

by Michael Perkins on Mar 7, 2011 10:29 am • linkreport

@ spookiness; I am talking about the dedicated small metal containers they used to have on Columbia Pike and also on Quincy; they are gone and you have to go the waste treatment.

Stuff like small toaster ovens, wipers, etc. Fit into a small hole in the container -- not like the commingled stuff.

by charlie on Mar 7, 2011 10:29 am • linkreport

@Thayer-D: Hamilton was a Federalist, the Big Government guys of the time. The Republican party used to be the big government, urban northerner party.

Right, and that lasted for a long time. Pretty much up until they realized they could cobble together a governing majority by pandering to the racist dead-enders abandoned by Johnson. And that's where we are today.

by oboe on Mar 7, 2011 10:33 am • linkreport

How did I know that cloth seats (yes, terrible idea, but whatever) would get far more comments than the big news of Kaya Henderson being named permanent chancellor or the Gray presser/call for his own investigation by the Council.

@oboe, I agree with you except for one detail. Doesn't Klein already have a mustache? How can you follow GGW and not know that?

by Ward 1 Guy on Mar 7, 2011 10:33 am • linkreport

Having just rode on BART's uber-comfortable cloth seats last week, I have to say that Metro should not move to cloth. One non-bacterial reason why is all of the seats that get ripped up. Incidentally, it was interesting reading almost the same exact stories as we have here debating whether Muni was safe or not. I felt right at home.

by DCster on Mar 7, 2011 10:35 am • linkreport

I have to believe that Gray moved up the Henderson announcement to steal oxygen from Sunday's devastating Washington Post exposé of the Sulaimon Brown affair. Obviously it worked, given that this site gave Henderson greater billing and nobody has mentioned the Post article yet in the comments.

by Phil on Mar 7, 2011 11:01 am • linkreport

@Phil:

I see the "Sulaimon Brown affair" as no different than any other type of tempest in a teapot that is inevitable in local politics. It's the same stuff we saw under Fenty. We'll see the same thing under whoever comes next.

The only "real" impact this stuff has is if it can be effectively used to pry an incumbent out of office. That's essentially what Gray's campaign was able to do to Fenty. It's just politics.

The fact that Gray--who took massive contributions from the WTU--has here essentially endorsed the entirety of the Fenty/Rhee school reform package is the real story. Not that some guy was offered a job for helping out during the campaign.

by oboe on Mar 7, 2011 11:09 am • linkreport

I think the worse thing about more people interested in cloth v. vinyl seats is that everyone (majority?) has already come to take scandals about Gray as almost routine and commonplace - and he's only been mayor for a little over 3 months!

by Shipsa01 on Mar 7, 2011 11:10 am • linkreport

Cloth seats are a bad idea for the same reason carpet floors are a bad idea. They ABSORB stuff. Spilled liquids, vomit, gum, odors, etc.

I don't necessarily disagree with this, except that I'm not sure that hard floors are necessarily better. It's pretty common to see liquids sloshing around the floors of NYC subway cars -- I don't perceive those surfaces as being any "cleaner" than the carpets on Metro. If anything, I think they do a pretty effective job of HIDING the grime.

Also, if you've been on the handful of Metro's "pilot cars" with cloth seats and no carpeting, you'll notice that the seats are hard as rocks, and that the trains are LOUD. The carpets do a pretty great job of dampening the sounds.

IMO, Metro is one of the nicest subway systems on the planet in terms of passenger comfort (even beating out several commuter rail systems I've used). I don't see why we're gleefully clamoring to reduce ourselves down to the lowest common denominator. It's readily apparent from the trains and architecture that Metro was designed to be a "better" subway on almost every level -- let's not squander that.

by andrew on Mar 7, 2011 11:22 am • linkreport

@Oboe: "I see the "Sulaimon Brown affair" as no different than any other type of tempest in a teapot that is inevitable in local politics. It's the same stuff we saw under Fenty. We'll see the same thing under whoever comes next."

I disagree with this re: Sulaimon Brown (although not the other Gray appointees that have resigned or are under fire). It's not the allegation that Gray gave a job to a campaign supporter that troubles me (any more than usual) - it's the allegation that Gray attempted to subvert the electoral process by essentially hiring Brown as a shill to attack Fenty, financing those attacks (allegedly) with cash payments, and rewardign Brown with a city job. If that's true, it's an attack on our system of government that is far worse, in my opinion, than the greed-based corruption we've (sadly) become accustomed to.

Rereading this, I realize that I sound incredibly naive. But I truly believe that messing with the electoral process is an unforgivable sin in a politician.

by dcd on Mar 7, 2011 11:43 am • linkreport

This morning everyone is all in arms & up and blabbing about the possibility of new cloth seats on Metro trains; to me- as someone with allergies and asthma- I find that Metro is far more mistaken by having carpeting in it's cars- there are days when I have to switch cars on Metro because of the foul & toxic mold smell that is so horrible from all that $hit growing in those rugs- and they never seem to clean them at all. Metro- please- replace those nasty a$$ rugs with something better. Worry about the seats some other day.
And Metro- please- try to clean the train cars every so often- I get sick of sitting next to a window where some fool has fallen asleep w/ their head against the window leaving a huge smear of grease and god knows what kind of malodorous splotch of disgusting microbes to rub up against.

George Will and company ought to be ashamed of themselves for promoting oil and gas dependent sprawl which actually diminishes their romantic notions of that ever longed -for small town America of Norman Rockwell ,etc. Somehow railroads and transit are now seen as "socialist" or as "obsolete 19th century transportation" - well one day these morons are going to wake up and find that the Chinese, the Germans and the Indians will own and be running everything in this country and we will have become bankrupt after spending all of our money on sprawl and the military necessary to protect the oil supply lines. Will and his co-horts are mere cowering and supplicating pawns of the Saudi Royal Family. If I were the Emperor of North America , I would have George Will and his lazy obese SUV driving friends taken up on un-American activities charges immediately.

by w on Mar 7, 2011 12:03 pm • linkreport

Smooth non-porous surfaces are more hygenic, and easier to clean than porous (e.g fabric). Stainless steel would be even better than vinyl, from the hygenic POV. However, it would both be uncomfortable and potentially dangerous if you fell on it. WMATA has to find some optimum.

by SJE on Mar 7, 2011 1:03 pm • linkreport

@Oboe Feeling quite a bit of schadenfraude this morning. Given that a major block of Gray supporters voted for him no the basis of rolling back the Rhee reforms of the last several years, this is a bit of a middle-finger at the folks who were hoping for a change of course. Kaya Henderson is essentially Michelle Rhee with a better community profile. She headed the effort to design and implement IMPACT, and headed the negotiations with the WTU to get it into the new contract.

Sir, from where do your facts arise? Of the things that a "major" block of Gray supporters were against (re: Rhee), can you identify what we were hoping Gray would roll back? The only thing I can think of is the Impact system but I'm not even sure that a "major block" of Gray supporters wanted Impact rolled back or teachers hired. So what specifically are you referring to when you say we wanted this? Most of us, simply wanted her fired. That's not the same as saying we wanted to dismantle everything she did.

I would have preferred he fire Henderson altogether, demonstrating a clean break from the toxic, divisive environment created by her predecessor. He didn't. But since Henderson is actually from the community and don't seem to display the same sort of disdain as newer transients like Rhee, I can live with it and her.

Also, even you admitted that she negotiated a contract "WITH" WTU. Given that, is that supposed to be a bad thing? Has this "majority block" been against DCPS negotiating a contract with the WTU?

All this said, you're engaging in unnecessary hyperbole that does nothing to foster thoughtful dialogue.

I liken it to "As long as the city was building dog parks and constructing bike lanes, the majority of Fenty supporters cared nothing about the deficit."

by HogWash on Mar 7, 2011 1:19 pm • linkreport

Why the quotes around "telephonically"?

Is that word too big for you David?

by TGEoA on Mar 7, 2011 1:32 pm • linkreport

@HogWash:

Got it: Rhee's detractors had nothing against any of Rhee's policies--they just wanted her fired. Because she was mean and stuff... You might want to talk to some of the other folks out there who wanted to see Rhee go, and despised IMPACT (which Henderson essentially oversaw the creation and implementation of), every closing decision, the layoffs, the curriculum ,etc...

Also, even you admitted that she negotiated a contract "WITH" WTU. Given that, is that supposed to be a bad thing? Has this "majority block" been against DCPS negotiating a contract with the WTU?

Right, and if you've been following the story, you'll know that since that contract was negotiated, the centrist WTU head Packer was given the boot, and replaced by Nate Saunders. This is the same guy who claimed (on WAMU) that all the teacher firing were racially motivated (even though the numbers showed they were not).

"Outgoing WTU president George Parker had told Turque previously that Saunders' election would mean 'gridlock and confrontation' for the organization, and Turque questioned Saunders on his choice to emphasize job security and union democracy over student well-being."

I'm just glad that, in retaining Henderson, Gray has signaled that he's not going to budge.

More from Saunders here:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcschools/2010/12/saunders_its_been_all_teacher.html

by oboe on Mar 7, 2011 2:14 pm • linkreport

TGEoA: Remember the rules here are to be polite to others. If you can't resist putting in a snotty insult in every comment you post, I am more than happy to ban you from commenting. I welcome you participating since you clearly have different opinions from others here, but you have to do it politely if you want to stay.

The answer to your question is: It's a specific word McDonnell used, hence it's a quotation. In the spirit of your comment, I could then add: Or is clicking on hyperlinks to see the context too hard for you, TGEoA?

by David Alpert on Mar 7, 2011 2:19 pm • linkreport

David,

Your usage of the quotes was an obvious attempt at sarcasm, as was using the Waldo picture in the other article. If you can't handle a little good natured ribbing yourself, then feel free to throw the banhammer.

by TGEoA on Mar 7, 2011 3:04 pm • linkreport

Oboe, if you notice in my post, I responded specifically to your accusation that the "majority" of Gray supporters wanted Rhee's policies overturned. I included information I gathered from those I knew and even went so far as to "give you" IMPACT as a talking point against us (gray supporters). You couldn't collect your thoughts and organize a response. Instead, your relied on lies and distortions, the same tactics used during the election I thought we were beyond. Yet, here you go telling another lie.

I don't have to talk to "some" of the folk who had major problems with Impact. Why? Because I already know they exist and that this "some" you mention does not reflect what the "majority bloc" of Gray supporters' position. Yet, your attack is such.

And regarding your other lie and distortion, since when have you EVER seen Parker speak for what the "majority bloc" of what we wanted? Can you post that link too? Don't bother, I know you can't and there is nary an article, poll or otherwise that backs up what you have presented here.

I never went to a campaign event sponsored by the WTU. I never saw the WTU campaign. I never received campaign literature from the WTU. Yet, you keep this fallacy alive.

So what does that mean? You are purposely distorting the truth and the only reason I can think of is to keep the city divided. It's the tea party redux.

Obama was NOT born in Kenya and no amount of bloggery can change that.

by HogWash on Mar 7, 2011 3:40 pm • linkreport

@oboe, @Hogwash: Do you two really disagree or are you possibly misunderstanding without actually disagreeing?

I took oboe as saying that the WTU majority and those with similar views were a "major block" of Grey voters. And that HogWash is saying that they are not a majority. These two views seem compatible.

And aren't you both satisfied with Rhee leaving while Henderson stays?

by JimT on Mar 7, 2011 3:56 pm • linkreport

Guys, can we stop the chest thumping? I think this thread is getting way off topic....

by SJE on Mar 7, 2011 4:02 pm • linkreport

@HogWash:

What @JimT said.

And, yes, Henderson staying is a good sign. If she's willing to continue the policies Rhee pursued, I think it's great she's more "palatable" to DC's various interest groups. Though I think that sort of hyper-sensitivity is one of the major reasons DC has such a dysfunctional political environment. It's not enough that you find competent, committed individuals: they have to visit the right churches and take up hand-dancing, etc... Otherwise their "disdainful" attitude breeds a "toxic environment". (This goes not just for Rhee, but Fenty as well.)

Sometimes I wish our citizenry would just grow up a bit, and keep their eyes on the end zone.

by oboe on Mar 7, 2011 4:04 pm • linkreport

@HogWash:

Just to clarify: my point was that *you* may be a Gray voter who's perfectly happy to have Henderson replace Rhee. But your position is certainly not representative of many "education voters" who voted for Gray.

[Warning: WaPo Comments section link...]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/06/AR2011030603425_Comments.html

by oboe on Mar 7, 2011 4:13 pm • linkreport

@Jim, thanks but if Oboe "meant" that, he would have said it in his post. There really aren't many ways to read "Feeling quite a bit of schadenfraude this morning. Given that a major block of Gray supporters voted for him no the basis of rolling back the Rhee reforms of the last several years, this is a bit of a middle-finger at the folks who were hoping for a change of course.

Instead of attacking his position, I asked for simple clarification - that he did not provide. Instead, as you can see, he started talking about George Parker and the WTU. Whatever the case, he has totally misrepresented the facts and in layman terms, it's called a lie.

@SJE, the discussion is relevant to the post. It's one of the topics accompanying this article. I think it's healthy to challenge someone's misappropriation of the facts. At least I think so.

Oboe, Re: your recent clarification, thanks and I asked you this from the jump. In case my memory is faulty, I don't recall ever suggesting that my position is representative of "education voters." To be honest, I don't even know what that means because according to everything I've read, ALL of DC residents were "education voters." Some of whom voted for Fenty, the others were for Gray.

BTW, how is it that you can clarify your point that I may be "perfectly happy" with Henderson when I just said that I wish he had fired her but can deal with it. Let's not assume or speak for each other, you asked, I answered - and you went right back to doing that distortion thing again.

by HogWash on Mar 7, 2011 4:31 pm • linkreport

@HogWash:

I think you may be getting wrapped around the axle here. Just two quick things:

I think if you re-read JimT's post it will clarify: "[oboe said] that the WTU majority and those with similar views were a "major block" of Grey voters. [HogWash said] that they are not a majority. These two views seem compatible."

Secondly, I still say (and here, please note @HogWash, this has nothing to do with you personally) the WTU here is the big loser, given that--with the replacement of Packer by Saunders--the WTU leadership is now *more* radical before. And their large campaign contributions appear to have gotten them zilch.

Also, I'm pretty sure SJE was referring to the back-and-forth between David A and TGEoA, so that also was not about you.

by oboe on Mar 7, 2011 4:45 pm • linkreport

Oboe and Hogwash: I was referring to the discussion of issues becoming secondary to the sniping at each other.

by SJE on Mar 7, 2011 5:02 pm • linkreport

Thanks again. But don't you think it would have made sense to initially state that the "WTU is likely pissed at having supported Gray only to be slapped in the face with Henderson."

YOU made it about the rest of us when your (now) new position refers only to WTU and other education voters.

I don't think the WTU is a loser. They now have someone who seems to respect them as an organization and has footprints in the community. Both points were lacking in the previous hire. I haven't seen much to indicate a radicalization of the WTU. Besides, their contributions were given to oust Rhee, I never thought it was to undo everything. This election was Fenty's to lose and Rhee was in part responsible for his loss. Now that they're gone, I believe everyone else will be winners.

Fights will continue to happen. It's a democracy but IMO, we all won when they lost.

by HogWash on Mar 7, 2011 5:31 pm • linkreport

@SJE:

Ah, in that case, I disagree. I think I've kept it pretty on topic, and--at least by my standards--pretty anodyne. I'm not sure if you *can* discuss DCPS without ruffling any feathers.

by oboe on Mar 7, 2011 7:30 pm • linkreport

@TGEoA: I can definitely take some good-natured ribbing, but the problem is that there are a lot of people on the Internet who just like to be assholes and try to tear down other people for sport, and this is not a place for them.

I can't tell, yet, which you are. You post a lot of intelligent things sometimes, and I welcome that, and also like to have people with different ideas who try to argue them vigorously yet respectfully (exhibit 1: Lance). At the same time, sometimes you just seem to be a jerk who is trying to get a rise out of people.

This is a forum for serious and respectful discussions of issues, and it's important to me to keep it that way, because it's far too easy to get to a place where most people never want to comment since they know one of the resident shitheads is going to just try to find a way to tear them down.

So you have to decide which you are going to be and if you want to be one who we appreciate for their sometimes contrarian views, or one who, like Fritz, I'm constantly debating whether to ban because they seem to just like to be nasty to others and for some reason find it enjoyable.

My use of the quotes was not an attempt at sarcasm, it was a device used to designate that the word was specifically one which another speaker had used. You seem to be absolutely sure why I did what I did, but it doesn't match my own recollection of why I did that.

by David Alpert on Mar 7, 2011 10:51 pm • linkreport

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