Comments on Improve the Circulator, but raise the fare - Greater Greater Washington

Comment by kk

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 19:58:12 EDT

@ Turnip

Not so good if you are transferring Metrorail, Metrobus or from somewhere along the street.

Until recently the Navy Yard route didnt have any stops near Union Station besides in the garage which made it was a b***h to get to if you were not inside Union Station.

If I was on Mass Ave or North Capitol ST I use to be able to just walk over to the front of Union Station and catch the bus, then you had to go to the garage and then finally they added stops on North Capitol & Mass + Mass & 1st.

Even now it is hard to find the stops compared to when they were infront at Columbus Circle.

All buses Metro & Circulator should stop in the same area to aid in having better transfer points, not having people walk blocks or go to the top of buildings.

Comment by Shipsa01

Thu, 10 Mar 2011 10:05:11 EDT

Maggoe:

1. I assume is a joke since you're on this site, but I'll bite anyway: Capital Bikeshare.

2. Did you see the Circulator turn right onto Wisconsin or did it go straight? It was probably the Dupont-Rosslyn line.

Comment by Maggoe

Wed, 09 Mar 2011 23:17:33 EDT

1. What the heck is CaBi?
2. Did I see the circulator heading west into Georgeotwn on M St tonight? I thought the westward route was changed to K St awhile back. (I was not a fan of that change: K St is spooky at night)

Comment by Turnip

Wed, 09 Mar 2011 21:21:24 EDT

The Union Station Garage depot (terminal for both the Georgetown and Navy Yard routes) is wonderful when it's raining. You wait under a decent roof and you have an indoor transfer to Metro.

Note to moderator: I clicked the graph, but I got a message that I think means Silverlight wants me to use Microsoft Windows. So, Silverlight is evil.

Comment by m

Wed, 09 Mar 2011 11:17:01 EDT

Trading the N22 for the Circulator was a huge loss for near SE, given the terrible routing of the Circulator and its very limited hours. Assessing N22 ridership, as suggested by another commenter, would probably not be too helpful because during the last years of the N22 the near SE neighborhood was largely vacant. Since the end of the N22, there has been a huge increase in the near SE population (hundred + occupied townhomes, several fully-leased large apt buildings, a nearly fully-sold large coop and half sold large condo building), but I don't think that reality is reflected in the Circulator ridership numbers because the Circulator route doesn't run evenings and weekends, making it only useful to folks who commute along its route and folks who don't work standard hours. It is useless for the times it would most likely be used by neighborhood residents to connect up to social nodes on 8th and near Union Station.

Comment by eb

Wed, 09 Mar 2011 10:31:07 EDT

From a pure strategy POV, the DC government should start defunding WMATA commuter bus routes into the city and channeling the money into the in-city circulator routes which better link neighborhoods together.

Comment by kk

Wed, 09 Mar 2011 10:17:55 EDT

First thing should be done is move the Circulators out of the Union Station Garage or atleast reroute them so that they turn right and not left on H Street so that they could stop infront of Union Station.

Does anyone have info on the N22 Metrobus line how did its ridership compare to the current Circulator route. I have a feeling it is a combination of the route around the Capitol plus the number of stops compared to the N22.

They should be studying the 96, 30's, N22 Metrobus lines and perhaps re-adjust some of the circulator stops to the busiest stops along those routes which the Circulator passes. The N22 was a lot more convenient than the current Circulator and would rather have that back over what we have currently.

Why not start the Circulator at Eastern Market then normal route to Navy Yard and from there pass Waterfront then go up 7th Street and then on to Union Station and just avoid the Capitol all together then kill the 7/9th Street line.

Can someone please explain why do the Georgetown-Union Station & 7th-9th Street line have stops that are closer together than the other three; the 14th Street has less stops than any other route with the Navy Yard line following right behind.

Comment by Will

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 20:43:40 EDT

Redo the Navy Yard line completely.

Have it going from Navy Yard to the Florida Ave Market (best turn around point closest to the redline).

The majority of the route would be down 8th, allowing the bus to hit Barracks Row/EM, and H street. It would also provide H street with a frequent connection to Metro.

Comment by movement

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 19:49:59 EDT

As an aside, Alexandria needs the equivalent to the Circulator. There should be one bus line linking Old Town, Del Ray, and Potomac Yard.

Comment by thedofc

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 18:08:19 EDT

@ErikD
They do run. I use them most of the time I go to games (15 or so times a year), and they are usually an efficient trip to Union Station.

Comment by ErikD

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 17:10:20 EDT

Do the Circulator buses actually run a Nationals Game? The one time I've been to a game, I waited 30 minutes after the game, and never even saw a single Navy Yard bus, then walked home via the route all the way to Eastern Market and a bus never passed me. E-mailed First Transit, and they said they were "looking into it"

Comment by Ryan

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 16:49:30 EDT

@tour guide

I think you nailed the reason the Mall line is terrible. It does not service the Lincoln, Vietnam, Korean, or the FDR memorial. Taking the route across to Arlington and then back would increase ridership drastically, in my opinion.

Anyone else notice that the meeting is scheduled for the Thursday of St. Patrick's Day, and also for anyone else who watches college basketball, the opening day of the NCAA tournament. I do not want to speculate about what this might imply, but could it be possible that they would not want any of the younger crowd to stop by the forum?

Comment by Shipsa01

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 16:41:30 EDT

If they could expand the Navy Yard route to the Waterfront Station on the Southwest and H Street on the Northeast then you'll have a very useful and used bus route. But the current design just doesn't give it much of a chance to succeed. Connecting four up-and-coming neighborhoods together would be a huge boom for the Circulator service.

Comment by W Jordan

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 16:39:57 EDT

The AM/CH route cannibalizes other bus routes and is poorly designed as a Neighborhood Circulator. IT's no more than a Graham political payoff to some folks who don't want to ride the bus with the "others" and to bailout the failed 98 mini bus route that had a $0.25 fare. This route needs to be completely redesigned.

As a matter of fairness the fare should be raised.

Comment by beatbox

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 16:27:39 EDT

It needs to stay a dollar. As other have pointed out, there needs to be a simplicity to the payment.

The problem with the Navy Yard rt. is that I can walk from Union Station to Eastern market faster than the bus.

Interesting comment about a circulator identity crisis. May be something there.

Don't raise the price.

Comment by KG

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 16:13:15 EDT

It's possible that CaBi might become the main competition to the Circulator routes. It's too early to tell if many Circulator riders have been lost to CaBi but the Dashboard might start to tell a different story as the weather warms up.

An example: I found myself with a handful of purchases from DCUSA last night and needed to get home near 15th & P - about a 1 mile trip. I could have taken the 50s buses ($1.50, 10-15 minutes), the Circulator ($1, 5-8 minutes), or CaBi (~10 minutes and at $75 for the year its a better investment every time I take it - so we'll call it free for this comparison). Of course, the buses were a better option for carrying my unwieldy purchases, but I was willing to try the handy front rack on a CaBi.

I saw on my phone that next Circulator was about a 10-minute wait. I could have hopped the 52 heading my way, but I thought $1.50 was too steep for such a short ride. So I ended up walking to CaBi.

Last night, CaBi won for me, but there will be times when a $1 Circulator trip will win. The $1.50 Metrobus making all stops will never win for me on such a short route. Metrobus just works better for trips longer than I'm willing to bike. The Circulator is like the bicycle for people who don't feel like biking.

How about an annual pass for the Circulator. Once you've sunk the cost (like CaBi) it benefits you to use the system as much as possible. How about $150/year for a joint CaBi/Circulator pass?

Comment by guest

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:42:49 EDT

I think one reason the $1 fare on blue bus worked so well was that it did not accept SmarTrip.

Comment by nathaniel

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:37:25 EDT

Can anyone tell me why the Convention Center-SW route exists? If it does need to exist, can we cut about 2/3 of the number of stops it has though it least can serve some purpose as an express option for the 70 bus?

Comment by Jacques

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 15:05:02 EDT

As a regular morning commuter on the Georgetown-Union Station Circulator, I could easily absorb a $.25 (or possibly even $.50) increase without feeling any worse for the wear.

Why not create a peak fare increase (7-9 am, and 4-6 pm), to increase income from the commuter crowd, which is not likely to find a less expensive route, and therefore much less price-elastic. This goes especially for people like me who receive transit benefits from the office.

Comment by MLD

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:50:00 EDT

@EJ
So why is the circulator cheaper to operate than MetroBus? Is it the new vehicles? Or a different labor contract or something like that? Because if it's a systemic advantage, why not just extend the more efficient system over the less efficient one?

Circulator service is contracted out to First Transit. They pay their drivers less than WMATA, benefits are worse, etc. I'm not sure of the specifics but I believe their compensation is much lower than WMATA drivers.

Comment by Steve S.

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:48:38 EDT

Could the graph be a higher-resolution screen shot of the dashboard, rather than "require a more recent version of Silverlight"? Could Eleanor Holmes-Norton intercede to let the circulator bus go straight up first street NE/SE again?

Comment by Brandon

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:46:07 EDT

Doesn't the average circulator rider take shorter trips than the average Metrobus rider? If so, the cheaper fare makes sense.

At $1, I find the K street line sometimes convenient for getting from one end of downtown to the other. At $2, walking or taking my chances with the orange line become more attractive.

Comment by tour guide

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:45:31 EDT

The real problem with the Smithsonian route is that it doesn't go any further west than 17th street. The advent of the MLK Memorial opening in August, 2011 will increase demand as well. The closest spots will be 14th & Independence and 17th & Constitution. Both will leave the tourist with many ugly roads to cross. Try this: continue west on Independence to Lincoln, cross the Memorial bridge to service Arlington National Cemetery, then east on the Memorial Bridge with stops at Vietnam and WWII (Constitution & 18th) before resuming the current route at 17th and Constitution. Tourists would flock to affordable transit that actually took them to tourist destinations. BTW Keeping the Circulator out of the Jefferson & Madison Drives on the mall is a no brainer. Too much congestion. BTW2 Why stop the east bound journey at 4th street? Continue east to the Capitol on 1st street. Another tourist destination.

Comment by reader

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:40:47 EDT

Seems to me that the Circulator is having an identity crisis. If it's no longer for getting tourists to points of interest (my understanding of its original purpose), then it isn't clear exactly what the goal of the service is. If it lacks an underlying purpose, it seems to me that Circulator buses are purely about mobility based on existing demand (i.e., no longer driving demand, but responding to it) - and if so, they exist in competition with existing Metrobus lines (and as a corollary, price variance is a problem). But perhaps DC still wants to drive demand to specific points of interest in the urban core? If so, then subsidizing its use more than Metrobus is appropriate -- e.g., if we want to encourage travel to a BID like H St., then preferentially reducing the barriers to transit to that location makes sense.

My personal view on this is informed by Jarrett Walker's recent musings on branding of bus lines by color. DC has created a specific brand that has been very successful: Circulator buses are known to have a specific set of properties, including a) short headways; b) cheap fares; c) local service (in the sense of serving a small geographic area); and d) friendly drivers.

These characteristics seem to me to be opposed to many of the major metrobus routes (but by no means all of them), which often seem to have a) long headways/bunching problems; b) more cost, including for express; c) radial orientation/long trip distances; and d) actually also friendly drivers in my experience. However, a lot of more local lines -- the D lines, for example, as opposed to the 30s -- share more characteristics with Circulators than with long-haul routes (e.g. headway predictability).

It seems to me that a more thorough reconsideration of Circulator and its relationship with Metrobus is in order. If DC is going to run its own bus line, then perhaps certain Metrobus lines should be rebranded as Circulator routes, or otherwise differentiated from radial routes. The Local/Express metrobuses do this to some extent, but not in a complete way (many buses are unbranded, and it's hard to distinguish local and express without close examination) and without integration with Circulator or truly "local" routes (i.e., those routes that serve a small geographic area versus those that make many stops).

To make this system understandable, it would be nice to show clear differences among Metrobus lines either by assigning some existing lines Circulator status (perhaps with a second color to show headway, e.g. blue circulator=30min headway?) and to make those lines on par with Circulator cost-wise. Radial routes would stay with Metro.

Comment by EJ

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:36:09 EDT

So why is the circulator cheaper to operate than MetroBus? Is it the new vehicles? Or a different labor contract or something like that? Because if it's a systemic advantage, why not just extend the more efficient system over the less efficient one?

Comment by Ward 2

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:28:14 EDT

Circulator doesn't pick up at 14th and L. Our hypothetical Petworthian would have to walk a block south to save the $.50 on his trip to Columbia Heights.

Comment by se

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:26:38 EDT

The main problem with the Navy Yard route is the circuitous path it's required to take around the Capitol. This route was the N22 before it was the circulator and pre-9/11 went down 1st NE/SE. It briefly went down 2nd NE/SE until neighbors complained. It services a fair number of baseball fans in season, but an even greater number of workers around Union Station who either live in Capitol Hill or connect to the 30 buses to go further into SE. I'm not as familiar with riders in the opposite direction, but there are lots of workers around the Navy Yard who seem to use it also. Maybe when some of the abundant surface parking lots are no longer available, the Navy Yard circulator will see increased demand.

Comment by David Alpert

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:18:02 EDT

charlie: Transfers are part of why the revenue per passenger is not $1. If you go to the dashboard and click on Fare Media, you will see a breakdown of who is paying with cash, SmarTrip, passes, transfers, etc.

Comment by charlie

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:14:36 EDT

@Dave alpert; how do transfers fit into that?

Comment by David Alpert

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 14:06:50 EDT

aaa: It also goes to Barracks Row and the ballpark.

Albert: Yes, that's not the subsidy per rider, but the total cost. The subsidy is less. I've added the table I got with the numbers so you can see the rest of the numbers.

Comment by Albert

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 13:59:44 EDT

Does the cost per ride you cite include the fare? (ie. the CoHi circulator $3.28 per rider minus the $1 fare or is it $2.28 per rider and then DDOT gets $1 back from the fare?)

Comment by charlie

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 13:58:16 EDT

Yep, that's is exactly what I've been saying about elasticity for a while.

I saw the ridership increase on BB once they cut the fare. And it had nothing to do with publicity.

Estimates of elasticity are based on commuters -- who will pay a lot to get to work. Circulator is great because it for non-work.

Keep it at $1. Cut the mall and navy yard routes out, and just have the 14th street one go up and down 14th.

Comment by aaa

Tue, 08 Mar 2011 13:57:38 EDT

At last week's DDOT hearing, representatives of the area BIDs suggested that [that Navy Yard] route is hamstrung by very limited hours, an inconvenient pickup location in the Union Station garage, and a circuitous route through the Capitol complex

The Navy Yard route is hamstrung by there being nothing at the Navy Yard.