So, does that leave Tynan as the last local business in NoMA? I'm not particularly thrilled about Pound's abrupt closing. NoMA's turning into a clump of mediocre lunch-only places.

(That said, the owners of BicycleSPACE are crazy if they didn't think that somebody would eventually develop their single-story building, which is boxed in on all sides by high-rises. I guess it's a shame that it happened so soon...hope they can find a new home)

by andrew on Mar 15, 2011 9:41 am • link • report

I like food trucks, and I had taxes. But I still have a hard time arguing that they should get a special exemption. (Or for that matter that the t-shirt guys should be exempt, even though they should be subjected to a 10% obnoxious merchandise tax in addition to the 6% sales tax).

by ah on Mar 15, 2011 9:45 am • link • report

Interesting data point on the food vendor taxes -- street vendors near the mall aren't taxed either.

Isn't that the real market for food trucks? Imagine feeding the hordes of tourists with something more delicious than, well, the stuff they feed you. OK, I know. Most "tourists" on the mall are the worst kind -- budget and school groups.

But a man can dream, no? Hot chicks on bikes and gourmet food trucks as an introduction to 21st century living? Instead we get badly processed hotdogs and tour buses.

I'd suggest tiers of taxes. Lobster Truck, in particular, is abusing the tax privilege . Building a tier (say 10K a month) based on volume and price seems better than trying to force a collection system on a cash economy.

by charlie on Mar 15, 2011 9:45 am • link • report

Andrew:
There are still several local businesses in NoMa. Just counting the ones that sell food, there are Tynan, Five Guys, Cafe Phillips, Uptown Cafe, Constitution Cafe, Sunrise Cafe, and Goodies. But yeah, the dominant business format in the neighborhood is mediocre and lunch-only. Considering that Pound's landlord also drove out Heidi's, I'm sure we're dealing with some bad management issues, but for the most part it's probably just the recession that's keeping NoMa from blossoming.

by tom veil on Mar 15, 2011 9:54 am • link • report

re the vendor tax.

It was never appropriate and was simply giving away the keys to the city treasury.

The lobster truck...

Assuming they get 100 customers a day who spend 16 bucks a piece, thats $384K in gross revenue a year. Under normal circumstances, they would be paying $38K a year in DC sales tax. Now they pay a yearly $1,500 fee. This one truck is denying DC tens of thousands a brick and mortar would have to pay.

Yes, I know their case is extreme and they are easy to pick on but this NYC based business also illustrates the ridiculousness of them thinking that they shouldn't have to pay sales tax, when they don't pay any income tax either.

The evidence is anecdotal, but I could count on one hand the number of food trucks and street vendor vans/carts who had DC plates.

We aren't asking for them to be treaed differently, or more harshly than the brick and mortar competition, just the same.

by freely on Mar 15, 2011 9:55 am • link • report

The food truck tax question is strangely similar to the question about whether online retailers should charge sales tax: what is the actual purpose of a sales tax?

Is it a form of property tax? Is it a road use tax? Is it for other government services a vendor uses? Is it just something that should be tacked onto every exchange of money?

It's hard to pin down what it is exactly, because for everything you could say it is, there's an exemption already. Online retailers, for example, say that if they don't have a physical presence in a particular state, they shouldn't have to charge sales tax in that state. But they still benefit from government services in that state, like roads that allow them to ship items there.

by Tim on Mar 15, 2011 9:56 am • link • report

@Charlie - How is the lobster truck "abusing" the tax privilege? Many of the other trucks sell dishes that are $8 or $9, which is more than half the price of a lobster roll. Throw in soda and a side and the price gets even closer. And that assumes the sales volume is the same. Sauca has 3 trucks, so they could well have 3x the customers as the lobster truck, which means revenues could exceed those of the lobster truck.

by ah on Mar 15, 2011 10:04 am • link • report

@Tim

You as the consumer are supposed to forward the taxes due from online sales to your local government... though I'm not sure there is a single person alive who has ever actually done that.

by Adam L on Mar 15, 2011 10:04 am • link • report

@Tim - The online sales tax issue is governed by Supreme Court precedents on when a taxing jurisdiction has authority over an out-of-state company or person.

by ah on Mar 15, 2011 10:06 am • link • report

@Adam L - New York residents have done so after being caught having jewelery shipped to New Jersey for pickup.

by ah on Mar 15, 2011 10:07 am • link • report

@Tim; it is called "sales and use" tax for a reason. It is a horrible mess, really, and probably the best argument for a VAT.

@ah; 1 lobster roll + side and drink is even more expensive than a burrito+side+drink. Compare apples to apples. When you are selling $20 lunches my sympathy goes down. However, you are quite right about VOLUME.

(my personal answer is exempt all food sales under $10. Why do I have to pay a dollar in sales tax for cheap fast food?)

by charlie on Mar 15, 2011 10:10 am • link • report

@Tim: Most states also have a use tax, although few people pay it. If I'm driving to Maryland to purchase furniture, what has DC provided to me that it feels entitled to tax my out-of-state purchase?

The key question isn't about fairness re: the sales tax on vendors; it's about how will the DC Tax Office ensure the right amount of tax is being collected? In a mainly cash-only business, that's going to be nearly impossible.

by Fritz on Mar 15, 2011 10:10 am • link • report

I was under the impression that the annual fee was more of a payment in lieu of taxes, because the idea of calculating sales tax on each transaction was then a real pain.

Given that we have far more readily-accessible technology now, I would think there are more options.

Perhaps the fee can be assessed at different levels based on some assessment of gross receipts. This would better match the performance of a sales tax while hopefully still keeping the ease of use that the fee brings. Maybe you assess the fee quarterly or monthly instead of annually.

If you increase the fees to better match the sales tax, then perhaps you give trucks the option to just pay sales tax straight-up. I've seen trucks using iPads with credit card swipers. That kind of point-of-sale software should be sufficient to do those kinds of calculations.

Given the reliance on cash transactions, I'd imagine trucks would want to adjust their prices to account for tax (like many bars do) so that the out-of-pocket expense for a customer is still in nice, round numbers and readily paid for with bills or change.

by Alex B. on Mar 15, 2011 10:15 am • link • report

@AlexB; you notice than ipads don't give you a receipt, either?

by charlie on Mar 15, 2011 10:17 am • link • report

@Fritz - The trucks I've been to ring up sales on a register and give you a claim check. Sure, that's not all of them, but it's pretty easy both to keep track of sales that way and to audit the sales. I'll bet the problem is no greater than at bars and mom and pop food stores.

by ah on Mar 15, 2011 10:18 am • link • report

@charlie

No, I hadn't noticed that. I paid in cash, I just noted that the ipads were in use.

by Alex B. on Mar 15, 2011 10:19 am • link • report

@Fritz: If you purchase that furniture online and someone drives it from Maryland to your place in DC, what has DC provided you? If someone drives some furniture from Maryland to your place in DC, but the monetary transaction happens in DC, what has DC provided you? If someone drives some food from Maryland to DC and the monetary transaction in which you purchase said food happens in DC, what has DC provided you?

From your question to my first question, the only change was that someone else drove the furniture. From my first question to my second question, the only change was the physical location of the transaction. From my second to third, the only change was the product.

I'm not saying I have answers to these question. But our usual lines between which state, if any, gets sales tax revenue from a transaction, are actually pretty blurry. Now throw into the mix where a company is headquartered, where it has warehouses and the fact that someone could live in one state and have something shipped to work in another sate, and it gets even more complicated.

by Tim on Mar 15, 2011 10:23 am • link • report

@Tim, good points.

by HogWash on Mar 15, 2011 10:29 am • link • report

Based on the food truck tracker, there are something like 25 food trucks in DC.

Based on the Post article, there are an additional 1,100 street vendors operating in DC.

So while we're all focused on the new, yummy food trucks, the question remains of how the Tax Office - same tax office that missed $50 million being stolen by its own employees - will ensure the right amount of tax is being paid by those 1,100 street vendors, the majority of whom conduct business solely on an all-cash basis?

I just see the potential for widespread cheating/under-reporting by the vast hordes of hot dog vendors, while the bricks & mortar businesses want the city to focus mainly on the newer food trucks.

In my mind, it makes more sense to simply raise the $1,500 annual fee in lieu of sales tax and then index it to inflation. That's the only way the Tax Office will know that every vendor has paid the right amount of tax owed. Otherwise, the city will have a sales tax system on street vendors where everyone cheats.

by Fritz on Mar 15, 2011 10:32 am • link • report

"Good @Fritz'" proposal makes a lot of sense. One enhancement: I wonder if it would be possible to have a reduced first year fee (say $5k), then increase it from there. That way we avoid unnecessary barrier to entry, encourage healthy competition, and much needed food diversity.

Obviously, the tricky part would be to keep purveyors from opening and closing to avoid the increase.

by oboe on Mar 15, 2011 10:53 am • link • report

@Tim
Good points but misguided.
"If you purchase that furniture online and someone drives it from Maryland to your place in DC, what has DC provided you?"
Roads and Parking.

"If someone drives some furniture from Maryland to your place in DC, but the monetary transaction happens in DC, what has DC provided you?"
Roads and Parking and (though it's honestly a joke) protection of your money during transaction, i.e. police.

"If someone drives some food from Maryland to DC and the monetary transaction in which you purchase said food happens in DC, what has DC provided you?"
Same as before, Roads, Parking and Protection.

Gotta pay for that!

Besides, and this is just conjecture because I don't work near where the food trucks visit, don't they run their engines while they peddle? They ought to pay for that externality.

by David F-H on Mar 15, 2011 11:02 am • link • report

Wait...oboe is agreeing with me?!

Crap.

That must mean my proposal somehow benefits cyclists and creates new bike lanes....

I don't like the tiered system; I prefer a simple "here's how much you're paying each year" system. Keeps it simple for both the street vendors (many of whom aren't very proficient in English) and DC Tax Office (many of whom aren't very proficient in math).

by Fritz on Mar 15, 2011 11:34 am • link • report

Fritz

Oboe does not seem to care for bike lanes- or to be more specific- dedicated auto protected bike ways.

Oboe always tries to get me into an argument about bike ways - which I am in favor of & Oboe seems to ridicule quite often or sees as either impossible to implement or as impractical .

Oboe , it seems, is more of a vehicular cyclist.

by w on Mar 15, 2011 12:20 pm • link • report

of interest here-
..that altercation involving Guardian Angels in the Anacostia Station. Why is it that Metro does not have adequate transit police coverage? Just last week I saw 3 kids waltz right into Eastern Market Metro Station carrying food, eating it , and making loud noise. I was waiting for a friend and was near the kiosk- and I motioned to the attendant that these kids were doing some crazy $hit- so instead of giving chasing the kids- the guy comes up to me and , confronts me & asks me what the problem is. Immediately he takes on the tone that somehow I am to blame-it is none of my business- and that these kids can do what they want- especially since the Transit Police are never around. I felt like puching this jerk in the face. He was allowing people right and left to walk in & out of the emergency gate- and I thought that this was very odd and unusual. I was so taken aback that I just let it lie until my friend showed up. We split. Perhaps Metro needs to take a second look at the idiots they hire to "man" their kiosks- obviously this guy was letting people he knew walk in to the station for free and this was very remarkable.
Is Metro some kind of entitlement program for a chosen few? It seems to be the case.

I did not report this but if I do see it happen again I most certainly will

by w on Mar 15, 2011 12:29 pm • link • report

@Fritz,

Right, I suppose a two-tiered system to encourage startups, but recapture some of the revenue of successful enterprises would probably be too difficult to implement. Too bad, though, as the ease of entry is one of the core benefits of allowing street vendors.

by oboe on Mar 15, 2011 12:45 pm • link • report

@w: Don't wait until you see it again. Report it this time. Metro probably won't do anything about it, but if they build up enough complaints about that station attendant, they may eventually take action.

by Rob on Mar 15, 2011 12:48 pm • link • report

@Rob

Thanks for the encouragement- I will most certainly report this if I see it again. I was a bit shocked and taken aback by this cavalier mentality. This station attendant obviouslt saw me / had me pegged as some kind of do-gooder whitey type who always pisses and whines.

Sad but true. I am taken for a stranger / interloper/carpetbagger in the city of my birth by some one who is likely not even from here. I have run into this attitude among ghetto folks my whole life.

by w on Mar 15, 2011 12:59 pm • link • report

@ w: "Sad but true. I am taken for a stranger / interloper/carpetbagger in the city of my birth by some one who is likely not even from here. I have run into this attitude among ghetto folks my whole life."

I can't imagine why all wouldn't welcome you with open arms - perhaps because you think of/refer to some subset of DC residents as "ghetto folks."

by dcd on Mar 15, 2011 1:08 pm • link • report

@dcd: w's opinions aside, if WMATA kiosk operators are allowing people into Metrorail free, WITH food in hand, that's still an issue that needs to be addressed.

by Froggie on Mar 15, 2011 2:51 pm • link • report

@Froggie: No question about it. In my experience, station managers are either not at their assigned posts or chatting with friends or other Metro employees. If they do happen to be there, they typically ignore numerous infractions. If you do manage to engage one, you're met with anythign from indifference to outright surliness. I'm certainly not defending their laziness or competence (or lack or competence). And I have no trouble believing (in the abstract) w's recounting of his experience.

But - "ghetto folks?" Really? Comments like that are offensive and detract from whatever credibility the author has (and you can decide for yourself how much he started with).

by dcd on Mar 15, 2011 3:14 pm • link • report

@dcd:

I'm a native Washingtonian myself, and I too have been struck by the stand-offish attitude exhibited by the various perverts, jerk-whistles, and scumbags who have overrun my beloved city.

by oboe on Mar 15, 2011 3:17 pm • link • report

The new york times article requires a log-in. I took megabus to philly last week and nyc this week and was impressed by how organized they're able to keep things considering their coordinating buses to cities all over the place all while on the side walk basically. That said, with the two crashes I think it does show that there are plenty of shady operators but hopefully as the intercity buses become more popular the industry standards will rise across the board.

by Canaan on Mar 15, 2011 9:38 pm • link • report